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We're going to leave a couple of links in the description so you can do just that. And today we're here in the Clearview Today studio with Dr. Abbadon Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome. It's good to see you.
It's good to see you again. He's the PhD for you and me. He's the PhD for you and—there you go.
I'm not going to say it. No, it's the PhD for you and me as well. Yeah, give me a little guitar.
Yeah. The verse of the day today is coming to us from Philippians 3, verse 12. Not that I have already attained or am already perfected, but I press on that I may lay hold of that which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of for me.
And you know, Dr. Shah, I think we talked about this very recently. We think that that's heaven, right? That's the ultimate destination. But I'm also pressing on for the prizes in this life, the rewards and the blessings that Christ has for us in this life as well. I think a lot of times we view heaven as like, that's the ultimate, and so this life is nothing but suffering, and it's just all chaos, and it's bedlam, and it's whatever. But once I die and get to heaven, all of it will be worth it. But we forget that Christ wants us to enjoy this life on earth as well.
Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, this life is sort of a practice run for that life to come. Now, it doesn't mean practice run in the sense that if you mess up here, it doesn't matter what happens.
No, practice run in the sense of if you do this right, then you'll be able to enjoy that life to come. That's right. And so in our church, we are really working on this concept of eschatology is tied to the rest of theology. It's not just something you can just say, I'm going to study the doctrine of the end times. No, the doctrine of the end times is intricately connected and woven with the rest of the doctrines.
That's right. And we are specifically focusing on Paul's writings. And even there, more specifically focused on the book of Romans. Because in the book of Romans, you find a lot of these things coming together.
Somebody, I think it was Ernest Caseman, who was a German theologian, New Testament scholar, a very smart guy. I don't agree with him on everything that he wrote. But one thing he did say is that Paul's theology is like a tension between his cosmology and his eschatology.
Okay? I'm sorry, his cosmology and his anthropology. Cosmology is not cosmetology, by the way. Like Paul ain't doing nobody's hair.
No, he's not doing anybody's hair. But those words, by the way, are related. They're connected.
It's about bringing order. Okay? So cosmology is order of creation. Cosmetology is like order of your appearance, your hair. Okay. Okay.
That makes sense. So cosmology, creation, the doctrine of creation and how God made everything. And anthropology is the doctrine of human beings. What is wrong with us? Why do we do what we do?
And how can that be rectified? So what Caseman says is that if you want to understand Paul's theology, understand it as a tension between his cosmology and his eschatology. Creation and human beings. That's what Paul is wrestling with. That's what he is doing in all his letters. Another scholar by the name of Lang, he said, but you need to see cosmology and anthropology in Paul's letters through the lens of eschatology. So he threw in another big word between cosmology and anthropology.
He put in eschatology. So I was trying to explain to our people, our church audience, how does that work? And I used the imagery of a shoe. Do you want to explain to us how that works?
Sure. So if you're looking at a shoe and you have a shoelace that you kind of weave through the shoe and you've got to go through the holes in a particular order. So Paul's theology is the shoelace and it is woven through the holes of his cosmology, anthropology and eschatology. And when it's woven through correctly, the shoe is tied correctly and Paul's theology is tied up. So if I take a shoelace and I just try to just put it through those top layers, because I want to jump right to the good stuff, eschatology. If you try to skip a hole, it's not going to work. You have to weave it through correctly.
Yeah. I mean, you'll be able to tie it, but imagine you're tying a shoelace just by the last two holes. So it just feels awkward. It's going to feel wonky on your foot.
It's not going to be as good. Or if you just have the first one, but then your feet will keep coming off. So you've got to have all three sets of laces weaved through those holes and then you can tie them. Have you ever stepped out of your shoe? Like you just be walking. Doesn't it just make you angry?
Especially the slip-ons. Yeah. It's a bad feeling. Or then somebody gives you a flat tire. Oh, that's the worst.
