Reformation Day

Today is Monday, October 31st. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. And you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can find us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com, or if you have a question for Dr. Shah, anything you'd like to write in and suggest that we talk about, send us a text at 252-582-5028. You can also email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com. You can follow along with Dr. Shah on his website at AbaddonShah.com, and you can support us financially at the ClearviewTodayShow.com. There's a button there to donate. And every donation you make goes not only to supporting this show, but to supporting our countless other ministries for building the kingdom of God.

That's right. And before we start the show, we want to remind you about the upcoming elections on November the 8th, 2022. We want to keep this conversation going until the election because this is so important. Yes.

And you guys can help us do that by supporting this podcast, sharing it online, leaving us a good review on iTunes, and just keeping the discussion alive. John, how are you doing today? I'm doing okay. You know, I've had this big thing about Halloween. Today is Halloween, as a lot of you guys know. And I've always had this thing about Halloween.

It's not really like a religious thing. It's just, I am so uncomfortable with people dressing up in costume, right? You know, it's always made me uncomfortable. It's something that I feel like, um, it's not really a disrespect thing, but it's like, it just puts me on edge. Why? What about it puts you on edge?

You know, I talked about it a little bit in Carpe Mignana. I don't know what it is, but something about people in costume just kind of makes me uncomfortable. You're like smirking out of the corner of your mouth. What's going on right now? Well, because I feel kind of disrespected. Why do you feel disrespected?

And the people on the radio who are listening to this, who have no idea what's happening. I'm sitting across from Iron Man. That was a quick switch, by the way. Thank you. That was a quick switch. Wait, take the, take the glasses off. Take the glasses off. Yeah.

Let me just see. I mean, it's Tony Stark. Tony Stark. Look into the camera.

Look into the camera and tell him. Yeah. It's Tony Stark. I am Iron Man.

Very nice. Now snap and see if we all disappear. Oh, no. I don't want to wield that kind of power.

I just, I don't know. Halloween has always been, I have no problem with trick or treating. No problem with the holiday. Just people in costume. We went to Comic Con. I had a tough time. I had a tough time at Comic Con because everybody's in costume.

Something about it just makes me very uncomfortable. And yet I have a wife who adores Halloween and now that we have a two year old, there's no getting around it. I'm a bad father if I don't dress up. I mean, half the fun is like dressing up together as a family.

Yeah. We have five kids and as long as they are willing to like engage in this whole family like group costume concept, I'm going to capitalize on it. But you're going for it.

We're going for it. But you love it even if the kids didn't love it. I think it's fun. Yeah. I think it's fun. But I mean, I'm like, you know, I'm used to like dressing up and being someone different on stage. So that's, that's kind of, that's kind of normal for me. Yeah.

I'm, I'm at the point where it's like, I really don't like it, but I'm going to be scolded if I don't. So I will be goofy tonight. Sure. And we'll probably put pictures. We can put pictures on the Instagram or on the website.

On the website. We can also put them on the Facebook page. We have a clear read today show Facebook page. If you're not following us on Facebook, make sure you go follow along there, stay up to date with all of our content, the Instagram as well. Make sure you follow us at clear V today show on Instagram. We'd love for you guys to jump on Instagram, see what we're doing there. I walked into the office this morning and I saw if you can't, again, if you're not watching the video podcast, you really need to make sure you go do that.

You can do so at clear V today show.com, or you can follow us on Facebook, like Ryan said, but I want, so if you're not watching, you don't see that Ryan has actually shaved his beard to look like Tony Stark. Yeah. So it's the goatee, but it's kind of short.

It's kind of close crop to the, to the skin. I don't love it. I don't love it, but it's full disclosure.

I don't love it either. Like this is not a style choice I would make for myself, but it's not my face. So I'm kind of having to come to grips with, I want to roast this dude, but at the same time I need to be respectful because it's for Halloween and his kids are going to love it.

So I'm like, well, yeah. And it's here. It'll grow back. I'll wait till Halloween is over.

