What's going on guys? This is David here, the world's best radio engineer and the most humble, and I'm just here to let you know that today's episode of Clearie Today Show and today's secret word is brought to you by Lebleu Ultra Pure Water. Unlike other bottled waters, Lebleu's Ultra Pure filtration system provides water that's free from contaminants and infused with only the essentials your body needs. Make the smart choice today and experience the difference of Lebleu Ultra Pure Water.
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That's an erratic or unpredictable action or notion. And today's secret word contestant is Ryan. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You can find us online at Clear View Today Show dot com. If you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028 or you can email us at contact at Clear View Today Show dot com.
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You ain't gonna know the difference. Yeah, we're live for sure. We're here with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism. Dr. Shah, welcome to the show. It's good to be here. I'm excited. I'm excited for today's show.
It's going to be a good show. The verse of the day today is coming to us from Philippians chapter 1, verse 29. For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for his sake. I don't want to suffer for his sake. Well, I want to suffer for his sake, but I don't want to suffer. You know, there's so few of us who have anything in, and I'm just talking about humans in general, just people. So few people have anything in their lives that are worthy of like dying or suffering for. But I love that we have reason for both because we know that at the end of the day, our lives are going to be caught up with Christ's victory.
Well, I love that you've reminded us of that often, both personally and from the pulpit, Dr. Shah, that suffering in the Christian life isn't pointless. It's not some vagary. It is pointing to... No, you're not getting away with that.
You're not getting away with that. What in the world was that? Vagary? Vagary. Uh-uh. No way. An erratic manifestation. Nah, cuz.
Vagary. Do this game. Yeah, the secret word is...
The secret word is skittin'. It's either... We hit like expert level or something. Have you ever been playing a game and you're like, the difficulty spike is too extreme? Halo is really bad about that. Halo, if you play Halo on heroic, it's like, okay, this is kind of fun. It's a challenge.
I was like, what in the world is this? If you bump it up to legendary, it's like unplayable. And I think that's what's happening with the secret word.
The difficulty spike is too extreme. Vagary is an erratic, unpredictable, or extravagant manifestation, action, or notion. Vagary. So suffering in the Christian life is not a vagary.
It's a point, because there's a point to it, because it points us to who Christ is and how suffering makes us more like him. How is Dr. Schagl comment on the verse? I don't know. I have no idea. I have to quickly pull up my dictionary app.
Vagary. It mistyped. No, it's not doing it. You shouldn't be using the secret word if when you type it in, it tries to autocorrect it. No, but the word that I like to kind of focus on for a quick second is when it says there, if I can pull that up in the Greek here, Greek helps us tremendously. Oh, very much. When you see the same thing in Greek, it is very helpful. So it says, for to you, it has been granted on behalf of Christ.
So the word there for granted is an interesting word. Let me see if I can pull up here. I'm trying to get the... It's the word euchariste. Okay. Am I right on that?
I think I am. And it's coming from the Greek word karizomai, which means grant as a favor. It means in kindness or to do something pleasant or agreeable to somebody. It's not like he was granted to you out of a business deal or some sort of like arrangement.
This is to help you. So when Paul says for you, to you, it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for his sake. So suffering is God doing us a favor. And that sounds so oxymoronic to think of suffering as a favor.
But think about that. We grow through suffering. We find God's grace poured upon us when we suffer a lot.
That's right. So suffering is not something that God is allowing us to go through or something that God is aware of and has happened to us. And he is like, I want to help you, but, you know, my hands are kind of tired right now. You know, so many things I have to move to get this thing out of your life. So, you know, just hang in there.
You know, I'm doing my best. No, suffering is something that God has granted to us as a favor. That's right.
That's right. Because suffering is how we grow. I know I was going to say, I know a lot of Christians love to use this verse. And I love this verse a lot where it says Romans 8, 28, where God works everything together for good. And I used to think, you know, immaturely about suffering, where suffering is just something I got to grit my teeth and get through. It's a test of my faith that I can endure.
But it's not. And I love the way that you put that, because it's not about enduring. It's about knowing that God's going to work it for my benefit.
