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David, how many bottles of water do you think you drink a day? Well, actually, I only drink Flamin' Hot Mountain Dew, Strawberry YooHoo, and the occasional Pepto Bismol. Flamin' Hot Mountain Dew? Do they even make that anymore?
Fun fact, no. I have to make my own with McDonald's Sprite, and you guessed it, Texas Pete. I am genuinely horrified to hear that.
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Where's my Mountain Dew? You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
That's right. You guys can help us keep the conversation moving forward by supporting the show. You can share it online with your friends and family. Leave us a good five-star review on iTunes or Spotify anywhere you get your podcasting content from. Absolutely nothing less than five stars.
We're going to leave a link in the description so you can do just that. Ryan, happy Friday, my friend. How are you doing? Happy Friday. Are you tired?
Fri-yay. You're tired? No. You look tired. That's just my face. Oh, shoot. I'm sorry. Thanks for that.
My self-confidence is in the gutter. But not because of anything outside of that comment I just made. No, just that. Just the comment. So, I want to give a gripe vine today. Welcome to the gripe vine. Wait a minute. You're on the green light.
Yeah, that's what we do every time we find our own gripe. You didn't tell me that. Well, you're fine. It's still recording. It's still recording.
I thought it wasn't recording. All right, all right. Here we go. Welcome to the gripe vine. So, this gripe is not about insulting your friends on live radio.
This is about something even worse. This is something that I've kept to myself for a while because there are some dear friends of mine who do this. Now, they're not in this room that I know of. I don't think you do this. I know a couple couples in our church who do this.
I'm not saying them. I just hate this behavior. When couples love bomb each other on social media, can I just take a second and just be grateful for this beautiful woman in my life that God himself has given to me, this smoking hot mama of my two children?
If it weren't for her and the dedication she shows to my family, I would be nothing, but I'm the luckiest man who ever lived. That nonsense drives me crazy. I can't stand when couples do that. Hold on. Hold that thought. No, keep ranting, but hold that thought.
He's looking something up. I'm not thinking of you. If you do that, then that annoys me, but I'm not thinking of you. There's a couple people that I'm thinking of. Some of them don't even go to this church, but I just can't stand it when couples love bomb each other.
What are you trying to prove? Do you love your spouse? Hey, guess what? I love my wife. My wife will do it, but she'll do it on anniversaries and birthdays. Fine. Hey, this man is such a great husband, such a provider for my kids.
He is a great example for his father and for his church family. Okay, fine. Do it. I always comment, happy anniversary, babe. Love you. I feel like that's enough.
That's enough of the public show that I need to put on. Yeah, good. Go ahead. Happy birthday to my best friend, forever wedding date, teammate and partner for life. You deserve every good, every good thing today and always. Thank you for all the ways you take care of me and our family. You're simply the best.
I love you. It's a, it's a birthday post. Okay. It gets a pass. It gets a pass. I'm not saying birthday posts get a pass. They post an anniversary post. They get a pass. I'm talking about these.
You see like once every couple of months, Laura, like once a month, these couples who love on birthday anniversary, it'll be a little, it'll be a little sappy between the Hills. Yeah, that's fine. It's still cringe. It's still cringe. Don't get me wrong. But you can, birthdays, anniversaries, no big deal. We've been married for 15 years together for over 20. So we get to be, do what you want to do.
And even if you do it every couple of weeks, but you know, you know, those couples in your life who just do it all the time. Let's kick them out of the church. No, we got to kick them out of the church. Seriously. Yeah. My wife actually gets kind of upset cause I'll on her birthday, I'll post happy birthday, babe. Love you. I feel like that's all the public show that it needs to be. I can tell her to her face, Hey baby, I appreciate you and what you do for our family.
Happy birthday. She wants to be appreciated in front of everyone. That's what, that's what they all want. It's the couples that do it to each other. That's really, it's just the men. Women can do it.
I don't care if women do it. Now we're narrowing it down. I'm stopping. I'm done.
