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Absolutely nothing less than five stars. And we are here once again in the Clear View Today studio with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, who's a Ph.D. in New Testament Textual Criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full time pastor and the host of today's show. Dr. Shaw, welcome, my friend. So good to see you.
Hey, good to be here. I got to tell you guys, I am really full. We had we had a fantastic lunch.
I'll tell you what. Read the first of the day before I go into the lunch because I want to talk about this. Let's let's feed upon the word after we've fed upon. There you go. Verse of the day today is coming to us from Matthew, chapter 12, verse 18. Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased.
I will put my spirit upon him and he will declare justice to the Gentiles. Mm hmm. Thank goodness he did.
Yes. I think about that. Very grateful for that. Very, very grateful for that. Thank you for that one, Lord. I you know, I think about that all the time, how he says that the salvation was first for the Jewish people and then for the Gentiles. But then also like the the foresight that God had that he always knew that this would be the case. You know, there's his special people that he loves. But then to open the door for the entire world to come to know him, especially right here at Christmas, I think that always kind of just warms my heart to know that we were always on God's mind. And that door being opened to to welcome us in.
It's it's this mix of gratefulness and just awe at who he is. You know what I mean? Well, I would say the door was never closed. Right. The door was always there. But the pattern was you go through God's people to get to God. OK, that was the medium through which the lost world could come to Christ.
So there were people already who were God worshippers. I mean, we think about Moses's father in law, Jethro, who was who was out there worshipping the living God. You think about Melchizedek. I was just about to ask if Melchizedek was a Jewish, was a Jewish.
Well, you know, I mean, no, I mean, Abraham wasn't Jewish either. Oh, yeah, true. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough.
Fair enough. I mean, he's a father of... Timelines are funny things. I'll tell you who did that to me. That was Nicole's dad. When I first met him, you know, we were talking about something like, do you think Abraham was Jewish?
I was like, of course. He's like, well, remember his son was Isaac and maybe Ishmael. But then Isaac had Jacob and Esau and then Jacob had the 12 tribes and one of them was Judah from where the Jewish people came. Like, oh, yeah, in that sense, no, Abraham was not Jewish. So Melchizedek definitely was not Jewish. But Melchizedek was a king of Salem and Salem was the city before the Jebusites made it Jebus. And but he was worshipping God there.
Right. He brought bread and wine to Abraham. I mean, that's a clear reference to the cup and the and the bread. So, yeah, they're worshipping God. So all that to say, yeah, the door was never closed, but they had to go through a certain door.
And God's people were the doors to bring the outside world to the living true God. I'm just I don't know why I'm going to I'm going to go ahead and patent this now since nobody listen to the radio steals it, but the doors. That's a fantastic album. That's a fantastic worship album. I mean, it's a band already. It's a band.
It's a band. Isn't that already? And I'm sure they will. I'm sure they won't sue.
I'm sure they will definitely be. Tell me the doors is not the greatest album. It is a great album you've ever heard, because there's so many different doors that you go through in life. And then there's the door. Yeah. Yeah.
Leland has a song called The Door, but I'm sure he won't mind if we if we name. Oh, yeah. OK, so was that the best steak lunch you guys ever had or what? It was delicious.
That was fantastic. Can I give Dole a shout out? Absolutely.
Here, Dole my friend. Good to eat your steak my friend. So can you explain the steak lunches that we do in December? Sure.
Be glad to. So years ago, I would say maybe eight to 10 years ago, maybe longer. I don't know. We started doing steak lunches for our first responders. Right. So one day we'll have the entire sheriff's department that will come. Now, some of them cannot leave their post because they are they are at the local county jail.
Right. But others will come and take them boxes of the meal. And then we just give them free books.
The books that I have written, Nicole has written. We just share the love of Christ with them. Many of them know the Lord.
Some don't. But this is our way to tell them thank you. Another day, the police department. Another day, our city fire. Another day, our county fire. Sometimes smaller departments like EMS, 911, wildlife, state troopers, you know, park rangers.
And I'll combine them in one animal control. We bring them all. So this is our way of saying thank you to those who are our first responders.
And today was our city fire and our state troopers and animal control. So we were sitting there. I was I was not super hungry.
So I was like, you know what? I'm not going to steak right now. I'm going to give me a steak for later.
