Welcome to Hope in the Morning. Turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope.
Welcome to Hope in the Morning. I'm your host, Emily Curtis, and this is... Robby Dale Warren. And we have the privilege today of sitting with one of my old college friends today, David Zimmer. He's one of the writers for the band Sovereign Grace, which is one of my favorite worship groups.
And actually, David, I have sung many of your songs and we've sung them at church. And I didn't even realize at first that you were one of the writers. So what a neat privilege to get to have you in the studio. So thank you for joining us today.
Oh, man, this is such a blast. Thank you for having me. It's good to see you again. Yeah, it's good to see you, too. So I'd love to kind of talk about what your journey has been like from college into music writing now.
Yeah, well, I'll keep it as brief as I can. I was at the Masters University where we met. And after I graduated, I married my wife, Julie. And I started pursuing a full time career in music as a freelancer, drummer, songwriter, artist. Part of my time in Christian music with a band called Enfield, we wrote eight records together. And I was serving in the college ministry at Grace Community Church with Julie MacArthur. So I was there for 15 years. And then I was also a freelance touring drummer on the secular side. I was playing a lot of music with different artists.
That was wonderful. That was my job. I felt like that was my mission field. I did that.
Yeah. For about 18 years. And it took me around the world. It was wonderful. When we started having kids, we had my son first.
We had my daughter more challenging to her and travel. So I was happy to stay home and try to find a creative outlet for what I believe God was calling me to. And through all of that, God moved us out of California to Louisville, Kentucky. We would have never thought we would be in Louisville, Kentucky. But we absolutely love it.
It's it's wonderful. We we actually moved here for this church. We wanted to be connected to this church, which is Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville.
OK. And Sovereign Grace music is attached to Sovereign Grace churches. Churches, we used to write and serve our churches, songs for our churches. So I came on staff.
I moved here about five years ago, but I came on staff full time about three years. So did you did you realize for a long time that you had the talent to write music? Because I was sharing with those of us that are here in the studio that, you know, we were talking about what instruments you play. And I remember you being a singer.
You play guitar. I remember you being a phenomenal drummer. But I never knew that you were a songwriter.
Mm hmm. I thank you. I have been writing songs since I was young. And I think to become a decent songwriter, you have to write hundreds of hundreds of songs. So I've been writing bad songs for a really long time. I love that.
Which is how you get better. Yeah. So I just recently have been writing more congregationally focused songs. OK. Yeah.
And the last probably seven or eight years. Do you do a lot of those songs like are they born out of your time in the word? Are they born out of different circumstances you found yourself in or a combination thereof? Oh, man.
All the above. So I was writing a lot on my own. Just, you know, my own perspective. But over the years, that has shifted a lot where I have been doing a lot more collaborative writing, which I love. It makes me stronger. It makes me a stronger writer. I'm able to collaborate with people that do, you know, things better than I do. So I like to for the last probably seven years, I've been writing primarily with one of my best friends, which his name is Nate Stiff. OK. And so if you see my name, you'll see his name right right next door. OK. We we had been writing together every Tuesday for the last five years.
Wow. And so what happens in those writing sessions is it's 80 percent of us just messing around. And, you know, sharing life with each other, praying, just talking about what we're learning and mostly like cracking jokes and dorking around. But in that 20 percent, I think we'll talk about a lot of what are you wrestling with?
What are you struggling with? What are you reading? So it's coming from our time in the word. It's also coming from what we're reading outside of the word. And a lot of it is coming from like the sermons we're sitting under.
So it's like now he moved to Louisville about three years ago. And so we get to sit under the same sermons together, which is great. And there are many times where after the sermon, we talk and go like, wow, we need a song that says what he is saying.
Yeah. It's so interesting because sometimes I will listen to music and I'll think, especially with some of the artists that have more like poetic lyrics. I'll think to myself, I wonder if they got that from a sermon.
I wonder if they were sitting there thinking, I need to write a song about this. And I know sometimes that's how my poetry is born. I've actually sent our pastor sometimes after his sermon on Sundays. I'll go home and just write, write, write, write, write, and send it to him and say, this poem was inspired by the message that you just spoke this morning. I think that's such a neat thing because you're taking the truth of God's word and the things that you are learning and you're internalizing them.