That's my gripe. If you are a love bomber for your spouse on social media, first of all, you know, that's fine. Words of affirmation. But second of all, write in and let us know what is the sappiest post you've ever encountered on social media. Yeah, I want to read it.
I tell you what, you're so proud of it. Send it in and let me read it. I'll read it on air.
Two five two five eight two five zero two eight. Or you can visit us online at Clearview today show.com. Stay tuned. We'll be back after this. Hey, what's going on listeners.
My name is John and I'm Ellie. And we just want to take a second and let you know about Dr. Shah's new book on the market right now called, Can We Recover the Original Text of the New Testament? Boy, that is a long title. True, but it's a very simple message. The original text of the New Testament is not only attainable, but there are lots of different ways that scholars go about discovering it. There's a lot of people out there saying that the original text is lost forever or that it's hopeless to actually try to find it or that there's many texts of the New Testament. But alongside Dr. David Allen Black, Dr. Shah has actually compiled papers from some of the world's leading experts in textual criticism, including one written by himself on various methodologies for extracting the original text. And listen, if you're interested in textual criticism, this book is a great introduction to the field. You can pick up your copy on Amazon or you can buy it from our church website. That's ClearviewBC.org. We're going to leave a link in the description box so you can get your copy today.
Love that. Ellie, let's hop back in. Let's do it. Welcome back to Clearview today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com.
If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right. And we're here once again in the Clearview Today studio with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, you ever see couples love bomb each other on social media? What I mean by that is you know, you know, you know, there's going to be a couple that comes to your mind. It is what it is. Maybe they go to church, maybe they don't, several, but they are so deeply and madly in love with their spouse that they just can't contain it. They have to put it all over social media three or four times a month. I'm not going to say whether or not they are or not deeply or madly in love. They just want us to know that. They want you to know it's important to me that you know, because I feel I think I am part of the relationship. Yes, yes, I am.
And that's what I was saying. It was like, and they put stuff and it's like, I just got to tell you guys on social media how lucky I am to have a smoking hot wife. I'm like, you are my husband. He's the best. I am there for him. We are together.
We're a team. Yes. And it's like, do you want, do you want me to think your wife is smoking hot?
Do you want me to think you love your husband? What's your point? Have you seen people do that all the time? Not all people do that. Right. Most people have sense. I'm going to give you a round of applause for that one. Do you not understand that when you do that, you are compensating and you are actually revealing like I wonder what's going on. And the thing is the people who do it, like I said, birthdays, anniversaries, you got to pass.
Nobody's talking about that. I'm talking about in the middle of the week, like you go on a date night once a month or like once every, maybe, maybe twice or three times a month. But it's always like, I just need, I just need to make this post so that everyone understands how lucky I am to have a smoking, madly in love with my wife. She's always there for me. She's the perfect mother. She's this and that. I'm like, oh, my husband is just great and I'm so grateful to God that I have him in my life and he is my, he's my soul. He's my heart.
He's my number one. Okay. Okay.
Why? Right. Cause my first thought is, are you trying to convince yourself that you are? Are you trying to convince us that you are? Yeah. My first thought is you've been told to say this or worse.
There's something that you're trying to cover up, compensate for. Yeah. It's crazy. It is sad. It's crazy. So work to the wise, the listeners and the viewers.
If you love your husband, if you love your wife, great special days, please do it. But other than that, when you're doing that, you may think in your head, well, I'm doing it for me. I don't really care. Then go talk to him. Yeah.
Go talk to her. You don't have to do this to the rest of society. Cause the same people either they'll never, ever post anything that Jesus said nothing towards God, or they'll post a verse with no commentary, just nothing about it at all. Just a complete verse out of context. You know, what did we do prior to social media? I don't know.
I have no idea what we had a simpler world. If this person personality trait existed, nobody could imagine like Craig at the water cooler at the office. Just being like, guys, my wife, I got to tell you about my wife. Wow. How grateful I am. Like I'm not eating lunch with Craig. Like I'm not eating lunch with Craig.
