You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You can find us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shaw or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
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It just doesn't happen. Nothing less than five stars. Links in the description below, and we are here in the studio with Dr. Abbadan Shah. Dr. Shah, welcome. It's good to be here. Dr. Shah, do you leave reviews regularly for restaurants or places you go or experiences?
Honestly, I don't. I was going to say, I don't need to know many people who are actually leaving reviews. Someone left us a review on Yelp for the church. I was like, I didn't even think Yelp was good. We had to go make an account. That's what I was going to say.
I got an account so I can at least see. It was a glowing review. Thank you very much. Thank you very much to the person who left us the church a good review on Yelp. That's right. My first thought when Dr. Shah sent it in the text was, I didn't know people were using Yelp still. Right. All that to say, go leave us a review.
Yeah, go leave us a good review. I heard, what's that talking app at one time, not WhatsApp. Yeah, WhatsApp. Yeah, that's a... WhatsApp is gone, right? Is it really? I didn't know that. Yeah, I heard that WhatsApp is going away.
Really? I didn't know that. Are they replacing it with something or did they get bought? I don't know. I think they're done with it.
Wow. Like, nobody uses WhatsApp. Nobody's using it.
They just have the functionality and other things. Yeah, I think we only ever used it to see what it was about. But yeah, I never, I never used WhatsApp. Yeah. Rest in peace with WhatsApp.
Rest in peace, WhatsApp. The verse of the day today has come to us from 2 Thessalonians chapter 3 verse 13. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. Dr. Shah, I'm so tired of doing good. I'm so, I'm so wore out. I do good for people and it just drains me.
Like, have you heard that? Today has drained me. Today has drained me. Just by doing good. Just by doing good stuff. Well, the Bible tells you, don't be weary. Don't get tired. That right there, stop it.
Oh, you scolded me live on the air. But I think I know what Paul is talking about here because it does get to that point, and I think a lot of people in ministry feel this, where it's like, I'm doing all this good and yet I'm expecting to see the fruit. I'm expecting to benefit and reap from all this stuff. And then when it doesn't happen, when or the way that I want it, it's like, why am I doing all this? You know, it's almost like some like good work fatigue or whatever. I would say keep doing good. You know, my dad told me this a long time ago. When I say long, I'm talking about maybe seven, eight years ago. And I was complaining to him about somebody and how they had behaved.
And, you know, I just, I'm just not happy with this person for what they've done. And I remember him telling me, you know, just be like Christ. He did good everywhere he went.
That's right. You know, the Bible says that, if you can find that verse there, is that he went about doing good. And I think that's a powerful statement that can be a great model for our lives that he went about doing good. I think it's found, I think it's Acts 10 38. Acts 10 38. I can find it right here. Acts chapter 10 and verse 38. Here it is. How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power.
And what does it say? It said he went, hold on. Who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil for God was with him.
He went about doing good. That's right. So the reason I stumbled, did they rename the new King James? Is it KJ21 now?
I don't know. Sorry, I was like looking at the new King James. Anyway. He went about doing good. What do you think that doing good was?
Oh, definitely. I mean, his ministry teaching people about God, healing the sick, you know, feeding the poor. Doing his father's will. That's right.
Helping people in need. He went about doing good. That's right. The Bible said he had compassion on people. So don't be weary.
That's right. Just be like Jesus. Don't stop doing good. Amen.
Amen. You know, Dr. Shaw, we introduced a new segment on the show yesterday called The Check-In. A lot of people started texting in. We used to do this, but we didn't have a segment for it. But basically, The Check-In, this is our way of staying connected with you guys, our listeners. So every day, we're going to read a message from someone who's texted into the show. It might be a question, it might be a prayer request, or just something that's on their heart. But we're just here to check in with you. Today's check-in comes to us from a young pastor.
He did not give his name. Ryan, you have a name for our young pastor. Ooh, let's see. Let's kick it old school. Let's call him Artaxerxes.
Huh? A Pastor Artaxerxes? Artaxerxes. I thought for sure you were going to say Ernie Smythe, but I'll say Pastor Artie. Yeah, Pastor Artie.
Short for Artaxerxes. We'll know that. Hi, Dr. Shaw. I'm a young pastor, and I'm struggling to get volunteers in my church. I've barely been here a year, and no matter how much I ask, it feels like people just don't care.
