Booker T. Washington

Hello, everyone.

Today is Thursday, February the 2nd. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm Jon Galantis. And you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. If you have a question for Dr. Shah or a suggestion for a future episode, make sure you let us know by sending us a text at 252-582-5028. Seriously, text me. Text the number, please.

Ryan. We haven't gotten a lot of text messages in recently, and I'm feeling lonely, so please text the number. I didn't want to tell you this, but all the ones that we've gotten up until this point, I sent. I created multiple fake accounts, and I sent them, because I knew you were wanting to. Honestly, Nicholas just sent me.

That makes me upset to hear, but I appreciate you doing that. Absolutely. I know you appreciate the honesty, too. If you guys out there want to help keep this conversation going, if you want to help keep this honesty train just being pushed forward... We're cultivating a spirit of honesty. That's right.

That's right. I'm sick of all the lies that I tell. You guys can share this podcast online, leave us a good review on iTunes, and we're going to leave a link in the description of this podcast so you can do just that. For right now, it's time for the verse of the day. I'm literally disgusting myself with my dishonesty. Hey, why don't you do the verse of the day today?

I've done the first three. Why don't you take Thursday's verse of the day? It's coming from Acts, chapter four, verse 19 and 20. Peter and John answered and said to them, whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge, for we cannot but speak of the things which we have seen and heard. This is one of my very favorite verses in the beginning of Acts as the church is getting established because Peter and John are being accused. They are literally on trial in front of the religious leaders, and they say, hey, if you think it's better for us to listen to you instead of God, that's up to you. But we're going to talk about Jesus. That's right.

That's right. How different would our world be? How different would our lives be if we had that kind of boldness?

Well, there's no ruler. There's no threat at all that's ever going to be able to stop the voice of God from being heard in his people, especially when his people stand up with a backbone and witness. That's the whole point of what we're doing here. We have made this show not just so we can just sit in a room and listen to ourselves talk, but because we can't help but talk about God. If we're not doing this on the radio, we're going to do it out on the street. We're going to do it in someone's home. We're going to do it in the church. We're going to talk about Jesus somewhere. Amen.

Absolutely. You know, someone wrote in on Monday and asked Dr. Shah, I should have had the name pulled up, but they asked Dr. Shah who he mained in Street Fighter. Yeah, I remember. Now, for all of y'all who don't know what that means, it means who's the main character that you play in Street Fighter. So I wanted to bring it up because I know that David and I, and I think you two too, we share a love of fighting games. So I want to know, and this is just from my own personal inquiry, not only Street Fighter, because I know I played Street Fighter. I don't think you played very much Street Fighter. I didn't play Street Fighter much. David, you didn't play a lot of Street Fighter, did you?

No. Who do y'all main in Smash Brothers? Mario. Ooh, Smash Brothers. Mario. Mario, really?

Okay. Mario or Little Mac. And we're talking Smash Brothers Ultimate. I've never played Ultimate. I've only played the original Smash Brothers. The reason Ultimate is because it has every character that's ever been in it. So it's just whatever Smash Brother character you've ever mained is in Ultimate. I typically went back and forth between Link. I played Link a lot.

Okay. And Kirby. Now you're talking N64.

Yeah, like the OG. That's the one. You never even played Melee on the GameCube? Nope. Wow. I didn't have a GameCube.

I only had the N64. I would definitely main Sonic, Wario, or Toon Link. Wario. Wario. Here's the thing about Wario, man.

Wario is a clown of a character, but he's got some real power, if you know how to use him. Which I don't. Right. But I think he's really good.

Which I don't, but I have heard. See, Sonic is a good character because he's fast. He's not a hard hitter, but if you can hit people little by little and then flee. Yeah, hit and dodge. Yeah.

Which is what I do. My favorite is Mario. Solid character, solid build, but I really like if you can take somebody, you can back throw them off the edge.