Then we commence with the roast. Are you shaving it after this? Are you going to keep it for a while? I may just let the rest of it.

You can kind of catch back up. We'll keep it. We'll just rock it for a little while. Hey man. That's Halloween.

You make sacrifices for your family. Yeah. Well, not only is it, you know, we're talking about Halloween today, but this past Sunday was, uh, was reformation Sunday. We're going to bring Dr. Cheyenne in just a few minutes and talk about that.

Can I tell you, can I make a confession? Sure. Typically on the show we, cause the whole nature of the show is we're bringing biblical scholarship and deep things of the faith to the lay person.

So we kind of act as the, uh, as the lay person and kind of drill the conversation or drive the conversation to where it's like, okay, let's get it to be explained. Right. I genuinely do not know what reformation Sunday is. So reformation Sunday, it's the, it's recognized as the inception of the Protestant reformation. Okay. You know, and Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the Catholic church.

That sounds unsanitary and it sounds like vandalism. Well, that vandalism actually marked the formation for the Protestant reformation. Okay. I mean, that's, I guess that's fine, but that's kind of good for the Protestants. I don't know what that does for us. We're Protestants. I'm Baptist. We're Baptists. Correct.

Which makes us Protestants. Really? Yeah.

You, that was so quiet. Really? Okay. Yeah. So we're going to talk about a little bit more about what that means.

And then maybe off mic mean you can talk about maybe not calling me out in front of 6.7 million listeners. Sure. I mean, I, I didn't expect the conversation to tell us and it's okay. We're all here to learn.

That's right. We're all here to learn. We're learning together.

Maybe you didn't know what that means. So if you have questions about, you know, the Protestant reformation, Reformation Sunday, what that looks like, why it's important, text us those questions to two five two five eight two five zero two eight, or again, you can visit us online at clearview today show dot com. We're going to grab dr. Sean. We'll be right back. What will people say about you when the crisis is over? Will they say that you lived out what you proclaimed all your life? Will they say that your actions matched your confession?

Ultimately, what will God say about you? Not only that, but as a Christian, are you being a lighthouse for others during the storm? Dr. Abedan Shah and his wife, Nicole, have composed a book of 30 daily devotions to help you navigate your faith through whatever crisis you may be facing. The book is called 30 days through crisis daily devotions to navigate your faith. Our prayer is that as you read this book, God will guide and strengthen you through his word into the image of his son by the Holy Spirit.

It's 30 days through a crisis and you can pick up your copy on Amazon right now. Let us know how it's helped you by emailing us at info at clearviewbc.org and don't forget you can also support what we're doing at Clearview by visiting us at clearviewbc.org forward slash give. Thanks for listening. Now back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abedan Shah, a show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You can visit us online at clearviewtodayshow.com or send us a text at 252-582-5028. We've got Dr. Shah with us in the studio today. Dr. Shah, how are you doing today? Welcome back again. Welcome back. It's week two.

Week two. And I am just grateful to our listeners because we've heard a lot of good things from people and I just give God all the glory because it's about Him. It's about the gospel of Christ. And so for people to take the time to let us know how much they appreciate us and get the emails and those messages, that was pretty awesome.

It's pretty unreal. Yeah. One of the biggest messages we got is Dr. Shah going trick-or-treating tonight. Oh, no. Oh.

I'll be here though. Yeah. Because our church is doing trunk treats.

Yes. So we use every opportunity to share the gospel. So why not have kids come by here? Of course, our church kids will be there. Our Awana kids will be there.

But also kids from the community stop by and they get candy and along with that, they hear the gospel. That's right. That's right.

And we did it last Wednesday as well. Absolutely. So it's really, really cool that that avenue is available. An amazing avenue. Absolutely.

Many kids came out. It was unbelievable. Yeah. And if you're joining us for the first time today, Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament Textual Criticism. He's a professor, Carolina University, author, full-time pastor and the host of today's episode. That's an impressive list of credentials. We haven't ever mentioned that, but like that, that's pretty impressive.

