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October 28, 2021 2:00 am
On this broadcast, Skip's wife, Lenya Heitzig, joins Chip Lusko for a conversation about the victories and challenges she has faced as a pastor's wife, author, Bible teacher, and founder of Reload Love.
This teaching is from the series Topical Teachings.Links:
This week's DevoMail: https://connnectwithskip.com/devomail
Today we continue visually on connect with Skip an open studio guest's name HiTec will talk about the challenges of being a pastor's kid's take on the state of Christian music and his thoughts on the trend of deconstruction by younger Christian seems like today people are no longer just post Christian faith. They become very very hard. It's supporters destructive and damaging debate. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that we need your Bibles. It is just ridiculous.
It's ridiculous trend and it's really sad now. Let's join Nate Heights against procedures which must go on vision motivate program grade to be on good to have you here. I was thinking on the way over your one of the few humans on earth for your entire life experience includes Calvary about yeah and I think that's probably the case for a lot of PK's lease. Those who choose to go to ministry afterwards but it's very true.
My entire life and ethos is Calvary church New Mexico.
I was the first baby dedicated in our current building were still in that building. So I've literally been years and I was born pretty crazy.
It's really a matter of privilege but also challenger yeah definitely I think it's always unique. Stepping into a role that people expect you to look or act like your parents and trying to find your own identity and who you are and operate within your gifting's and this is an exclusive just to the church.
This is, I would say any any business where a son or daughter is stepping into the shoes or the place their parent has built you have these unique pressures that that that I think no one else has, but also unique privilege of carrying on and stewarding the legacy I got asked what your first memory of being here at the cow all man I was thinking about that question. You know I don't have. Some people can remember it like being in their crib and they can remember all the specific memories from being a very young child I can't remember those I don't have any specific memories of that I could tell you a date of this happened but I have fond memories. I was thinking the other day were planning our annual fall Fest that used to be called hallelujah Festival and it was our alternate the whole week. This was the era when trick-or-treating was evil, and if you trick-or-treat did, you'd probably get possessed by a demon pleased as we were all led to believe, but I have fond fond memories of being a kid and being in the campus and being inside the various rooms in the kids ministry and doing pie walks in and doing games and winning prizes.
I have a very specific memory of being a young kid and they set up almost like a putt putt or an arcade. They set up a prize booth that always surprises from small to large hanging on the wall.
Someone counters and if you want enough tickets at the games, a holy effects. We could come in and you could get one of these prizes from the hall of the festival arcade area and I remember I really wanted an inflatable electric guitar that an inflatable electric guitar and I got enough tickets and I got my inflatable electric guitar and I was so pumped like a week straight until it popped. That's probably one of my earlier memories of fond memories of my duty as mentioned with the pagan invasion. Her showing over the third grade room.
Yes yes it was. It wasn't just it wasn't just Calvary was the satanic panic that was the era when Oprah was doing TV show that sort of masculine layout.
Let me there is thing about theirs and the razor blades in an apples and all the candies poisons out there was a great vehicle following in that era. Guilty as charged as my kids. I was moved to a more serious topic made recently we've commemorated the 20th anniversary of 9/11 so you are in that generation yeah what are your recollections and observations cow was 15 years old when 9/11 happened and and I was on my way to school with my dad. We lived in the east mounds of the time and he would drive me down to hope Christian school and I remember driving in the car and he got a call if my mom mom said a plane has hit the World Trade Center where we just left the house and he said oh my goodness. We we know what happened that when we hear one. One claim we think at first as an accident and then were driving my debts, as will keep me updated and then we hear there's another plane into the world trade sermon apples over on sale.
The Lord tables over on the dirt on the side of the stop and turn the news on and just sit there about 10 minutes.
15 minutes listening to what's happening. As more and more news is coming in on other planes or are hijacked. We realize it's an attack on American soil. This was so unique because this was the first attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor was the first time that we had been attacked by another country and who it was. It was the first time this is happened so it was my dad told me that own the cars that you remember this for the rest of your life. Just like I remember the day the John F. Kennedy was shot. Those words were me just I remember the exactly where was it when I heard that you have given charter member the state throughout your life is a great point made because your dad is a product of the Jesus movement yeah and you are product of a whole different worldview and how you see things. Yeah, it's interesting you know we talk a lot about generational differences.
I'm right on the cusp and actually there's some generation scientists or whatever you call them that that the talk about Gen X and then the millennial's business in between generation called the accent heels which is like the part Gen X part, millennial's, and so it it it is interesting though, how these different perspectives how you were raised, how you grew up alters the way that you view things and alters your perspective on on what's happening in the world and current events and were seeing a trend.I consider troubling where major Christian leaders are deconstructing the classic faith.