If you run and then you get them with your down B in the air, you will spike them way beneath the stage. Mario's a great all around character on this show. I want to challenge David to Smash Brothers. No need. Because David thinks... David has done nothing since I've known him, but talked junk about how he could take me in Smash.

Even though I've beat him repeatedly. No. Multiple times. It's documented. Nope. And there are witnesses that have signed it in the record. Nope.

Go ahead. We got a few minutes. Not true. Not true. I've never beat you in Smash? Not a fair fight. Why is it not a fair fight?

Not a fair fight. Because I used items and we used all moving stages? Moving stages do not count. Why? It's in the game? Using items do not count. Why? Because you don't have to have technical skill. If you just get that ball that...

So hold on. So if I used items in Mario Kart, I didn't win the race? I don't play Mario Kart.

I don't know about that. The people who made the game put it in there. It's part of the game. Yeah, because that's for party stuff. That's not like tournament rules.

David! That's like a little fun game. Is there an official PDF that you're reading from? I mean, he is correct. They don't let items in tournaments. But still, that doesn't mean you're a better fighter. That's like saying, I could beat you in a game of basketball. It's like, oh, but you didn't dribble or you didn't... Yeah, yeah.

That's what they did in the toddler league. No. I watched a video dribbling.

The goal was like six feet tall. No. What you're saying is like, hey, I can put this hammer, I can use this hammer to nail this stuff in, but I'm better because I used a rock.

I didn't use tools that people gave me. That's not true. Yes, it is. That's not true.

They give you the tools to work with. I don't know enough to weigh in on this. That's what I'm saying.

That sounds fishy to me. I don't want to just keep arguing with this guy. I want to play Smash on the podcast. I just don't know how to get people to watch it because then they're going to be hearing us playing a video game.

That's not going to make any sense to our radio listeners. I want to get... Woohoo! Yeah, woohoo! I want to get Dr. Shaw playing it. That would be fun.

Yeah, I would love that. Listen, people don't know this, Dr. Shaw is very good at video games. Yeah. Very good. I just broke my microphone here.

Oh, no. I'm so sorry, gang. Go ahead and segue us in so we can fix the microphone. We've got a full episode planned for you guys today. Hope you're ready to listen. We're going to get Dr. Shaw, but if you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, send us a text at 252-582-5028 or visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com.

We'll be back in just a minute. Well, good morning, afternoon, evening Clear View Today listeners. My name is Jon. And I'm David. And we just want to take a quick second and let you know about another way that you can keep in touch with Dr. Shaw's work.

And that is his weekly podcast series, Sermons by Abaddon Shaw, Ph.D. As a lot of you may know, or maybe some of you don't know... If you don't know, you do now. And if you don't know, then maybe just hop off the podcast.

David. I'm just playing. Hop off the podcast.

I'm just playing. Keep listening. Dr. Shaw is actually the lead pastor of Clear View Church in North Carolina. Every single weekend, he preaches expository messages that challenge and inspire us to live God-honoring lives. Well, one of the four core values of Clear View Church is that we're a Bible-believing church. So every sermon is coming directly from scripture, which is great because that guarantees that there are timeless truths that are constantly applicable to our lives. This is a great resource because whether you're driving, whether you're cleaning the house, whether you're working out, you can always benefit from hearing the Word of God spoken into your life. And God's Word is always going to do something new for you every time you hear it.

Sometimes it's conviction and sometimes it's encouragement. But know that every time you listen to God's Word, you're inviting the Holy Spirit to move and work in your life. You guys can check out the Sermons by Abaddon Shaw, Ph.D. podcast. First and foremost, check it out on our church app. That's the Clear View app. You can get that in the Google Play Store. You can get that on iTunes. But you can also find the podcast on the Apple Podcast app or on our website at ClearViewBC.org. And listen, if you've got a little extra time on your hands, you just want to do some further reading, you can also read the transcripts of those sermons.

