The Importance of the Resurrection (pt. 2)

Welcome back, everyone. Today is Wednesday, June 14th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm sleep-deprived. And you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions for Dr. Shaw or suggestions for new topics like why John should get more sleep, send us a text at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com. And you guys can help us keep this conversation going by supporting the show, sharing it online, leaving us a good review on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content from.

We're going to leave a link in the description of this podcast, so you can do just that. And today's verse of the day is coming to us from 2 Thessalonians 1-11. Therefore, we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness and the work of faith with power. I love the times when Paul mentions that he prays for the people he's writing to, because it's just a reminder of that faith relationship that he had with those churches and the individuals that he wrote letters to, especially the letters to the Thessalonians. Those are some of the most uplifting and encouraging letters, because Paul treasured his relationship with the Thessalonians. We pray always for you that God would count you worthy of this calling and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness and work of that faith with power. Just to know that someone is praying for you, and someone like Paul is praying for you, lifting you up before God. That gives you encouragement to face difficult times in life.

It's a give-and-take relationship, as well. I was looking for the reciprocal relationship, because Paul is praying, but then our conduct as a church matters. The things we do as a church, we live on faith, but it's that God would count us worthy of this calling. God, how can I be worthy? Yes, it's by faith in Christ. But it's also the things we do. Fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness and the work of faith with power. The things that we do as a church, the outreach events that we help, the people that we help, the good things that we do, of course they don't contribute to our salvation, because it's never Jesus plus something else.

That being said, the things that we do, we demonstrate our love for God and for people by the things that we do as a church. I'm not even sleep-deprived. I'm slowly losing my mind. I've watched the Mario movie, I think, about 15 times since its release on digital. That's a lot, because it just came out.

It just came out. My son watches it every day. He watches it every single day. Mario and Weegee. The first time that we talked about it on the show, I was like, I like Mario.

It's still pretty cute. I'm starting to reach the end of my rope, because it's on wherever I'm at. Wherever he is, the movie is playing.

It brings him some sort of comfort. I don't know. That's a very little kid move, is just repeating the same movie. Did your little kids watch the same movie as on repeat?

Oh, man. I could quote Frozen to you. Really?

Probably even now. Who watched Frozen? The girls or all of them? The twins and Evie. That was in the heyday of when they were growing up, watching movies. We watched Frozen.

I'm pretty sure we watched it three times in one day. Elsa was in my dreams, just wandering through, freezing stuff. I'm like, Elsa, go home.

What are you doing? Go home. I wanted to say, chill out, but that probably would be bad advice for her. How many times did you get your feelings hurt?

Just chill out. Exactly. Frozen was one. Moana was another one. Oh, I remember Joanna loved Moana. A little bit later, Joanna did love Moana.

Oh, man. Ellie used to keep Joanna in the nursery. She used to come home humming the songs. She'd be like, if I hear these songs one more time, I'm going to drive my head right through that window. You'll catch yourself just walking around, singing the songs. You're like, I'm losing it. My mind is leaking out of my ears right now.

At least songs I would be fine with. Me, I'm doing a task right, and I'm like, wahoo. I get some food, and I'm like, yippee! Somebody asks you what you want to eat, and you're like, peaches, peaches, peaches.

I love you. I'm happy to see him happy, but I'm starting to go crazy. Cocomelon was the worst. The Cocomelon phase, I will at least say, I'll take Mario over Cocomelon. Cocomelon was so mindless and so droning that I would start to go crazy. I would start to be angry.

You're starting to detach from reality. I've got to talk to an adult. Holden now is to the point where he's five months, so he'll watch Cocomelon. He has no clue what it is, but if he's crying, I'll be like, ha, ha, ha. You want to know the funny thing about Cocomelon?

I've seen this happen. You turn it on for your kids, which, I mean, they're like two and five months old, so yeah, absolutely Cocomelon age. My youngest is four on up.

My oldest will get ready to turn 11. But as soon as that sound comes on, all five of them, without fail, will be like... Yeah, it's something about those big eyes and those big colors. The worst is, you'll put it on, and then it becomes such a routine that it's on that they'll go away. Then I start doing my homework, and Cocomelon's playing on the TV for like an hour, and nobody's watching.

Right. I'm like, why am I listening to this? Why am I listening to this?

It's, oh my gosh, the way it gets in your head, dude. I don't know why little kids do that. But then again, I watch the same movies. I'll just say, I'm sure we did that as kids. I'm sure we had those movies.

