How Do I Trust the Church if They’ve Mishandled Sin?

Well, hi there.

Happy Friday. I'm Bill Meyer, along with Pastor Adriel Sanchez, and this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day. You can call us right now with your question at 833-THE-CORE.

That's 1-833-843-2673. You can also post your question on one of our social media sites, and of course, you can always email us at questionsatcorechristianity.com. Well, first up today, here's an email from one of our listeners named Marcus. He says, if there is no condemnation in Christ, as it says in Romans 8-1, why is there a real danger of still going to hell, as it says in Matthew 7, 21-23? This concerns me and perplexes me.

Yeah. Well, first, let me just say, Matthew 7, verses 21 and following, those are verses that concern many believers, and I think for good reason, in one sense. We want to take Jesus' words seriously, and here are the warnings that we find in scripture.

Listen to what he says there. Matthew 7, verse 21, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you.

Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. This comes towards the end of Jesus' sermon on the mount. I've been preaching through the sermon on the mount recently, and one of the things that I'm seeing more and more is how the scribes and the Pharisees are really in the cross hairs here. As Jesus is preaching and exposing hypocrisy and highlighting the true interpretation of God's law, he's shedding light on areas where the religious leaders of the day had really gone astray and misinterpreted God's law, what God had revealed. And so here in particular, it's those religious hypocrites that Jesus is rebuking. When he says, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, you know, people who say they're calling on the name of God and they're doing quote unquote religious things externally and they're putting their confidence in that, but haven't truly received or embraced Jesus Christ by faith. I mean, he says to them in verse 23, I never knew you.

Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. Now that word no in the Bible is a word of intimacy. This speaks of personal relationship. Jesus isn't saying here that at one point these people were in him and there was no condemnation for them.

And then later on, they lost their salvation. He's saying, look, we never had a relationship. I've never known you.

I don't know who you are. Sure, you have this facade of religion and maybe even of a relationship with me, but you don't truly trust in me and you don't truly follow me. And so for those who are in Christ and in the passage you brought up was in Romans chapter eight, Paul there talking about in Romans chapters five through eight, you know, on the heels of his discussion about justification and talking about the spirit filled life and what it looks like to walk with God. He says, in Christ, those who are truly in Christ for them, there is no condemnation. That condemnation was exhausted at the cross.

And so we read that and I think that's a warning. We read Matthew chapter seven versus 21 following and that's a warning. It highlights the danger of hypocrisy, the danger of just giving lip service to God of nominal Christianity, we might say. But that doesn't contradict what Paul says in Romans chapter eight because the difference is the people in Romans chapter eight did know God and were known by Jesus and the people in Matthew chapter seven, to them Jesus says, I never knew you. And so we have two different groups here, religious hypocrites who have never had a relationship, a true relationship with Christ and those who trust in Christ, even though they battle with sin day by day.

And so that's how we make sense of this. And as you read the warnings in scripture, let them convict you, let them humble you, let them lead you to repentance if there's an area where you need to repent, if this is exposing some hypocrisy in you. But do what the religious leaders that Jesus is rebuking in Matthew chapter seven didn't do, and that's fall at the feet of Jesus and trust in him for the forgiveness of your sins. God bless.

So well said. Thanks for that, Adriel. You're listening to Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. Our phone lines are open. If you have a question about the Bible, the Christian life doctrine, theology, we'd love to hear from you.

Now, maybe you just stumbled on this program and you consider yourself to be an agnostic or an atheist and you don't buy all this Christianity stuff. Hey, we'd be happy to entertain your questions as well. Here's the phone number, 833-THECORE. That's 1-833-843-2673.

You can also leave a voicemail at that number. And here's a voicemail from one of our listeners named Dave. My question is, if God is spirit and the Holy Spirit is spirit, is there a difference in the essence of these two persons of the Trinity?

Thanks. Hey, Dave, thank you for that question. The answer is no, there isn't a difference with regard to essence. I mean, this is what we say when we confess the doctrine of the Trinity. We distinguish between the persons of the Holy Trinity, but they're one in essence and undivided.