Those are available on Dr. Shaw's website, AbaddonShaw.com. And we're going to leave you guys a little link in the description so you can follow it. But for right now, David, let's hop back in.

All right. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart with the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com or if you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, make sure you let us know by sending us a text at 252-582-5028. Dr. Shaw, happy Thursday to you. Welcome to the studio today. Happy Thursday to you guys. It's good to see everybody here. Gather around the table. Y'all are looking good today.

Thank you very much. You're looking good as well. We're all in the same, like a very similar color wheel. It's kind of like warm, like a warm autumn, I think, is what we're doing. We're trying to channel that in the cooler weather. Well yeah, you got the blue, you got the cyan. If you're listening on the radio, you ain't got none of that. The warm colors of our voices.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you guys are new, visiting with us on the show, if this is your first time ever tuning in, we want to welcome you. Dr. Abbadan Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, a professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's episode. You can find his work on his website. That's AbbadanShah.com.

I love the fours behind that. The host. He's the host. Of today's episode.

With the most. Well, on today's episode, yesterday began Black History Month at the start of February, and with it being Black History Month, we want to talk about individuals who have had an impact on our nation, specifically in the areas of innovation and of faith. One of those names that continues to come up is Booker T. Washington. I remember learning about Booker T. Washington in school, but I don't know that I could just, out of the clear blue, tell you much about his life and what he did. I remember him being important, but I don't know that I can just summon that off the top of my head. It's a familiar name, but it's one that I feel like I can't really tell you what exactly he did. I'm excited about today's show. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Our nation needs heroes. I would say this man right here has inspired me. In fact, several years ago, I would say maybe 10 years ago, that Nicole and I made a trip to Franklin County, Virginia, to the farm where Dr. Booker T. Washington, later on he had that title, was born. For about eight years, I believe it is, that he was a slave on that farm until the Emancipation Proclamation, and he was free. He was one of that last generation of African Americans who were slaves and were able to step into the 20th century and speak on the issues that were facing the African Americans in America.

Wow. I got a quote from him here. I think one of the things that I really admire about him, just talking about him before the episode, was that I didn't realize what a man of faith he was. I didn't realize how deeply entrenched in the Bible he was. I've got a quote right here where Dr. Booker T. Washington actually said, As a rule, a person should get into the habit of reading his Bible. You never read in history of any great man whose influence has been lasting who has not been a reader of the Bible. He goes on, he says, Take Abraham Lincoln and Gladstone. Their lives show that they had been readers of the Bible. So if you wish to properly direct your mind and necessarily your lives, begin by reading the book of all books.

Read your Bible every day and find how healthily you grow. That's pretty awesome. That is.

Yeah. And keep in mind, of course, we know about him being the president at Tuskegee University or college at the time in Alabama. And then, of course, Hampton Institute, which was formed to help freedmen have education. But many people may not realize that, but from 1878 to 1879, he was at Wayland Seminary in Washington, DC. So yeah, he did go to seminary as well. Wow.

So his education was very well rounded. Wow. And again, we're not talking about, you know, the 1990s or, you know, the 2020s. I mean, we're talking about 1870s. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that he was even in that time and that climate of everything that was going on, I love that he was willing to not only take a stand and speak out, but to speak out on faith. To say, Hey, it's important that you read your Bible. It's important that you grow in your faith. It's important that you read this book.

I love the way he put that, the book of all books that changes you from the inside out. That he was willing to be bold enough to take that stand. Well, not only that, but he also points back to other great leaders. Like he gave that credit to Lincoln and to Gladstone and said, Listen, these are the men that I'm following. And they're readers of the book. Just kind of like Paul said, Imitate me as I imitate Christ.