Absolutely. I'm going to get something good out of this suffering. He is doing you a favor to allow you to go through what you're going through.
That's right. It may be a physical problem. It may be a financial need. It may be some relationship struggle. It may even be a spiritual, a time of spiritual darkness. You know, God's people went through spiritual darkness. Even Jesus went through that time in the Garden of Gethsemane where he felt all alone. He felt like he has to do something that he really doesn't want to do. And yet he feels there is no way out.
You may feel that way. But even there, God sent his angel to strengthen him. And he comes back and says, I will drink this cup if that's what you want me to do. Not my will, but yours be done. And in the process, think about it. Because he went through that suffering, we have forgiveness. We have hope. We have eternal life.
So I want to encourage our listeners, our viewers, to remember whatever you're going through, it's not just something to endure or get through it or question God and wonder what's happening. It is a gift to you. Amen.
Amen. It's a gift. I hate to follow this up with this, but I promised my parents that I would bring this up on the show. They saw you on TV.
Yes, they did. They saw you on TV. So my mom, when we had Thanksgiving dinner, I've been meaning to bring this up on the show. When we had Thanksgiving dinner, my mom was like, Lord, I was in there cooking. I was making them deviled eggs. And I heard Pastor Sean in the living room.
I said, what in the world? And I ran in there, Lord, he was up on the TV. I was like, yeah, sometimes that happens. I can hear that in your mom's voice. She was like, and I said, what is Pastor Sean doing on the TV? I called up Ellie. She said, yeah, he did a commercial.
That was pretty cool. So I was asked by the Crossroads dealership to do their Thanksgiving message. And they're Christian owned, but of course they have everybody working there and they serve everybody. But the value system from which they operate is Christian based. So you will see that in their integrity. You will see that in their service and their quality. If any time they feel like something isn't right, they will work extra hard to make it right.
I can vouch for that 100%. Business is business. They have to do what they have to do to survive and pay for all their hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of employees. But still, at the end of the day, they try to do what is right because they're operating from that Christian perspective.
Very true. So they asked me to do their Thanksgiving message and then the Christmas message and all that. It was cool. And it's just 30 seconds of simply wishing the people, telling them as a Crossroads family of dealerships that we operate by godly principles and we try to please God and we want to serve you. That's pretty much it. That's awesome. It is. And I'm glad that you were able to do it because the narrative out there is that you can't put Christian content on live TV anymore.
You can have your podcast and you can have your internet shows and your radio shows, but TV is off limits. Especially in business arenas. 100%. I'm glad to see that's not the case. Yes.
Yes. That's so cool. We've got a great show planned for you guys today.
Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clearview Today. Hey, Clearview Today family. Thank you so much for tuning into the show. We're having a great time so far. Listen, if this show has been a source of encouragement and insight for you, we want to take a second and just ask you to consider supporting us financially.
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You can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. A lot of you guys have been writing in with that number. We really, really appreciate that, but I definitely want to bring out a message that we got that I thought would be a really, really, really beneficial discussion for us. Ryan, I think you know what time it is. I believe it's mail time. Well, we don't have a sound effect, so who knows what time it is? Who knows what time it could be?
We usually do the song, but I guess we're not going to do the song today. Dr. Shah, Francine W. has written into the show. What do you think the W might stand for? Mmm, Winnebago. Oh, Francine Winnebago. Winnebago? It's a Winnebago. It's a car. It's like a bread? It's a car. Winnebago? Yeah.
It sounds like a food. I'm going to type in Winnebago. Francine Winnebago.
Okay, cool. Francine Winnebago. Hi, Dr. Shah, longtime listener of the show.
I love everything you guys talk about on the radio. It makes my morning commute so much more bearable. I have to drive an hour and a half to work. Ooh. Francine. That's a couple hours of the day.
