Monday, October 30th | The Rumble in the Jungle!!

Welcome back, everyone. Today is Monday, October the 30th. I'm Ryan Hill.

John Galantis. And you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

That's right. You guys can help us keep the conversation going by supporting the show. You can share it online with your friends and your family. You can leave us a good five-star review on iTunes or Spotify. Absolutely nothing less.

We're going to leave a link in the description of this podcast so you can do just that. And today's verse of the day is coming to us from Isaiah 60, verse 3. The Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising. I love verses like this because it reminds us that salvation for everyone has always been on God's heart.

Yes. Sometimes people get that mixed up, and they think, like, Old Testament God was just working with the Jewish people and the Hebrews and the Israelites, and in the New Testament is where salvation got opened up to everybody. But throughout history, throughout history, it's always been God's plan that every person come to salvation. That doesn't negate the fact that Israel is God's chosen nation, and God has worked through them, and God is continuing to work through them and has plans for them. But God has always desired that every nation, every tribe, come to faith in Him. Yeah, we think that's something that Jesus just introduced out of spite. Like, okay, y'all are going to reject me?

You're going to act a fool, now we're going to invite everybody to the party. This verse, I think, Isaiah, I'll check with Dr. Shaw, I think this is like 800 years or something before Christ. Wow. It's really, really a long time before Jesus was born. And it says, plain as day, the Gentiles shall come to your light. Yeah. And so, yeah, that does shed some light on what God's plan of salvation.

A lot of people, I think, don't know what, or just don't understand the fullness of God's plan. Yeah. You know, we think, again, it was something that just, Jesus just kind of made it up as He went.

Like, alright, well, I guess I'll open it up to the door. Or, like, we often default to, we just think we're the main character. Yeah.

We think we're the center of the story, and we're not. Yeah. That doesn't mean that God doesn't include us in the plan of salvation, certainly He does.

But God has plans for Israel, and He still has plans for Israel. Yeah. Got an email this morning. Gerald M. Who wants to know?

My condolences. Why? I don't know.

Weird name? Just because you got an email. Well, actually, it's kind of ironic, it's kind of meta, because his email is about our email account. Oh. It's, what does your email, I think he means our personal ones, what does your email inbox look like right now? I think what he's asking is, like, are we the type where it's like, I check off every email as it comes in, or I let it stack up? I think, on three, let's say whether ours are clean or dirty, because I think I know what yours is. I think I know what yours is, too.

One, two, three. It's clean. Yeah, of course, because we're men of order. Right.

Yes. But we're not women. I don't know why women do this thing where they- Organized, nice, neat, crisp, the ones that are there need to be there, the ones that are not there are gone? Yeah, yeah, I don't have any spam in my folders, I don't have, I've seen women that have, like, over 500 unread emails just in their email emails. Oh, buddy, I have seen upwards of 2,000. I'm sorry? Uh-huh. Pardon? Uh-huh.

You said 2,000? And I've seen it from my wife. You said your wife? My wife. Okay. Okay, so another thing I don't like is that women, generally speaking, are really clean, tidy, organized.

Uh-huh. Like, my wife has our house labeled, organized, everything put away. It looks like something on HGTV, the white people- Your wife is, like, another level of organization.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then her email inbox and her desktop look like a war zone. It looks like the beaches of Normandy after everything has calmed down.

It looks horrifying. It's interesting to me that you say that because I have found that, like, people will often be organized in different areas. Like, there are some people who keep an immaculate car, but their room looks like a disaster. Yeah. Or there are some people whose room is, like, pristine, but their car looks like a tornado went off in there.

Like, I don't understand where the differentiation falls in people and what that says about you. But I feel like for some of us, like, for us, our email inbox is organized. It's pristine. By the way, contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com, very organized. Very clean. Managed by us. Very clean.

Very organized. When I have an email come in, I go ahead, I look at it, I either put it in the trash or I respond to it right then and there because I want that inbox to always say zero. Because unlike that gripe several episodes ago, we do respond to emails.