Are you having problems? We're in love. Oh wow.
We're in love. Wow. I just. Craig. Is everything all right?
Is everything okay? Craig. He's crying.
I'm deeply. Craig's crying. Oh, poor Craig. Hashtag save Craig's marriage. Save Craig's marriage. The verse of the day today is coming to us from Luke chapter nine, verse 20.
It doesn't have anything to do with Craig's marriage. Then he said to them, but who do you say that I am? And Peter said, the Christ of God. Didn't we go there? Was that at Caesarea Philippi? That's right. Yes, it was. It was in the vicinity. And when you go there, those who have gone to Israel or they've gone with us, you know, you notice that hillside and you have different niches in the wall where they had statues or idols and there was even a statue for the God Pan. Yes, Peter Pan. Did you make that joke when we were in Israel? I don't think I've ever heard that.
I don't know. Pan is actually an ancient Greek god. Wow. Hashtag Peter Pan. Yeah. But I mean, but enjoy Peter Pan.
Nothing wrong with that. But that's, so all these were there. And then I think in a sense, Jesus was saying, you know, this is what the world says about these idols and false gods and goddesses. Who do you think I am? And when Peter gave that confession, you are Christ, the son of the living God or Christ of God. He was declaring that you are above all these gods and goddesses. You're above all of them.
You are the only living God. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned something on an earlier episode this week. I wish I could remember what day you said it.
If I can, I'll put it in the description below. But you said that you cannot confess that Jesus is the Christ without the Holy Spirit. It's a scripture. It's in the Bible. That really, I don't know. That just really helped me because there's an assurance there.
You know, if you confess that Jesus is Christ, it's because the Holy Spirit allowed you to do that. I think that was the episode, Our Catholics, Christians. Yes. I think, I think you're right. I think you're right.
Well, we got something kind of, kind of, kind of new today. This is not Dr. Shaw's book club, but it is close. This is a book review. This is something we want to start doing where, you know, cause, cause Dr. Shaw's book club is very popular. People really like it a lot, but then there's books where it's like, I don't really want to recommend this book. I just kind of want to talk about it.
Right. And this, we wanted to kind of start this off with a book that you brought to us, Dr. Shaw. It's a book called The Widening of God's Mercy. The Widening of God's Mercy and subtitled Sexuality Within the Biblical Story. And it's written by a father and son team, Christopher Hayes and Richard Hayes. Richard Hayes was a professor at Duke University and his son, Christopher Hayes is a professor of Old Testament at Fuller Theological Seminary. So they've written this book on kind of like biblical ethics, but really the problem comes in when they talk about same-sex marriage or homosexuality. They, especially Richard Hayes.
Kind of a weird topic for a father and son to write a book about together, right? Right. Homosexuality, like I'm guessing with the title, like Widening of God's Mercy, they're all for it. They have no problem with homosexuality. They don't.
And this is sadly a big departure from Richard Hayes' original position. And I'm trying to find the book, this book I do have. When you say they don't, you mean they don't support homosexuality or they do?
They do support homosexuality. The book is The Moral Vision of the New Testament. This was a book that I had to read in my PhD program. And it was, it's a great book. It talks about you know, just, just what is the moral life according to the New Testament?
What is Paul's understanding of, you know, what is pleasing to God? Maybe that's one we will see in Dr. Shaw's book club in the future. Yeah, I won't have any problem recommending that book.
Okay. Moral Vision of the New Testament. Great book. But when it comes to this one, I believe it's a stark departure from The Moral Vision book.
The Widening of God's Mercy goes sort of... Oh, I see what you're saying. Richard Hayes is the one who wrote, he wrote both books. He wrote both books.
But now he's departed. But in the second book, he's written several books. Like Echoes of Old Testament, I believe in the letters of Paul, Echoes of Old Testament in the Gospels. I think these are also books that he wrote.
And great books. I don't agree with everything in the way he sees the quotations of the old and the new. But when it came to The Moral Vision book, I liked it.