You've got some people who are one or two, but to be all five, that's crazy. Thank you guys for doing that. By the way, a little clarification. I didn't write that bio. I wrote that. I thought I had a nice ring to it.

I love it. Well, thank you, John. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's dive into today's topic. Today we're talking about the Reformation, which is a Protestant Reformation. I learned, Dr. Shah, that we are in fact Protestants. Yes, we are.

Yes, we are. That was fun. It was fun. It was an interesting discussion. It was fun to learn that.

It was not fun to learn that on the air. Sure. I didn't appreciate that. I understand that. But hopefully I will help clarify that a little bit in a few moments.

Absolutely. So today, the event that happened in the 1500s has radically altered how we think about approach, experience Christianity in today's world. The Protestant Reformation. We're talking about what that means. This past Sunday was Protestant Reformation Sunday.

So Dr. Shah, can you kind of share with us? Maybe there are some listeners who aren't familiar with this term. What does this mean?

How does this impact us? Maybe there are some who are finding out that they're Protestants for the first time today. I was joking, by the way, just so everybody out there on the radio knows. I know what the difference between Protestants and Protestants.

Well, here's the thing. Of course, yes, 1517 Luther at the Wittenberg Chapel door posting the 95 theses. Just keep in mind that throughout the history of the church, there were people who always believed that there was something different than the established church. So just prior to the Reformation, I mean, you're talking about the radical reformers. Some of them came through the Reformation, but many came prior to the Reformation. I've done a research paper years ago in one of my PhD seminars on the history of the church on the Waldensians. Now, these were people who lived through medieval times, and of course, they had a start.

They had a beginning point. But according to some researchers, some scholars of church history, Anabaptist studies, that many of them were probably there much earlier, and they knew that they were not going to go along with the established church. Of course, we're referring to the Roman Catholic Church, and again, I have friends who are Roman Catholics. I have friends who are in that way of thinking, but they are born-again Christians.

So I would never say, oh, you know, Roman Catholics cannot be Christians because I know some who truly believe that Jesus Christ is their savior and king, and it's in him alone and not anything else. So having said that, throughout the history of the church, there were people who stood outside the established church. So Protestant Reformation was not a new concept. It was there, but it really took on, I don't know, it made an impact like none of those previous ones ever did because it was so far-reaching, it was so impactful.

It radically changed Europe forever. So I guess my question, because what I do know about the Protestant Reformation is that Martin Luther and a lot of those other reformers, those radical reformers, were unhappy with the Roman Catholic Church. They were very concerned.

So they wanted to break away from that. I guess my question was, was their concern theological, or was it just the Roman Catholic Church has too much power and authority, or a little of both? Both.

I would say both. The whole idea of apostolic succession was something that bothered the radical reformers, the pre-reformers, you know, we're talking about the Waldensians and all these others, it always bothered them that these people were controlling their lives. So what does apostolic succession mean?

And so think about the Pope, that he has been assigned, and so he is this man between you and God, and that there's a succession behind it, and so the Roman Catholic Church pretty much dictates the life of the church, and not just any church, but all churches. And people throughout the history of Christianity felt that that's not right. And so when they wanted to do baptisms, you know, they were persecuted. And some of these radical reformers went off the deep end too, you know, they had beliefs that I would not dare say, oh, that is really orthodox. They were not. So there were problems as well.

History is messy. But overall, they felt like scripture should be primary, you know, the whole five solas, scripture, grace and faith and Christ alone, and of course, you know, for God's glory alone. So throughout the history of the church, there were people who felt this was not being done. And then especially with the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther, 1517, posted those 95 theses on the wall or on the door. By the way, this was not something radical. People put things on the door all the time. We think it was like, man, this is like a major act of vandalism, like he vandalized. It was not a vandalism.