Yeah, it was interesting is that examine this trend of deconstructing it seems like it's a trend that's only in the younger generation of Christians and I really believe I agree it's incredibly troubling. It's very startling I think so much of it has to do in the culture of church that was created in the mid-90s to early 2000's. There is a culture discredited in the church. I think that has to do with it. I think parenting is a large part to do with it and I think the trend of not teaching the Bible but teaching messages that make people feel good as a huge part to do with that. I think those are three of the big trends that really contribute towards that but it really is very startling was very sad to see that these people with platforms are not only leaving the faith of their encouraging others to do the same, citing a friend the other day. It seems like the world that we knew in on the 90s.
There's a lot of anti-Christian rhetoric movement, but it seems like today people are no longer just post Christian. They are anti-Christian.
They don't just leave the faith they become very very ardent supporters of others leaving the faith they become ardent supporters of how destructive and damaging the faith was because of purity culture. I'm sorry that we let you get pregnant, get AIDS when you were in high school. I'm so sorry that we that we hurt you by telling you, you should remain pure because the Bible said that you should is just ridiculous. It's ridiculous trend and it's really really sad and alarming to see I'm really trying to wrap my mom made. This is not drifted.
This is totally defective. Yeah. And as you same guy Joshua Harris who was the poster child for the data. Just be pure and is is really totally pivoting map point and were seeing that in people.
The we discipled you, this Duchess is a question my faith there rejecting their entire room mindset yeah and I I will say this, I think it's really really really easy for an older generation to jump on the bandwagon and say look at what happens if younger generations their fault. Why are they leaving the faith. Why are they doing this what's happening but I think so much of it really is rooted in the systems and the culture that our previous generation created for us it's related in again. We just talk jokingly about Halloween and how we had a generation of people saying the following was so bad and then as we get older realize weight. Why is this bad, this really isn't bad.
And then all of a sudden we tweet we all will.
It's not bad anymore.
Then we had me take things like alcohol in the church for a long time. It was very very frowned upon entering our member growing up in a culture is that if you sipped if alcohol touched your lips you were going to hell me that was that was what it felt like it was what was said from the pulpit. It was what what was felt like and and we created these systems. I would really say systems of hypocrisy that then you have a younger generation sees this and is that I don't what's wrong should always be wrong what's right should always be right. What's right is never wrong and what's wrong is never right that's I think a biblical perspective as we take somatic abortion. Abortion is always wrong it's never there's never be a day and age when we as the church look that acceptance of this is okay this is right.
We take things like following more alcohol and be civil. This is wrong. This is wrong.
This is wrong and we realize later on we get older and read the Bible. This actually isn't wrong. It's not a sin in all this and we we had this paradigm for calling what's right wrong what's wrong right so we we we beat we get things swapped around a little bit and I think when you compound that with the parenting structure and style that raise a lot of these millennial's, and you take that combined with the technology age and era were all of a sudden all these kids are grown up with devices and social media and getting news rapidly.
There no longer getting news in connection from their friends when they show up to church from the radio they're getting news instantly from the perspective that fits their perspective and ideological political worldview that the only news they're getting this from people that agree with them because of the algorithms and you really create a structural to know part of fault of their own. These kids are really being led astray because of the structure that is been created around them in a sociopolitical concept and that kiss carried in the church as well. The same to think about this as I'm seeing people were 20 years your growing up in a Christian environment or the T-shirts went to Vic concerts and whatnot. Yeah. And now they're like totally is a not much scripting but dark. Yeah, you know, Shakespeare said we think thou doth protest too much and sometimes I think they're firing for effect Wanting chip. Think about this is nothing new. Part of this is rebellion. Your generation grew up with your parents very, very clean cut white picket fence.
Everything is the perfect American family, but inside there was abuse husbands were beating their wives husbands were alcoholics and drinking it in the second they got home until the moment they went to bed and so you have all of a sudden generation. Your generation comes out of that Suzuki my parents and Mary one person but their marriage was miserable. It was a farce and we paid the price being kids now working on the freelove hippie generation.
My parents said that lead to only have one spouse, live this way again. Hypocrisy is what they saw the younger generations is will we need to.
The answer to that.
That is freelove. We just need to build to go.
You know to to the desert, listen to music and do drugs and have sex with whoever we want to and that's what we need and so we pivoted to the full, opposite, and then we see after this event, generation, and then it kind it centers back to okay will that was a little extreme.
