Wednesday, October 18th | Science vs. Christianity?

Hello, everyone. Today is Wednesday, October the 18th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm Jon Galantis. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

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We're going to leave a link in the description of this podcast so you can do just that. And the verse of the day today comes from Psalm chapter 95, verses 6 and 7. O come, let us worship and bow down. Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker, for He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture, the sheep of His hand. I love, I love the Psalms.

They are so in tune with the heart of a true worshiper. Let us worship and bow down. Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker, saying, like, this is our place. And this is our response is to get as low as we possibly can.

Why? Because He's our God and we're the people of His pasture. And that shepherd imagery is so prevalent throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament with Jesus. And that's why He says, I am that good shepherd.

I just think there's such, it's such underrated poetry and art throughout all the Psalms. There's a beauty in that comparison with the sheep and the shepherd. Sheep by nature are not smart animals. That's true. Nor are they able to defend themselves. They are, they are in all circumstances, pray. Completely helpless.

Yeah. So they, they will stick close to the voice of their shepherd. They know the voice of their shepherd so much so that if there are other shepherds out there, they'll respond to the voice of their shepherd. And they, they feel that closeness, that, that protection. They don't come to their shepherd with like, now the grass here is really just like, it's just really coarse and it's just kind of, there's, there's a weird flavor.

There's a weird aftertaste. The grass over there, now I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I'm going to go over there. No sheep are doing that. They're like, I will follow where you lead me. That's true.

And I, I find safety at your feet and that should be our posture with God. That's right. Speaking of going after food that tastes better. Uh, we have started going to this Mexican restaurant in town.

Well, well, let me rephrase. There was a Mexican restaurant in our town, but then they opened up a new location. So now there's two of the same restaurant in our town. One's downtown. Both within driving distance. I mean, they're close by. Yeah. One's downtown and one's uptown where we are. And so we started going to this one and I came to a revelation that I've always known in my animal hind brain and I've never really put into words. Mexican restaurants are like those memes that you see online where like the longer you look at it, the more details you start to notice. You know what I mean? There's so much stuff and yet it doesn't look crowded. I don't understand how a restaurant or really any building can have as many pro like, like if you saw our studio right now, I know you, if you're listening on the radio, you can't, but we have like a shelf, a couple of plants.

Dr. Shaw has his cowboy stuff. You can't see it in my shot. Yeah. There's like a guitar foam on the walls. Ryan has a picture and a lamp and a couple of things.

That's it. And this room feels kind of crowded. A Mexican restaurant will have 50 times the props that I just mentioned and look completely open and clean. I don't get it.

It's like the more you look at it, the more stuff you start to see. Interior designers, man. They, they must be like working overtime in Mexican restaurants. There's a, there's a, there's a gentleman who, who, uh, I think he owns the Mexican restaurant. The guy that we talked to, is he the owner? He, I was talking to him and I know that he loves the Dallas Cowboys. So I saw a little prop that he had like a little sign that had his Dallas Cowboys. I was like, Oh, how about them Cowboys? You know, just making, he's like, Oh yeah, I gotta have my Cowboys.

I got one right there and I got one right there. And then I got this one here and I got, and he pointed out like five props that completely were invisible until he pointed them out and they were just on display, but I just never noticed them at all. And I wonder why that is, especially in Mexican restaurants. Clever, clever design choices. I guess you don't see it in Italian restaurants.

You don't, it's not the same. I mean, I've only noticed it and sometimes, sometimes you'll see that in like a Chinese restaurant. Sometimes I feel like I've seen it there, but definitely more so in a Mexican restaurant. I have a lot of respect for interior designers because I have agonized over this room because this room is small. This room we're in is, is really, it's pretty small.

This was a Sunday school room. Yeah. And um, you know, it's just difficult cause I'm like, let's add a pipe and drape and let's add some lights and let's add this and let's add that. And then it just feels smaller. Kind of the wall start closing in. All right, let's take all the stuff out and make it feel bigger. And then it's like, all right, now the room looks empty.

It's like, what do I do? There's definitely an art to it. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. An art and a science and you know, I feel like clever interior design, clever interior decorating really drives toward the purpose of the facility.

That's true. Maybe we can talk some more about that on, on maybe today's episode or a later episode. What, what we can communicate through interior design, even more churches are concerned. I'm interested in know Dr. Shaw's thoughts on that. We're going to move forward in the episode, but if you guys have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028.