I think it was good. I mean, he was one of those guys you can say, okay, that's a good guy. In fact, years ago, this was in 19, I want to say 97 or something like that. Christianity Today had Richard Hayes along with Kevin Van Hooser and a couple other people. They were on the front cover of Christianity Today as the up and coming scholars. Not up and coming like they just came on the scene, but they were like the people you can trust. Miroslav Vov was on that, in that list. And one more lady, I cannot remember her name right now.
She's at Princeton. But anyway, these were the four people who are on that picture of Christianity Today as people you can trust. And Moral Vision had come out, I think somewhere around that time. And wow, great book. But Widening of God's Mercy, they really have gone off.
And it's sad to see that Richard Hayes has taken this position. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just want to kind of summarize the thesis of his book, which is all throughout the Old Testament, God starts super strict, super, super like, this is the moral law, this is what it is. But then throughout the Old Testament and even into the new, he starts changing his mind, widening his sphere of grace, if you will, to include more and more people. In a sense, the open theism debate that was in the late 90s, early 2000s is sort of used as a, as their, as in support that God changes his mind.
So what he was then is not necessarily who he is today. It's not sure why you Christians, you fundamentalists, you conservatives are hanging on to things that even God doesn't hang on to. Right. Because if God is willing to change his mind, if God is willing to open up his mercy and let more and more people in, you as Christians ought to be able to do the same.
Right. What is the big deal? Why are you making a big deal out of it? And that right there, open theism has been disproven many times.
And yes, it is still there in some fringes, but it's not necessarily the view of most evangelicals. Is Richard Hayes homosexual? No.
Just, but he's just trying to widen up, widen up his view and be tolerant or whatever. Right. Right.
Okay. And there's a huge problem because, you know, they say sexuality within the biblical story, but they go outside the biblical story. They go outside scripture to support this view. So they rely on reason. They rely on experience rather than scripture because scripture is very clear.
Right. Old and new are quite clear on homosexuality. So is it, are they trying to create a pattern in which God changes his mind over time? So he's going to change his mind one day about homosexuality or that he has, he already has, and it's just not in scripture and we don't know.
He already has, and I know what the new Testament is saying, but we've moved beyond that and we should keep moving beyond that is what it's saying. It was those, those kinds of prescriptions were time bound. I mean, think about divorce is what they will say. Think about divorce at one time.
Oh, so strict on divorce and then divorce, but only, you know, Moses allowed it because of the hardness of your heart. Okay. We understand.
Then Paul talking about divorce, but he's not as strict about it. And if, if it's an unbeliever, blah, blah, blah, you know, it's okay. Whatever.
Now we're in a different place where it's no longer an issue. I mean, nobody like stones homosexual, I mean people who divorce people. So come on, use the same logic and apply that to homosexuality. I mean, the church today does not, you know, wag their finger at people who have divorced, divorces. So why can't we do the same here?
But here's the problem. Unlike divorce, which is of course, sad and heartbreaking and not God's best for the couple homosexuality, directly contradicts God's original plan. Right. Right. I mean, doesn't divorce for that matter? Yeah, it does. I would say that I, like, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there are churches out there who are saying, Hey, divorce is no big deal.
You can do it. But should they be saying that? Yeah.
They shouldn't be saying that. You should still uphold a sanctity of marriage, but it's understandable in situations of abuse, you know, infidelity and things like that. And God has allowed that, but that's different. Yeah. Because under what conditions would homosexual behavior be acceptable? Right.
I can't think of any if the Bible, and the Bible doesn't lay out any. Right. And it's not a direct affront against the character and the nature of God and his establishment of marriage. Right.
Right. I mean, go back to Genesis. He created them male and female, right?
There is a prototype. And then of course, you go into the book of Romans and it gives you a list of all the people who will not enter heaven. And then you go into Revelation and guess what? In all these lists, homosexuality is mentioned. Yeah. So if you're going to go outside scripture to find support and sort of use this divorce argument, I'm very saddened to see that because Richard Hayes is much smarter than that. And he understands logic and reason better than that. For him to do this is like, oh, you've lowered the standard of scholarship.