There are a couple shows that'll give you today's show. Yeah, but if you drive in the Winnebago, that's not going to be so bad. My son has recently started going to church with a female pastor. I didn't know how to feel about it. He seems to really love this church, but when I was growing up, women teaching from the pulpit was a big no-no. I know what 1 Timothy says about women not being permitted to teach men in the church, but my son explained to me that that was written for a very specific context for a very specific church and doesn't apply to all Christians at all times. What do you think? It does feel like a very outdated idea and restricting to women who feel called to teach.
Sincerely, Francine Winnebago. That's a rough one. It is a rough one, but if we go biblically, it's quite a simple one. True. And I think people don't really like to hear that.
They don't like to hear that. No, that's not a popular choice, but if you're going to answer a question like that, you probably ought to do it from scripture. I have friends who are really good friends, really knowledgeable, but here is where we part company because they believe that women are called to teach in this kind of a setting as pastors, and I disagree with them. It's not because of feeling superior to women or that women are inferior. It is a very different reason. And it's coming from 1 Timothy, and this is chapter 2 where Paul talks about this. And often this has been dismissed, and maybe we can get into the depths of that.
Sure, absolutely. It has been dismissed as, oh, that's just a cultural situation that was happening in a church where the women were being disruptive, and they were taking away from the focus of the worship. And so Paul was telling them, hey, listen, you need to educate yourself first. And then Paul was addressing a very time-specific situation where these women were not educated, they didn't understand, and they were causing trouble. And this is not the case anymore. And so we shouldn't worry about just relegating the office of teaching to just men or pastoring to just men. And I disagree because of that passage. Keep reading, and you'll see it's got nothing to do just with some cultural appropriation. So that's an interesting point because it feels like that passage is often cited in these debates.
But just like you said, keep reading. It feels like it's being cherry-picked. This one verse or this set of verses is going to support my argument, so I'm going to take this and bolster my argument here but just neglect the rest of the passage. It also feels like this is a topic that even though it is very simple, a lot of churches won't dive into it, either because their pastor's a man, so it doesn't apply to them.
I also wonder, because I've never been to a church with a female pastor, I wonder if they even address it or if they just take it like, hey, I am a woman who's the pastor, so we're not going to touch that. Or do they typically defend that passage in some way? They defend that passage.
Okay, so they will address it. Yeah, they very much do. When you question them, they have their favorite theologians. They have their favorite proponents who espouse and vehemently, if I may say, argue for the view that women can be pastors and senior pastors and preaching pastors and all that. So take, for example, Willow Creek.
Willow Creek back in the day was the happening place. She had Bill and his wife was what, Lynn, I think it is, Hybels, and it seemed like it was just them and that they were very much open to women teaching, and his wife, Bill Hybels, Bill Hybels, Lynn, was just, you know, happened to teach. But then there was also another gentleman in that church by the name of Gilbert Bilzikian, and Bilzikian was very much a theologian, and he was very much for, you know, egalitarian perspective where women can teach and women can do this. So they are evangelical feminists.
Gotcha. So when it says that, when it says we don't permit a woman to teach in the church, do they mean that literally they cannot teach or do they mean they can't be the head pastor? So it's how you approach that preaching situation. I've sat under women teaching, okay. I have, but I knew that the pastor was the pastor.
He was male. And this lady got up and she talked, and she taught, but she was trying to give us that female perspective or even her perspective in the sense of she was a missionary and she spoke. But she was not trying to, you know, trying to be the pastor. She was not trying to fight for some right to preach. She was simply giving her, and she spoke from the Bible and she explained the word of God. And she, in fact, preached better than a lot of preachers I've heard. But she was still not trying to be the preacher. Right. She was still not trying to be the teacher. She wasn't trying to shepherd a flock of a congregation.
Right. She knew that the pastor was the pastor and she was coming under his umbrella. I've heard Joni Eareckson Tada speak.
I've heard Elizabeth Elliott speak. And they did not try to communicate what some of the others tried to do. If, in your opinion, if Paul had been sitting beside you in that room when she was speaking, would he have said, this is fine because she's not trying to be the head pastor of this church? Or do you think Paul would be like, I really don't want them teaching or speaking at all in the church? Is there some cultural, is there some cultural influence in Paul's writing there?