Let us know if that's been your experience at Mexican restaurants as well. Some clever design choices. Keep those props hidden, but they are still definitely there. Visit us online at cleareadtodayshow.com. Stay tuned.

We'll be back after this. Hey there, listeners. I'm John Galantis.

And I'm Ellie Galantis. And we just want to take a quick second and talk to you about Dr. Shaw's and Nicole's book, 30 Days to a New Beginning. Daily devotions to help you move forward.

You know, this is actually the second book in the 30 days series. And the whole point of this devotional is to help us get unstuck from the ruts of life. You know, when it comes to running the race of life, it matters how you start, but a bad start doesn't ultimately determine how you finish the race. You can have a good finish, even with a bad start. And that's where this book comes in.

No matter who you are or where you are in life, you're going to get stuck. Instead of going out and buying some gadget or some planner, like I know I've done several times, 30 Days encourages you to find your fresh start in God's word. Life doesn't have a reset button, but our God is a God who does new things.

His mercies are new every day, which means every day is a new chance for you to start over. You can grab 30 Days to a New Beginning on Amazon.com. We're going to leave a link in the description box below. And if you already have the book, let us know what you think about it.

That's right. Send us a text, 252-582-5028. Share what God has done in your life through this devotional. Hey, maybe we'll even read your story on the air. Ellie, you ready to get back to the show? Let's do it.

All right. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, a daily show that engages mind and heart in the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text, 252-582-5028.

That's right. If this is your first ever episode, you've never listened to the show before, we're going to let you know exactly who's talking to you today. Dr. Abbadan Shah is a PhD in Testing and Textual Criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. You can find all of his work on his website.

That's AbbadanShah.com. And he took us for a treat for lunch today at a Mexican restaurant, a taco treat, if you will. A taco treat. It was, it was a beefy, a cheesy, a saucy treat. Yes.

Yeah. And we were talking earlier on the show about how most, maybe not all, but most... A hundred percent. I've never been to all Mexican restaurants. I can't say this across the board, but most Mexican restaurants, they have these little hidden props in there. What I mean by that is like, the more you look, the more things you find, like just little knickknacks and stuff that are like in a window somewhere or at the cash register or on a table or, and it's like, oh, there's one. Oh, there's another one. Oh, there's 17 that I didn't even know were here.

You ever play Where's Waldo? So what are some of the props that you've seen? Well, the ones we saw today were like the Cowboys memorabilia. There was like five or six different Cowboys memorabilia's. There's like little parrots up in the corner.

There's, there's like the, sometimes they have the, not the hula girls, but like the little, the little desk toys, they've got the faces, they've got them gigantic paintings and murals on the walls. Some dude holding a woman. Some dude holding the woman. She's like dead.

Yeah. Like she's not even fainted. She's just completely dead. Like if you... She's not fainted. She's gone.

She has, unfortunately. There's like three wolves howling at the moon. Like, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

More than likely there's a native American just slumped over a horse. Yup. Yup.

Yup. And it's like the more you look, the more you see. And I'm like, this is starting to hurt my brain a little bit. And yet it never looks like overly crowded. It doesn't look cluttered.

It doesn't look like too much. They're masters of space and decorating. I don't get it. I don't know if it's just a Mexican restaurant thing, but I mean, maybe Chinese restaurants have that too. So we talked about that. I've seen it some in Chinese restaurants too.

Not as much as Mexican restaurants, but you'd be able to like go into the cash register to pay for your meal and like, oh, there's a little statue right there. Oh, there's another little thing right there. Oh, where did all this stuff come from? Before I know it, I'm surrounded by 20 statues of little kittens. Yeah.

Where did this all come from? I think that's certainly there some, but I've certainly noticed it a lot in Mexican restaurants. I think it's partly because many of our restaurants in the Western world are just chain restaurants where you're not allowed to put things like that. That's true. Or you could go to McDonald's and have like a bunch of pictures of howling wolves. McNacks. Yeah.

You can't decorate it at all. Or go to Taco Bell and have a bunch of, I don't know, gnomes. Little troll dolls. You know the little troll dolls with the chimney neutron hair? Straight up hair. Something doesn't match.

One is from South, another one is from the North. It's like, oh, I just liked them a little bit. They just kind of showed my personality. Like we don't do that.

We don't do personality here. I think it's probably because most of our restaurants are chains and they are required not to mess with that chain. Everything is corporate mandated.

