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The link is in the description. We are here in the studio with Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full time pastor, and the host of today's show, Dr. Shah. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. It's good to be here. Happy Tuesday. Happy Tuesday to you guys as well.
Happy Tuesday to our live studio audience as well. Yes. Yeah. I used to have a laugh. Oh yeah, I got a laugh on the laptop.
I appreciate you guys for that. Rolling on this silly, silly radio voice. And they all suddenly stopped laughing at the same time through sheer coincidence. It just happens, man.
It just happens. Our verse of the day today is coming to us from first John chapter one, verse seven. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ, his son cleanses us from all sin. You know, Dr. Shah, I think that's part of the Christian life that a lot of people forsake is this fellowship with one another. You know, we walk in the light, yes, to be closer to Jesus. But the point of being in a church, the point of being in this Christian brotherhood and sisterhood, I guess you could say as well, is that, you know, we do want fellowship with one another under the blood of Jesus.
It's not just me and Jesus. It's also a church family. First John is big on that, that fellowship aspect. And so if we are in the light, we will have fellowship with one another.
If we're fellowshipping with one another, more than likely we are in the light. So there is a mutual relationship there. That's right.
That's right. Dr. Shah, correct me if I'm wrong, but today, the seventh of January, is a very special day for you. I wonder why.
I wonder why that might be. Hey, Nick. Oh, I was going to see if Nick knew. Nick, do you know what January the seventh is, bud? No. I knew he didn't.
He wasn't going to know. Yeah, he does. Go ahead and say it.
Yeah, he does. It's our 30-year anniversary. 30-year anniversary. Congratulations. You and your wife.
Yeah, yeah, yes, and Nicole and ours. Happy anniversary, my friend. That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. 30 years married. That's exciting.
30 years ago, you know, about this time, I was very nervous. Really? Yeah, this was, and partly because I made the mistake of, well, well, Nicole made the mistake. Okay. Fair enough. The mistake was not me. The mistake was Nicole.
Fair enough. No, not about the marriage. Marriage was fine. The mistake was she told me that I have to be out of the house. Okay. Okay, so I was living in the basement at her parents' house.
Okay. Because, of course, she had a room, and her parents, you know, of course, they were upstairs and everything. But they allowed me to live in the basement for those couple of weeks, because college had ended, and, you know, I had nowhere to go.
Right. You were engaged. I was engaged. Oh, yeah, our wedding was coming up, everything.
When was two weeks away? So, but she said, no, you can stay here, but not on the wedding, the night before the wedding. You got to be gone.
The eve of the wedding. You cannot be in the house. Sure. So, I've been here in the basement for the past, since Christmas break. Right, right. Okay. Since Christmas break, I'm here. What is the big deal of this one night?
Right. Because, no, you cannot be here. You're going to see me in the wedding gown.
Somehow, you will happen to see me through a window or something. You cannot be here. I'm going to come in the basement, but I just can't have you in the house. You can't run the risk.
And I'm like, no, don't do that. Let me just stay here. I'm going to be downstairs. It would be easier for me. I can, you know, shave downstairs, get ready.
And the church is literally, you know, because this was a parsonage, I can walk to the church. Oh, yes. It's right there.
Life is great. Please just let me. It's like, no, no, no, no. And today, it was today, I would be like, no, I'm not going. Then I was like, she's like, no, you can't.
You cannot, it's just, you're going to mess it up. Was there a reason or was it, she was just scared? No, she didn't want me, she didn't want me to see her.
She wanted me to see the first time walking down the aisle. But if she had just not come in the basement, that wouldn't have been a problem. Yeah, she cannot.
I had to, you know, there's a special door to go down. There was no contact. Right, right.
But she didn't want to take the risk. So what ended up happening? So I asked, you know about this, right? No.
Okay. So I asked two of my friends from college. And one of them was my groomsman. And the other one was a friend who was going to help. I think he was helping film. I think he was helping out. Right. So I told him, I said, look, I'm going to kind of, you know, bunk with you guys, if that's okay.
Yeah, come on over, come on over. And that was a big mistake because they were idiots. I hope they're not listening. But anyways, I mean, now one is married.
The other one, I don't think is still married, but one is married, has kids, grown kids. I mean, it's great. But anyways, so then they're goofing off. The whole night? Yeah. You know, we finished our rehearsal dinner.
I got to their house by like 11 o'clock. So I laid down on the couch and I'm like, okay, I don't have a bed. I'm sleeping on the couch. And they're like joking, laughing. Carinone.