I put it put in the box. I'm gonna give me this little baked potato. I opened that potato up and I don't know what it was, but something about the way it just opened up the steam rolling off of it. I put some butter on top of it and I saw that thing just started melting. It looked like a commercial. Delicious. And that potato, I feel like was like the size of my head.
It was really enormous. But I'm sitting so pretty right like like the last thing I want to do is sit here and record a radio show. Not that I don't love y'all, but man, I'm going to go to sleep right now. Yeah. But that was the best steak lunch I've ever had in my entire life. Here's my thing. They're ribeyes, right? Yeah. Do you guys like the fat on your steak? Do y'all like? I did a lot at one time. I don't now because that's cholesterol. Yeah.
Yeah. But at one time that was great, man. I loved it. I saw Katie. I saw Katie cutting hers up. And she I thought Katie would eat anything like Katie would eat like wild possum, wild raccoon.
No problem at all. She was like cutting the fat off with her. I was like, Katie, you don't like the fat? She was like, I don't know. And I was like, yeah, I don't really like it either.
But I didn't know because I know you really love it. And I didn't know if you like it when it's marbled through there. But like when it's just like a chunk of fat hanging on the side, I'm going to cut that off.
I was talking to I won't I won't say any names, but I was talking to an individual in our church and I was telling them about that a while back. And I was like, yeah, I like steak a lot. I just really don't love the fat. And a lot of times when you go to eat steak at someone's house or they serve you steak, there's a lot of fat in it. He said, just get a filet.
There's almost no fat. I was like, oh, OK. Yeah, shoot. I didn't know that. He didn't tell me that filet is like 10 times the price of a steak. So I went to I went to Texas Roadhouse and ordered it without looking at the price. And I'm telling you, it was a great steak. I'm not going to lie.
Almost no fat at all. But the bill came. I'm not allowed in like it.
Yeah, you can pay for it. Pick out the steak right in Texas Roadhouse. They have the steak right up front in the in the in the display.
You don't pick out these things. I've never done that. I know you can, but I've never done that. Yeah, it's kind of like Red Lobster, like you go pick out your lobster. I never I never did that. No. Yeah. Would you do it at Red Lobster where you pick?
I want to eat that guy. I have done it back in the day. I've I hate to say it. I mean, I haven't been to Red Lobster in a while.
It is not great. It's gone down a little bit. Yeah, I would. I think we went maybe a couple of years ago. Yeah. Nicole and I just went decided to go.
I think somebody gave us a gift card and we went. But you look your lobster in the line. So that's the one. OK, into the pot you go. Oh, mercy. You hear that song from Little Mermaid, like the Sebastian song. And he sings like it's going to be hot in my big silver pot.
No clue what the chef sings. Anyway, no idea what you're talking about right there. Don't go anywhere, guys. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more clear view today. A clear view today, family. Thank you so much for tuning in to the show.
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All right. Let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at Clear View today show dot com.
If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to two five two five eight two five zero two eight. Dr. I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry. I thought I thought he was going to keep going. And I was I was like, Dr. That's right. We got a fantastic show. We need to put a little bell where you're done talking.
You just think that we got a fantastic show today talking about salvation. You know, this is something that people disagree on a lot. This is something that people always want to clarify. I was on TikTok earlier this week and I saw this clip of the man, the myth, the legend himself. I know this is a guy. This is a big guy. It was Dr. Shah.
Yeah. This is actually Mr. Adrian Rogers. Dr. Adrian Rogers. Dr. Adrian Rogers.
I don't want to show no disrespect. Dr. Shah gave me a book many years ago called Ten Things Every Christian Ought to Know about Adrian Rogers. And I had been a Christian for a long time.
What did you say? Ten things every Christian ought to know about. Adrian Rogers? It was by Adrian Rogers. I thought you said Ten things every Christian ought to know about Adrian Rogers.
These are facts about his life. I might have said that if I said that. Maybe I'm just hearing wrong.
I might have said it, but it's by Adrian Rogers. But anyway, yes, I read it and it was very, very eye opening. And it's crazy how you can be a Christian for a lot of years and still not be fully caught up on the fundamentals. And one of them was salvation.
Dr. Shah, a lot of people and maybe we can talk about this before we play the clip. But a lot of people have that anxiety about their salvation. Maybe you can lose it. Maybe there's some loophole or some technicality that when I'm standing before the pearly gates, I'm going to get kicked out or I'm going to, you know, I didn't know about this one thing. Maybe I was mistaken. I never truly actually meant it. Right.