They're walking real close behind you and just boop, just catch you right on the heel. Did your kids ever give you a flat tire? Like on purpose? Maybe one of them. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
He may or may not be in the room with us. Well, not as many times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, Dr. Shell, we're starting a new segment on the show today. Brand new segments called the check-in. Oh yeah. We did that.
We did not plan on that was kind of cute. The check-in. This is our way of staying connected with our listeners, our viewers. So every day we're going to read a message from someone who has texted into the show, whether it's a question, it might be a prayer request.
It might be just something that's kind of on their heart. It's just us being able to check in with you guys. And you can always text us here at the show, two five two five eight two five zero two eight. Today's check-in is coming to us from Jefferson W in North Carolina. Jefferson W?
Yeah. What do you think the W might stand for? Jefferson W. You said Jefferson and I immediately thought of Aeroplane. Jefferson Aeroplane. What is that? It's a band.
I never heard of that. Anyway, W. He's moving on up to the east side. Let's go, I don't know, Wario. Wario?
I thought for sure you were going to say Walker so you could be like, Kid, Dinomite! No. All right. Jefferson Wario.
In honor of Super Mario Day that just happened a couple days ago. Oh, OK. OK. Hey, guys. Love the show. I listen. This is Jefferson Wario. I love the show. I listen every morning on my commute. I've been following the Truth Network closely for many years.
Shout out to Big Stu Epperson. That was me. Lately, I've been struggling with feeling distant from some of my family members. Many of my cousins and two of my brothers claim to be Christian, but they never go to church. Whenever I invite them, they decline. And when I lovingly confronted them about this, they told me they are convinced that being a Christian is about more than being a good person and attending church. I know that doesn't make—is more than—sorry. It's more than about attending a church. It's about what kind of person, you know, being a good person. I know that attending church doesn't make you a Christian, but I don't feel like I'm eloquent or convincing enough to convince them.
Any advice? Thanks. Love your ministry, Dr. Shaw. Jefferson W. Hey, Clearview Today listeners. We want to take a quick moment to thank you for tuning in. As you can imagine, producing a show like this takes a lot of time, effort, and resources. And we're grateful for the Truth Network for giving us a platform to syndicate our show. But the vast majority of our support comes from listeners just like you. If you enjoy these talks with Dr. Shaw and you want to see Clearview Today continue to grow, consider making a donation today, because your contributions help us deliver fun, relevant, and biblical content right to your phone every single day.
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Now let's get back to the show. Hey, Clearview Today listeners. Every day we invite you to join us in these conversations and explore the never-ending truth of God's Word. And if you've been following the show for a while, if you feel like it's blessed you, and you believe in the mission we're on, we invite you to partner with us through your financial support.
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We appreciate every single one of you. Now let's get back to the show. So I think they're saying, like, I don't have to go to church to be a Christian. That's not what makes me a Christian. This is what the cousins are saying.
This is what they're saying. I mean, I agree. And he's saying, I disagree, but I'm not good enough to... I feel like a lot of Christians are like that. It's like, I know you're wrong, but I don't know how to... I don't know how to answer it. I mean, yeah, of course, they're right.
You don't have to go to church to be a Christian, but if you are a Christian, why wouldn't you want to go to church? Right. Right. I can't remember.
What is wrong? You know, you're part of the family and you're saying, yeah, I'm part of the family. I just don't like to come to the family gathering. Right. Like, I don't have to go home at night and eat dinner with my wife and spend time with my wife to be married. I can go off there and be married.
I heard someone say one time, I can't remember who said it, but you don't have to go to church to be a Christian. Correct. You also don't have to have a parachute to jump out of an airplane, but it helps. You probably want it. That's a good one. Yeah.
That's a good one. Yeah. I think you're right, though. There's a problem if you don't desire to be part of the family. And I think maybe it's the selfishness that being saved is for me.
Going to heaven is for me. And there's this loss of community. And yet with God's people, it is often very communal. Well, I feel like that struggle is pervasive, especially where we are, because we live in such an individualistic culture. Everything is about you as an individual. I mean, even social media is structured around you. It is your experience. No one else gets to dictate it for you, even though there are people behind programming your algorithms.