And then you are putting that out in a different form to the world. You know, what's really cool about that from my perspective is I'm a big, huge John Eldredge fan. And one time I heard him talk about when he writes a book, like Wild and Hard or whatever, that he first, before he writes the book, has to have a song. And that song, he plays that song over and over again to sort of become the theme of how God is speaking to his heart through that particular time. And when he said that, I immediately related to the fact that whenever I do a radio show, and I do the Christian Car Guy radio show is the main one I do, long before I heard that from John Eldredge, I know that I have to have the music before I can ever really put together the theme. And then when I became a pastor, it's the same thing that I want the music playing in my heart almost before I can come. It's fascinating that that works the other way too.
Yeah, it is cool. I was just reading a story the other day. I can't remember exactly what the passages in scripture, you might know this, Robby. But it's where, I'm trying to think what his name is. It's one of those big, long names.
It starts with a J. Jehoshaphat, I think is his name. Anyway, he was going into battle, and the Lord had kind of surrounded him. And they were afraid because they thought there's no way that we can win this fight. And God instructed him in something that just seems so odd, which is we want you to put the musicians and the worshippers in the front line. Well, those of us that were music majors, we know we're not the toughest in the bunch, right? So not necessarily who you would send on the front lines of battle, right? We're going to harp you to death.
We don't know. We're not the fighters. We're the lovers, not the fighters. But it was so neat to me to think through the fact that the Lord takes offerings of praise and that he can do great things to battle things, even battle things of the heart through a heart of praise and worship. And oftentimes, you know, we start out our church services usually with music, because it sets the tone for our heart to receive the message that then our pastors will impart to us. What have been some of your favorite lyrics that you would say have kind of been born out of a season where that maybe allowed you to express what was going on in your own heart?
Oh, wow. There are so many lyrics that come to mind that are so intimately tied to what I'm going through, what is happening in our lives. It's so funny you ask that and then all the lyrics escape me. Well, I have a couple of your lyrics in front of me. Could I read you a couple and you kind of tell me where that lyric was born from?
Absolutely. OK, so one of the songs is called Run to Jesus. And it says, Has your grief brought you low? Has your faith lost its hold? Your deliverer knows what your need is.
He endured every test. He has felt your distress. As you weep, he has wept.
Run to Jesus. What good news. Yeah. Yeah.
Born born out of Hebrews 4, 14 through 16. You know, since we we have a great high priest who's able to sympathize with our weakness. Just trying to find a way to say when we walk into a Sunday gathering, it's not always, oh, it's been a great week.
Everything's good. Yeah. We're walking in with our doubts, our fears.
We're walking in with our sin. Yeah. And, you know, the the grief line as your grief brought you low.
It's like we both Nate and I were trying to say, like, when that happens, you have to look somewhere. You either look at the grief and you're tempted to believe this is forever. Yeah.
This is going to be forever. But what the gospel is saying and what Christ is, his extension to us in Hebrews 4 is saying, look, I'm not unable to sympathize with your weaknesses. The man of sorrows.
Right. He bore our griefs. So what we want to do is turn our perspective from our grief, from our situation. And he will lift your head. He will be your rest. And so that's a perception shifter kind of song we were trying to write.
I love that. And we have to go to a break here in just a moment. But when we come back, I would love to talk about even just the next stanza of that. And this, you know, this won't be the only song that we focus on of yours.
But with, you know, at the time of this recording, we're looking to Easter being being this weekend. And the next stanza that you have in this particular song just brings to light what you're saying, like why we have that hope when our grief has brought us low. So stay with us and we'll be right back with Hope in the Morning. Have you ever walked through the deep suffering of a friend and been at a loss for what to say?
How can you comfort someone when they've just lost a loved one or been diagnosed with cancer? Join us on Hope in the Morning to hear testimonies of people who've gone through life's hardest trials and share what you can do to serve others in similar circumstances. To learn more, visit us at HopeInTheMorning.org. Hope in the Morning is a listener-sponsored program that encourages the weary, equips those who walk beside them, and evangelizes the lost. If you want to partner with this ministry, visit HopeInTheMorning.org. And may you be filled with hope as you continue this episode of Hope in the Morning.
Welcome back to Hope in the Morning. We're talking with David Zimmer, who is one of the writers and band members of Sovereign Grace Music. And we're talking through, right now we're talking through one of his songs called Run to Jesus.
And we already talked through the first stanza and the second stanza. You write, Is your shame all you see? Are your sins dark and deep? Your high priest lives to plead your forgiveness. What you owed he has paid. What was dead he has raised. All your guilt for his grace.
Run to Jesus. I think that's so beautifully written, David, especially as I was saying at the time of this recording, we're right around the corner from Easter and talking about the hope that we have, how he has made all things new because he resurrected. He had power over death and power over our sin. Can you walk us through those lyrics a little bit?