Consubstantial, that's the technical theological word of the same substance, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And God, as you said, I mean, this is what the Bible teaches in places like John 4, where Jesus said, God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. But the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Holy Trinity is distinguished from the Father and the Son, and that he proceeds from the Father and the Son. He's the Lord and giver of life, the agent, we might say, of our sanctification and growth in grace, but he is one with the Father and the Son.

And the deity of the Holy Spirit is something, a lot of people wonder, I see passages for the deity of Jesus Christ, and I think I could defend the deity of Jesus Christ from scripture, but what about passages that highlight the deity of the Holy Spirit? Well, just consider the fact that the apostle Paul said, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Well, who dwells in the temple?

It's God himself. For Paul to say that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit is to say that the Holy Spirit who resides in us is God himself. And this is one example, one passage that you can go to, but there really are so many.

And so, no, we're not talking about a difference with regard to essence, even though we do distinguish between the persons. Thanks, Dave, for your question. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. We'd love to hear from you if you have a question about the Bible or the Christian life.

Perhaps there's a Bible passage that's always kind of confused you and you need some clarification on that. Give us a call right now. Our phone lines will be open for the next 15 minutes or so at 833-THE-CORE.

That's 1-833-843-2673. Got this email from one of our listeners named Stephanie. And by the way, you can email us your question at questionsatcorechristianity.com. Stephanie says, I've been praying for my ex-boyfriend's salvation and for God to restore a relationship between us after he broke up with me a year ago. He's told me before that he has trouble with faith, but I think he is with someone else now.

We were together for over a decade. Recently, he's been on my heart and I've been thinking about him a lot. I don't want him to not have hope apart from God. And I've been praying every day, but it seems I don't see any results. Does that mean that God is saying no or to wait or to stop praying? How do I discern what God is saying about this? Well, Stephanie, I don't think that that means that God is saying to you, you need to stop praying for him.

I think there are a couple of things here. First, we ought to pray for all people. And God, it seems like maybe in his providence has laid this man on your heart. As someone who's in need of grace, obviously you have care and affection for him.

You want to see him know and love Jesus. And if God has placed that in your heart, then I would say pray, continue to pray as long as that's there, that the Lord would open his heart and do a great work. We have to remember that in the Bible, the Bible is full of stories of people who seemed so hardhearted against the Lord and came to faith. And it was through the prayers of the people of God. You think of Paul the apostle, for example. He's there when there's a believer being martyred, killed, stoned to death, and he's helping with the martyrdom. And while there, this believer is praying, praying for him. Stephen is praying for him and saying, Lord, don't count this sin against them.

And as a result, I think through the prayers of God's people, he comes to faith and he becomes one of the most influential Christians to ever live, writing a great portion of the New Testament. And so we have hope that even the hardest hearts can be softened through the prayers of God's people and God can use your prayers. So I would encourage you to continue to pray for him. Now, that doesn't mean that God is necessarily going to restore the relationship. And it doesn't mean that this is the right person for you. I mean, if he's not a Christian, we're called as believers to pursue relationships with those who are in Christ.

And so I don't think that you should hold on to that desire right now and maybe put your hope in that. I think you focus on the fact that, hey, here's someone who needs the Lord and God has placed this individual on my heart. And so I'm going to continue to pray until maybe that desire is not there anymore.

And in God's providence, maybe he leads me to pray for someone else, but I would say continue to pray and the Lord hears your prayers. You know, Adriel, we've often talked about this whole idea of we call it missionary dating, where a Christian dates a non-Christian hoping and praying that they will come to faith, that they will, you know, well, if I can get him to go to church with me, maybe they'll accept Christ. And unfortunately, a lot of times it doesn't work out that way and sometimes ends up taking the believer astray. Yeah.

So this is wisdom. Because we're called to marry in the Lord, we should pursue relationships with those who are in Christ. I mean, the most important thing about the person we're going to be with is do they have a relationship with Jesus Christ too?

Are we united on the most important thing? And so we do oftentimes, and we get a lot of questions about this on the broadcast, but we do encourage people in line with God's word, you know, if you're looking to be with someone to pursue those who are in Christ. And, you know, I brought up the stoning of Stephen in Acts chapter 7, the end of Acts chapter 7, and that prayer that he prayed for the Apostle Paul, he falls down on his knees and says, Lord, receive my spirit. And falling to his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them.