That's right. We don't just send people the email to say, I'm not going to talk to you. Yeah, no, we actually respond to our emails. Ellie, and I'm guessing Elizabeth, too, will not respond to an email, but she'll keep it in case it's important, but she won't look at it in case it's important, but she'll keep it in case it's important, but then she'll still mark it as unread so that she can find it later.

I don't understand what that means. Like, even my mom has, like, 600, 700 unread emails. It doesn't bother her. That stresses me out.

It doesn't bother her. I get a little tight in my chest when I think about it. Me too. Because I have, like, at the end of the day, like, sometimes when I wake up, I'll have 10 emails, and I'm like, ooh, I gotta, I gotta, and they're all spam. That's piling up. They're all spam, but I'm like, I gotta get rid of that. Yeah, just real quick.

Click, click, click, click. So she's got 2,000, and it doesn't bother her at all? Does she know where everything is? I mean, she knows that 80% of them are spam.

No, here's the solution. She just types in the search bar what she's looking for and finds that email, which I guess works. I mean, she's never lost anything in her email. But a red notification pin that says 2,000, she doesn't care. No, she doesn't care.

I don't know. And I'm like, I want to, like, throw your phone in front of a bus. Yeah, that might be couples counseling for me. Yeah, that's stressful. I just don't look at Ellie's phone.

I love her to death, and she is organized in many areas. Email is not one of them. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Yeah. All right. Well, that's it.

Let us know. I'm really interested to know now, not only about the stuff about, like, email, but also, like, rooms and cars and desks, like, your desk at work. How do you organize your life? How is your life organized? Are you an organized person, and if so, which areas of your life are organized and which are messy?

I'm interested to know about Dr. Shy. I feel like he's probably pretty organized across the board. His email, um... I don't know about his email, because he gets a ton of emails. His basement's pretty unorganized right now, but I think his emails are pretty organized. Yeah. And his phone. Yeah.

I want to ask him and see which areas of his life are the most organized, and if so, why. Write in and let us know, but let us know for you. Hey, everyone. My name's Elli.

And I'm David. And the reason why I answered prayers in their life is because they're not praying. You know, 1 John 5.15 says, And if we know that he hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of him. If you're listening to the Clearview Today show, we want to know how we can pray for you as well. There's a number of ways that you can get in touch with us at Clearview and share your prayer requests, but the best way is by texting us at 252-582-5028. You can also send us an email at prayer at ClearviewBC.org or you can download the Clearview app on iTunes or Google Play. You know, on that app, there's a dedicated prayer wall that helps us to get to know what's going on in your life, how we can pray for you and how we can take any necessary steps to get you moving in the right direction. Thanks for listening.

Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. That's right. We are live on location in the Clear View Today studio with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, who's a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and host of today's show, Dr. Shaw. Happy Monday. Happy Monday to you guys. Happy Monday. I got to stop you for just a second because it just popped into my head and I want you to work it in at some point.

Live on location with the Clear View sensation. Oh, very nice. From the four corners of the earth, it's Dr. Abbadon Shaw. Sounds like I'm about to go into a boxing fight with somebody. I was trying to think it's the thriller in... He's smart, so it's the thriller adjacent to the amygdala, like in your brain.

Come on, dude. Are you talking about the thriller in Manila? Yeah, I was trying to copy thriller in Manila, but today's not about the thriller in the Manila. It's actually about the rumble in the jungle, baby. It is not the rumble in the jungle.

Today, if you're not a huge boxing fan or if you're not familiar with this event, today is the anniversary of the rumble in the jungle, the famous fight between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. And this was a big deal, Dr. Shaw. I was not around when this happened and I wasn't as familiar with it before prepping for the show. It was in the 70s, wasn't it? But I didn't realize how big a deal this was.