You can only use like these decorations that we've sent you. Well, you know, Wednesday doesn't have to only be about Mexican foods and their hilariously, absurdly large number of props. That's true. Wednesday can also be a lot of other things.

That's true. Wednesday can also be about how to defend your faith because it is intense Wednesday. You know, we didn't even announce last week that it was Contends Day Wednesday. We just went right into it. We were so excited to get into the apologetics.

That's true. Contends Day Wednesday. For those of you who don't know what that is, Contends Day Wednesday is a chance for us to dive into the world of apologetics and defending our faith and giving a reason for the hope that's in us.

And the Contends Day Wednesday is just a cutesy name that we, of course, came up with. But Contends is that series that Dr. Shah, you've done here at Clearview and we're jumping back into. The third year of Contends.

Yes. And one, two, three. Contends one was in 2021, two, of course, 2022. And this year is three. And for anyone listening, Dr. Shah is referring to his sermons. And so we are going through on the podcast, we're kind of we're entering into that season two arc now.

It's kind of cool. It kind of reminds me of like a show that you would watch those season two arc of Contends, which actually took off. Season three. Well, season three, as far as the sermons go. Right.

Got you. But here is season two. Yeah.

We're just scratching the surface of season two. And last week on Wednesday, we talked about how modern science does not conflict with Christianity. Right. Many people think that it does.

Right. Modern science was birthed in the cradle of Christianity as believers in our Western world began to explore their world with the understanding, with the conviction that the creator God was a God of order. Now, don't forget or don't misunderstand that I'm saying that ancient people were always just every single one of them were just pagan, heathen, worshiping idols and gods and goddesses or their ancestors or just pantheist or panentheist.

I am not for a single moment saying that. But overall, the Judeo-Christian principles allowed us to see that God is in control and that this universe is subjected to his order. And we, as God's crown of creation, human beings are not just one of the created beings. We're not just one with the animal kingdom or just a higher form of some evolutionary chain. We are distinct. We are made in the image of God. We have been given the authority to rule.

We are given the power to harness nature and use it for our benefit. Hence, science was still birth. As one of the authors said, I think it was Stanley Jackie who said that science was still birth until Christianity really took hold and really took hold of the Western world. Now, mathematics was there. I mean, all you have to do is go to Egypt and see how the pyramids are so perfectly built. Gunpowder was there.

All you have to do is go to China and see how thousands of years they knew what gunpowder was all about. But science is different. And that's what we focused on in our last radio show. Well, I think it's one of those things that people look at and they take titles like the Middle Ages or the Dark Ages and they think that it was just superstitions, closed-minded, religious authorities just always coming down on people. But I like how you've said it.

I think you said this last week. That's where modern science actually grew because of those Judeo-Christian values that were going on. Yeah. I mean, the monasteries were not little dead zones with monks just sitting in their little caves and doing nothing but prayers. They were actually copying manuscripts. They were copying the Bible. This is where, if you read how the Irish saved civilization, this is where, when the Vikings were coming down, destroying things and all of that, the light was burning, but it was burning in these monasteries, in these places where knowledge was being kept alive.

Science was being kept alive. And then it really burst forth with the coming of what we know as the Renaissance or Reformation. But it really took hold in that scientific revolution that began in the period leading up to the 17th century. We talked a little bit last week about some of the tropes that people like to throw in Christianity's face, like Galileo's one, like always being the scapegoat where the Roman Catholic Church persecuted Galileo. And they attribute that to just Christianity as a whole.

Right. Which is not true. So it is correct that in 1616, that the Roman Catholic Church affirmed the Copernican theory that the earth goes around the sun, heliocentricism, as false and heretical. About 16 years later, Galileo was charged with heresy and told to recant, which he supposedly did while gritting his teeth.

This is how it's like a Southern mom, like just talking right through it, you were gritting on my last nerve. And this is also not true. In fact, the reigning theory was the Ptolemaic view, geocentricism, which was based on Aristotelian physics and barely 10 astronomers went along with the Copernicus's theory, which had no physics to back it up. So ever since Thomas Aquinas had backed up Aristotelian philosophy, the church was stuck with it. So to really explain in a better way, the church was defending Aristotelian science rather than opposing Galileo.

