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Absolutely nothing less than five stars. Link in the description below and we are here once again on this beautiful Monday morning with the great, with the powerful, with the wise, with the, the, the, help me with my- Magnanimous. With the magnanimous, doctor. Is that the secret word?
The opalescent. Is that the secret word? Huh? I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm scared.
Don't do it, Dr. Shaw. He's trapped here. Did you get me?
Ah, okay. I lost my, I lost my opportunity. Dr. Abbadon Shaw, welcome to the show, Dr. Shaw. Very good to see you. Very, very, very, very good to see you. I'm ready to start the week, man. I'm ready to go. You are like on 11 on Monday.
Listen, worship last, worship on Sunday was fantastic. It's a Monday morning. We're bright eyed.
We're bushy tailed. I'm ready to start the week. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Let's do it. Verse of the day comes to us today from Ephesians chapter one, verse 13. In him, you also trusted after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation in whom also having believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Wow. I love that assurance.
And I think that it's, it's so funny that there's so many, not funny, really. It's kind of tragic, but it's interesting that so many denominations don't have that assurance that you are sealed. You know, you, you can't be like, like think about like the purpose of a seal, like if a king seal something, it's like, this is not to be opened. Right.
But they're thinking the Holy Spirit himself seals it. It's like, well, you might could lose it. I mean, I hope that you're, you may never even had it.
Wow. Like, but I don't know. It's just one of those weird things.
Imagine living every day and not sure if you are still a child of God. That, that is being a nervous wreck. I remember the story you told about your father asking his, his father or his grandfather? His grandfather. He had that same thing, right?
Like it was that same story. In Islam, there is no assurance of salvation. So what happens when you die? Well, when you die, you, you have to stand on the day of judgment. And the way it's laid out is you are, here's heaven, here's, here's this world, okay, this life. And then there is heaven on the other side. In between is a great chasm and that is hell. Across the chasm is a bridge. And the bridge is, again, for those who are just joined in, this is how judgment is described in Islam. Across the chasm is a bridge and the bridge is finer than your hair and it's sharper than a sword. Wow. And you have to walk across it. How in the world can you walk across a bridge like that? So thin and so sharp. So thin and so sharp. And if you fall, that's hell.
Wow. You get one shot. You get one shot to go across.
And so how can you make it? Well, you can't unless Allah has mercy on your soul. Unless he, in his divine sovereignty, deems that you will enter heaven, then you will go across. So what happens to your good works in this life?
They don't matter. What happens to the Shahada? Shahada is your, you know, declaration. There is no God, but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.
What happens to that? Doesn't matter. So it's like, like you, even if you live your life for Allah, even if you've done the five pillars of Islam, it doesn't matter. It's just, it's just how he's feeling that day.
Just hope for the best. Wow. Now there are Muslim theologians who come around and say, you know, well, no, that's not, but that's really is the heart of how it works. And it's like zero assurance of salvation.
Wow. It's all on Allah's, you know, mood, I guess you can say, on that day that if he feels like you should, then you will. If he doesn't care, then you're going down. Thank goodness that that's not how our salvation is preserved. It's held in the hands of Jesus. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. We are in the hands of Christ and Christ's hand is in the hand of the Father. So for us to get out of it, we have to come out of two different grips and that's not going to happen because the Holy Spirit has also sealed us.
So now we have three different grips or seals on us. Amen. That's a great way to think about it. I feel like that, that line of thinking where, you know, maybe God's going to let you into heaven, maybe he's not. I feel like that often creeps into society. That Islamic thinking. Yeah, it creeps into even Christianity. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, there's a view and that's, that's on the role of rewards, good works. And it's, it's by people I admire, people I read, people I even recommend. But when it comes to this, the role of works on judgment day, I sharply disagree with them because I don't find their view very biblical. What their view says is this. It's kind of like an already but not yet view, which is, yes, you are saved, but not yet. Like you're saved, but it's not like, it's not like you've got your ticket in. Now it's quite different to say, yes, we are saved. We are being saved. And yes, we will be saved. I always believe that because scripture talks about that. In a sense, we are saved. It's finished, but in a sense, since we are being saved from this present evil age and yes, in a sense, we will be saved when everything is completed and sin is done away with and Satan is done away with and everything is gone.