Oh, yes, yes. So you're talking about the rumble in the jungle, right? Yeah, that was a big deal. It was Muhammad Ali's comeback fight and George Foreman, and you thought it was only about the grill. We're just going for the grill. We were talking about this yesterday and we were looking at the calendar and we were like, oh, tomorrow's the... or maybe we were talking about it last week, but we were saying the 30th is the fight between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.

That's the anniversary. And I was like, George Foreman, like the grill guy? They were like, yeah. I was like, did he get in the ring with Muhammad Ali? They were like, bro, he's a boxer. I was like, there's no way George Foreman's a boxer. I had no earthly clue.

I did. I did actually know he was a boxer, but I didn't ever see any of his matches or anything. Never knew it. I definitely learned something new. Growing up, I knew about George Foreman.

When I say growing up, I'm talking about the college years. But he was not a boxer for me either because the era in which he fought was back in the 70s, right? 60s, 70s. So that was way before my time. Although I was born in 73, but it was not like I came in the world, but when's the fight? Right, right. You were boxing from the crib.

You're like three years old and you're like, mom. Yeah, I know the fight of the century was in 1971 with Joe Frazier. Joe Frazier won, so I'm waiting for... I'm waiting for the rematch. Just come out with the stats already in there. Can we get pay-per-view just for this one night?

We can cancel it right after, I promise. Yeah, in 1975, I'm like two years old. It's like this is the time for the thriller in Manila.

No, no, none of that. No, for me, George Foreman was a one-time boxer that I'd never heard of other than he was a pastor. I used to see his pictures playing the trumpet. The trumpet playing pastor who was a boxer or something like that. I remember reading an article on him. So that's all I knew about him. But Muhammad Ali, that name, I mean, it doesn't matter how old you were.

You heard that name. Oh yeah, everybody, even to this day, if you say Muhammad Ali, everybody knows he floats like butterfly stings, like a bee. But I didn't know, because we were talking about this yesterday, I didn't realize that George Foreman went on to become a Christian and to become a pastor.

I didn't know that either. Yeah, he can work out. When you see his, there was a documentary out, I think it was back in, I want to say 1999, or maybe even in the 2000s, I believe it was. Maybe somebody can fact check me on that, where there was a documentary out on the rumble in the jungle. And when you see the actual original footage of George Foreman getting off the plane, and he's got this royal robe on him. He is the king. He's going to defeat Muhammad Ali. I mean, very quickly, he stopped connecting with the people of the Congo, because he didn't look like their guy. I mean, although both George Foreman and Muhammad Ali were blacks, but to them, to the people in Africa, were like, I connect with Muhammad Ali. He represents somebody who's going to fight for us.

George Foreman comes down with two German shepherds, and that actually represented the oppression of the colonial times. My man goofed up a little bit. He goofed up really badly, because he was like, I thought people would love me, I'm like the star.

Like the king coming back home to reclaim the throne or something. And they're like, no, we don't like you, because you represent people who oppressed us. I mean, they just kind of went downhill for him. Yeah, I bet. Maybe that's why he lost the fight.

Well, I don't know. It was a tough fight. I know you've watched some of it. I watched some highlights from it, yeah. Right. So, it was tough.

Yeah. I actually, see, because I'm kind of like you, like, my dad was really into boxing, so I was growing up, but that was like the Mike Tyson Holyfield era, like of the 90s. And I was just seeing it.

I wasn't following it. I was a little kid. Now, you're talking about Mike Tyson Holyfield fight, the one where he bit off the ear.

Yeah, I was in Athens, Georgia. Some of us friends went to watch the fight. And at the time, pay-per-view means you go to the movie theater.

Not always. I mean, you could do it somehow at home, too. But pay-per-view for us was going to the theater, and there are no movies at that hour. You just sit there and you watch the movie, I mean, the fight that you paid for. And it was crazy. We got popcorn.

We got drinks. Fight began. And Mike Tyson bit Holyfield's ear. And we're like, did he just do that?