I know I did. I still kind of do it. I'll watch Spider-Man 2 any day of the week. Those comfort movies.

Let us know, if you do that or if your kids have done that, what is that movie that has been on repeat for you? Text in and let us know at 252-582-5028. Visit us online at clearveetodayshow.com. We're going to get Dr. Shaw. We've got a great episode planned for you guys, so stay tuned.

We'll be right back. Hey there, listeners. I'm John Galantis.

And I'm Ellie Galantis. And we just want to take a quick second and talk to you about Dr. Shaw's and Nicole's book, 30 Days to a New Beginning, daily devotions to help you move forward. You know, this is actually the second book in the 30 Days series. And the whole point of this devotional is to help us get unstuck from the ruts of life. And when it comes to running the race of life, it matters how you start. But a bad start doesn't ultimately determine how you finish the race. You can have a good finish even with a bad start. And that's where this book comes in. No matter who you are or where you are in life, you're going to get stuck.

Instead of going out and buying some gadget or some planner, like I know I've done several times. I know that's right. 30 Days encourages you to find your fresh start in God's Word. And life doesn't have a reset button. But our God is a God who does new things.

His mercies are new every day, which means every day is a new chance for you to start over. You can grab 30 Days to a New Beginning on Amazon.com. We're going to leave a link in the description box below.

And if you already have the book, let us know what you think about it. And send us a text, 252-582-5028. Share what God has done in your life through this devotional. Hey, maybe we'll even read your story on the air. Ellie, you ready to get back to the show?

Let's do it. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028.

That's right. And if today's your first time ever joining us here on the Clear View Today Show, we want to welcome you, let you know exactly who's talking to you today. Dr. Abbadan Shah is a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, pastor, and the host of today's show.

You can find all of his work on his website. That's AbbadanShah.com. I'm tired. I'm so sleepy. Dr. Shah, his eyes are like... I'm so Marioed out, Dr. Shah. Marioed out. So Marioed out. My son has been watching the Mario movie.

I think this is like the 10th night in a row. Oh, my God. You had four kids. Did they have any movies that they just watched on repeat? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There was, I mean, some of the Disney movies from the early days were the better one, the days.

Oh, yeah. They used to watch those, like Pete's Dragon. One of them used to watch Pete's Dragon all the time. Winnie the Pooh.

All the time. I mean, it was nonstop. There are times where, like, you've quoted, like, Toy Story. What was the, I'm Woody, Howdy, Howdy, Howdy.

And I'd be like, man, that's a deep pull. How do you remember that? You were like, it was on in my house all the time.

I don't know why little kids do that. Just watch it on repeat. Yeah. They like, can I watch that?

It's like, yep, sure. There you go. I can imagine you sitting there trying to write your dissertation, and there's just like, Pete's Dragon or kids' programs just on a loop.

You're writing the script and doing a dissertation and having to backspace. Oh, yeah. That's pretty much how it went.

Too funny. Well, speaking of going to sleep and then waking up, we're continuing our conversation on the resurrection today. Oh, very nice, Ryan. Very nice. Thank you. I can't take credit for that segue, but thank you.

I appreciate that. We're talking about the resurrection. We talked about the resurrection yesterday, began that conversation. But it is such, like you said, Dr. Shaw, a cardinal doctrine for us as believers. It's so important to our understanding of salvation itself.

That's right. And this is not something that was created or picked up in Babylon. This is not something that evolved. I mean, you go back to Genesis chapter 3, 22, and the Lord said, behold, a man has become like one of us to know good and evil. And now lest he put his hand and also take of the tree of life and eat and live forever.

What does that mean? It means he won't die. He will remain in his sin forever, locked into that state. Therefore, the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. It means he sent him out to die so that one day he could be resurrected because of his faith in the coming one, in the seat of the woman.

That's incredible. So think about how merciful God is. So in that sense, we can see how doctrines grow. But the germ is very much there. Like the germ of a seed, like of wheat in the ground, it has all the potential that are needed for that seed to become a full grown tree or crop. Just because it's small doesn't mean it's incapable. It's just in a Germanic form.

But there will come a day when it'll become a full grown tree. So also the doctrine of resurrection was always there. Yeah. And God's people carried it up until we see Christ. The Egyptians, in spite of their faults, in spite of their weaknesses and the lack of truth, the one thing that did believe in very strongly was there is going to be a resurrection. Really?

Yeah, yeah. That's why they built all these tombs and they built all these pyramids and temples so that they can come back into the same valley one day and live the good life. They had a good life. That's how they saw. They saw everything as, man, this is a great life.