Artie, you might want to download Grammarly. Pastor. I make announcements, I personally reach out, I try to cast vision, but it feels like I'm talking to a brick wall. People nod their heads, maybe say they'll think about it, but when it actually comes time to show up, nothing. And I don't get it, because I know these are good, godly people.
They love Jesus, they're in church every Sunday, but when it comes to serving, it's like pulling teeth. I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Am I not leading well? Am I not inspiring people enough? It's getting discouraging, and honestly, I don't know what to do anymore.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Pastor Artie Xerxes. I would say to a person like that, more than likely is the culture that has been inculcated for decades. So you're coming into a church where people are used to being like that.
So here you come, and you have a vision, you have a drive, you have a commitment to this place, and you want to do something, but people are not there with you. I know that from personal experience when we came here, it's not that the people were bad, it's not even that the people were ungodly. They just had sort of lived in this cultural mindset that, no, we're fine. We're not going to do much. Well, your church is going to die. So, I mean, I think we'll be all right. We're going to somehow keep going.
But what if 30 years from now, you cease to exist or 20 years, 10 years? Maybe, but I don't care. Yeah, it's crazy. And I like the way you mentioned that, because it seems like this is really a discussion on leadership. But when we talk about leadership, we often talk about these are the qualities that the leader has to have.
Like, he has to be like this. But then you don't realize the fact that you're inheriting your followers. You have to have followers in order to be a leader. And so I can see this young pastor's frustration where it's like, I feel like I'm doing all the right things, but I've inherited a wrong culture. I would say, first things first, you have to begin preaching the Word, because it's the Word of God that's going to either open the eyes of the people or it's going to repel them. Open the eyes of the people means their hearts will be changed, transformed, and they will become active followers of Christ. Repel people means they will hate you, they will resent you, and they will want to find ways to get rid of you. But the Word of God is strong enough, and you have the commitment, the tenacity to hang in there, and also at the same time to love the people.
So you're building relationships with them, you're loving them, you're there for them through the ups and downs. In time, if you are, you know, you've got a thick skin, but at the same time, a warm heart towards God's Word and towards people. In time, you will see changes beginning to happen, but it's not immediate. You're going to struggle. It's going to be hard. It's going to be tough. You may feel like giving up all the time.
So I was just about to say that. Do you recommend that this young pastor put up with this for two or three years, get frustrated, and head off for greener grass? Most of the time that's what people end up doing.
So definitely I would say get them in the Word. I would also say, you know, work towards building a vision for that church. Work towards leading people to strive for a better day, a better place. It means help them see that. Help them see what church may look like if they had their children sitting next to them.
Now, here's the sad irony. The people I told that to, what would it be like to see your children and your grandchildren sitting next to you? And they called the vision and helped me craft the vision.
They did not get to see their children sitting next to them. Wow. Other people did.
That's true. So when you're crafting a vision and you think, okay, I'm crafting this vision for me, that may not happen. You may be crafting the vision with you as the mold.
You're using that mold to build some, not mold as in mildew, but mold as in this play-doh type thing. Using that to make a vision and you see yourself in the vision, but you're really crafting the vision for somebody else. I love that you shared that when we- You love me? I do love you. I do love you. I love that you shared that when we went through. Dr. Shah.
Dr. Shah. All right, I'm done. I got to, I got to last through the applause. We went through our vision. All right, nevermind. No, go for it.
Should we just throw this guy out? That would be great. We went through our vision casting meetings here at the church when we were talking about our new vision statement, what we want the church to look like in the next five, 10, 20 years. You stress that, you emphasize that you may not ever see this vision. You are setting the vision for your kids, for your grandkids, for your great grandkids, for generations yet to come. It gave a weight to what we were doing. It gave a gravity to sitting and talking about what do we want the church to look like?
Not just, hey, this wouldn't be cool if we did this fun thing, but what do we want the church to be and what kind of culture do we want to see in the future until Jesus comes back? I think you knew your congregation well enough to know. If it was a young couple, if it was a young couple, and that's the people who I think pastors typically go after is that young 30-something couple with kids whose life is just beginning. But if you're speaking to older people who have established families and grandkids, they will get on board typically with something like that, where it's like, imagine what your grandkids could have if only you would get on board.
They would certainly get on board with it. Yeah, and I'm not even talking about family relations here when you're talking about vision. People do this for your grandchildren. What I'm saying is do this as a vision for yourself and for your family, but be prepared that that vision may not be actualized in you and your family.