Now you're completely saved. So all these different, I'm going to use quotations here, all these different salvations have different functions and different purposes. Right. It's not that we're constantly, like our sanctification day to day is not us being saved again and again and again. In a sense, we are in a sense, but it's not the same kind of saved. Here's what I mean by that.
When we say that, we're not saying that this may not happen. Right. Because according to this already but not yet view, you are saved. OK, that's a done deal. We know that is done. You are being saved.
Yes, it's a present tense. So if you know you're being saved, then you are being saved. Future, according to this view, that is still contingent on your works in this life.
Now, even though these people claim that and that's how they explain the role of works and judgment, they will still say, no, but you know, that's not what we mean. They're going to be they're going to simply confirm what has already been done. Confirm.
You know, you can put a lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. Right. Right. Right. So my works will confirm whether I was really or truly not saved.
Hold on a minute. So I still have to wait on my works on that judgment and go, oh, thank goodness. Right.
My works were done right. Praise God. Now I know for sure.
No longer do I have to worry. It feels much more like an Islamic teaching. Yeah. I mean, to me. Yeah.
Yeah. But in Islam, it's like completely up to Allah as well. Here, my works will one day be judged and that judgment will determine whether or not my salvation was for real. But that almost feels like how the secular how like how not how atheists and non-Christians see salvation, that you have to weigh your good works against your bad works like that almost.
That's I mean, that's like an Egyptian mindset, like you got to the scales have to balance your your heart in the feather. That's like before a Christian gets saved. That's what they think. Right. Yep.
Like if you were good. That's why I have such a problem when when Christian theologians who I respect. And I read the writings and I may still buy their books when they say this about this aspect of salvation. I'm like, why? Right.
Why? Why are you abandoning what I believe is a biblical and orthodox view of salvation, that it is complete. It's settled in this life. Your works follow you. Right. Bible talks about that your works follow you.
But that's different. They're not following you to affirm you or confirm you on the other side. And of course, they'll make their case. They'll look at the Book of Revelation, those seven churches and the seven letters and the things that Jesus had against each of them, except for the one. And then how he told them, if you overcome, I will give it to you. If you overcome, I'll give it to you. So, yeah, see, see, if you overcome, then you'll get it right. Then you'll get your reward. But that does not mean that my salvation is hinged on whether or not I overcome. Right. The rewards in heaven are not the salvation and the salvation is not the rewards. Basically, they're two different things.
And so you're overcoming for those heavenly rewards, not so that I can be saved, so that I can actually go to heaven. Yeah. Great point.
Makes sense. So we went pretty long there just to say thank God that we were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen.
Amen. One of our listeners maybe needed to hear that today. Well, I think I needed to hear it, too. You know, it's different.
It's a different type of thing than we usually talk about here on the show. But at the same time, it's good to think deeper about your salvation. It's good to think deeper about what God has done for you and through you.
Absolutely. John, you got the Bible cards out there. Are we playing today?
Yeah, I thought we might just do a little bit of playing today before we hit that old ad. The jessest game by the Action Bible. This is a great game. So I'm going to give these guys 15 clues, and they have basically 15 chances, but the clues get progressively easier. Dr. Shaw, I feel like you're going to get this one pretty quickly, based on the series that we just did. First hint, it's a person. My dad was Joash. Oh.
It's up for you, too. Ryan's playing as well. I cut down a false god's altar. Gideon. It's Gideon. Gideon. I knew it wasn't. I was like, Gideon. I know who that is. You said, based on the previous series, I'm running through the Rolodex of judges. I'm like, oh.
Yeah, it was judges. So just so you all know, to get it on the first is wild. Typically, it's designed so that by the 15th hint, you should really be knowing this. This one is a thing. Oh, this one's kind of unfair. I was in Horeb. There will be no harvest if I am forgotten. God is called this. Like me, you can be built into a spiritual house. Ark. Not the Ark.
No other one but God. I don't know that one. That one's weird. I'm a good place to put your feet. To put your feet? I'm a good place to hide.
You might find honey in me. Oh, like a rock? It's a rock, yeah.
Yeah, it's a rock. That one was weird. That's why I said I didn't really like that one. Oh, that's pretty good.
Yeah, that's good. All right, this is a place. I still get the feet part.
It's from Psalm 40 and verse 2. Oh, I planted my feet upon the rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, all right, okay. Oh, Dr. Schell, you should get this one.