And have you ever talked to people who were worried, like, I'm afraid I really may not be saved? Yes. So there's a difference between eternal security and perseverance of the saints.
OK. There are people who will say, who think they're one and the same and they're not. Perseverance of the saints is that a saint, a person who loves the Lord, will to the end persevere. Means they will come back.
No matter how far they go off, they will come back. Now, I know there are nuances there and I know there are people who have said, no, that's not what it really means. OK. But that's what they really are implying.
Eternal security means once you're saved, you're saved forever. Right. Don't equate those two.
OK. They're two different things. They're related and yet different things. So perseverance of the saints means you may drift away. You may drift away to the point that you may not come back and God may have to take you home. Now, do we ever find examples of that in the Bible?
Yes, we do. Paul talks about that to the Corinthians. He says to them, you know, that's the reason why some of you are weak and some of you are asleep. Remember, they were taking the Lord's Supper and they were being flippant about it and they were doing things very selfishly, greedily, gluttonous people trying to eat and have a good time while others were waiting out in the lobby.
OK. So Paul says, you know, this is the reason why some of you are sick and some of you are even dead. Also, if you read, I think it's the book of James talks about if anyone is overtaken in trespassing, he who turns this person saves his soul from death. Right. So what is that death? That's not eternal death. That is a death in the sense of losing your life.
Right. The Lord more or less has had enough and he's going to call you home. You're better off here than you're down there. Come on here. Come on.
Look at all your sins. Now look again. Now come on. Got you by the earlobe. Do you want to watch this clip and see which one Dr. Rogers is talking about? Sure.
All right, let's do it. You see, that's that's what mess Nicodemus up begin with. He said, I can't have a second birth. And and Jesus is saying, that's right, Nicodemus, you cannot be born physically twice. And friend, you can't be born spiritually twice. There's only one birth in every realm. I defy you to show me anywhere in the Bible where anybody was ever saved twice. You can't find it any more than you could ever find in the physical realm where anybody had two physical births. You can never find where anybody's had two spiritual births. A birth is a once in a lifetime experience.
It is a completion. And when you are born, you are born into the family of God. Now, you may get out of fellowship in the natural realm and you may get out of fellowship in the spiritual realm. But I never when I got out of fellowship with my father, I never ceased to be his child. You get out of fellowship with your heavenly father.
He will chastise you, but he will never disown you. First and foremost, did you see that stage? He had that stage looking nice. Yeah. Yeah. That's back in the 90s. Yeah. That was incredible.
Yeah. Adrian Rogers was more than just a preacher. He was also very good at organizing. He was very good at publicity.
He was very good at making his environment look good. I mean, you know, Bellevue Baptist Church, when he came there, it was like maybe 9000 went to 29000 people. Wow. And this is not in Dallas. This is not in New York City. This is not in Houston. This was in Memphis, Tennessee. Wow.
Memphis is a big city, but 29000 people? Yeah. That's that's incredible. Yeah.
That's an incredible growth. So going back to Adrian Rogers' statement there, what he's saying there is more in line with eternal security. Perseverance of the Saints is something different. Right. Now, there is something else we need to add to this discussion, which is the Lordship issue. Adrian Rogers, by the way, believed in the Lordship salvation. Could you just kind of refresh us on what that is?
It means that when you receive Christ as your savior, you're also receiving him as your Lord. OK. Which I don't disagree with. Right. Right. Except there are some things in life that you're still learning to relinquish and give over to God. Some things are automatic, immediate.
Some things take time. Lordship salvation, people will say, if you're not giving that up right now, then you need to go back and examine your salvation. Again, there are people who will disagree with me on that and say, no, no, no. That's not what we are saying. And we believe in the Lordship salvation. There are nuances. There are degrees of how much people believe in Lordship salvation. I would say the extreme kind will say, if he's not Lord of all, he's not Lord at all. So, well, that is kind of catchy.
If that were true, I would like that. But that's kind of catchy. So I'll give you an example. Maybe you can kind of tell me what they would say. Because I remember when I got saved, it was some things were pretty easy to give up. You know, some things that that I was doing, I was like, and not easy, but it's like, OK, I didn't really struggle with it that much. Cursing was really hard.