And when he had said this, he fell asleep. And again, the Apostle Paul or Saul of Tarsus was there as Stephen was praying. What an encouragement for us to pray, to pray that the Lord would save and redeem even those who persecute us and mock us and mock our faith. God is able. So don't stop praying.

Good counsel. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. We'd love to hear from you if you have a question about the Bible, the Christian life, doctrine, theology, maybe something going on at your church that you're concerned about. Here's the phone number. It's 833-THE-CORE.

That's 1-833-843-2673. I also want to tell you about some great Bible studies that we have available. We had a question earlier, email question that dealt with the Book of Romans in Romans 8-1, just such a powerful verse.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And we have the Romans Bible study available for you right now. Yeah, get a hold of this resource over at corechristianity.com.

It's yours for a gift of $15 or more. And the Romans Bible study in particular is just an excellent, excellent Bible study. We get so many questions about the Book of Romans. And at the heart of the Book of Romans is that great doctrine of justification. One of the doctrines, the doctrine that was sort of the tip of the spear for the Protestant Reformation is so important. And so we'd love for you to get a hold of this resource.

I know it'll bless you. It's a 10-week study that you could go through on your own or with other believers in your church. You can find all of our Bible studies by going to corechristianity.com forward slash radio, again corechristianity.com forward slash radio, both on the Old Testament and the New Testament books. Boy, we've got some great studies.

Check those out for your personal use or for small group or Sunday school this fall. Love to have you get one of those studies real soon. Well, we'd love to hear from you if you got a question for us.

833 the core is the number. Let's go to Carlos calling in from Missouri. Carlos, what's your question for Adriel? Yes. Hello. Hey, Carlos. Hello. Yes, yes. Hello.

Good afternoon. Listen, I'd like to know if a church has a practicing lesbian in the choir. I'd like your opinion on that.

Hey, Carlos, thank you for that question. If a church has a practicing lesbian in the choir, what does that mean? Well, one thing I would say is that it means that the church is not taking sin seriously. When it comes to serving in the church, first, let me just say the church, the doors of the church should be open to anyone to come and hear the gospel. That doesn't mean that just anybody can be a member of the church. In order to join the church to be a member of the church, we follow Jesus. We submit to his word. We receive holy baptism. We purpose to live as becomes the followers of Jesus Christ, but we invite anyone to come and hear the truth of the gospel because it's for everyone. It's for sinners, every single kind of sinner, but that doesn't mean that everyone is just entitled to the sacraments of grace, to the means of grace.

We have to be careful there. Paul actually, Carlos, highlights an issue in one of the New Testament churches, the church in Corinth, where the church had individuals who were living in sin practicing sexual immorality, and nobody did anything about it. Paul, when he writes to this church, he addresses this very issue. He says in 1 Corinthians 5, verse 1, it is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife, and you are arrogant. Ought you not rather to mourn?

Let him who has done this be removed from among you. Then he says, for though absent in the body, I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. He says, look, when people are living in open sin, and the church is just sort of like, yeah, whatever, let them serve in the choir or in the nursery or whatever. Paul says, shouldn't you rather mourn? Don't you see how sin destroys us, how a little leaven leavens the whole life?

That's what he goes on to say in verse six. Discipline, church discipline is one of the marks of the church taking sin seriously. There's a real issue when churches are not willing to address sin, open sin within the congregation, there's a real failure, there's a real issue there.

I take issue with that. Now, of course, I don't know, Carlos, your church and all of the details, all of the circumstances, but I would say if someone is living in open sin, rejecting the word of God, and the church is not exercising discipline, the church is just saying, yeah, okay, whatever, and they're not addressing the issue, that is a fundamental problem and it'd be worth talking to the leadership of your church about that. And I say all of that, Carlos, also, not to focus on that one sin in particular, it could be any sin.

It doesn't have to be this person was a lesbian, it could be greed, it could be drunkenness, it could be other kinds of sexual immorality like Paul addresses there in First Corinthians chapter five. The point is that we have to take sin seriously within the church and that we do that with humility as well, recognizing that we ourselves are sinners, redeemed by the grace of God, desperately in need of his mercy day by day, but that doesn't mean that we overlook sin and open rebellion. And so may God give you grace and may God give your church wisdom and may God lead this individual into a relationship with Christ, a true knowledge of Christ that results in repentance from sin. Thank you for reaching out to us. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. We have another question that kind of ties in with that last one.