This one's good. This is a place. I turned into a place for owls. I'm the jewel of kingdoms. Is it like, is this, is it, oh my, come on.
You want one more? No. Is this like a structure or a city? A place, a location. This is Indiana Jones went there.
I mean, come on. Oh, Petra? Petra? It's not Petra. It's not Petra?
Run away from me. Sodom and Gomorrah? No. Jonah? No, and Jonah's a person. I'm written on a woman's forehead.
Uh, written on a woman's forehead. Is this Babylon? Yeah, this is Babylon. Oh, nice. Oh, the revelation.
Yeah, all right, one more, and then we got to take a break. This is a person. I'm from the tribe of Benjamin. Saul? Yeah! How'd you know that?
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Which Saul? I would say the Old Testament Saul. It's the apostle Paul.
But it says- But I'll take that too. It says Paul slash Saul. Yeah, nice. Yeah, good job.
Both of them were from the same tribe, the tribe of Benjamin. It doesn't say, it says I am Paul slash Saul. Good job. Very nice. That's a fun game, man. I've really fallen in love with this game. Nice. I love it. The action Bible.
The guessing game by the action Bible. Yeah. So cool. I wish, hey, you know what? I tell you what, we're going to send this episode to them. Maybe see if we can say- Yeah, get a little sponsorship. This episode is sponsored by the action Bible. Hey, maybe the illustrators will illustrate a picture of us from the Clearview Today show. There you go. Those are nice actual comic book artists. That'd be pretty cool. That'd be cool. That's right.
Guys, don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clearview Today. Hey, Clearview Today listeners. We want to take a quick moment to thank you for tuning in. As you can imagine, producing a show like this takes a lot of time, effort, and resources. And we're grateful for the Truth Network for giving us a platform to syndicate our show. But the vast majority of our support comes from listeners just like you. If you enjoy these talks with Dr. Shaw and you want to see Clearview Today continue to grow, consider making a donation today because your contributions help us deliver fun, relevant, and biblical content right to your phone every single day. That's right. Every single donation, big or small, goes directly to the production of this show.
It helps us keep the lights on in the studio, it helps keep the mics hot and running. So if these conversations are making a difference in your day, or if you just want to help us keep the gospel of Jesus Christ in the airwaves, we would appreciate your support. You can give by visiting our website, that's ClearviewTodayShow.com, and just click on that button that says Give Today. And remember, your support truly makes a difference in our show.
Thank you for being part of this community. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. The mayor of Los Angeles got back into town last Friday, and over the weekend, Dr. Shaw, she's been... Well, how do I say it? It ain't been pretty. It ain't been good. People are not having... I mean, I completely understand. There's been lots and lots of videos of press conferences with her going viral on TikTok. And people aren't having... And they're not good.
Yeah. As Ricky Ricardo would say, that's explaining to do. She said, Mayor, you got some... It's kind of interesting that we're seeing this, and I think we've been talking about this ever since the election, but I think California is seeing a crisis in leadership, and it's leading people... It's not seeing a crisis. It has been coming for a long time.
Their eyes are being opened to the fact that they have had a crisis in leadership, and now they're seeing that there's leadership in crisis. Very well done. I love that.
I think I was going to get it. Very well done. Good job. That was pretty well done.
We scripted it right before the show, and I still couldn't get it right. No, crisis, it displays the merit of leadership. I mean, who you are as a leader will rise to the surface, good or bad, in the face of crisis. That's true. I mean, we saw that in 2020, didn't we? Oh, man. Yeah, where we saw a lot of people who we thought were good leaders, and maybe who were good leaders in times of peace, where when a crisis happened, it was like, man, I'm running away from this.
I'm not even going to touch this. Maybe they were not good leaders, because leadership is really tested when things are tough. It's not just about things are going great. Can you be a leader when things are going great? Yeah, that's also an important task, but really, it's in time of crisis, in time of distress, where people say, which way? What's next?
That's right. And if you are giving wrong directions, or you set up your people for failure, then not only you don't have any leadership in that crisis, but you have a crisis of leadership. It feels a lot like people are so quick to jump into positions of power, because that's what they want. Not positions of leadership, you know what I mean? It's like they want so desperately to be mayors, or to be governors, or to be the president, or to be the vice president, and it feels like this person doesn't understand fundamentals. And maybe it's because I've been with you for so long, and we've been reading books on it. We've actually cultivated this. But it seems like fundamentals of leadership are almost nonexistent among most of the people who are actually in those positions of power.