It we should have done that if we should be here now and I would need to put in more rules, more you know so you kind of hippie generation opposite parents are putting more rules in the Bible even has because they want to keep their kids from going out and doing drugs having sex all their lives, and then you have this now generations rebelling against that. So it's constantly this ping-pong pendulum, presidents, no one could do the job rights. We got the try one guys that exact opposite of the other value of one guy who talks really calmly and clearly but is really born in the next era like you know what I want somebody to drive 85 and go through stoplights and I just want to have a blast in Austin, how how we operate as human beings become to go back and forth. Let's talk about some of the distinction from the generations that were huge one is, is this right here the smart phone yeah that Dick didn't exist even when when you work it out. Yeah.
Coming-of-age yeah I mean Internet didn't really even exist. But when I remember when Internet first came out I was in like of junior high school I was in elementary school and our member AOL having to sit there for five minutes. Will you hear the iron and then all of a sudden welcome Dale, well, you've got mail that whole entire thing is the generation I grew up in, and again I find we all want to blame shift in this and I find the younger generation wants to always blame the boomers all with the boomers all Boomer Boomer and then the older generation was to blame the younger generation of the term is been thrown around for so long as millennial's and we ought we always want to blame millennial's a millennial's are people born between 1980, 1994. So realistically we look at this day and age, and a lot of the stuff that we don't like. It's really that the latter half of that millennial generation going to the Genji with the cold I Jen as I Jen are people born between 1995 and 2012, so this is your young 22 mid 20-year-old. That's you, this generation is this generation grew up with cell phones. They grew up with technology in their hands they grew up with the experience of what this social media generation world has been characterized as a generation.
We look at millennial's a lot of the terms are thrown out for millennial's is entitled narcissistic lazy self interested and so what happens is you have this Boomer generation that doesn't know how to handle this latter half of millennial/Jens EI Jen and so they asked the millennial generation will what you want.
There's always bronze what you want and the answers are always why want a job with purpose. I want to job makes a difference.
I want to make an impact and I want free food and I want nap pods at at my place of business in this commitment they they give this list of things but they're not happy.
They get those things that are still not happy and so there's something missing there and so this is where I say I think there's this big ball that's been dropped by your work. We need to steward this country and our world for the next generation and I don't think that we've stewarded it the right way. I think we've done things that we think will help they've actually been more destructive and so there's this missing piece, and I think it has to do with parenting.
The massive technologies is a before. I think it has to do with impatience on the part of the millennium. The younger generation, and I think it has to do a lot with environment and so there's a lot of things that are that are compounding here that that cause this this rift fall apart like we are going, don't you think it's possible not to have the chasm between generations of boomers I mean.
Ideally, each generation would learn from the last generation yeah and expand on that.
I'm not. I can't wait for the iPhone 13 to come out so you don't have to become dead in the water whenever your your sweet spot instant. Don't you believe that I agree but I just think the way that we need to do that is we need to to speak honestly and transparently about the pitfalls that the previous generation experience that I don't want to do that.
I don't think anyone wants to say this is where I've messed up.
This is where I failed doesn't want to talk about what when I was a kid, I had to walk 10 miles to school and I didn't have a cell phone they just want to harp on the next generation, rather than really I found steward the next generation and give the next generation. The tools they need to be successful and let the next generation know where they failed and how that might correspond to where this next-generation is failing at it, you know, I think that as we work through this idea.
There's a lot to be learned from the previous generations. We just need to be humble enough and we need to be real enough to talk about the successes and failures have to do with legacy and you have the Scripture talks about moving from glory to glory really is talking generation to generation in your prime example your standing on the shoulders of an extraordinary work that happened here and so you you have the opportunity to expand that now you know maybe the previous generation might be a little irritated by the fifth, but we should be encouraged by that.
That's the idea that hand baton and in the next generation goes further after. Definitely I think that so important and I think again this is so unique. Chip and I think it we see this through history as things change as technology goes forward negative impacts also come with it and we have to be very mindful to mitigate against those and I think a lot of overseeing with deconstruction is related to the problem of this millennial Jens E. The way in which they were raised in the course of their accreted success.
Maybe a couple for instances before we talk for the millennial generation is good, like the boomers, and even before that the greatest generation for that. So we have this huge breakdown we see now, today, in 2021 of the family know that that can be rooted not asserted that the air of the 60s but it can really be routed back even further to that to that to the founding of the automobile. So when you have the Great Depression and that happened in American society destructive terrible time. What it cost to happen just like 9/11, is it caused Americans to rally around each other. It caused society to become focus on what was important, rather than what was an important and all of a sudden you had men who were getting jobs working for 25 years sweeping the streets.
Why they were sweeping the streets they're doing this job, not because they felt called to the job because they felt felt called to their families.
They felt called to raising their families. Their purpose was found in their kids and their wife and so didn't matter what job they had to do because family was what was important then you have this rise of the automobile and you have people start commuting to work.