Live by the Nile, die in the desert to come back to the Nile. They believe in the resurrection. So they operated under that same hope, even though it was misguided.

It was the hope source. But the idea of a resurrection was there. Now, there were other cultures who didn't have it. There are other cultures who abandoned resurrection.

And it's because for whatever reason there isn't a hope. So even though the Egyptians didn't have the hope, they at least had the idea, the concept still there of resurrection. And the Jewish people, or the people of Israel, let's just talk about the Hebrews, if you want to back up a little more.

They had that concept. When Abraham took Isaac up to Mount Moriah, he told his young men who were with him, stay here with the donkey. The lad and I will go yonder and worship and we will come back to you.

What does that mean? We will come back to you. Did he come back dead or alive?

No. Could it be that he was expecting a resurrection after death? Yeah, he wasn't trying to trick his attendants into letting him take this up here and sacrifice him. He knew, or he believed wholeheartedly, that in some way or another, Isaac was coming back.

He's coming back. I appreciate you pointing that out so much, because oftentimes—and I've struggled with this in the past, too—how do we rationalize Abraham being willing to sacrifice his son? This was not just a father saying, because I love God, I'm going to kill this boy. And that's the way the story's framed all the time.

That's how I learned it growing up as a kid. He just believed God. He loved God so much that he was willing to sacrifice his son. You know, God was willing to do the same for us. But God had that understanding that Christ was coming back. Why do we think that Abraham would be any different? If that story is framed without the resurrection, it does take that path. Abraham loved God so much that he was willing to sacrifice his son.

But Abraham trusted God and knew that God was capable of either sparing Isaac or resurrecting him. And the ram becomes an afterthought. If that's the case, then the ram is just like, hey, you know what?

Just take this. It'll be alright. And it's just like a clean little way to mop the story up. It doesn't become the focal point of the story where it should be. But Hebrews—some people believe that Paul wrote Hebrews.

I lean towards that. But Hebrews 11.17 kind of clears that up. It says, By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, In Isaac your seed shall be called, concluding that God was able to raise him up even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense. It's like if we had to try to put the pieces together reading Genesis, then Hebrews just lays it out.

It's like, hey, guys, here's the answer. Abraham knew that he was going to be raised up. And then later on, we see with Jacob and Joseph, he talks about that. And there are a lot of promises that were given that day to Joseph through Jacob about, hey, make sure you gather me up to my people.

What does that mean? Like the tomb? Gather, bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite. Was it just so they can be like together buried?

No, no. It was so that they can together be resurrected. That's right.

That's right. And be in heaven together. And then Joseph said to his brothers, you know, when he was dying, he said, God will surely visit you and bring you out of this land, to the land which he saw to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And he took an oath from the children of Israel saying God will surely visit you and you shall carry up my bones from here. Why carry up my bones?

I don't want to be here. I want to be resurrected with you. Which of course, no matter where you are, you'll be resurrected.

But you know, they're still learning these doctrines. I think that's something that we tend to overlook is that you shall carry up my bones from here. We have that poetic imagery, even in our culture of bury me here. This is where I want my resting place to be.

They didn't have that. It wasn't that because if you're dead, you really do not care where your bones are. If there's no coming back, if this is truly the end, what do you care where your bones are?

He cared because he knew that those bones were going to come back to life and that this is where I want to be when it happens. These things, you know, some people believe that they're not, they're inessential. They're like tertiary doctrines and all that. There's a book out there about, you know, what are the main doctrines or the secondary or the tertiary.

And I'm okay with that way of thinking, but just be careful. Your tertiary may be reflecting your primary doctrine, your cardinal doctrine. So if you say these things don't matter, okay, just make sure that this is not tied to your primary. That's a great point. The elements of theology, they don't operate in isolation from one another. Everything is tied together. Just because you can't see it at the moment doesn't mean it's not there. Yeah.

We put them in tears. You know, we have those primary and said, this is what we all have to agree on. And it's almost kind of passive. It's like, if you've got secondary and tertiary, Hey, we can disagree. And that's fine. Like, yes, that's true. But it's like you said, what is that? If you believe this about the tertiary doctrine, what does that imply about this one up here? I'm going to ignore that.

Right. Like for example, when it comes to anastasis, you know, we, or resurrection, we talked about having the right gospel. Some people say, no, some things don't matter.