He's a great scholar. Yeah. It feels like there's this push to sort of lump homosexuality in with other things. I mean, there's constantly moving away from categorizing it as a separate and even worse sin and just lumping it in with, oh, well, you know, divorce is okay, so this is okay. Or, you know, infidelity, we can forgive that.
So this is, this is okay. But there's, there's a distinction. I mean, scripture makes a distinction with homosexuality and there's, it seems like even with people who would claim to be Christian scholars, there's a movement away from that. Right. It feels like, it feels like it's very reactionary and what I mean by that is it seems like the church or people in the church or, or just certain Christians, I would say, are always looking to get on board with whatever the world has decided is okay now.
You know what I mean? Like before this, when, and I know people will say, you know, in the fifties and sixties, Christians held all the power, whatever. But before this, when general culture was against homosexuality, you didn't have scholars and Christians saying things like this, but when the church, I mean, I'm sorry, when the world now comes along and says, no, it's good. And we're going to spend the next several decades making it a good thing to be celebrated.
It seems like rather than stand firm, the church wants to say, okay, yeah, yeah. I don't want to be left behind. Let me be the cutting edge scholar who has changed his mind. I'm the good guy.
Hey, build me a statue. You know, I mean, I know Richard Hayes probably won't say that, but I'm beginning to question, what is your motive, right? What is your motive in abandoning good, solid biblical scholarship scholarship? I'm talking about academic scholarship to go down this road of experience.
And I feel like this and I feel like that. Yeah, true. I don't know how because, because there's not, like you said, there can't be any biblical evidence to support God being in favor of homosexuality. So other than anecdotal stories, what can he, what is he truly bringing to the table? And if it's like a pastor or just like a Christian author or whatever, but if this is a scholar now, this is like a bona fide, is he a PhD? Oh, a hundred percent.
He taught at Duke university. Right. And so we do that, you do that with devotionals, with, you know, your devotionals or your sermons, whatever it can be anecdotal, but in your, in your scholarly work where you're trying to, where you're trying to make a scholarly point, you know, how many, like, do you have any legitimately, any anecdotal evidence in either of your two scholarly books? Uh, no, no.
I mean, it's, you cannot do that. I mean, my dissertation at one time I had a few things like, Hey, there's a great analogy right here. And my professor was like, I see what you're doing. Would it work great in a sermon or a conference where you're teaching on that subject, but in your dissertation, you cannot use that.
Yeah. So for him to go outside the canon to experience, to me is lowering the standard of academics. I guess maybe the heart of the issue is God changing his mind, you know, does he change his nature? If he's, if he's changing his mind, but God is unchanging, you know, is there a contradiction there? Because if we say, no, there's no contradiction then, okay, I can see that. But if it is, then maybe God is changing his mind about core. If he's willing to change his mind about wiping out an entire city, why wouldn't he change his mind about who gets, especially if he, and he changed his mind about, okay, this is for Jewish people only, but now Gentiles are led into, why would he, why can't he change his mind about homosexual behavior? I guess is the heart of their argument.
Right. Now, covenant theology will quickly answer that. For example, Tom Shriner at Southern Theological Seminary or Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, he will use a covenant theology argument and say, hey, listen, that's done with. Whatever God told Israel is no longer applicable to us because, you know, now the church has been let in. It's a new set of morality, values, whatever.
And under this, their standards are higher. Okay. That's what he will say. And that's great.
I'm glad that works. But I don't think you have to go to covenant theology to necessarily say that the standards are higher. I can still hold onto the same principle because I believe the principles, God's moral ethical principles carry throughout scripture.
He did not change his mind from the old to the new. So those principles continue. A great point are the theses, antitheses in the Sermon on the Mount. You heard it said, but I say to you, you heard it said, but I say to you, and in all those situations, God was always, Jesus was raised in the bar. He was actually being stricter.