I've read articles, I've read posts and blogs by people. I even heard people in scholarly circles discuss how the church was so backward and how they interpreted the sun rising in the East as if the sun was revolving. That is not true. And it's your ignorance that is showing because when you actually study history and you read the writings of people in medieval times and see some of the things that they were postulating and experimenting and writing and drawing conclusions, they were brilliant. It's your superficial understanding of history that says that people back in the medieval times were just so clueless that they read the Bible and they heard about the sun rising and from that they said, well, sun rising, well, it's got to be the sun revolving around the earth.

That's not true. Read some of the things. I've read mathematical works coming out of, and I don't know mathematics, it's not science, but I've read some of these works coming from the 11th, 12th century, not all of it, just parts of it. And I'm like, why don't people know about these people? Because that will change our view of the ancients, of the medieval people.

Yeah. Do you feel like there's almost like a predisposition or a bias against medieval people? Like there's a desire to make them seem dumb. Because some of the decisions that came from the Roman Catholic Church during that period were sort of bad and there was a sense of close mindedness and yes, there was also some debauchery that went on. So the established church, Roman Catholicism, was looked upon as this authority that controlled people's lives and rejected knowledge and truth. And to some parts, yes, I can say, yeah, that's true that we can see evidence of that, but I don't think that's the whole picture. There was a lot more going on and it requires serious study.

And I've done that. I've studied. In fact, one of my first papers was on science and Christianity in my PhD work. I'm glad you bring that up, Dr. Shah, because it seems, and I could be thinking about this wrong, but it seems like science is supposed to be this independent thing where we observe and we test and we question things. But now it seems like professors, like secular professors or even maybe just atheists, they kind of own that world. So when you question them, you're not even a scientist. Right, right. Especially with regards to things like global warming or climate change or the ice age, questioning some of these things is like, this is not your, what's the word for that? This is not your platform, your field, your expertise.

You need to stay over there. And I don't know what you do as a church, but go ahead and do that, but don't bother the people and don't try to proselytize, just stay there. So I think that's how the world wants us to be. And I'm not going to personally even do that kind of an attitude. Well, it just kind of closes down the conversation, which is, I think, what got us into this mess to begin with, like saying who can and can't be in this conversation.

It's like, yeah, you can be in it, but nobody's going to take you seriously. Well, that's not good either. You know, that's not conducive to the conversation we're trying to have.

I don't know that that side even wants a conversation anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's almost this thing where science is already established because we all agree, we like it, you know what I mean? And you people are the enemies of knowledge and truth. And all you have done through the ages is persecute people who fearlessly, undauntingly went after the truth and you need to be silent. So like one of the things I agree, what I'm saying is that's how the world or this this intelligentsia wants to treat church. Definitely.

Definitely. And I agree that. And I think you can see that when people defend claims, like one of the things that I know you believe in a young earth, the earth is maybe not only six to seven thousand years old. People will tell you, well, that's not what science says. But like who is saying, like science can't tell you anything.

This is not a well-established thing that is just gospel truth. This is a conversation that we're still having. But they're like, we've already moved past that.

Why are you still saying stuff like that? And not only just that, but there's other issues as well. Yeah. Yeah. So another thing about the Galileo, if you want to go back to because we began talking about him and sort of left him, he had an abrasive personality. So he had tried to tell the theologians how to do their job. And that was a big no, no, you don't do that. Yeah.

So they were not happy with Galileo, no matter if he said something like, I don't know, make up something. Like, I think this table is actually made out of unicorn teeth. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I can prove it. Yeah.

Or this table is black and made out of wood. They won't like him either. Really? So even if it's verifiably true, they'd be like, yeah, we don't care for this guy. They wanted him out. Yeah.

Because he just had a personality. So all that to say is this, the church should never attach itself with any particular view of the world. Just make sure whatever your view of the world is, or the worldview is, let it come from scriptures and then stand on it. But if somebody out there is proposing or propagating something, I mean, we have gotten in trouble over the years and we don't seem to learn that lesson.

Don't attach yourself to any system that cannot be verified through scripture. So it's all right to learn and adapt, but don't make it on the same level as the Bible. Yeah, exactly. I think that's exactly what we're trying to say is that a lot of these conversations, like evolution or like the age of the earth, it's like, we're done talking about that because it's established its truth, it can't change.

We can't change our minds on that. Which is not true. Right. Yeah. And unfortunately, science was supposed to be sort of an independent enterprise, but now it is again at the mercy of secular professors and avowed atheists. And so if you question science and you know, of course, you're not a scientist.