Carinone. Hey, Abaddon, you're going to blah, blah, blah. You're going to do that. You're going to, you're going to, what are you, what are you going to do with, you know, the money you have? Silly stuff. And I'm like, man, I'm trying to sleep.
Meanwhile, there's an empty bed in an empty basement that Nicole's not even, has no reason to go into. Yeah. Wow. And I didn't, and then, then I'm wide awake. They're asleep. By two o'clock, by two o'clock, they are asleep. We had, we had no reason to stay up until two, but they were just like talking. And then they came and jumped on me on the couch.
Golly. And they jumped on me and I'm like, seriously, we're going to do this tonight? Y'all should have more sense and given me a, a, a, what do you call the grooms? Like a bachelor party. That didn't do that.
They didn't do none of that. No, no, no. Just wanted to dog pile you while you trying to sleep on the couch before the wedding. On the night before the wedding.
This is, this is in lieu of the. All these years later, doesn't Nicole regret that? Does she feel bad at all?
I told her later on, I was like, that was a huge mistake. So here's what happens. I'm awake until like four or five o'clock in the morning. Oh no. And what time you had to get up? I got up at about six.
Come on, man. One hour of sleep. One hour of sleep.
Wow. Maybe, maybe two hours of sleep. If that I got up, got ready, went to McDonald's because I could have been in the basement.
Nicole's grandmother would have made me, you know. Yeah. Nice sausage. Sausage. Something.
Cause I'm sure they had all that. And so here I am at McDonald's sitting, I'm like, what, what is, this is not. Now I wanted to spend the wedding day.
This is not how you should be starting off your marriage. Well, anyway, God is with me. That's all matters. That's right.
Yeah. And it all worked out. I mean, it was great. I was tired as anything that night.
I bet. I was so tired. Do you even remember the wedding day? Did it just go in a big blur? I do remember the wedding day very well. I was very nervous. Really?
Very nervous. I can imagine. Well, it's your 30 year anniversary and I have a special gift for you, Dr. Shah. It's a million dollars.
And I'm really glad you told that story first because I feel like I know which way it's going to go. Million dollars. But for the next 10 years. I like money.
Money, money, money, money, money. For the next 10 anniversary dinners. I'm guessing for your anniversary tonight, y'all are going to go out and have something special. Well, for the next 10 anniversaries, you can only take Nicole to Taco Bell. For a million dollars? For a million dollars.
Absolutely I'll do it. Does what she did to you that day. Since she made me go. I was going to ask you if that makes, if that will feed into your decision. Yeah. It'll give me some kind of, what do you call it, catharsis? Yeah, a little bit of catharsis.
Having to deal with those two idiots. Because Nicole's kind of been living the good life. Like on your anniversary, you kind of go all out, take her out to the Cooper's Landing.
Bed and breakfast, all this stuff. For the next 10 years, million dollars, but you take her on your anniversary dinner to Taco Bell. You can't do another one later. That's it. You would do it?
Would you do it? Easy. Absolutely. Absolutely.
That's crazy. No problem. We've been married for 15 years. We can have Taco Bell at an anniversary dinner.
That's totally fine. Is it really 15 for you guys now? 15.
I think I would also do it as well. I think we're, this year will be our 10th. Nice. 2020, August will be our 10th. Really? Yeah, 10 years. Wow.
10, 15, 30. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's kind of cool. Wow. That's awesome.
Well, speaking of a million dollars, we've got a great topic today. That's right. Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clearview Today. Hey, Clearview Today listeners. Every day we invite you to join us in these conversations and explore the never-ending truth of God's word. And if you've been following the show for a while, if you feel like it's blessed you, and you believe in the mission we're on, we invite you to partner with us through your financial support.
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That's right. We appreciate every single one of you. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com.
If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right, Dr. Shah. Christmas is past us. It's behind us. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Don't say hate speech. No, no. I'm just saying the holiday festivities have sort of worn off. I'm holding on.
We're in January right now. I didn't wear it, but I should have wore it today for the episode. I'm in the watch club now. You've got a watch.
I do. Dr. Shah's got a watch. You've got a watch. I don't know if Nicholas wears one.
Yeah, he's got one. My sister... Now, those are all Apple Watch. My sister got me an analog watch.
Oh, nice. Is it a new style, wearing an analog watch now? No, I've always wanted to, and I just didn't have the confidence to do it, but I felt like when I dress up, I put the analog watch.
I should have wore it today for the episode, but here's the only problem. I need some healing in my life. I thought you were going to say, I can't read it. No, no, no. You need some helium? I need some healing in my life.
Oh. Healing? Healing, yes. Like, you need to heal. Like, stop. Yes, I need some spiritual... Like, heal.