This is where they if they had anything going on or a debate or some event, they were posted on the door. That's pretty much all he did, right? So what happens next? He nails the 95 theses to the door of the Catholic Church. And then what is the next step?

How do things unfold from there? Well, I don't know if we have time to go into all the history. But of course, it came from a deep conviction. He was not just doing things to stir things up.

Of course, the other side said, you know, there's a wild boar in God's vineyard, right? But he came from that conviction that began years earlier. But in 1510, when he went to Rome, to St. Lawrence Chapel, and they have those 28 steps going from the base, from the road all the way to the top. And so with each step that you go kneeling, moving forward and climbing up and saying certain number of Hail Marys and all that, that, you know, so many, so many years of indulgence is pardoned and all that. And he said, Martin Luther, and I'm kind of paraphrasing here, is that he was no closer to God on the top than he was on the bottom. And then when he saw some of the priests laughing and joking and kind of making fun of the pilgrims who really deeply believe that this place is getting them into heaven, I mean, this is salvation, and he watched all that, and it just deeply moved him. Already he was struggling with salvation, okay? Luther was already struggling with this sense of angst about his spiritual life, his soul. But this was like a breaking point for him.

Wow. He was an Augustinian monk, as many of you guys know that, and from there that desire to do something about it began. And I know there are historians who disagree with this and that about Luther's life, but overall most agree that this is basically how it took place. Do you think he was the only one who could have done this, or do you think he was like just right man, right place, right time?

Yeah, I would say so. I believe God has his hand on Luther. I would never say Luther was perfect. I would never say Luther's entire life was, you know, completely, according to God's will, I mean, you know some of the things about, and later in his life, some of the anti-Semitic remarks and pamphlets and all that, I mean, so we know that I cannot endorse that, but overall I believe God used him in a powerful way to bring the church back to justification by faith.

So I guess that's my thing, is I'm sort of in the middle, and maybe it is a mixture of both, maybe it's not one or the other, but when I think about the Reformation, I think about the implications that it brings, I often wonder is it a theological thing, or is it more just getting the Bible and getting scripture into the hands of the people, or maybe it truly is both. Well that already began, I mean, that was happening much earlier with Wycliffe and John Huss and all these guys, they were already doing that, so this was not something novel that let's get the scriptures in the hands of the people, this was already happening. But with Luther, that break with the Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church to be more exact, was something new, something very powerful. Got it.

Okay. Were there a lot of others around that time who, I guess, kind of shared Luther's sentiments? Oh yeah, oh yeah, that was a growing movement, and it was just that the time was right, 1517. So printing press came out in the 1400s, right, so the Bible is being printed, people are reading it, it's outlawed, and it's been deemed punishable by death and all that, but there were people who were already feeling the same sentiments, but Luther was very unique in that way, I mean, just a dynamic personality. What do you think some of the responses were from people, like when all this started to unfold, do you think people were watching and thinking, oh finally, here we go, or was it more of a, I will see, you know, where this goes? Yeah, I can't imagine some people would be like, why would you mess with something that's, like, because structure, like, even though it had big, big issues, clearly, you know, the Roman Catholic Church had structure, and it had like some sense of stability, I can't imagine that. But some people who were sympathetic to Luther's cause would be like, why are you trying to mess with a good thing?

Yeah, but also, you know, not everybody had the same motivation, not everybody was behind this new movement because they wanted to, you know, hang to the doctrine, hang on to the doctrine of justification by faith, nah, some were doing it for political purposes. Yeah. You know, you have these people in Italy controlling your lives, so no, we don't want that. Yeah.

We want to rule ourselves. I think some people also just like to see establishments fall. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's an old thing. Yeah. That's been around a long time.

Just want to, like, see the hierarchy crumble. Yeah. Yeah. The people who were in power, hey, look, it looks like this Luther dude's going to really do some damage.

I might get behind him. Yeah. He was a brilliant mind. Yeah. I mean, for him, and we can talk about Luther's life a lot because I've done a lot of studies on him.