He was stricter. So I don't think you have to go the covenant theology route to answer this. You can continue and believe. This is kind of an aside, but do you subscribe to covenant theology anyway? I don't. Okay.
I don't. I don't believe that God has annulled his covenant with Israel. There are promises that God has made to Israel, ethnic Israel, that God will fulfill in his timing.
They'll be towards the end of time. The land promises have not gone away. Ezekiel talks about that. So I'm not a dispensationalist either. You don't have to be dispensationalist if you reject covenant theology. So I believe that Christ is found in the Old and the New Testament. I believe there has always been one plan of salvation and that was the cross of Jesus Christ. Before he came, people were looking forward to his coming. Since he came, we look back to his coming, but it was always the cross. Even though they did the exercises, they did the sacrifices, they did everything, the whole time they knew there was something deeper in those sacrifices rather than just taking some poor old lamb and chopping his head off and that there you go, that's my sin atonement.
No, no, they knew better. Steer me straight if I get off base here, because this is not, I have no scriptural or even logical evidence. I'm literally just spitballing.
But when we talk about God changing his mind, like for example, he says, hey, shellfish, not okay. You're not going to do that. Tattoos, not happening. I'm not cool with that.
Wearing cloth of the same kind. I'm not cool with that. You can't do it. Is it fair to say that he didn't change his moral standard? He knew that there was nothing sinful about those things, but he gave them sort of an oppressive law.
Keep them distinct from the Canaanites and the people around them. Those laws, and I know there are people who sell books and try to give me those books on, you know, eat this because this is the holy diet. I don't go for those things. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating seafood. And there never was.
No, no. Some of those things, laws were put into place so that you wouldn't go down in the coastline where some of those things were sold. And in the process, you will meet some of those people.
Some of those Canaanites and Phoenicians and stuff like that. And you start building relationships with them. And before you know it, you're going to get sucked into this all because of your food habits. Yeah, this is a problem because it's a pathway to a larger problem. Larger problems. So be distinct. It's also circumcision. And if people talk about circumcision somehow, it's like, it's so much better for you, you know, health-wise, maybe. But there's no conclusive proof on that. So if you want to circumcise your boys, go for it.
If you don't want to, go for it. I don't think that has anything to do with health. Right. Circling back to Richard Hayes, the whole book is a false premise because God changing his mind, and I'm putting the air quotes, is not him changing his standards. It's not the same thing.
No, never, never. Especially when it comes to marriage. He made them male and female in his image. So when you talk about homosexuality, you're actually calling God's the original.
He's the original, we are the image, right? So when you say man and a man or woman and a woman, you're actually trying to distort the original at that point. Him changing his mind, do you think it's sort of a misnomer? Like, when I say I, because when I changed my mind, it's probably because I was wrong back then. I was wrong. So I encountered new information. Right.
So either Richard Hayes is saying, and his son are saying that either God realized he was wrong or he just found some new information that he didn't know. Oh, he just became more relaxed now. Why?
Why? Because you know, after a while, God grows and he understands things better. Hmm.
No, he doesn't. Yeah. If God grows and there was a point where he had to grow to where he was originally before that, and then it just opens up a whole messy kind of world. Well, this is one of those things that we talk, I know we're out of time, but this is one of those things we talk about with doctrine. Like you can't have secondary and tertiary doctrines because eventually they're going to impact your understanding of who God is. Yeah.
In some of the reform systems, you'll find that, you know, primary, secondary, tertiary. And I'm okay with that to some extent, but I always remind people, it's like, be careful what you believe about creation doctrine, that it was made on a literal six day creation is what I hold to when you begin to give that up, just know that sooner or later it's going to impact inerrancy. Yeah. It's like you just add something like you can believe in these secondary doctrines if you want to, but there has to be a point where the further you chase it, you will have to have this larger conversation.
So you just got to be too scared, I guess, to chase it. Exactly. That's right. So helpful for us. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, write in and let us know two five two five eight two five zero two eight, where you can visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com.
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