Down boy. Oh, no. I need some spiritual healing in my life. I need some blessings. What I need to understand is that if you give your watch to the pastor, you're going to get some spiritual healing in your life. That's absolutely true. I know. Can I have it? That is correct, son.
Since I don't have it here, would you mind just giving him your watch real quick? Okay. Thank you.
Absolutely, yes. You healed. I want to... You have a healing. You have a healing. You have some healing in your life for David. David. Give him your watch.
You don't want no healing. David, give him the watch. Give him the watch anyway. Give me your watch now. Give him the watch. Give him the watch. Ooh.
I saw a TikTok that kind of explained this process that if you give your pastor a watch, if you even give him a car, you're going to get some healing in your life. Yeah. You told me about this. I mean, it's crazy. You want to see it? But it's not that crazy because knowing who it's coming from.
Yeah. I'm not even going to say the name. If you're listening, as soon as you hear the voice, I think you'll know who I'm talking about.
Who is this? Mylon, call me. He said, how many Brightlings do you have? Wait a minute.
What did he say? How many Brightlings do you have? Brightlings. Like, like the watch. Yeah. The expensive watch.
Very expensive. He said, how many Brightlings do you have? Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Pause it again. You're talking about, like, how many? Brightlings are expensive. Yeah.
Like if you have one Brightling, you're doing well. This is like, what, a couple thousand? Two thousand? Three thousand? It's 19,000. 10,000? The one I'm seeing here is 19,000.
Good gracious. Oh my goodness. There's one that's 10,000. Oh my gosh. I knew there were more than a Rolex, right? Yeah.
There's one that's 12,000. Just to clarify, we're not against people wearing Rolexes if you can't afford one. Go for it. God has blessed you. Wear a Brightling.
Wear 10 of them. I mean, that's not, that's not an issue. I think what Jon described to me in this video coming up is a different issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
This is not about you wearing expensive things. It's great to have a, you know, style or capability to do these things. Yeah. Go for it. That's no problem. I'd like to get to the place where I've got a Brightling because these look nice.
Brightling Chronomat B01, $9,500. You'll hear the problem here in just a second. Wow. Okay.
Yeah. And I said, I don't know, 36 I think. I haven't counted them lately.
And I have, in my closet, I have winders and there's a lot of them in there. He said, I'm going to give you number 37. I said, great, Mylon. Now he's believing God for his healing. There you go.
Whoa. Wait, wait, wait, wait. He's believing, the guy's believing God for his healing. So he gives this preacher, the Brightling. Why couldn't he give it to one of your congregation members who doesn't have a Brightling?
Why does he got to give it to you who has 36? Listen to this. Listen to this. This is even crazier. He said, I'm giving you my Bentley and it has a Brightling clock, whoa, a Bentley with a, Dr. Shah, I don't have a Bentley to give you, but can I interest you in a Volkswagen Tiguan?
I need some healing in my life. How much is a Bentley? Let's see.
At least a hundred thousand. Right. Got to be easy. Easy.
Bentley is, Bentley is, let's see, just the first one I'm pulling up. It's gotta be at least a hundred and twenty five. You can't even find it. You can't even find a price on these on. Really? Yeah. Yeah. How much is a Bentley? Like I can see what it is. The problem here is neither with owning a... Two hundred thousand.
Two hundred thousand. Yeah. Okay.
The problem is not with owning a Bentley or a, what is it, what's the watch company? Brightling. Brightling. Yeah.
Brightling. No, that's not the problem. The problem is what he said, that this man was going to give this preacher his watch in his car because he was believing God for a miracle or a healing. Where does that belief come from?
Who, like, like I understand in this situation, he probably was told that by his pastor, that if you bless the pastor, if you give me your stuff, God is going to heal you. But where does this, this prosperity gospel actually come from? It's about sowing the seed. It's about sowing the seed and then reaping the harvest. So if I sow the seed, apparently this man is sowing the seed by giving it to this pastor. And he's going to then reap the harvest of whatever he's hoping for. Maybe it's a physical miracle from a sickness.
Maybe it's a miracle in the sense of a healing of a relationship or something else. Who knows? Or maybe some business that is going under. Apparently this man is wealthy. If what this preacher is saying is the truth, then this man is wealthy.
Maybe some business is collapsing. So the healing, maybe that, I don't know what he means by that. Is it a physical healing or is it a financial healing or is it relational healing? But nonetheless, he is sowing the seed in his ministry and then he'll be able to reap the rewards.