That's a different conversation. But it's a struggle for us to think in collectivist terms, like we need one another. But God has created us for community. He's woven that into our heart, into our DNA.
Here's a question, Dr. Shaw. God's presence, right? We all agree God's presence is always with us.
He's always there. But is there, because the church is God's house, is it just where God's people dwell? Or is there something special about coming to see God in his house and in like a house of worship?
I would say yes. God's presence is in his house. We call it the church now in a very special way.
Now, I know immediately some people are going to say, well, wait a minute, time out, time out. That's not true anymore. This is not God's house, OK? Neither is the temple God's house, because God himself said, do you expect me, or I think Solomon said that, we didn't build this place to house you.
The entire universe cannot hold you. In that inaugural prayer that Solomon did, he says that. So it's not like the ancients were dumb and saying, oh, yeah, God can fit in the temple.
No, they knew. But the whole idea of a temple was something very special. So I just talked about Paul's theology is to be weaved through those holes of cosmology, anthropology, and then eschatology. What is cosmology? Let's talk about that for a moment, because that will help answer, why do I need to go to church? To understand Paul's cosmology, we don't turn to Greek or Egyptian or Syrian or Assyrian cosmology. We turn to the Bible, to the Old Testament.
And what do we find in the Old Testament? We find that the psalmist talks about the Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven. The temple is somewhere, but the throne in the temple is in heaven.
OK, wow, that's a massive temple. Psalm 29, verse 3, the voice of the Lord is over the waters. The God of glory thunders, the Lord is over many waters. The voice of the Lord is powerful. The voice of the Lord is full of majesty. The voice of the Lord breaks the cedars. Yes, the Lord splinters the cedars of Lebanon. OK, what is God doing here?
He makes them also skip like a calf, Lebanon and Syrian, like a young wild ox. The voice of the Lord divides the flames of fire. The voice of the Lord shakes the wilderness. The Lord shakes the wilderness of Kadesh. The voice of the Lord makes the deer give birth and strips the forest bare. And in his temple, everyone says glory.
The Lord sat enthroned at the flood and the Lord sits as King forever. So when it gives you all this nature description from the waters to the hills and the cedars and the calf and the deer, what it's saying is, nature is God's temple. It sort of reminds me, and I don't know if this is part of it, but it sort of reminds me of Eden, right? Like the original meeting place between God and humanity. I mean, would you consider that like a literary prototype of the temple or something like that?
In a sense, yeah. Where it's like God and people are meeting together. I think the Psalm just kind of reminded me because it's very nature-based.
That's right. It's not like a four walls base, but it's like the earth. But it's not just Eden or just our planet. The entire universe is God's temple. His throne is in heaven, but the entire universe, I'm talking about universe.
I'm not just talking about our galaxy, our solar system or anything. I'm talking about the entire universe is God's temple. Unfortunately, sin has corrupted God's temple. In Genesis chapter three, we hear how when sin came in, of course, God cursed the serpent and God, you know, he disciplined the woman, but then he listened to what he said to the man. He said, because you have heeded the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you saying you shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground for your sake. So now creation has been corrupted because of Adam's sin. Good point. It's not just the fruit of the ground.
It's the ground itself. And so God's temple now has been desecrated because of sin. So is that why we need these or the people of Israel needed these like sacred spaces, like the tabernacle, like somewhere that's set aside, that's free from that corruption? Yeah. Yeah.
And not just let's kind of stay on this one a little bit longer. It's not just that the creation was desecrated, but also the beings in the created order who were assigned the task to maintain order in God's creation. Many of them also sinned. In Psalm 82, verse one, God stands in the congregation of the mighty. He judges among the people.
How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Defend the poor and fatherless. Do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy. Free them from the hand of the wicked. They do not know, nor do they understand.