We just got to agree on the essentials. Well, here's what I believe about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, our great high priest is born of our bone and partaker of our flesh and blood. This is biblical language by the way. So Jesus Christ, our great high priest is born of our bone and partaker of our flesh and blood. His very body that was placed in the tomb on Good Friday rose from the tomb on Easter Sunday. Same body, same body. It was imperishable and immortal, not invisible and immaterial. Now some people will say, ah, that's why are we making a big deal out of that?

Because it makes a big deal when it comes to our body. That's right. That's right. If all this is not true, then the gospel is false and all hope is lost. Well, he's the template. He's what we look to as far as our resurrection. Everything Christ did, and I know this is something that you've said from the pulpit, we've said on the show too, everything Christ did was a foreshadowing of what we would do, of what we would one day do, including the resurrection. And that's something we don't think about.

We don't think about our resurrection being mirrored in his. Yeah. Right.

Right. But Jesus said, you know, in Luke 24, 38, why are you troubled? Why do doubts arise in your heart? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. Some people believe that on the other side will just be spirit.

Just like kind of angels floating around. No, Jesus says a spirit does not have flesh and bones. What he's saying is, look, I have flesh and bones. I have meat.

I have bones. I think that's something that kind of surprised me was that people have denied, and I don't I think it goes back further than I was thinking, where people denied this bodily resurrection of Christ, that it was just maybe now he's some sort of angelic being. Maybe now he's comprised of light. He's a spirit.

He's not material. He's, you know, just kind of ethereal floating. No, the resurrection was bodily.

It was physical. I mean, in 1 John 4, very early on, there was a heresy that was developing. It says in 1 John 4, 1, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirit, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. But this, you know, the spirit of God, every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is a spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming and is now already in the world. And again, in 2 John 7, there's only one chapter, for many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a spirit. This is a deceiver and an Antichrist.

Wow. He's not playing around. This is a very, this is a very, very important doctrine. In no uncertain terms, John's calling these people out. Yeah.

And it's not just for this coming. It's also his remaining. He remained in that flesh and bones body. So any person, a group that does not believe that the glorified body of Jesus was not flesh and bones, but only spiritual and immaterial is not only unscriptural, but also the Antichrist. Wow.

It goes against the gospel and against the hope that is promised to us. Wow. So, you know, I want to talk about this a little bit more in the next few minutes, but just want to introduce to the people something that happened back in the late eighties. In the late eighties, early nineties, there was a big debate that went on. A professor by the name of Murray Harris and Norman Geisler, they sort of went out on against each other on this subject and Murray Harris later on, you know, it was sort of kind of swept away, but it was initially believed that he was claiming a spiritual resurrection, not a flesh and bones.

And Geisler repented that there was a bodily resurrection, which I agree with. Right. Right.

Which I agree with. I mean, I mean, how can you deny these words? Right. I mean, what do you think?

Yeah. I mean, it, it's, scripture is very clear that the times you use a phrase like in the flesh, Jesus came in the flesh. Um, you know, to deny that is you calls into question things like the translation, it calls into question things like, you know, was there an agenda in the people who were writing Bible?

No. I mean, if we believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, then these words are in there for a reason because Jesus was raised bodily. I even think about it logically. Like, okay, why would I agree that the tomb was empty? That body went somewhere, but, but now it's gone. Now he's some sort of spiritual kind of forced ghost being.

Okay. But so there was a body in the tomb. Yeah, I believe that. And the body's gone. Yeah, it's gone.

Where did it go? I don't know. Yeah. So why is it difficult to say that that's the same body? What is, what is the implication that if he has that physical body and now that's somehow bad or incorrect?

Why? I don't understand why that's the breaking point. Well, he, he made that argument, which is typically made, uh, in some of the more, I don't know how to say it, moderate circles, maybe liberal, definitely that it was just a spiritual resurrection. The body was not involved because the body moved through walls and this and that and whatever. So that was not really spiritual, but it wasn't really physical. But he told his disciples to touch him and to handle him.

He did. I mean, he came to Thomas. Uh, he came to Mary Magdalene. Uh, he came to other disciples, behold my hands and feet. This is Luke 24 39. That is I myself handle me and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.

I don't, I don't get that. If Jesus himself is sent, that's, that's very plain language. Handle me and see for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. Yeah, but the bottle, it wasn't bodily.

Right. Does, is it because he did things that a physical body wouldn't normally do like the, like the moving through walls and but, but Jesus did miraculous things before his death. I mean, he walked on the water, right? Bodies don't normally do that. I don't understand how you can say that it's not physical when Jesus himself is saying plainly that it is.

And then he ate food like at least four times with them in front of them to prove that he is real. Yeah. This is not just spirit.