This is a voicemail that came in from one of our listeners earlier this week. A little over, I guess a year and a half ago, one of our elders had some affection with one of the young ladies at church that I actually was discipling at the time. And I had brought it to the pastors and they didn't call it sin, but they said that what his behavior was, was definitely unwise. Well, fast forward to recently with another young lady and affection with her as well, it was brought to their attention and they called this one another unwise situation. And I'm just trying to reconcile that as far as trusting my leaders, because how many unwise situations can you have with elders of the church?

I would love to hear your feedback on that. Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you for your question and for showing concern for the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Elders should not be unwise men who get caught up in these kinds of situations. And it seems like there's a pattern here.

And so I get why you're concerned and I get why you're feeling like, man, can I trust these? It seems like there's a lack of wisdom here. Of course, there are instances where, not instances like this, but there are other instances where we extend grace to each other. We recognize these issues are complex. We're trying to understand and do things according to God's word, but then this sounds like a more clear cut case. And so if there is a pattern of making poor decisions or putting people in leadership who are making poor decisions themselves, and especially with something like this, with male, female relationships, or even praying on younger members of the church, that's something that the church needs to take really seriously. Sometimes in churches, this is a horrible thing, but sometimes depending on who's on the elder board and their position in the church or their family, people want to walk on eggshells about this. But the reality is we have to take this very seriously because Paul gives us qualifications for elders in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus chapter 1. Elders are called to be above reproach.

And it sounds like that's not happening here. And so it's something that certainly needs to be addressed. And I would encourage you to continue to pray about this, to continue to have conversations with the leadership of the church about this. But there are times, there are instances where it's clear that church leadership is not taking the responsibility that it needs to take. And I think, again, especially when we're talking about male, female relationships and elders who are in a position of power using their authority to sort of get in close with other members, with other female members of the church, that raises a ton of red flags. And if the leadership of your church doesn't see that, doesn't recognize that, then yeah. I mean, at some point you have to say, okay, this is way out of whack and things are so disordered here that I don't know. I mean, and it's not anything that you did wrong. It's something that's being communicated by the leadership. And again, I hesitate to render judgments from where I sit.

I don't know all of the details of the situation. I want to give, I want to give people, I want to trust them. I want to give people the judgment of charity. But at the same time, I know that this is an area where so many churches have fallen short. And so sister, may God bless you.

May God fill you with wisdom. May God give your elders courage and wisdom to address these issues. And especially elders are called to protect and shepherd the flock of God. And so when the opposite is happening, when you're getting these sort of weird relationships with the elders, then there's a real issue.

And it's worth considering if it's not being addressed, it's worth asking the question, is this really where we should be? Is this where I want to entrust my soul to the leadership? Because that's what we do when we join a church. In one sense, we're saying, okay, you're accountable for my soul to lead me in the truth of God's word, to watch over my soul. That's what the Bible teaches.

And if leadership is instead praying on the flock or not protecting the flock, then there are serious problems. May again, God be with you and grant you wisdom. And I hope that there's a good resolution to this situation.

Just a follow up question for you, Adriel. Let's say you have a younger elder who is single. Maybe he's 25 years old and he's dating someone who's 21 in the congregation. Do you see that as a problem?

Well, I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. I would say when you get really young elders, there's a lot of other questions that could come up there in terms of qualifications and testing and time and just the wisdom of the entire situation. So I would see a difference between an elder who's certainly married and having these sort of affectionate relationships with other women in the church. I think that's a huge, huge issue.

And I'm not entirely sure again with that call that we got what all the details were, but definitely enough there for us to be concerned, for there to be concerned. And I'm glad that my sister raised this question with the leadership of her church. And I hope that all Christians feel the freedom to be able to do that, to go to their elders or their pastor and to have these kinds of conversations for our mutual encouragement and benefit. May the Lord bless you all. Thanks for listening to CORE Christianity. To request your copy of today's special offer, visit us at corechristianity.com and click on offers in the menu bar or call us at 1-833-843-2673. That's 833, the CORE. When you contact us, please let us know how you've been encouraged by this program and be sure to join us next time as we explore the truth of God's word together.