Okay. So that was my question. Is this actually like formally taught? If you give these things to the pastor, to the preacher, to the figurehead, then that healing or that prayer will be answered. Is that the pathway or is it just kind of surrendering it to God?
What is the framework there? I see what you're saying because I think it's easy and we're kind of being facetious. It's easy to pick on like Kenneth Copeland's and Jesse Duplantis' and Joel Osteen's and all these guys. But is there any like prosperity gospel out there where they say, if you give your money to the poor, if you help other people, God will bless you. Or is it always you have to bless me? No, it's got to come back to them.
Okay. It's got to come back to them. It's not enough to say I'm sending 30 missionaries to China or to India or to Africa or to Europe or South America.
No, it's about in the ministry, in their coffers. So now you will be blessed. And there's a huge problem with that.
I mean, on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin. And the thing I wanted to ask you, you preached on this, not on this topic, but you mentioned it in a sermon the other day. This was really popular. I'm sure you've heard this in the, I'm guessing late 80s, early 90s, like kind of 2000s.
Late 80s, mid 80s, late 80s, early 90s, mid 90s. This was a big thing. But there are signs that the prosperity gospel's influence is starting to become prominent again.
Like it's starting to circle back around. Based on the status of report by Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary or university on Christianity, that yes, Christianity globally is rising. The number is rising, but unfortunately this prosperity gospel is also growing.
Wow. I guess the thing that I can't understand, and maybe you can kind of help me understand, because I've been learning a lot, even through hosting the show with you guys, about how different people think about doctrine. To me, if someone were saying, if you give me your money, God is going to bless you. To me, that just, there's instant red flags.
Like, that's like, I don't think that's true. And I don't know if that's, that's like, there's a biblical place they're pulling that from, but instantly like alarms start going off. Like it feels very much like don't send money to the Nigerian prince. Yeah. It seems obvious.
It seems like a scam. It seems obvious. And yet there's millions of people who are like, that's the way you have to do it. How do you get into, I don't want to use the word brainwash, but how do you get into that mindset? One is theological and one is economical.
Theological, there is a doctrinal system. I hate to even use the word doctrine with it because it's such an aberrant belief system that glorifies a prosperous life as the good life, as the life that God blesses. So if you have all the blessings that God promised ancient Israel, land flowing with milk and honey and all of that, that you can appropriate those blessings for your life. And so pray for that, you know, the prayer of Jabez, if you expand, you know, all that.
And yes, prayer of Jabez is wonderful. And I think we should pray that prayer as a model for us. But it's not just about financial wealth. Now, if God blesses you financially, that's great.
But I think in this situation, this is sow the seed so you can reap the harvest. And that is not, how can you preach that to those poor believers who are living in some difficult countries in the world, who through no fault of their own are struggling? They believe in God.
They trust God. But you now know that the system is such right now that they will not in their lifetime have any wealth. Forget about a Bentley. They won't even be able to buy a cheap, you know, a digital watch. Forget about Apple watches.
I'm talking about just a cheap, you know, those old Walmart plastic watches. They can't even afford that. So there are people who struggle and this gospel does not work for them. So there's a problem there. Also with this kind of a lifestyle, there's a lot of mishandling that comes, a lot of misappropriation of funds that happens, taking advantage. I mean, you know, you go back to the 80s, you know, you meet the Pat Bakers, you know, the Jimmy Swigert type people. And I know they're back on the air doing their thing, but it was not good the way they did and took advantage of a lot of people. And it's not just they took advantage of believers, but they also heard the testimony of the gospel. The gospel keeps moving, okay? That's the power of the gospel.
But they did heard the testimony of the gospel. And then in the 90s, oh my goodness, when I first came to America, I saw the Robert Tiltons and others getting on, I mean, if you want to find a quick video of Robert Tilton up there and just, you know, talking to people and getting them to give money and all the faces he would make and all the expressions he would have and all of that, oh my, it was a big joke. Wow. It surprises me that this has kind of come back around because with all of the, I mean, now with everything that's available to us through YouTube, through Google, through internet research, all of this evidence that, you know, the prosperity gospel led to all of these things like scandals and misappropriation of funds, it feels like if people had a modicum of sense, they would use the tools that are at their disposal to refute this stuff. Yeah. Well, it also is like, there's a way where people like these people, not people who are at the top, but people on the bottom, like Dr. Shaw was talking about, they want relief.
Right. You know, they want reassurance. And I'm wondering if that's, what's really at the heart of this.
It feels like at the heart of it, there's like, there needs to be some explanation these people are looking for, for all the hurt and sickness in their life. And it offers like a false promise. Yes, it does.