They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are unstable. I said, you are gods and all of you are children of the most high. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm lost. Who has failed to keep all these assignments? Like judging the people, defending the poor and fatherless, doing justice to the afflicted and needy. Who are these people? Because they're described as gods. So they're not human beings. These are angels. These are like angelic beings. Angelic beings who have disobeyed God. Remember when Satan fell, he took one third or something like that with him, of his cohorts, who also rebelled against God with him.
So Creation Temple is not only, not only the Creation Temple has been desecrated, but also the attendants in the temple have also been compromised. So, you know, anyways, there's so much I can say about that. Well, I have a quick question because I wonder, and maybe this is, maybe this is not for today, maybe this is like something that's going to take us down a rabbit hole, but like these, these gods, these angelic beings, how much of it do you think is like over the course of human history, all these false gods that people have worshiped were these beings versus gods that people have just made up?
You know what I mean? I believe behind all of those false gods, even if they look made up and dead and all that, yes, there are some demonic things out there that are more active and more responsive, but many, and again, every time I talk about these kind of evil, satanic, devilish things, I always say pray for me. Well, yeah, of course. And the reason I ask is because I think about the ways that these false gods have drawn people away from Christ. And so I wonder if it's like, this is one of the ways that they do that is by posing themselves as false gods that people have worshiped.
Because I remember it talks about, I can't remember where it is, where he talks about there's no principalities that can separate us. And I was like, well, how do angelic beings, principalities do that? Maybe it's through posing as those false gods.
Yeah, yeah. I would say, I think that's a big part in that. And they also try to tell us that God doesn't love us. They try to separate us from the love of God. And that's why Paul in Romans chapter eight in verse 38, he says, for I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. In other words, these beings in God's created order also try to tell us constantly that God doesn't love you.
He doesn't like you. You annoy God. You're not a good person. God hates you. God wishes he had somebody better. I mean, these are the things that they do.
So what is the next step? I was going to say, it feels like we're going to be in this loop forever. And yet we know that day is coming, right?
We know that day is coming on the horizon. It was very interesting to me to hear us describe these beings in this light, because this is the same MO that Satan had in Genesis. His desire was to steal worship from God, to pull worship away from God. And he wanted to be like God. I mean, we see that in the false gods that we've been talking about masquerading as deities. Also, God doesn't actually love you.
God doesn't want you to eat this because he knows you're going to be like him. So this idea that God doesn't actually have your best interest in mind, I mean, that came from the one who caused them to fall in the first place. But what my mind goes to then is, and I think you're exactly right, is the future. What God says to him, what's going to happen through Christ's power on the cross, and then that eventual restoration that's going to come to all of creation through Jesus' blood, through that work on the cross, that restoration that's still to come. And so even in Old Testament, you find promises of this renovation that is coming, renovation of this cosmos, renovation against all the desecration and the destruction that has been caused because of sin and satanic beings. And it says in Isaiah chapter 24, verse 19, the earth is violently broken. The earth is split open. The earth is shaken exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard and shall totter like a hut. Its transgression shall be heavy upon it. They will fall and not rise again. It shall come to pass in that day. The Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones and on the earth, the kings of the earth. And they will be gathered together as prisoners are gathered in the pit and will be shut up in the prison.
After many days, they will be punished. The moon will be disgraced and the sun ashamed for the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem and before his elders gloriously. So what I want us to understand is that one day God will fix this cosmos. And that promise is not just found in Revelation.
That goes all the way back to the Old Testament. That's right. That's right. Now, through Jesus Christ, we are to eagerly await this redemption. In fact, the entire creation is eagerly waiting for the redemption. Right. That's what life is. It's the waiting for that return. Right. In Romans chapter 8, Paul says, you know, consider the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed. For the earnest expectation of the creation.
Did you know that? The creation is earnestly expecting. Yeah. And what is he expecting?
For the revealing of the sons of God. We are. Right. Right. The creation is waiting for us to be healed and renovated because on the heels of our renovation is the creation's renovation. Amen.
That's beautiful. It's the creation's healing. So it knows once they're renovated, we're next.