It used to be that to get to work. You would either take public transportation or you would we would live within walking distance of your works. You can get to work quickly and easily. What happened when the automobile started to explode and when this whole entire automobile craze started to come across America. You had people now living in the suburbs and they were commuting to work. What happened scientist found out that for every 10 minutes do you commute your 20% less likely to have a meaningful conversation with someone that day. So what happens is you people living 45 minutes from work they get up in the morning they kiss their wife, they get in the car they drive for 45 minutes they worked all day long, don't talk people in the office there just in their cubicle doing work to get back in their car drive 45 minutes home. They're not seen their neighbors because they're not shopping temperatures was that if cars they're not making friends with people there just living their lives in this car cubicle home and so becomes the cycle then what happens is when the family unit starts to break down the of the free love the 70s and 60s is all of a sudden now families. It is important was before.
So now people getting jobs nursing will what I feel called to do because I don't feel called to care for family because I don't want to family because I saw my parents family and I thought that was nice. I hope how much of a train wreck that cause so now I don't want anything to do with that.
So create this potential effects of the really great cars and incredibly mention Chris's pendulum were slowly goes down and then we see the negative effects in the breaking of the family. They can really be rooted. This breakdown of society and how something good led to something bad and I think we see this and in so many aspects of cell phones is one of the biggest ones today. What an incredible device. We talk about in church all the time dimension of Paul the apostle at this in his day and age. What IPX he counted terrified to know what happened.
If everyone had his in their day and age that would've been glued to their screen, they wouldn't have been as focused on the great commission what they were called to do.
Now some companies are using this for great purposes, but I would say the majority of people are just so sucked into these devices that it's causing more negative effects than it is positive effects very perceptive. So let's transfer to a area of your expertise and really are gifts that you have creative in worship music what your observations about the state of Christian worship music. That's a big question, and in some ways it's a loaded question again I think that the tendency of every generation is to remember the music that they latched onto and emotionally hit them, and always look to that is that was what music should have been so it's funny. I'm only 36 but I Artie have the music and I grew up and and I really got exposed to worship music that I related with in the late 90s, early 2000's. It was delirious and it was it was Chris Tomlin and David Crowder band before Dave got up it was David Crowder Ruth University Baptist Church and and it was this music that I really related to a grabbed onto and then and then music changes in an else on United comes on the scene and passion expands and and then you have now Hill so young and free and expands to more more more. I think that God gave us creativity and that creativity should be expressed in different ways based on how the generation responds to creative arts.
I think that's the beauty of it, and I think what related to somebody in the 1800s. The 1900s the 1950s and today is very very different. And I think it's the responsibility of worship leaders and of pastors to figure out what's happening in the culture and don't compromise the message but change the means in which the messages conveyed to reach a new generation that's hard to do, I find myself Artie get in that place with her big news on the comes on like what is this music, this is terrible. We need to put something in these songs again and it's always our tendency to want to do that because we each and every one of us at with with the arts, arts, music, food, these are things that they create a trigger in your brain that cause you to associate these arts with a specific memory in your life and so is nostalgia. We hear a certain song rely. I remember when I sing that song in church 20 years ago.
It was so good. It only makes me feel so good. What is this stupid music. The plane now and immediately it causes us at this adverse reaction. So I think it's really important that we recognize that, but I also think it's really important that we continue to write songs and create art that has depth and meaning, and if there's anything I see in this day and age is meet, we run the risk of wanting to have songs and music that doesn't have depth just has dazzled just has this. This provided you have the energy and that be okay, but what is it saying well, says God, just as I got is awesome God is awesome.net that's what it says but that's kind of the gist of a lot of the music that out there today. There are great bands are so ready music. One of things a little bit else on United almond Hills on as a church is they have on staff. They have a theologian who must approve every song lyric in the song before it goes out to get published. I don't know. They still do this, but, well, how did everything go And it's fantastic and it keeps their songs theologically rich and full and so you hear a lot of the even route recent else on worship songs, atomic hymns, there is beautiful is that song hundred million and I was cold but hundred million something just beautifully walks through this theological view of who God is, how he created the universe, how he loves each and every person how he died for their sins, and how each and every one of us needs to segment until the Lord returns more or less just beautifully theologically resolve because the young creative's are working in unison with the older stewards of the theology and doctrine help is that is made conversation with your flesh.
As we continue visually connect with skip. There was much more to talk posted the entire interview online connectwithskip.com join us next time when ship will be talking with Linda Heiser regular listeners to this program want to thank you for your support in the past few years. This teaching ministry has continued its growth trend. We want to do more grow more and reach more people with verse by verse Bible study. We invite you to help us do that during vision week. Please consider a one-time growth gift. It is easy to do either.
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