And by the way, that's known as the no true Scotsman fallacy. Oh, really? Yeah. So another one that you hear often is science tells us, and you just talked about it a few moments ago. How does science tell you?

What is that? Science. Yeah.

It's known as the reification fallacy where people assign personal qualities to some abstract ideas. Science tells us who, which, please. And it's kind of like you said, it's like, now I'm feeling afraid to question.

It's almost like I'm questioning the Bible, like, oh, well, if science says that, then I... Haven't we heard that in the past three, four years? Oh, yeah. Yes. Who is science? Yeah.

Who is science? We are. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Tell your pastor to sit down and let's listen to... Now we've come full circle. Yeah. Now we see what you're really saying. We should listen to you. Yeah.

Oh, okay. So it's a lot of things that we need to understand. And I think going forward as Christians, we cannot stick our head in the sand and let the experts deal with issues because what they are saying becomes the mandate and then it becomes the law and then your lives are turned upside down, especially with regards to faith and practice. So do you want to still stick your head in the sand?

I would say don't. Question things, get back to the Bible, let the Bible be our guide. And I want to chastise not just Roman Catholicism here, but also Protestantism here because sometimes the Westminster Confession becomes more important than the Bible. And my word to you guys is as long as it's clearly reflecting the Word of God, yes. But don't make anything or anyone so superior that you lose sight of what you're doing.

Again, please realize I'm very conservative in that way. And I believe in moral values, ethical values, all those things are there. But I want to make sure, let the Bible be the thing that we defend fearlessly and whatever conclusions are drawn from them, whether it's the Westminster Confession of faith or the Baptist faith in message, all these things I believe in. Or other things that we once in a while write up a confession or we write a resolution regarding certain things going on in our world society. Just make sure they're being backed up with scripture.

And I appreciate your heart in that conversation so much. Even the flip side of that where you're encouraging believers, don't be scared of science. Don't be afraid of scientific research and discovery because ultimately we serve the God who is the author of science. We serve the one who has the scientific principles and things put in place.

So if you are worried that the more you learn about science and the world around you is going to impact your faith, is going to shake your faith, you can take a look at your faith, how firmly that's established. Exactly. I think also look at the motive, we gain nothing if you guys start thinking in this way. We personally as men, you are the one who's gaining because you're coming back to the Bible.

It's like you said, you know what I mean? The scientists who would, or the, I don't even say the scientists, but the people out there with agendas who would have you turn away from the Bible and turn away from God, they gain because Christianity just lost one more person, I think, which is ultimately part of their goal is to kind of do away with that. But we personally don't gain by you turning to the Bible.

You are the one who God is going to work through. You know what I'm saying? Like there's no, there's no like, it's not like in the Roman Catholic church where we hold onto authority by leading you away from the truth.

It's not like that. So important. I love this discussion. I love our Contends Day Wednesday episodes. Make sure you guys stay tuned on these Wednesday episodes. We're going to continue to dive further into season two as we talk about creation, as we talk about science, as we talk about how we can understand our faith in relation to those things. Dr. Josh, what encouragement would you give people as we're closing our show today who are maybe looking at science, who are interested in pursuing a career in science, but are kind of figuring out how to reconcile their scientific leanings with their faith? We need more and more believers in the scientific world. We need people who are not afraid of knowledge, of truth. We want people who are genuinely, objectively willing to learn from scriptures and then go out there and practice it. Go to the high level institutions, Harvard, Princeton, MIT, whatever.

Go to these places, study from there, and stand fast to your convictions in the Bible and then talk about it to other people, educate people. Nothing in the world wrong with that. We need more and more of that.

Love that. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. Make sure to visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com and scroll down to the bottom, click that donate button, and every gift that you give goes not only to building up this radio show, but countless other ministries for the gospel. We emphasize that at the end of every radio show, but we want you to know that we do value your partnership.

We count you as part of our Clearview Today Show family, and we are grateful for each one of you. Jon, what are we talking about on tomorrow's episode? We're going to be talking about how to put that anxiety to work.

Yeah, man. It was based on a series that Dr. Shudd did a few years back. I think it was called Putting Anxiety to Work. How to make it work for good in your life. You're never going to completely get rid of it, but how to leverage it for the gospel. So good. I know that's a struggle for a lot of people as things like anxiety and trying to figure out that road. So if that's you or if you have a loved one who struggles with anxiety, make sure you tune in for tomorrow's episode. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.