We're next. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope, because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. And so entire creation is waiting to become that beautiful temple of God again. I think somewhere, Dr. Shah, Jefferson W. is listening, somewhere in North Carolina and saying, wait a minute, I just wanted to get my family in church. What does any of this have to do with the church? Well, until that day, until that day when God will once again fill the entire creation with his glory, it's already there, but without sin and without those satanic beings who have left their tasks and went against God, until that day, the church is the representative of the new creation, the new temple to come.
That's right. The church. And the passage you find there is Ephesians chapter two and verse 19.
Here, I'll read it if you want. Ephesians 2 19, it says, now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God. That's what the church is.
Isn't that beautiful? That's what the church is. Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone in whom the whole building being fitted together grows into a holy temple in the Lord in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the spirit. So yes, the church is more than just the four walls. Yes, you don't have to attend, like attend a church service in order to be considered a Christian. But look at how the Bible describes the body of Christ. It describes it in the context of a building of a building that is being built together with Christ as the cornerstone. But we are described in the context of a of a unit of a gathering. So the gathering together of believers matters and something that's important and it's not something that we ought to neglect. And I get what you're saying, Jefferson, because I'm that same way, too, where it's like you hear these cliches so so often, like I don't have to go to church to be a Christian. And you you realize, like, OK, you're telling the truth.
But I think the thing to talk to your family and maybe if you want to send them this episode, I know we would appreciate that. I think they would appreciate it, too, is that it's so much more than attending and sitting and listening and learning. You know what I mean? You are filling out a holy purpose. You are you are living out a holy purpose as you are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the spirit.
I think that can't be overstated and that can't be done in isolation. God is not going to give you all of his your all of like his Holy Spirit to build you up and then have you go through life alone. So it's not like attending church. That's it's not about attending church.
It's about being the church. That's right. Yeah, that's right. So important for us. And as we love hearing from you, we love doing this check in with you.
So if you would like to write your check in to us, you can do that at two five two five eight two five zero two eight. We'd love to play it live on the air and have Dr. Shah offer you some daily encouragement. That's right. Thank you, Dr. Shah. Thank you, Jefferson. Thank you, listeners.
That's right. Make sure you guys join us for tomorrow. Same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on The Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen. And you can always support us financially at ClearviewTodayshow.com.
John, anything you want to plug as we close? Yes, big things, big, big things on the horizon. Number one, Dr. Shah is going to be a featured leader over at Pray.com.
Big, big thing. We're going to do a couple episodes on that. But The Clearview Today Show is going to be available on Pray.com. All of Dr. Shah's sermons, all of Dr. Shah's daily devotionals.
We actually haven't announced that yet. But all of his reading, his books, his sermons, his articles, all that stuff is going to be available at Pray.com. This is a big deal. Pray.com has a listenership of over 19 million people.
That's 19 million people who have direct, free, 100% free access to the gospel of Jesus Christ. There's going to be some times. Do you remember the times offhand that we'll be live on Pray.com? It's Monday at 7 p.m.
I know that. Wednesday at noon. Noon. And Friday at 830 a.m.
Yes. Yes, that's when we will be live. But guess what? Here's the good news.
You can access all of that content for free on Dr. Shah's page. That will be going live on March 17th. We will announce that. We will probably do a big show about it. Also, our website, ClearViewTodayShow.com, is moving.
It's moving day. It's not moved yet, but it's going to be moving over to Abidanshah.com forward slash Clear View Today. You can support the show financially. You can give. You can download all of our episodes 100% free. It will be free on Pray.com as well.
Lots and lots of great things that will happen. I'm almost done. Dr. Shah and Nicole's book, 30 Days of Praying for America, Daily Devotions to Heal Our Nation is on sale on Amazon right now. You can grab a copy. It's book three and a three-book series. Book four is coming out very soon. We've got some original music in the pipeline. Our single, Great and Awesome, is going to be coming out soon.
Make sure you grab it on iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon. That's right. And everywhere else.
It's a lot of places too. Make sure you guys join us for tomorrow's discussion. Lots of great content coming your way. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today. Bye. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