Cussing, cleaning up my language and stopping the cussing was tough. I would say it was about maybe a year, year and a half after I got saved that I really felt like, OK, I don't have any desire to cuss anymore. Would they say for that year and a half, hey, you might not have been saved.
You might not be saved right now. You need to check that out. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. True Lordship salvation. People will say you did not surrender all. Do you need to be sinless when you get saved? It's not about sinlessness as much as completely surrendering to God. OK. But yeah, it definitely overlaps.
So it's more a heart issue, they would say. That was what I was going to ask you is like, what do you do with the sanctification, like the process of becoming more Christlike in life? But you're saying it doesn't have as much to do with sin as just your desire.
Yeah. OK. And I would say, you know, yes, I get it. But that's where we begin to sort of drift into the other box, which is you may not be saved unless you are completely done with sin. Oh, we're not believing in sinless perfection.
All I'm saying is, is he truly the master of your life? And again, I would say, well, what is the test? The test is all this has to be relinquished, right? Right. Yeah.
But I'm not saying being sinless. So they will they will, you know, haggle about the nomenclature. Gotcha. But I would still come back to that there is an issue there. Yeah.
I'm going to I'm going to test nomenclature. Nope. That's yours. OK. OK. And no, I'm saying that that was just from you. Yeah. OK. OK. OK. I knew nomenclature was a was a kind of what do I get to take away from him? You want my jacket?
I think my sister's going to get an Apple watch for Christmas. His pride. That's right.
That's gone. I get to give myself a winner. So time to time I'm going to throw these in there.
And if I have a lot of them, then you have to I don't know, get me a cup of coffee. Did you get the word or is it or did you even have the word to just have to just have to find out. So so being saved, you know, I think a lot of people, like I said earlier, a lot of people do have that anxiety. Like there's going to be some loophole. I just know it because the stakes are so eternal.
I know I'm really worried there's going to be some loophole, something I didn't know or something I didn't do. And how do you how do you counsel people like that? You know, how do you encourage them? It's tough. Now, there are some people who are kind of on the soft side of things and they just have a soft heart.
I get it with them. I can sort of help them understand, hey, God loves you. He loves you before you could even love him. So this love is one sided.
You simply have to now love him back the rest of your life. So don't think that God will take over his love because you sinned or you lost your way or you did something bad or you're doubting. God doesn't say, you know what? You're not saved anymore.
Just like what Adrian Rogers said. You were born once physically in the natural realm. You're also born one spiritually in the in the spiritual realm.
There is no double born. So going back to our conversation about those three things. Perseverance of the saints, eternal security, lordship, salvation. Those are some issues that we have to then decide. Where do we stand on them? Sinless perfection can also fall into that discussion. You know, before I keep saying this on the show, but I think it's really important to say sometimes we have new listeners coming in. But I didn't realize that there were Christians who think that they are sinless, that they can't sin.
It's not in them. I didn't think that was a real belief system, you know, and I've learned that not only is it a real belief system, but people truly will stake their lives on it. I knew a a pastor who was I wouldn't want to say the denomination because then it sort of become obvious who I'm referring to. But he was big on sinless perfection. Wow. That that surprises me because I live with myself. I know my own inner dialog and all the thoughts and things and feelings that I have. I can't imagine looking in the mirror and saying, yeah, sinless.
Yeah. And I can't imagine and I can't imagine like I can imagine lying and hiding it and saying I'm sinless. But like when you really to have to actually believe it, I don't understand.
Because when you have those sinful thoughts, do you just say God gave me that thought so it's righteous? I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question.
You know, that's those are the arguments we use to tell them, no, you're not right. And they will go back to the motive, the heart and those kind of things. Gotcha. Yeah. So they find a way to wiggle out.
Yeah. So lordship salvation. Let me say a word about that, because some of the Puritans really struggle with it, especially on the deathbeds. They didn't know for sure they were saved because they're struggling with issues and they didn't know why they're struggling with these issues. If they're truly believers, they should not be struggling.
There should be a radical change in their hearts, whatever, whatever. So they struggle with that. Right. So bringing in lordship salvation, which is also related to the perseverance of the saints, is problematic.
Yeah. Something you said earlier that stood out to me and I think should be highlighted is that I think in the conversation like this, we can forget that God loves us. You know what I mean? Like if he truly loves us, like my father loves me, like you love your kids, like you love your kids. You're not going to wait for them to get to the finish line so you can trick them. He's not going to wait and be like, well, I kept waiting for you to figure it out and you never did. Like he's going like if he if you truly believe that God loves you, that's not something that should even be that you should even be worried about.