I mean, for him to go translate the Bible, you know, by himself, taking these resources and translating the Bible, locked up in that castle. Can we talk about that for a minute? Yeah. Yeah.

Because I didn't know he did that. Yeah, he did. So the German Bible, of course, is Luther's translation.

Okay. So he was a brilliant mind, very hardworking, very determined. And he really believed in the cause that people need to read the Bible in their own language, not in Latin. Right.

Of course, Greek and Hebrew is not possible. So in the German language, huh? We forget that a lot.

We focus on, he nailed this to the door, and it's part of that one political act. Right. Yeah. Even his commentaries. Oh my goodness.

His commentaries. Luther's commentary on Galatians is the reason why John Wesley got saved. Okay. Wow.

Okay. So, and it's even to this day, I've consulted Luther's commentary on Galatians. People consulted all the time because he gets to the heart of the matter.

Yeah. And it's, he was a scholar. It's really crazy to think about that because you often think about God working and moving through people only in the context of the Bible. You don't really think about God, like, I like how you said that, that God had his hand on Luther. You think if it happens outside the Bible, it's pretty much humans doing what they're doing. Right. You don't think that like God, is it possible that God had his hands on Luther in the same way he had his hands on like Moses or David or he, I mean, obviously he's not speaking directly to Martin Luther like he was to them, but he's still, he's moving and working.

I think that even gives us hope for today. Absolutely. Yeah. And his personality was very dynamic. Of course, at times he would say things that you just kind of shake your head and go, well, that's maybe only Luther can say that. I can't even share some of those things that I've read him in his table talks. Table talks for those who do not know, was his time to sit down with his students at night, you know, in the evening after dinner or even after lunch and just talk and Luther would talk and these people were writing things down. And so he would say things that were so memorable, that were so hard hitting that were so controversial.

And so very unique individual. I don't, I don't know if I want to devote this episode to Calvinism, but is, is this because I think that deserves its own episode. Is the Reformation, is that, is that, did that kind of give way to all these different sort of Calvinism and all the Calvinism?

Yeah. I mean, later on, you know, as Reformation spread, it's heading towards Geneva with Calvin and headed towards Scotland with John Knox. And so these are, these are different impacts of Reformation.

Was he directly involved in the Reformation or did that come much later? No, no, he was. He was.

That was it. Okay. Right. He was, we just tend to think of him by himself nailing things to a door. Right. There were people around him. There were a lot of intelligent people who were also behind the cause like Philip Melanchthon and all them.

We'll talk about them another time. Right. His own wife, right?

Katie, his own wife, Kathleen Von Bora, she was a nun. And so when these priests were leaving the Roman Catholic Church or their monasteries and becoming, I guess, Protestants, the nuns were facing the same thing. They were like, we don't want to be in this anymore.

Right. We want to leave our convents and we want to change. And so they were doing that and priests were marrying the nuns. Wow.

This one convent called Luther, I don't know how they called him, sent him a letter, not like physically picked up a phone call. They just shot him a text. Yeah. Yeah. And they said, we need help. We need help to escape. Now this was not, this, this convent was in a region where it was very dangerous because it was a pro Catholic, pro Roman Catholic area.

So region. So Luther took it upon himself to get these fish barrels and rescue these nuns. Wow. These fish barrels.

These fish barrels? Yes. And so as the story goes, pretty much all the nuns found someone to marry except for this one feisty nun who was very hard to get along, who had been turned down already by one. You hate to hear that. Rejection stings.

That's hard. And so it was kind of left to Martin Luther, would you like to marry this one? And he's like, no, I'm 41 years old. You know, I'm set in my ways. People want to kill me.

People don't want to marry me. And actually, Kathleen, this nun, now, you know, not a nun. So she even told Luther, I said, why don't you marry me?

Why don't we go and do this thing? That's all it took. And so, and he did. So do you, I mean, I know this isn't completely on top, but you can't be a nun, you can't be a nun if you're married.