It does. Prosperity gospel is also a false gospel. Again, I'll also say this. I am not against Christians having the good life, you know, sometimes like David mentioned in a previous show, persecution is glorified in the West. And I don't agree with that. I'm like, you know, you really haven't experienced true persecution, hence you're saying it's great.
That's right. That's what purifies the church. You haven't been through it. It also destroys the church.
So we got to be careful. So I'm not going to say, you know, owning a Breitling or a Bentley is evil and you are, you know, how can you wear those watches and drive those cars when people are hungry? I don't buy that argument. Right. So I'm not promising you to be able to do that by all means do it.
But this way of give to me so you'll be that, that I think is a completely contrary to the word of God. I agree. I agree. I mentioned Robert Tilton.
So here's one that is coming from that time period of the nineties, I believe. That word's not for everyone, but it's a particular person. You should have moved a long time ago and you're missing it and your family is suffering by it. That word, as surely as I'm speaking by the spirit of God, that is a word for a person right now. That is God penetrating your heart.
It's burning on the inside of you and you need to make a vow of faith of a thousand dollars. Oh Bob, couldn't you say twenty-five? No!
You've never seen him on TV? We used to make fun of these guys. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
Because they're asking people to give like that to them. Yeah. I mean, this is sales and the people do it.
Yeah. When people are desperate because their daughter is going off the deep end or their son is on drugs or their marriage is on the rocks or they're broke and they've lost their job. So they're trying to, it's like playing the lottery, hoping this will, this will come back to them.
You know what? I'm glad you said that. And I'm glad you made that point because I used to think, and I think sometimes I'm still tempted into thinking that, man, people who give to this must be really idiotic. They're not idiotic. They're desperate. They're desperate. People like this take advantage of their desperation.
Now, the previous video that we looked at where the man is saying, you know, give me, you're going to give me your Bentley or giving me your Breitling and, you know, the people who are sitting in the audience, they seem like they're well to do. Yeah. Yeah. And they very well may be, but they are coming from the same mindset, the same aberrant heretical doctrinal system.
So they support this. Ah, you've used that word twice. Aberrant? Yeah. Is that really? Is that the secret word? No.
No, but I'm going to give myself. Why? Because I said modicum. You know, I thought about modicum. I thought about modicum, but when he said aberrant twice, I was like, that's gotta be the secret word. No, I'm like, I'm bringing aberrant. Aberrant is right.
All my. No, he's right. But he said it twice. Yeah. Yeah.
That's what I thought. I'm bringing all my vocabulary. This bad theology. I heard modicum, but I thought that was a word that you might use aberrant. I would, I would use modicum, but that was the secret word. Well, you got the secret word. Good.
Congratulations. Dr. Shye will give myself the womp womp of shame. The womp womp of shame. But I mean, it, it, it makes it all the more, not just bad criminal because they're, they're preying on people's desperation. They're preying on people's just their, their hopelessness and their desire for any they're grasping at straws. And I mean, these are, these are swindlers, they're con men. And as I mentioned a few moments ago, the theological and the economical, when, when the economy is down, when people are struggling financially, what happens is they, they're grasping at straws, trying to find some way to put money in their bank account or trying to find some way to pay their bills.
So this kind of a theological system, or whatever you want to call it, bad theology rises in desperate times. Right? So, so I am looking forward to 2025, I believe the economy is already changing. And thank, thank God for the elections and President Trump and the mindset with which he operates, especially regarding business and, and economy and taxes and all that.
I think it's going to help our economy tremendously. And hopefully in a roundabout way, we'll deal with such garbage beliefs. Yeah.
Cause there won't be, there won't be the, the, the same level of desperation, the desperation that I don't want to say cause for it, but the desperation that breeds it. Yeah. Yeah. Great point. Yeah.
Great point. Such a great show. So helpful for us, especially in light of what's happening in culture and what the surges on social media today where Prosperity Gospel is seeing a resurgence. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow. Same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clear Read Today show. Thanks again to Mighty Muscadine for sponsoring today's episode. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. If you want to re listen or share it with a loved one and you can always support us financially on Clear Read Today show. That's right.
That's right. John, what do you want to plug as we end the show today? So definitely want to plug 30 days of praying for America by Dr. Abaddon Shah and his wife Nicole is available on Amazon right now. You can also pick up our debut worship album, Heaven Here and Now. Also working on some new original music as well.
You can pick that up on Spotify or iTunes, anywhere that digital music is streamed or sold. That's right. Make sure you guys jump into the conversation tomorrow. Lots of fun to be had. Maybe another secret word coming your way. We'll see what the day holds. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear Read Today.