That's sort of painful to hear, painful to experience. Many of our people who helped craft the vision did not get to enjoy the vision. It's not because they were bad people. It's not because they were evil. They were the hard workers. They were sort of the second wilderness generation that walked behind Moses and came to the promised land like Joshua and Caleb and went in and did everything. But it's the generation after them that got to enjoy the land flowing with milk and honey. And then the generation after that lost it.
That's what we have the book of Judges all about and then going right into the time of Samuel and then Saul and David and all that. So here's the question then that comes in. We're going too far on a branch away from the main trunk of the tree.
The trunk of the tree question is how do I get my people to get active? But we're talking about people casting a vision that they may not enjoy themselves, but they may be building a vision for somebody else. So we're kind of going further down. But stay with me on that because we're going to come back to the trunk. So even if you're building a vision that you may not get to enjoy, you will enjoy a vision that God has created for you.
That is something that also needs to be mentioned. It's not just that oh, we're going to we're going to do all this, but unfortunately it's too late for us. No, if you truly are going to dedicate yourself to crafting this vision, say it another way, to plant a tree whose fruit you may not eat. Just know that God will create a vision for you that you never imagined. That God is also planting a tree for you.
As you're planting a tree whose fruit somebody else will enjoy, God is planting a tree for you. Man, fixing to cry. That's really good. Yeah. I mean, if you go back and look in the Old Testament, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, you know, they lived in tents.
They never got to live in the city. Remember? That's what Hebrews talks about. That's right. Because they're waiting for a city. But they sacrifice, they sacrifice. Bad things happen. Good things happen.
Then they ended up staying in tents. But now think about the vision that God planted for Abraham. Right. The blessing and the legacy of his life. I mean, did Abraham even in his wildest dreams as a businessman, right? He was a businessman. He was not a pastor. He was not a priest.
He was not a, you know, he was a businessman with no children leaving Ur of the Chaldeans, moving up the Euphrates Tigris River, going to Haran up in the north, which is like Syria or, you know, Iraq, Jordan, that area, and then making his way down into the promised land. Hey, by the way, this is the year 20, 2000 BC, 2100 somewhere. Let's say 2060 BC. But 3700 years from now, there will be a president of a country named after you.
His name will be Abraham Lincoln. That's right. That's right.
You will be the father. And God told him, like, all those things that were happening, but at the same time, like, not being able to actualize it in his life. And yet in that way, it was, you know what I mean? Yeah.
Like that legacy that he left, but then also just the grand adventure of his life, like the story of his life. Yeah. I mean, golly, what a vision, right? So, yeah, he didn't get to sit there and, you know, enjoy life like he thought he would, or Isaac and Rebecca did not get to enjoy time with Jacob and Esau because they got into a fight and they split and then, you know, Rebecca dies, crazy things. And then Jacob and Esau, I mean, it's just like, we wanted the vision, but the vision kept eluding them, but look what they got. That's right. And Jacob's vision is not over, which means in the end times, those 12 tribes are coming back means what a vision.
So now go back to the trunk. How do you motivate people? You have to motivate them by saying, hey, listen, we're going to craft a vision that's going to be a blessing to your family. But also know you may not be the ones enjoying the benefits of this vision, but work at it anyways.
That's right. I think some of our people knew that because I think you're right. You know, back in 2008, when we were crafting the vision of Clearview Church, at the time it was called Tabernacle, same church, by the way, Tabernacle became Clearview.
Clearview is Tabernacle. But we went through this process of updating things and becoming more contemporary and becoming very clear on our doctrine and our core values and our mission and our vision. But in that process, you know, as we were walking through that time, we didn't realize where we would be today, you know, and look where we are. Look how much God has blessed us. Our people dreamt and created a vision. And then many of them passed away. But we gave them such a grand funeral, you know, just until last year, we did a funeral for somebody who was part of that vision casting.
And man, what a legacy we were able to impart to them. Yeah. I love it. It's so encouraging.
Guys, we love hearing from you. So if you want to check in with us, send us a text to 252-582-5028. We'll read your check-in live on the air, and Dr. Shaw will be happy to give you some daily encouragement.