No, not in the Catholic church. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So he married her. And they had, they had type A personalities, very, um, how do I say this?

There's no filter. Yeah. Just say whatever.

Say what comes to mind. And so they had a very interesting marriage. Wow. That's awesome. And so keep in mind, 41 year old monk and the honeymoon knight, what do you think?

Oh man. I don't know. We're on national radio. What can I really say? I don't know. I don't know how much I can say it.

But he came out and he said, Oh God, forgive me. I think I love Kathleen more than I love Jesus. Yeah. You know what? I've been there, man. I've been there. So it was, and they had a really Christ honoring marriage.

That's awesome. She was the right fit for him. He was the right fit for her. When he would go in his fits of depression, um, you know, one time can't Katie, he was called her Katie. Sometimes Kathy, Kathy means chains in German.

So anyways, well, makes sense. So, uh, she, he was like really down and out, upset about how things were turning out. And she shows up in a black dress, which is like a widow's gown. And Luther says, who died? And she said, God, the way you're acting.

Oh, that's quite a sound. Needless to say, Luther got up, changed, took a shower, whatever. Golly. So, so they had six kids, six kids and were married for 21, some years, a couple of the children died. Um, I just, you know, sickness and things like that, but they were each of those companion and they helped a lot of people, a lot of young people in that period. And then as a result of all of that, we're where we are today. I mean, none of this would exist without the Protestant Reformation. Yeah. So I would never say Luther, a perfect man, because of course there are faults.

But having said that in this generation, this time, I think we need some Luther's and some Katie's. Amen. Amen.

Wow. And I mean, just watch how God will work, you know, when someone is devoted to them and they work on their marriage and they, and they, you know, they understand that there is establishment, but at the same time, the truth of God's word has to prevail. You know, that we have to, and that's why I appreciate the show because so many Christians are just content to go along with whatever.

You know what? I know that the Bible kind of says this, but I don't really know it's the culture isn't really going that way. No, the truth of God's word has to stand out. And that's what we're fighting for.

And I feel like even on this show, that's what we're fighting for as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing.

What was so fascinating to dive into the life of Luther and his wife, I didn't know anything about his wife. Yeah. I mean, that's, I love what you said. Like we need more Luther's and Katie's in the world today. Amen.

Wow. If you enjoyed today's topic or you have suggestions for future topics, let us know by sending us a text at 252-582-5028. Remember to send those questions in about things that we've talked about.

We're going to answer those, or we're going to pose those to Dr. Shaw on Friday on the lightning round episode. So make sure you send those in. You can also send them in via email at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com. That's the email. And don't forget that you can support us financially on that same website.

That's ClearviewTodayShow.com. Every time that you give, you're making an impact for God's kingdom, engaging in that partnership. Thank you for all of your donations. Thank you for all of your support.

I mean, it truly does impact the kingdom of God. You may not think it, but we're seeing it and we see it every time someone donates, we see the impact that it makes and we see the impact in the people that we're reaching with this, with the show. Yes, absolutely. Well, as we close, Dr. Shaw, do you have any last minute advice for us for today's episode? Last minute advice. All right. I have this one. Okay.

We'll be talking about Reformation Sunday with Grace alone. You know, when you're going down the road and you see the highway actually, and you see this sign that says merge, why is it that some people don't merge? Why is it that they keep flying down that left lane or right lane, whatever is emerging? So what do we do? What is our tendency? You know, our tendency is to block them out. Yep. Yep.

Right in front of us. They're there and then make them wait there for the rest of their lives, right? Every car keeps going, well, my suggestion is just let them in. Just let them go. Let them go. Even if they didn't choose to merge, you let just go.

I want to follow your advice, man, but the petty child in me just- Go on, let them on in. Just remember justification. That's right. That's right. That's true.

That's true. By Grace, let them merge. Just let them. Just let them on in.

They don't deserve it. Remember that? That's right. I can deal with that.

That's awesome. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow. We'll see you today.