I don't know. I think it was just like trying to just kind of, you know, mess him up or whatever. And then he did it again. Yeah, he did it twice.

And this time he bit it off. I mean, it was, oh. And it's fun. It's funny to like, well, not funny, but it's interesting because like I saw that as a kid because my dad had it on tape.

And so I would go down in the basement and he'd be watching like his boxing tapes. And so it was funny because I saw it after it was already like legendary. But to see it live happening in real time, it's like part of sports history. That moment of, did that happen? Did we really just see that? Yeah. And it was the talk.

Oh, yeah. You know, it was the talk. How could one athlete do this to another? Is this even possible?

What happened here? I mean, it went on for months. Speaking of Mike Tyson is funny because I actually saw, he's really big into podcasting now. Oh, is he? Yeah, I think he and Holyfield have a podcast together. Really? Mm-hmm. They're friends now.

Or they just do a lot of podcast tours. I don't know if it's their podcast, but I've seen a bunch of interviews of those two together and somebody actually asked Tyson, you in your prime versus Muhammad Ali in his prime. And he was like, not only would I lose, I think I wouldn't even step in the ring. I wouldn't even. He said that the speed that guy had was so impressive.

He said, I wouldn't even attempt it. Yeah, he was very good at what he did and very light on his feet. And of course, what he would call it, I campaigned. You know, so he would trash talk before the game and he would, before the fight, and he would trash talk throughout the publicity tour. And, you know, sometimes he even got into his opponent's heads and they lost before they even started fighting.

Ain't that crazy how that worked? Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that I didn't realize about Muhammad Ali was that that wasn't his birth name.

Right. That wasn't his given name. Cassius Clay.

Mm-hmm. Cassius Clay. Yeah, that was his name. And Joe Frazier refused to call him that. He kept calling him Cassius Clay, which made him more and more mad or madder and madder. Yeah.

And so that really irritated him. And it's because Muhammad Ali, you know, reportedly, I wasn't there when he did that, was converted to Nation of Islam. Mm-hmm.

So for whatever reason, that was the reason behind that. Is that different than just being a follower of the Islam? Yes. Okay.

Because Islam is sort of an American form of Islam that has ties with black nationalism and other Muslims, Sunni and Shiite, consider it a heresy. Okay. So or consider it heretical. Okay. So that is a Nation of Islam.

Okay. And that's what Muhammad Ali was a part of. So it's very nationalistic and antisemitic type movement. And that's where his roots are. Was he outspoken about his beliefs? He was.

In those early days, the interviews were held and he would very, very clearly say what he thought. Wow. And, you know, that white people are devil and all those kinds of things. And it's just, even Muslims consider that view heretical.

In fact, the Italian Association of Muslims even put a fatwa against the Nation of Islam. Really? Yeah.

This is some time back. What does that mean? It means that they, it's like, take them out. Oh, wow. Oh, no.

Like, for a hit. Like, wow. Yeah.

They were really making some moves. Yeah. Wow. So it was, it still is very questionable. Now, your dad was born into a Muslim family.

Right. My dad was. He was born into an actual, like, traditional Muslim. Sunni. He was born into a Sunni family, although they have Shiite part of the family as well. And as I've talked about, I don't try to mention that a lot.

Sure. But, you know, he came from a royal family. So, one of the things that royalties know is that you got to keep the masses happy, the people happy. So part of the family, most of the family, I would say, let's just say 70% would be Sunni.

But then there is that 20, 25% that were also Shiites. And so that way you kind of have a balance there. You kind of keep the population feeling represented or feeling happy. Right. Exactly.

The world is represented. Okay. But he was Sunni before he became a Christian. And he became a Christian, how old, what was his age when he converted? Probably about 19. Okay. Wow. Young. 19, 20 years, oh yeah, very young. Okay. That's not the age that people get converted. Right.

As you would think. But, of course, he heard the gospel. He searched for the gospel.