Oh, absolutely. Years ago, I began the habit of reading at least one solid leadership book every year. One solid preaching book every year.
One solid prayer book every year. And most of the time, the books that I've chosen are done with the research, talking to people, looking at suggestions, book reviews, and it turns out to be a good choice. Sometimes they haven't been as good, or they did not meet my expectations.
But overall, I've tried to read at least one in each of those subjects. But leadership is one that I have tried as much as possible to learn and study, because it's not natural. I know sometimes people say, leadership, you're just born that way. Not necessarily. Maybe some people are with a type of personality, maybe.
I don't know. But I think more leaders are made than they're born. I agree with that. That's great. I agree with that. I believe leaders are made.
And who are you around? So if you're around leaders, if you grew up with a father like I did, who was always leading, he was leading in school, he was leading in church, he was leading in the community, he was leading as a professor when he was teaching in a college level. So I always was around him and I saw how he responded, how he reacted, how he had a standard of excellence.
I saw that. And so I'm doing the same things today, but in a sense on a much bigger level, which I never imagined I would do. Now his leadership in the nation, because he was translating for the Billy Graham Association. So he never met Billy Graham, but he met a lot of his associates.
And so he was connecting with some very powerful people, very important people. I'm not doing things like that, but I am leading in some ways even more than he did. Absolutely.
I would say so. You guys are benefiting from that big picture, those who are listening to this radio show and watching online. You guys are benefiting from the leadership experience and the books that Dr. Shah has read and kind of absorbed that material.
He's imparting those lessons to you. And then on a much more immediate scale, those of us who are in this room, having worked alongside you for more than a decade now, that has shaped my view on leadership. It has shaped my capabilities as a leader. And I would not be where I am today without you pouring those leadership lessons into me. Thank you for seeing that.
I agree. And your dad may have done, quote unquote, bigger things in the immediate short term. And I don't even know that that's really what you're saying. But at the same time, look at the foundation that he paved for you to build this church, for you to have this radio show, for you to have all the books and your PhD.
You're 100% right, because somebody has to lay the foundation. I've told you guys, I've spent, Nicole and I have spent 20, how many years now? Six or seven?
Or is it more than that? Twenty-four, twenty-five years. Yeah.
Twenty-five years at Clearview. We have spent a quarter of a century laying down the foundation. Because anytime you build something, you need a foundation. Right.
Yeah. You cannot just build. You say, I want to build a house over there.
You can't do that. You have to dig. You have to pour the foundation.
You have to lay the slab down. You have to build a foundation. Then you can start building on it.
Without that, it's not possible. We've spent 25 years laying down the foundation now, and we've built other structures on it. What we tell you guys is, use it. Put the walls up. Put the ceiling up. Decorate it.
And it's more than just building the walls and the ceiling. Put a new living room suite on it. Put a new sound system in it. Put a new entertainment center.
Put a lab in it. Do whatever it takes to make this place better. My dad, you're 100% right. He laid the foundation. Then coming here, I have helped lay the foundation, along with my wife, Nicole.
Today we're building on top of that. I think maybe you can speak to this, because you've got a lot more ministry experience than I do. But it seems that in ministry, people think that the only way to really be a leader and to exhibit that leadership is to do everything. I have to go lay the foundation somewhere else. So rather than dedicate the rest of my life here, building on the foundation that this pastor has laid, I should be a pastor going and laying the foundation elsewhere.
That's the only way I can truly be a leader. I don't disagree with that. You think people... Yeah.
I'm like, fine. Just be sure you spend 25 years. Otherwise they just know what it takes.
You can't go do in two years what you've done in 25. Right. It doesn't work that way.
You can do it, but just know you've got to go lay the foundation. Right. But I guess my question is, why desire that in the first place?
I mean, God has called people to be pastors. I get that. But do you feel like people are ashamed to say... Because I don't have that desire at all.
I don't think Ryan does or anyone does. I would rather say, look, the foundation has been laid for me. I can do what I'm good at and build on it. If I catch this vision that Pastor Shaw and his wife have laid, and if I catch that vision, make it mine, in the process I'll also get to do what I want to do. But do you feel like other people... Is it harder for other people to... Not everybody thinks that way. Yeah.