No, I don't think so. And the reason being, because I spent a lot of time digging into this, to figure out what is exactly happening. And what helps take away that cultural influence angle is what Paul says here. OK, so let's why don't we just read it. Ryan, if you want to read First Timothy chapter two, starting in verse eight. So just to get the context, we're going to begin in verse eight. But what I'm focusing on shows up in verse 13 and 14. But let's let's begin in chapter two, First Timothy and verse eight. Verse eight says, I desire, therefore, that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting.
Keep going, keep going. In like manner also that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but which is proper for women professing godliness with good works. If I may say something there. There have been groups who have taken that verse and said, hey, don't braid your hair, don't wear gold and those kind of things. Now, what he is saying here is don't use those things to to show your. Like your wealth, your status. Yeah, your status. In fact, act in a way that is humble. So it's not wearing or not wearing is a question is the attitude and the purpose behind it.
Gotcha. So I keep reading verse 11. This is First Timothy, chapter two and verse 11. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. OK, this this is the the big verse.
This is this is that that's that horn in people's sides. What do you do here? And Paul says that I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Teach and have authority over a man. Teach.
I get it. But then also to have authority over a man. So there are times that they can teach without having authority over a man. OK. Or just have authority over a man.
Forget about teaching or not. Both of those things are wrong. OK. So it has to be so there are teaching that I've heard where the woman was not exercising authority over me or any of the men in this room. She was just offering her perspective, her perspective, her teaching, her explanation, her message.
All that is fine. Right. There was a senior pastor as an umbrella over there. Gotcha.
But then how can it not become an office of a teacher, a female teacher? Well, the very next verse is very, very, very important to understand. Verse 13. Yes, it says, For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. So for those who say this is only a cultural situation that Paul was addressing in Corinth. It's a creation situation. Yeah, I was going to say, I think Francine mentioned that, that her son, Sid, this was meant, that letter was written for a specific church in that time. But if he's, if he's, if Paul is bringing out something that goes back to the very beginning, then there's no cultural, there's no like Jewish cultural influence here. Or Corinthian thing happening. Right.
This situation goes all the way back to the Garden of Gitzel, oh, Garden of Gitzel, Garden of Eden. Wow. Yeah. It definitely changes things.
Yeah, it does. And, and I wonder, maybe this is a conversation for another day, we only have 10 minutes left on the show. So I feel like we'll probably have to, but, but I wonder if, well, not a wonder, I know for a fact, but it's, I think people are conflating or getting mixed up with submission and inferiority. So that if I submit to you, I'm inferior to you. Right.
As like, like in my value. Yeah. And I guess that's really, maybe, is that the heart of the issue, would you say that they, that it quote unquote implies that women are inferior because they can't teach in the church? Yeah, that, that, that's definitely how it's been taken, that this is somehow making women less. And that's not true. I mean, come on, we know that women are far more spiritually in tune than men are.
Yeah. Go back to the Garden of Eden. It was not the man who's wanted to know how to be like God, knowing good and evil. It was the woman who wanted to be like God, knowing good and evil. Right there, spiritual knowledge, spiritual depth was not something the man was aspiring to, but the woman. And ever since then, women have been more spiritually minded than men. But God did something in order to balance out that relationship, he said, you, woman, have a sharper spiritual acumen, but the man in your life is going to lead your relationship. So you submit to him.
Yeah. So imagine what would happen if the woman is spiritually very aware and also the leader. What would happen to the man at that point? He'd be left behind. What do you need to do? He's done. What do we even need him? What do you bring into the equation?
You bring nothing. Yeah. So God in his divine wisdom put a balance to that relationship by saying she has more spiritual understanding than you, but guess what? You have to lead this relationship. I feel like we've heard from those women who have stepped up and who have taken charge, maybe not every single one of them, but some of them would say, no, I wish my husband was the one doing this. I wish my husband was the one out in front leading us. Good point.
But he's not, so I'm the one bringing the kids to church. Right. And sadly, it's a vicious cycle because since the men don't lead, the women end up leading, and because the women are leading, the men don't ever lead.