And he found Christ and his life changed forever. Do you want to tell that, just if someone's joining us for the first time, maybe they've never heard that story. Yeah.

You can always go back to our very, very first episode on this podcast. But maybe just someone who's listening on the radio, do you want to tell your dad's conversion story? Yeah, sure.

Absolutely. I always look forward to the chance to share that story because it is so much like his namesake. You know, he was named after the apostle Paul. It's a name that I think he took for himself, but he was a strong Muslim, grew up in a very wealthy home, very educated home, family members going to high level universities, colleges. And, but there was always something in his heart that things were not right. In fact, he saw his grandfather praying one day and his grandfather was a haji, haji meaning somebody who's been to Hajj, Hajj is the pilgrimage to Mecca.

And after he was finished praying, like you have those five times a day prayer, my father told his grandfather, my great grandfather, that, you know, God has a special place for you in heaven because of how pious you are and how dedicated you are to do what you do. Your father was a little boy at the time? Yeah, I would say little boy or maybe even early teens. Early teenager.

Yeah. And his grandfather had tears in his eyes and he said, you know, I don't know for sure if I'll be in heaven. It's all up to Allah's mercy. It's all up to him on that day. And so just that statement that you do not have the assurance of salvation left such a question mark in his mind regarding the Islamic faith, regarding his religion. Such a question mark, like how is that possible that you can do everything right and yet it cannot be promised to you that you'll have heaven. So why do you do it?

Because it's the right thing to do. So you may go to hell. Yes, there's a good possibility I may go to hell.

And I think that's something that maybe you can even speak to. That's why doctrine is so important. Like there's even Christians who believe that there's no assurance, there's no guarantee or even that if you can get your salvation, you can lose it later.

Which means there really is no definite assurance for some Christians. Or it's a form of election in salvation where you can do whatever you want to. If you're not the elect, you're not the elect.

And how do you get to be the elect? Well, that's up to God. You see, that's why I cannot go along with a doctrine like that. Because biblically it doesn't represent God. And even exegetically I would say it doesn't represent what God's character is. I mean, it seems like you're taking Muslim doctrine and just applying it to Christianity.

Maybe not purposely. Yeah, I don't think there's a connection there. But yeah, in a sense I can see a parallel.

I don't think that the Christian doctrine was influenced. I don't think that's what you're saying. No, I'm saying that people who believe that are saying that they're Christians but living as Muslims that have no hope. It's like, well, it's up to God, whatever he chooses.

Right, right. And that's an extreme form of determination or determinism. And that's not what we believe. So that began his quest. And then he had some near-death experiences. Then he had his cousin who later became a Christian. Well, he became a pastor. But his cousin at the time was in college with him.

They were roommates. And his cousin would pray. He would take the time to read his Bible and pray.

And my dad was really bothered by that. And he would on purpose do his namaz, do his five times a day prayer just to aggravate each other. And he would argue with his cousin.

He would challenge his cousin, all that kind of stuff. Were they living together? They were in a dorm.

They were in a dorm, okay. But was it, I guess, was that shameful for his family that his cousin was a Christian at that point? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like that family, that person went rogue.

Okay, yeah, okay. Something is up in that family, to be honest with you, because that cousin, of course. And then one of my grandfather's brothers, my dad's uncle, moved to England and became Christians. So it's like that family had the gospel coming in somehow, albeit it didn't get to my grandfather. This may be something that's new for our listeners, but I think a lot of people would assume that because you grew up in India and your grandfather, I'm sorry, your father grew up in India, that they would have automatically been Hindu rather than Muslim. But does India have or did it have at that time a large Muslim population? Yes, yeah.

Because I didn't, when I first met you, I didn't know that. Yeah. Almost like an 80-20 population, 80 percent Hindus, 20 percent Muslims. Wow.

Yeah. Now prior to the partition, right, India and Pakistan were one country. Prior to the partition, the percentages were quite different.