Yeah, definitely. Those, again, were taken from Hebrews 4, 14. And the sort of the second half of that, which says, you know, in every respect he's been tempted as we are, yet without sin. And then so let us then draw near with confidence, right, to the throne of grace. Wanting to put into a song that we sing congregationally, Is your shame all you see, is unique because we tend to, in our circles, show up to church just trying to look good, just not trying to be honest about our sin, about our shame. But if we truly believe the gospel, if we truly believe that Christ bore our sin, our shame, as we're going into, you know, we had Good Friday last night, and conquered all of those, then we can in confidence say, this is where I sin, this is where I struggle, and this is where the gospel can give me hope.
Yeah. I think that's so wonderful what you're saying, especially in the setting of church, because, you know, I know that I've told my husband before that sometimes, especially, you know, especially in certain circles, in certain Christian circles, in certain churches, you can feel this pressure, as I put it, to show up sanctified. And that's not our journey. You know, it's like there's so much more that we can glean as believers from one another when we show up vulnerable, and when we show up in humility. Well, that's fascinating because, you know, tomorrow is Easter, and where God took me this week to preach on is the potter's field. And God showed me that, fascinatingly, the word potter in Hebrew is the word that God used to tell Moses that when he made man, he formed him from the dust of the ground.
Well, that word formed in Hebrew is potter. And so, fascinatingly, you know, you can picture he's making Adam, and he's taking this mud, and he's got him on a wheel, and away he goes. Well, here it is, and I just related to Judas. Like, I never have before. Like, I kiss Jesus all the time and then turn around and betray him.
I mean, it's unbelievable how often we do that. However, I never saw the beauty of that blood money that was slave money being turned into this field that would be, through Jeremiah, the hope of Israel. In other words, that this is going to all be made back into, you know, what God had in mind from the most horrible thing you could possibly see.
And as you were saying all that, I was like, oh man, this is so rich. Yeah. Well, he redeems things. You know, that's what he does. But I love how the sovereign grace songs, you know, when we sing those at church, it really does lift your heart to worship. A big part of that is because it reminds us who we are before the Lord. And not that we've somehow arrived in our spiritual journey, but that the Lord is gracious with us. He's patient. You know, I mean, I'm not that patient of a person. I wish I was more patient.
I'm not that patient. The Lord is endlessly patient with us. And when we come before him with a right view of ourselves, you know, like you're saying here, David, is your shame all you see? Are your sins dark and deep? Oftentimes, that's what we see of ourselves. And yet we want to put on this persona that we've got it all figured out.
We don't want anybody else to see that part of us. But when we show that to one another, when we're willing to say like you said, David, this is what I'm struggling with and I'm showing up this Sunday because I love the Lord and because I am in need of his mercy, not because I've had such a stellar week. And, you know, I belong here because I'm so I was so sanctified.
I have it all together. I want to lead the congregation to sing that. You know, the beauty of it is, oh, that is where I am really.
You know, it's a wake up song. Yeah. Have you found, David, that your songs have kind of ministered to your own heart differently throughout different seasons?
Oh, definitely. I think not only because we're pulling all of this from Scripture, right? So it's not it's not my perspective necessarily. It's I'm reading, you know, Nate and I are reading our Bibles. We're sitting under God's word faithfully each week and it's shaping us. So his word is shaping us. So we're we're writing songs from his word. Yeah. So, of course, they have an affecting, you know, ministry over our lives.
I never want to get to the place where I write songs. Period. Yeah, you know, it's just like I want this to be a part of my walk with the Lord, what I'm learning, how he's shaping me. Yeah.
And there are definite times as well where we've written a song and it feels like we've had to eat our own words. Yeah, I've been there. Yeah. You know, I'm sure a pastor would say the same thing.
Or, yeah, anyone who would say the same thing. Yeah. You're like even in parenting. Right. How many times have you said something? Yeah.
Oh, my kids would never. And then. Yeah. It's like as the words spill out of my mouth. So definitely eating our own words like I think most notably, we just released an album called Knowing God, which are 13 songs based off of J.I.
Packer's Knowing God. Which if you haven't if, you know, if your listeners haven't read that book, it's phenomenal. It's a classic. So we wanted to frame songs off of that album. And one of the songs that Nate and I wrote together was a song called All Things. And the chorus just simply says, I know you are working. You are working all things, all things for your glory and my good.
And I think when we wrote that, we thought some things. Yeah. You work some things for my good.