Spirit doesn't eat food. That's true. I just, I guess I don't see the, I guess I don't see what you gain from saying, yeah.

What would the motivation be for saying that Jesus was not responsible? This is sort of, I'm not, again, Murray Harris is a great, great scholar. I respect him greatly. A lot of his contribution to our scholarships or you know, Greek preposition, his book, I have it, I've read it.

It's great work. But sometimes I think in, in trying to build a bridge between evangelical and again, even that definition is changing now, between believing Christians and those who are more on the liberal side, trying to build that bridge. We, we always lose, you know, we probably believing people always lose because the other side says, but you know, how do you know for sure the miracle happened? You know, we don't know.

Why are we, why are we claiming that it happened? Could it be that it was just a spiritual apparition that they were seeing? But if that's, if that's the case, then I mean, that calls into question the inerrancy of God's, of God's word. Right. That's what he was talking about earlier. When you say these doctrines that you think are tertiary, like, okay, was it a physical body?

Was it a, was it just a spirit? Well, that's tertiary. It doesn't have to matter. It does imply something about the conclusion that naturally has to follow.

Like if this passage is not accurate in what it says, then what other passages are not accurate in what they say. Now we've got a whole thing of dominoes that's fallen over. Right. So that's why you have to go, wait, let me, let me, let me put some brakes on here.

We need to decide either is this physical or is it not? That's, that's why it's important to devote an entire 30 minute radio show to whether or not Jesus is body. Because again, it's like, you're right on the surface.

It's like, why would you devote a whole episode? Okay. He's got a body. Maybe he doesn't.

I don't know. You should know because it has strong care about knowing because if Jesus says, Hey, touch me, I'm real. This is my body.

You also are going to be raised from the dead in the same way. We're sitting here saying, yeah, maybe it doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be as long as we agree on the main thing. That's what they're saying. Yeah. And, and so, you know, I, I, and I know that this may come as a kind of a joke to some people.

It's like, why are we talking about this? Well, this was a hot button issue back in the eight, late eighties, like 89, 90, 91, 92, 93. I mean, a lot of stuff was being debated. You know, people were losing their jobs, certain seminaries and schools.

So what is the application for us today? Is it just that Jesus had a real flesh and blood body? Yes. But also be careful how quickly you throw away tertiary doctrine. That's true.

Yeah. We need to show grace and compassion and, and patience with each other on the tertiary, but just be careful. Those tertiaries are in some ways tied to the primary.

That's true. They have very real implications. And I'm also thinking about now that you're going through this series in Revelation during our Sunday sermons, how many people have questions about what the afterlife is going to be like? How many people have doubts and fears and anxiety about what heaven's going to be like, or how things are going to be on the other side? And so knowing these things about Jesus and what they imply about our resurrection gives comfort to people because it's, this is what, okay, Hey, here's what God says.

I don't have to, you know, there's obviously going to be some things that we don't know for sure, but the things that we do know, let's talk about. That's right. It's the heart of the apostolic preaching. You know, Paul Peter says that on the day of Pentecost, it's the earnest expectation of the creation. Paul tells us that in Romans eight, the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God for the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope, because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God means the creation is being held down until we are resurrected. And the creation will experience a resurrection, the new heavens and new earth. So there's not going to be like a ghostly planet floating in space. Like we'll be in like in this virtual world, like the matrix or something. Like if he turn off the lights, turn off the switch, then it's like, we're back to this lifeless, you know, room with nothing but lines and, you know, kind of like empty, but you know, like the vacant space, just like the white void or whatever. Like the, like heaven is some sort of parallel plane and that's where we're going to be forever. Earth is going to be gone and will exist in some alternate reality. Right.

Not true. And now the hope of our gospel, you know, people have so many questions about the afterlife, heaven, and first Corinthians 15 tells us, but now Christ is risen from the dead and has become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by man also comes the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all should be made alive. But each one in his own order, Christ the first fruits, afterward those who are Christ at his coming. So, you know, we will be like Jesus. If Jesus had a physical body, we will have one spiritual body means a body dominated by the spirit, right?

Devoid of matter. Yeah. It's not a spiritual, like a ghost, like a, like, you know, a spirit, like think of it like in this life, our body is dominated by our natural desire.

That's right. On the other side, it will be dominated by spiritual desires. So important for us. If you guys had any questions, or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com. Click that donate button there. Be obedient to what God is calling you to do and partner with us as we seek to impact the nations with the gospel of Jesus. We love you guys. We'll see you next time on Clear View Today.