That's right. Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clearview Today. Hey, Clearview Today listeners. We want to take a quick moment to thank you for tuning in. As you can imagine, producing a show like this takes a lot of time, effort, and resources. And we're grateful for The Truth Network for giving us a platform to syndicate our show. But the vast majority of our support comes from listeners just like you. If you enjoy these talks with Dr. Shaw and you want to see Clearview Today continue to grow, consider making a donation today, because your contributions help us deliver fun, relevant, and biblical content right to your phone every single day.
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Thank you for being part of this community. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right. Just kind of continuing the conversation. Dr. Shah, imagine, if you will, walking into somebody's house for dinner, and you eat the meal, and you're like, Hey, that was really good.
That tasted really good. And then you don't thank them. You don't offer to help. You don't clean up.
You don't acknowledge any of the work that was done behind the scenes. You're like, That was really good. See you next time you invite me over.
You walk out. I mean, some people might actually do that. They're like, Wait, that sounds like every dinner party I've ever been to. But for most people, that sounds kind of odd. No, you want to say, Hey, thank you for doing so much.
This is a lot of work that took into doing this. But a lot of people do approach church that way, where church has become a consumer. Church just happens.
You know what I mean? You just show up, and the pastor shows up maybe 20 minutes before everyone else. The praise team shows up before 20 minutes before everyone else. And it just kind of happens.
And they get used to consuming it. And there has to be, at a lot of churches, I think, a big push to get people to serve. Right. It's tragic, but we have to help our people see what the vision is, right?
That's the starting point. And the vision is not something just for them, but you have to create it as if it's for you. One of my questions to our people used to be, Imagine with me what seeing your children and your grandchildren next to you may look like in church.
Imagine with me. Now, here's the interesting part. Many of them never got to see their children and their grandchildren sitting next to them. But guess what?
Other families today are sitting there with their children and their grandchildren. That's right. So what about the ones? Did I lie to them? Did I give them this hope that never got materialized?
No. To the contrary, as I mentioned, God gave them a better vision, right? A greater vision, a deeper vision. I give you an example of Abraham. Abraham, through you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. I can imagine Abraham thinking, Okay, I'm going to have a child and then I'm going to play with the child and hold the child and watch the child grow up and he will be the savior of the world. Yeah, that's how all the families of the earth shall be blessed as they come to my child who is going to be God's son as well. And then he never got to see that.
But think about what he was doing. He was playing a role in bringing the son of God into this world. Through his faithfulness at 100 years of age and his wife being 90, they had Isaac. And then, of course, as you know, the history of the people of Israel until the time of Christ and all that that took place. So did God fail in his promises to Abraham?
No, he did give him something wonderful. And look at what a legacy that is. I mean, where do we even start?
How much time do we have to even talk about how Abraham was blessed? That's a good point. The other thing I would also tell our young pastors, not only teach your people about this kind of vision, not just any vision, this kind of vision, but also model it for them. Service has to be modeled. Of course, service requires a vision, but service also has to be modeled. You have to show, by showing up, how good this is and how appropriate and right and blessed this is.
I think that's a great point. That's something that we have baked into the culture here at Clearview, I think a lot by your leadership. It isn't just, and I think people miss this, I missed this for years, it isn't just work hard so everyone sees how hard you work and maybe they'll want to work hard too. It's that you work hard because this place is so good. This place is worth working hard for.
Once I've made that distinction, it's a subtle difference, and I think a lot of young people in ministry won't be able to make that connection. It's just like, well, they should see that I'm a hard worker. But it's not just that.
I could go work hard in like a cornfield somewhere. It's that I believe this place, the vision and the mission of this place so much that I'm willing to work hard for it. It really does trickle down. I mean, starting with the senior pastor and then trickling down into the church staff and then the ministry leaders and then in the congregation at large, if you have that mindset of I value this place, what happens here matters, and this is worth fighting for, this is worth devoting my life to, you're going to breed that in other people. You're going to inspire that level of dedication, that level of loyalty, that level of hardworkingness in the people around you. And there is a level of pushback to those people who are like, well, the four walls don't matter.
It's not that, because I think it grew from it's not about the four walls, but then it got to the point where it's like, it doesn't matter. You can worship God and you can serve God anywhere. But one of the things that I think we do that's kind of been making me really push back against that is our congregational prayer, right? Like, yes, I can pray to God anywhere. But if I were to come to you, Dr. Shaw, and I were to say, like, hey, if I texted you, hey, I need like $1,000. I'm in a tight spot. It's like, yeah, you'd probably give it to me. But what if, if I really wanted to drive that home, I would come to your house and say, hey, I'm coming to you.