You know, he's pointing out these leaders who are doing it right, who are leading the country based on Christian values and Christian values. Now, if you want to know about him, his life, you know, when we went to the, to the farm in Franklin County, Virginia it was, it was quite amazing just to see and, and go by, you know, the place on the farm or, you know, we don't know for sure if that's the exact spot or whatever, but to where, where this one room house was, wooden house, where he lived, where he grew up. But if you want to know more about his life, it's of course his biography Up From Slavery is a classic. I have one in my office.

I have one in my collection. And it really lays out for us what the life was like for, for a slave living in that time period. And it was not easy. It was rough. It was harsh.

It was, it was, it was very difficult. And he talks about that. And, and he talks about, you know, like, like having his, his mother, Jane, was the cook on the plantation of James and Elizabeth Burroughs. And, but for the children, for him, his brother, sister, I mean, it was just whatever you eat, that's it. You know, it was not like a full sit down meal that they would have. It was just, here's a piece of bread. Here's maybe some milk. Some of the day it may be just a piece of meat.

I mean, just whatever, whatever you can put together and just go and work. When it comes to going to sleep, it's not like you had a nice little bed laid out for you. I mean, just whatever pieces of rags that you had and that that's your bed. And I keep in mind, I mean, this is, you know, Southern Virginia, so it's cold.

You know, we're talking about a little below Lynchburg. So, you know, they had snow there. So imagine what life must've been like in the winter, very cold, very harsh and no windows, no glass windows, no nothing. So the light that came in was simply through the cracks in the lock cabin, you know, and that's, that's what you survive on.

That's how you get by. And he has this heart, you know, having grown up in that environment, grown up in that world, he has this heart for people who are coming out of that world, who are, you know, freedmen who are pursuing an education. He wants to give them opportunities that he values. He understands the importance of opening those doors for men and women coming out of those situations. And I think it would have been so easy as well to come out of a life like that and always be the victim or always be this person who's been downcast.

And yeah, I mean, you kind of have the perfect out to never accomplish anything. And yet he did the exact opposite. He went on, he became a person of influence and impact. And he had this idea, I think we were talking earlier, Dr. Shah, that people in that time period often thought that religion was only fit for the common people.

And Booker T. Washington would say, no, that's not at all true. He said, he even said, my observation has taught me that the people who stand for the most in the educational and commercial world and in the uplifting of people are in some real way connected with the religious life of the people among whom they reside. And I know that's your heart as well, because you're very deep into biblical scholarship. It's not enough just to preach the Bible at surface level.

I want to know as much as I can and become as educated as possible because I have a heart for the people. And Booker T. Washington believed that. That was his deep conviction. And that set him apart from other leaders at the time. There were a lot of leaders and a lot of voices crying out for freedom and equality and all of that. But his was unique in the sense that it never blamed religion or Christianity for the ills of society. It always acknowledged that the Bible is the word of God. And the closer his people, and that's how he would put it, could follow the Bible, the sooner they can find themselves rising up and making themselves strong and independent and citizens of the society. Because that idea of contributing citizens or people who are valued was very important to him. So it's not just enough to be free, but no, we're not just free so now please help us, but we're free so that we can make a contribution. And that's very special.

That really inspires me, you know, because it's easy to have a handout and always reaching for one, but quite different when you say, no, I'm here to help you. So, you know, when he went to, of course, Hampton, he graduated from there. He taught there for a little while after Wayland Seminary. And then, you know, the word came out somewhere about 1881 that there's this new place that is being founded for African-Americans in Tuskegee, Alabama.

It is the Tuskegee Normal and Industrial Institute. And his name was suggested to be the president, the first president. And to lead this place.

And of course, you know, he did it. He inspired the people who came and he inspired the students to brick by brick build this place, buy that farm and begin building this college. And it was not just going to be a college so that we can get educated. No, it can, it was going to be a college for educators who would go out and educate their people to now free themselves from the shackles that are still there. You know, just because the Emancipation Proclamation happened doesn't mean that everybody is now free and doing whatever, man, we got a great land of opportunity.