You know, if he if he's given you his word that you are his. Right. Then you should rest in that. To me, salvation is like an awakening. It's an awakening. So once your eyes are open, how can you then say my eyes are closed again?
Yeah. Imagine walking into this room that is full of treasures. You walk in and you see everything. Let's say you're no longer deserving.
So go outside because we did something bad. Right. Do you ever unsee what you saw? Good point.
You can leave the room. But you will never unsee that right. Salvation to me is the opening of the eyes.
Whether you appropriate the treasure and use the riches of Christ in your daily life, that's up to you. That's a good that's a good illustration. I like that. That's very original, by the way. Is it really? Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's awesome.
It's not ubiquitous. I'm not going to do it. What should I take from him? He was daring me with his eyes to do it. I surrender my glasses. I'll take them. I like that. I like the I like the whole like you can you can choose to do you can choose to use these riches or you can choose not to. Is that where you stand where like once you're saved, you're always saved. But you may drift and you may and the Lord may take you.
You may not enjoy the riches that God has given to you. I mean, that is the Christian life. Right. Right. Do you think we over and maybe maybe I'm not wording this correctly, but do you think we over prioritize going to heaven? That's the only thing I care about. That's all that's all I really want. I like I get I hear you.
I might live terrible in this life, but as long as I go to heaven, I'm OK. Right. Do you think Christians over prioritize that?
Some sectors will probably do that. Yeah. And kind of negate their life here on earth. That's why, you know, we did the series. And of course, our music album. Yes. Heaven Here and Now does not mean that there is no heaven coming. Oh, we if if I were to call my position, give a name to my eschatological position, it'll be new creation eschatology. I'm working towards that new creation that God has prepared for us. So that is that is the name of my my view.
New creation eschatology. Well, is that original? No. OK. It is it is there, but it has some uniqueness that I hope to to flesh out. Yeah.
And in the months ahead. Nice. But that includes living in this life, enjoying this creation, living it to the max so that we can enjoy and live in the new creation. New heavens, new earth to the max. That's right.
That's right. Make sure you pick up that album, by the way. It's available right now on Spotify and Amazon and iTunes. But that's that's truly the heart of that album.
All of those songs were prayerfully written by myself, Dr. Shah, David, some some of the other guys on the team. But a lot of it, I would say all of it is with that view that, yes, heaven is coming, but also you have an entire life to live right here. Heaven begins now.
It's not just a one day reality. Heaven. Heaven life starts now. That's what Jesus said.
That's right. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow. Same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on The Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to Le Blue Ultra Pure Water for sponsoring today's episode. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. If you want to re-listen or if you want to share with a friend or family member, that is a great way to do that as well.
And you can support us financially at Clearview Today Show dot com. We talked about the album, but anything else you want to plug? Well, before we do, I do got to find out what was the secret word? Did the secret word ever get said? Did anybody have a secret word? Did you send a secret word? You sent a secret word? I mean, was it to me or did I have the secret word? I didn't have the secret word.
I mean, it's it's up to you guys to wonder what was it? Was it ubiquitous? What was the secret word? I don't know. It wasn't ubiquitous.
It wasn't. Did you say it? I mean, like like like a constituent part? Yeah, there it is. I'm going to give it to him, though. Hold on one second.
Constituent? I didn't get it. I just saw it, by the way. That's OK. Very well.
There's your secret word for the day. OK, a couple of things before we go. Number one, Prayer Vigil is coming up. We're going to be live streaming on January 3rd from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. You can call into the show to five to five, eight to five, zero to eight, and we will pray with you online. We'll also be be here at the church praying for 24 straight hours.
So make sure you tune into that live stream. Number two, Dr. Shah's book, 30 days. Dr. Shah and Nicole's book, I should say 30 days of praying for America, daily devotions to heal our nation. Also want to announce that there's a new one in the works. Stay tuned. We're going to be talking about it here in a little bit when we get some more details. And number three, the album that Dr. Shah mentioned earlier, Heaven Here and Now is by Clearview Worship. A lot of songs written by us and by Dr. Shah. Make sure you pick that up.
It's on iTunes, Spotify and anywhere digital music is sold. That's right. Make sure you guys jump in the conversation tomorrow. Lots of fun to be had. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