This is what's going on. I want to ask for this. What do you, and the same way we come as a body to the house of God, not just to receive, but also to give back, you know, and to worship.
Absolutely. And, you know, once again, talking about modeling it, I have to model it that I am enjoying it. I'm being blessed by it. I have to model it by showing up. If I expect my people to show up at, you know, five o'clock on Tuesday mornings to get all the things set up for men's prayer at six, then I need to show up. And I may be showing up at ten till six, but I need to show up. I cannot be like, hey, you guys get up early in the morning and go over there and do this. And I'll roll into whatever, because I'm a busy man.
I don't have time for this. No, it doesn't work like that. You have to show up. If you want to send them, one of my professors used to say years ago, when I was in the master's program, you want them to go out on the highways and the byways, and you want to sit behind in your comfortable offices, but you want them to go out there. You want them to go out there and witness to people and be in tough situations, but you're going to stay behind your computer screen.
Yeah, it doesn't work like that. Great point. You have to get up and go. We work in the inner city setting through our outreach ministry, and so years ago I made that decision that I am going to be there. Now, in the early years I couldn't be, because I was so, so busy. Our church was just beginning to grow, so I was like, there's no way I can do it. And there were other people who handled it not well, as well as I wanted them to.
I mean, they did the best they could, but they were all business owners, full-time workers. It was hard. So I knew I needed to step up, but at the time it was very difficult. And so I also understand, pastors, there are different seasons.
This may be a very busy season. You're juggling seminary and a second job and your church and your family, and it's hard. And you know what's funny, Dr. Shah? It's not even really funny, it's just kind of telling, is that I feel like I've grown more as a Christian by doing, not from receiving. I mean, you know, your teaching and your preaching has fundamentally changed the way that I think about God in the Bible, but I've also grown as a better husband and a better father and a better friend and a better Christian because of the things that we do. You know, the Kindle Ministry is a huge one, but also the work that we put in through the week, the work that it takes to make this show, it's not like, okay, we did it, now everybody's blessed and now I'm worn out. It's like, this gives us energy. This gives us passion and vitality. This should make you excited and happy to do these things. And then that's when the people go, oh wow, he's excited and happy. She's excited and happy to be here. I should be excited and happy.
Why am I not? Great point. Great point. Do you think it's because a lot of times people are like, hey guys, please, we need help. We're struggling. We're trying to keep our head above the water. I would say maybe eight out of 10 times, a lot of things are being done wrongly in our church settings.
How to inspire people, how to motivate people, how to empower people, how to equip people. I mean, I would say eight out of 10 times, we're doing a horrible job. The local McDonald's does a better job. Walmart does a better job doing the cheer than we do. Yeah, that's true, man. Think about the culture that's infused in those places that, rightly or wrongly, I mean, there is a culture that exists among McDonald's employees. There's a reason you like going there. Yeah, yeah. People love Chick-fil-A because of the culture that's there.
It's not because the chicken sandwich is that good. It's good that you go for the culture. 100%. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen or share it with a friend. And you can always support us financially at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Jon, anything you want to plug as we close today?
Yes. A couple of big announcements, big, big announcements. The number one that we want to tell you guys is Dr. Shah is going to be a featured leader on Pray.com. We've been sitting on that for a little while.
We wanted to wait for the right time to tell you. It's going to be happening around March 17th is when we're going to go live. This show will probably be moving over to Pray.com. They'll still be available on all its other avenues, but Pray.com is a big, big, big answer to prayer.
Maybe we'll take an episode and tell you the story of how this came to be. If you do not have a Pray.com account, download it right now. It's a free app, and you can stay tuned for more details on how you're going to hear his messages and his sermons. Everything that we produce is going to be moving over to Pray.com as well, as well as our website. Our website is going to be moving. It has not happened yet, so still visit us at ClearviewTodayShow.com, but very soon everything is going to be moving over to Abidanshah.com, and you can support us at forward slash Clearview Today. All Dr. Shah's episodes, articles, sermons, all that stuff is going to be there.
His books as well. Make sure you buy Dr. Shah and Nicole's book, 30 Days of Praying for America, as well as all of our original music, Clearview Worship, that is on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon, and where digital music is streamed or sold. Make sure you guys join us for tomorrow's conversation. Lots of great content coming your way. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