But then when the partition happened and the Muslims drove away the Hindus from Pakistan or that part of the country that became Pakistan, when the Hindus drove away the Muslims from India or the part of the country that is now India, that's when the percentages shifted where Pakistan became majority Muslim and India became majority Hindu. Prior to that, it was, you know, I'm not going to say 50-50, but close. Are those about the same that they are today or have those numbers changed any? You mean in the sense of the 80-20? No, I think it's about the same.

About the same. Yeah. And the thing about the Muslims in India is there are two kinds of Muslims who remained in India. One were the rich who had lots of land, businesses. There's a reason for them to move so that we're not leaving. This is our home.

We're going to protect what we have. And the very poor because they couldn't move. They didn't have anything. Where are they going to go? So the middle class of Muslims definitely moved. I'm not saying every single middle class Muslim moved in 1947 or 1948. No, no, but what I'm saying is majority of the middle class left. Those who could sell and had the understanding and the willpower and just the ability to restart, they moved. And so what remained in India were people like my dad's family who were rich.

We're staying. So now your dad is a practicing Muslim. He's in college with his Christian cousin. Yes. They're at odds with each other.

Yes. And so now somehow he is converted. He begins to search. And he tries Hinduism. He tries Buddhism. He even tries communism. I didn't know that. Yeah, he tried communism just because, keep in mind, this is the 50s. Right. Communism is infiltrating every part of the world.

And even in America, communism was trying to make its inroad. So he tried that as well, and then he came to realize that there is no answer here. And so reluctantly he bought himself a Bible and began to read it. And he came to John 3.16, and it changed his life. Wow.

Yeah. That was the verse. Yeah, that was the eye-opening moment where he saw Christ, and he gave his life to Jesus Christ. And of course, as you know, the story goes, he told his father. His father gave him the ultimatum, and that was it. And he had to leave his home that night. And when he walked out that door, that was the turning point.

And he didn't know it at the time, but that was the turning point in all of our lives, really. Yes. Yeah.

Because of that decision, he had you, and you moved here, and now we have Clearview Church and we have this radio show. And there are so many lives that have been affected and improved by that one decision almost, what, 70, 80 years ago? Right.

Maybe 60 years ago? Yeah, of course. He set that in faith. Yeah. And so when I hear about Muhammad Ali being part of the Nation of Islam and all those kind of things, my heart breaks for people like that because they're looking for hope, and they're looking for peace, and they're looking for forgiveness, looking for a savior, but in all the wrong places because the Nation of Islam is not the truth. That's right.

Right? Even Muslims don't accept it, Sunnis or Shiites. And so we need to share the Gospel. We need to be aware of why we believe what we believe. We need to know these things because there is a fight. Right. And it's not the rumble in the jungle. Right.

It's not the thriller in Manila. It's not the fight of the century in 1971 with Joe Frazier, I guess, again, right? This is a real fight, and that's for the soul of every man, woman, boy, and girl. That's right. And it's Jesus Christ who wants to win that fight. That's right.

And I know you've said it before, but I love that outlook that when we fight, we actually fight hiding behind Christ. Yes. Yes.

I love that because it takes all the pressure and all of the—maybe not the pressure, but it takes all of the immediacy off of us and puts it where it belongs, which is Christ. Yeah. He's our fighter. That's right.

So good. And who would have thought that we would have gotten to the Gospel from boxing? Bro. And I love boxing, by the way.

Yeah. I do. It's fun. I love fights. I love MMA. Same. I like it a lot, too. Good stuff.

I love it. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, if you have questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com and be a part of what God is doing through this show. We believe that God is moving and that He's using this show, using this platform to get the Gospel. There are many people. Join us.

Partner with us financially, and I would love to send you something in the mail if you do so. Let us know by marking in that gift box that it is from at ClearView Today Show. John, what's coming up on tomorrow's episode? Spooky scary skeletons. We're all going to do the Monster Mash live on Clear View today. We will sing the Monster Mash. Join us tomorrow. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today.