Certainly not. Just the trials and the hardship that we face. Yeah.
You know what your whole ministry and your program is based on, which is such a incredible resource. But when you experience those trials, it's all things, everything he's working. And it's not that we've had to eat our words, but it has felt particularly unique after that song has come out. Yeah. You've had to live your words. Yeah.
You have to live it. Yeah. You know, you you guys wrote another song, which is actually it was the next one in my hand here. And as as you were just talking, it's the one that came to mind.
And then I looked down, I'm like, that's the one that's right here. So, you know, you talk about how your your lyrics are born primarily from the scripture that you read. And that is what makes them lasting. That's what makes them transformative to the heart is because our words are nothing. Our words, our words are empty.
We don't have any life giving words that we can offer one another apart from scripture. But in in the song that you guys wrote called Your Words Are Wonderful, I'm assuming here it's based off of Psalm 119. And it says, your words are wonderful, unfolding like the dawn, a wellspring and the rock we rest upon. We trust your promises that keep our hope alive.
They steady us throughout life's weary climb. And I love this part. And we've sung this so many times in church. And I love this. It says, where else can we go?
Where else can we go? You have the words of life. And actually, David, this is the song when when my dad, my dad was dying, he hadn't died yet, but he was on his deathbed.
And we had been told that Friday that our baby had no heartbeat and we couldn't deliver until Tuesday. So here we go to church on Sunday and I'm carrying this lifeless baby inside of me. This is the song we sang.
And I remember reading those lyrics and just thinking, where else can I go? You have the words of life. When you're facing trials, there's nowhere else you can go but to cling to the Lord. Because he has the only words that breathe life into situations that feel lifeless. And I just I love I love the fact that you guys root everything in scripture because there is there is nothing that we should have ruminating in our hearts. That is more important than the words of life than what God has to give us. So I love I love that song.
Oh, man. Emily, thank you so much for sharing that. I'm so sorry that you went through that. And, you know, as we go through those things, we we feel the nearness of God, even in his seeming distance. We were reminded again as we read scripture that he is near. He's near to the broken hearted.
You know, just one brief comment on that song. In the bridge, we weren't entirely sure what to say. You know, we were talking about the goodness of God's word and and its effect on our lives and that it is life giving.
But we wanted to leave just a space that says you have to open our ears. You by your spirit, your spirit has to open our eyes and he has to help us when we doubt, when we don't believe it. So I was just thankful that we were able to put that in, because that was a significant time in my life of doubt, doubting.
Is this real? Are these words true? And as we come together as a congregation wanting us all to say those words, help us, Lord, help us when we doubt. I'm extremely curious because 119 Psalm is, by all means, my favorite for a lot of reasons. What verse were you basing that off of? Or verses? It was multiple verses.
That's a good question. I think on the on the top of that, we have what song it was loosely based to. Well, it just says Psalm 119, which I'm actually trying to look up right now. I think I've hidden my word in my heart that I wouldn't sin against. There's a lot of, yeah, it's one of the longest, it's the longest psalm in all of Psalms, right? And my word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. And, you know, it's got in almost every stanza, but see, every stanza is based on one Hebrew letter that illustrates that letter to a tremendous degree.
And so I was very, you know, fascinated to know, you know, what what the inspiration was. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. No, good question.
It is. I think it's mostly based on the direct opening line is Psalm 119, 129. And that's your testimonies are wonderful.
I keep them. The unfolding of your word gives light. It imparts understanding to the simple. So it's a play on that unfolding like the dawn. Right. Your words give light to our lives.
I love that. David, we are going to continue this episode with you through the YouTube channel, which is Hope in the Morning Backstage. So if you want to join in and actually hear David sing one of his songs and talk a little bit more about these lyrics and just the inspiration behind them, you can join us there on YouTube. But for now, for our listeners, real quickly, David, where can they find your music and where can they find you? Yeah, well, like you said, I'm a part of Sovereign Grace Music. So we have our website, sovereigngracemusic.com has free charts that you can download. And then you can find us on Spotify and Apple and everywhere YouTube. And then for my own profile, I have, you know, an Instagram, just David Zimmer. And then I have some music on Spotify as well, specifically the song I'm going to share with you is called You Are Always Good.
And that's available on wherever you listen to music. All right. Well, for those of you that would love to listen to the rest of this, I invite you to join us on YouTube at Hope in the Morning Backstage. And David, thank you so much for joining us here on the radio today. Thank you both. This was such a sweet time. Thank you.
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