No, no, no, no. You have, of course, you still have to deal with racism. You still have to deal with people who are trying to keep you down. You still have to deal with your own ignorance or lack of education, you know, so you have to help your people rise above all this. And so Tuskegee was founded so that it could help educate the African-American population. I love that his heart is true freedom, not just liberation from slavery, but freedom of the individual in the sense of like educating them in the sense of giving them opportunities. He even says here, he says, a man is free just in proportion as he learns to live within God's laws. So true freedom, and he recognizes this and he instilled this through his work at Tuskegee, through his work with other individuals is it's not just a matter of I'm no longer in slavery or I'm no longer bound by my station in life. True freedom is achieved by knowing and observing God's laws. I think that's something that we've even lost today is that we have freedom for what end, just to be free. I can do what I want and no one can tell me otherwise.

Like, is that your purpose in life? I feel like Dr. Washington here is saying that you have freedom, but at the same time, your freedom comes not just at a cost, but with a purpose. There's a reason that you're free. And if you're not fulfilling that reason, like, yeah, you may not be punished for it, but man, you're not living up to the potential of what we can do.

I mean, you've been set free spiritually and even in this case, physically, very physically for a reason. Now fulfill that reason. And also to make sure nobody misunderstands. He was not just all about these lofty ideals. He understood the problem facing his people, the African American community.

And he said it, he said it this way. He said, no matter how much our people get happy and shout in church, if they go home at night from the church hungry, they're tempted to find something to eat before morning. So yeah, he, of course, there are ideals of man, study the word, you know, stand up, grow, get educated at the same time. Well, the first need is people got to eat.

So how can we do that? And for that purposes, he was very well known for building bridges with some of the leading philanthropists of the time, like, you know, Andrew Carnegie, you know, and, and others like the founder of Sears Roebuck. You know, these were people who were very close to him and he built these friendships.

That's why I like it because, you know, that's, you know, God moves you, God takes you to new heights, but it's people who are used by God to help move you. And he had such people in his life. He had famous politicians like Teddy Roosevelt or William Howard Taft and others who supported him. And of course, Republican party that, you know, the African Americans were very much part of the Republican party.

And he was very good friends and even served as an advisor to these presidents on issues facing his people and facing Americans in general. Isn't that beautiful? Yeah. What a, I mean, what a picture of progress to go from being at one point, this guy was a slave to at some point by the end of his life, he's advising presidents on how to run the country. Yeah.

That's amazing. And again, we're not talking about today, right? Where people are, there are book deals signed and social media likes. I mean, you're talking about 1870s, 1890s, 1910s. I mean, this is a period where, you know, they have just come out of slavery for the past two, three decades. Right. And he's already making such an impact on the lives of people. Yeah. He's actually awarded an honorary master's degree from Harvard in 1896.

In 1896, he got an honorary master's from Harvard. That's right. Well, it goes to show that the progress was a lot quicker than we give it credit for, you know, there were, there were still problems and there were still things that needed to be ironed out that came much later, but at the same time, like what amazing progress in such a short span of time, I mean, what is that like 30 years? That's right. That's right. That's insane.

And we don't, and we don't talk about stuff like that. Yeah. What do you think, what do you think it was about his life that certainly there were other people around that time who had similar ideas, you know, slavery is bad and have opportunities for, for people of color, but what was it about his life or his upbringing or his circumstances that just created this fire within him, this, this drive to see not only himself come to freedom, but, but others as well. Well, especially coming from the South, he understood, he understood the situation faced by the African Americans.

Okay. The newly freed slaves, he understood their problems. He understood their needs and their weaknesses. At the same time, he also understood that that the importance of building bridges with the white population, which many times his counterparts or his, you know, other people who are also fighting the same fight did not quite appreciate. In fact, in on September 18th, 1895, I mean, this is a very prestigious time for him because he's on the stage in Atlanta, along with white speakers, unheard of, okay. In that time period. But nonetheless, he gives his famous speech.