The men don't ever lead. Yeah. So it's a vicious cycle and it's killing our churches. What do you think's at stake here?
What do you think stands to happen if this doesn't become- If we don't break out of this cycle. Right. Of course.
I mean, it's very obvious. We will continue down this path where you won't see any men in the church. I mean, right now, in some of these small older churches, you may see one or two older fellows in the back trying to change the light bulb and be that one lone singer in the choir. Yeah. Or he's the guy who, hey, come here, Herb. Can you get that pot from me? Yeah. I'll take it.
I reckon I'll get pot for you. There you go. Yeah.
That's all it's going to be. And give it another 10 years, Herb won't be there. Yeah. Rest in peace, Herb. Yeah.
There won't be anybody. And so that is what we have to lose. Now, here's the interesting thing. When people come to Clearview, they're blown away. Right.
Where are all these men coming from? That's a good point. And not just attending, but serving. Serving and leading. Yes. And I tell them, everything we're doing here is being done prayerfully and intentionally. We prayed for this. Yes. And then intentionally, we do everything to make sure that men serve, that men lead.
We get men to pray. Right. Ladies, I mean, you all are serving. Yeah. And we need the ladies tremendously. But just trust me, do you want your men here, your man, your son, your husband, your grandson to be here? Or do you want to get up there and pontificate? Right.
What do you want to do? Yeah. Do you want to have my husband, my son, my grandson, my brother, my brother-in-law, my son-in-law? Okay. Then we've got to do it this way. That's right. Trust me. You don't need convincing. Right.
Let's follow Paul in 1 Timothy chapter 2, and let's get it right. Now, if you're going to get your feelings hurt and say, just like that woke preacher saying, you know, you need to get this, you have a disease. We've got to get your whiteness out of you. If we're going to say that to men, you have a disease that you're not willing to listen to a woman. We've got to get this maleness out of you.
Go for it. All it's going to be is that that male will not be in church. That's right.
I was about to say, don't be surprised when you don't see him again. That's right. 100%. So helpful for us. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on The Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to Mighty Muscadine for sponsoring today's episode. And don't forget, you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen to any episodes. And you can always support us financially by visiting ClearviewTodayShow.com. Jon, anything you want to plug as the show ends today? Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely. Make sure you buy Dr. Shot and Nicole's book, 30 Days Praying for America, Daily Devotions to Heal Our Nation. Dr. Charles also has a couple other books. One of them is Changing the Goalposts of New Testament Textual Criticism, along with Can We Recover the Text of the New Testament, the original text of the New Testament. Both books that were written right here at Clearview Church by Dr. Shaw. Make sure you pick them up today. Also, our debut album, Heaven Here and Now, is available right now on iTunes, Spotify, and anywhere else digital music is sold or streamed. That was a, I forgot to breathe.
A mouthful, yeah. Dr. Shaw, we've got maybe a minute or so left. If churches are listening to this and they're saying, I understand what you're saying about everything being done prayerfully and intentionally, what is the next step that we can take in order to mobilize or even reach the guys around us? What can we do to light that spark in them?
Very good. I would say sit back and watch one of your services. Take the time to see how you have feminized your church.
Good point. And you have to set your pride aside, okay? If you're going to get prideful and get your feelings hurt and feel like men and women, how dare men continue to leave? Okay, if you want to do that, then don't even listen to the rest of this program. But you want your husband there, you want your son-in-law there, you want your son, your grandson, your brother, your brother-in-law, you want those males in your life to come and give their lives to Jesus Christ and be transformed for this life and have eternity in the new creation forever and ever.
You want that? Okay, then set aside your pride. Don't listen to the devil. And watch your service and see what's happening.
And you'll be shocked, some of the songs that we sing, some of the ways we talk, some of the things we do, some of the action points we have for people to do, they're so feminized. That's true. Change that. And you'll begin to see God do a new work in your church.
A hundred percent. Amen. So good. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow, same time, same place. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearly Today. We'll see you next time.