Because it's a very immature, incomplete, I would even say aberrant understanding of leadership. He already did it. Oh, that's right. You're right.
You're right. My button finger got it. My button finger got it too. My butter fingers were rolling. Butter fingers. Yeah. I'm going to let... Nobody better lay a finger.
I'm going to go for it. Was that it? No.
Okay. So, you know, it's a wrong understanding of leadership and it manifests itself during crises or crisis. Yeah. I think that was shown most recently when there were shutdowns in 2020. Oh, yeah. We saw leaders prove their mettle or prove that they were not the leaders that they claim to be.
That's a good point. Yeah. And I think we're seeing the ramifications of that now. I mean, this is something that you said, I mean, we don't, you don't have to take our word for it. We have podcasts that we were doing in 2020 where we said in a few years, you're going to see the ramifications of this.
I think here in 2025, we're actually seeing it. Exactly. What's happening in LA and other places and even in our local communities, it's simply a crisis of leadership because leadership in crisis is proving that there is a crisis in leadership. Right. Yeah. That's right.
And what's happening now, I hate to say that what's happening now is inevitable, but I think once 2020 happened and everybody sort of threw their lot in and divided themselves into the leaders, they were going to be, I'm not, I don't want to go so far as to say that path was set, but I think it was a clear indication of how things were going to go. Right. And we're not here to say like these fires are, you know, anything like that, but the response to it and like how we're talking about the leadership or lack thereof, how that it is being handled. Right. And if you did not set up your community to fight these things, and if you did not have a plan in place, if you were not prepared to lead your people and give them the resources they need, then of course in the crisis, your leadership has been proven to be unworthy. Right. That's right.
Unworthy. And so, yeah, we talked about all this foundation, everything to say that if you can see a community or a region or an area or whatever is, or a business is, or a church for that matter, is falling apart, there's a problem in leadership. Yeah.
Huge problem. Yeah. And we're going into, and I didn't mean to cut you off if you were going to say something, but we're going into a new shift where we're about to see a marked change in leadership right here in January. And so I'd be interested to see the foundation that gets laid over the next four years.
Yes. So a great foundation was already laid eight years ago when President Trump took office the first time. What hasn't been undone during this current administration, I'd be interested to see what is laid further and what gets built up over the next four years. I feel like this conversation has kind of two logical end points. One would be the person who is looking for leadership. They're like, who do I turn to?
How do I know who to place my trust in? And then the other one is the person who says, how do I become that leader? Right.
Right. I would say what John Maxwell often says, if you want to be, and he learned that from his mentors, one in particular. And I think that one was Elmer Towns. Elmer Towns was a great professor at Liberty University who helped Jerry Falwell start Liberty University. He was a pastor down in Florida, I believe. And I read his books. I read his book on his journey, Elmer Towns' journey in becoming a pastor and a leader.
And so it helped me a lot. But Elmer Towns told John Maxwell, he said, really, if you want to be a leader, then read. Read the books that great leaders are reading. Okay? Read those books.
Or writing. Read those books. Then meet great leaders.
Get around them. I mean, that's why we have great leaders that come through our shows or we go to NRB and we meet them. That's right. Or we're, you know, meeting them in the community sometimes.
And then thirdly, go places where you are around great people. Right. Right.
Read, meet, and visit. That's right. That's right. Surround yourself with people who will give you the gumption to step up and be a leader. No, you're not going to.
You're not walking up to them. Not Michelle will get it, though. He's already buzzed too. Gumption? What?
Well, he did the, well, you did it at the beginning, but he did the, he did the ground birthday party. Is it gumption? Gumption. I'm going to count it.
Gumption. I'm going to count it as you didn't get away with it because we both knew instantly, even though we were out of buzzes. We were out. We were out of time.
I was trying to work it in and I was like, ah, I'm out of time. We need to find a better system. Like if you do that, this will happen. So we need to find that instead of just like, you can't do it.
Really, the clock was run down. I was like, I got it. I got to at least try.
I got to at least try. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow. Same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today Show.
Thanks again to Le Bleu Ultra Pure Water for sponsoring today's episode. And don't forget, you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen and you can always support us financially at ClearviewTodayshow.com. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow. Same time, same station. We'd love to see you there. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