And in this speech, he's talking about, you know, the, the importance of vocational skills for the progress of African Americans rather than political agitation. And initially, right. Initially, some of the people like W.E.B.

Du Bois, you know, they were happy. It was like, Oh yeah, this is, this guy's good, but we like him. And then eventually they were like, no, you're, you're, you're taking too much time. We don't like, we don't like your approach. We don't like having to shake hands with the white population in bringing about change for the African Americans. And to me, how in the world can we work as Americans towards, you know, dealing with prejudice and dealing with racism if we don't come together, we have to come together. We have to build bridges across color lines and build bridges across our, our, you know, our prejudice or our mindsets.

We have to come together. And that's who Booker T. Washington was. You know, he believed in that strongly.

And for that, he was heavily criticized by, I think even Frederick Douglass, you know, criticized him for that. And he, and I, and I believe Booker T. Washington was right. You have to build bridges. And sometimes it takes time to, to get people to understand how, Hey, this is my neighbor. And if I believe that I'm, we are made in the image of God, then he is made in the image of God and she's made in the image of God. And I have to love and respect and honor that. Right.

Well, it's just like we talked earlier in the week too. Everywhere that, everywhere that Christianity has gone, it has elevated people and it has contributed toward unity. And certainly there are some outliers and people who have used misapplied the Bible and caused division and strife, but Christianity at its core, it's about bringing people together and elevating people as we seek to follow Jesus. Well, I think even you can look backwards and see the impact. Like we said, look at the impact that this man made in such a short frame of time with Christianity on his side. Now compare that to today where every single person online considers himself to be an activist. How much impact is actually being made?

Christianity is not involved at all. It's being pushed out of the picture and nothing's changing. You know, decades are going by. People are still unhappy.

That's what people say is like, man, there's so much problem in this country. Well, maybe we need to try Booker T. Washington's approach. Right. Cause it was working.

It was working very well. And I believe we can still work. Amen. That's right. In a day and age, like today, like you said, John, everyone has a platform and everyone is an activist.

It just becomes like white noise almost. Just people are fussing about different things. But in a time period where he shouldn't have had a voice, what a profound impact Booker T. Washington made on, on not just the African American community, but on our nation as a whole.

I mean, look, we're still talking about them all these, all these decades later, you know, it's, it just goes to show that, you know, with God on your side, he uses anyone and everyone, you know, he uses, he uses everyone to, to further his kingdom. Here's a statement I want to read if that's okay. He said in 1903, he said, there are several kinds of freedom. There's a freedom that is apparent and one that is real. A superficial freedom and one that is substantial. A freedom that is temporary and deceptive and one that is abiding and permanent. One that ministers to the lower appetites and passions and another that encourages growth in the sweeter things of life. A freedom that is forced and one that is the result of struggle, forbearance and self-sacrifice sacrifice. But there is, but one kind of freedom that is worth the name and that is the one embodied in the word spoken centuries ago by the great master.

And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. Amen. Man. Wow. What a powerful statement. Very. Wow.

Man. That is amazing. If you guys enjoyed today's topic, I learned today about Booker T. Washington. Hopefully you guys did too. If you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, let us know by sending us a text at 252-582-5028. You can also visit us online at clearveetodayshow.com. And don't forget you can support us financially on that same website.

Every gift that you make goes not only to building up this radio show, but to sharing the gospel with countless others. I had a quote that we can end on. I was going to do one from A.W.

Tozier, but I just found one while we were kind of talking about Booker T. Washington that I wanted to do here. Let me pull it up right here. Here he goes. He goes, to live the real religious life in some measure is in some measure to share the character of God. The word atonement, which occurs in the Bible again and again, means literally at one minute.

To be at one with God is to be like God. Wow. Yeah. That is beautiful. And that, I mean, that so accurately reflects his heart is that people will be unified as we seek to be unified with God. That's right. That's amazing. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear Read Today.