Today is Monday, October 24th, 2022. I'm Ryan Hill.
And I am John Galantis. And you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can find us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Or if you have a question for Dr. Shah, anything you'd like to write in and suggest that we talk about, send us a text at 252-582-5028.
You can follow Dr. Shah on his website, AbbadonShah.com. And you can support us here at Clearview Church. I'm sorry, I messed up the link right there. It's okay.
Go for it, man. At ClearviewTodayShow.com. There's a trip right at the starting line. First episode jitters. It happens.
It happens to the best of us, not me. I'm excited. I want to make sure I get that handle right. It's ClearviewTodayShow.com. To be fair, the run sheet is mistyped. That's okay. I appreciate you not throwing me under the bus. Correcting on the fly. I put the wrong website on the...
I'll show you. I put the wrong website. It's okay. It's all good. If you're listening on the radio, you can't see it, but this is a filmed show.
Yes. And you can find it at ClearviewTodayShow.com. ClearviewTodayShow.com. That's the website, man.
Back to what I was saying. ClearviewTodayShow.com. There's a link there to give. And here's what that means. Giving not only supports this radio show, the ministry that we're doing here on the broadcasting stations that we're a part of, but also the countless other ministries that we have available through Clearview Church for building the kingdom of God. You get the chance to partner with us in doing that. Before we get started with today's show, we want to remind you guys about the upcoming elections.
That may not be a secret to you, or maybe that is a surprise to you. Hopefully it's not. We're going to be talking about this a lot over the next few weeks.
Yeah. If you live in North Carolina, and I think a lot of states, this is the date, but the general election, the statewide general election is November 8th, 2022. That's the year.
2022. Don't time travel around to other elections. Don't get in no TARDIS going messing with no other elections. Let's focus on this one.
Get this thing right. And the races on the ballot this time include one US Senate seat, 14 US House seats, several state offices like General Assembly, Supreme Court, and Court of Appeals, local judges and prosecutors, county offices like sheriff and county commissioners. What he's saying is, and I don't mean to cut you off, but what he's saying is this election is very important. So get out there and vote. Yes, absolutely.
Go do your civic duty, vote your conscience and be a part of the elections that are coming up. And we'll talk about that a little later when we bring Dr. Shah into the studio. I know I've got some first show jitters. John, how are you doing? I got the jitters, man. I got the jitters. I'm nervous. What's going on? Tell me, talk to me. What's happening?
I'm going to talk you through this, man. Basically what's going on is we've been in the podcasting game for years. We've been podcasting since I think 2016, 2014 if you count a lot of the shows that I was doing with Dr. Shah. So we've been podcasting for a long time. Thing is anybody can have a podcast. Any Shmo, any Putts, any Tom, Dick and Harry can come in here, start a podcast and tell people to listen to it. And none of those are even your name. It's not even me. I'm John and you're Ryan.
So we don't have any of those people on staff. Here's why I'm nervous. This is national radio.
You know what I mean? This is like, they don't just give anybody, I can't walk up in the truth network and be like, give me a show. I think I'll have a show now. I'll have a show. So I'm nervous because there's a lot of stuff on the radio you can't say.
Okay. Like what? I mean, like what are you worried about saying? Well, like I couldn't say for instance, and this is just off the top of my dome.
I can't say that your home address is four. Wish you would not have said that on the show. We're going to have to take that out. That's well, here's the thing. I'm not editing this.
And so I'm hoping that the fellas over at the truth network have the good sense, you know, God gave a minnow to actually cut that out. Otherwise I'm going to have a lot of, uh, a lot of visitors because, and I hate to even put that on them because they really need to be at the top of their game. Cause I also might say something like your home phone number is too.
I wish you would not have said that. That's doxing and it's not good to do. It's not good practice. And that's, that's why I'm nervous. I don't want to let the good people over the truth network down. They've given us a great opportunity and I don't want to squander it.
I understand. Let me go ahead and segue before you reveal any more of my personal information. We're going to bring dr shot in in just a few minutes. And since this is the first episode of clear view today, we want to spend a little time, you know, letting you all get to know us, letting you hear dr. Shaw's testimony and just sort of building this relationship from the ground up.
You guys would be hearing a lot from us here on the truth network. So we want to start things off on the right foot. We're going to take a quick break. We'll come back with dr. Shaw and get into today's topic. Again, any questions or suggestions that you might have text us at two five two five eight two five zero two eight. Also before you go, Ryan's wife's phone number is two. So again, if y'all want it, please don't do any more personal information.
You can visit us here on the, on the clear view today show at clear view today show.com and we'll be right back. If you haven't already be sure to check out dr. Shaw's book changing the goalpost of new Testament textual criticism before the 1960s, the goal of new Testament textual criticism was singular to retrieve the original text of the new Testament. Since then, the goalpost has incrementally shifted away from the original text to retrieving any text or many texts of the new Testament. Some scholars have even concluded that the original text is hopelessly lost and cannot be retrieved with any confidence or accuracy.
If that's the case, how can we claim that the Bible is inerrant to answer these questions? Make sure you order a copy of dr. Shaw's book. That title again is changing the goalpost of new Testament textual criticism. You can pick up your copy on Amazon right now and let us know how it's helped you by emailing us at info at Clearview, bc.org. You can also support our ministry here at Clearview by visiting us at clearview, bc.org and forward slash give.
Thanks for listening. Now back to the show. Welcome back to Clearview today with dr. Abaddon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You can find us online at Clearview todayshow.com and you can send us a text at 252-582-5028. We've got dr. Shaw with us in the studio today. Dr. Shaw, how are you feeling today? Um, let's just say I'm feeling a little nervous. I mean, we've done radio shows before. We've done a podcast for like four years and all, and prior to that there was another podcast, but this is different.
There's something special about this. And, and so I am nervous. Well, it's all good. You look great. You look really good. But thank you. If you guys have never seen the show before, if you're not familiar with dr. Shaw, dr. Abaddon Shaw is a PhD in new Testament textual criticism. He's a professor at Carolina university, author, full time pastor, and the host of today's show. That was a great introduction.
Fantastic. There's something coming though that I'm, I feel like I'm not gonna lie. This is the first episode, so no one has seen the show before. So they wouldn't have seen the show before. So John is nervous too.
I'm assuming John is nervous. I wrote it on the run sheet. It made perfect sense, like going forward, but as I did the first episode. And it sounded, your delivery was flawless. That's fine. It's okay. No, I'm not going to be upset about that.
I'm not going to be upset about that. Before we dive into today's show, John and I spoke earlier about the elections coming up on November the eighth. Is there anything that you want to say to our listeners or viewers before we dive into the main topic of today? Oh yes, absolutely. Go out and vote, right? Vote your convictions.
I would say vote biblical convictions and vote your conscience. It is so important to do that. You know, I meet people and they tell me how frustrated they are and how disappointed they are with where our nation is headed and the election integrity and those kinds of things. And I get it. I understand. Having said that, you still have to do your civic duty. Go out there and vote.
Because if you don't, then you lose the credibility. How can you say, hey, we need to change? Well, you haven't voted. So do go out there and vote.
That's right. Make sure you go out there. You'll hear us talking about that more on the episodes as we're leading up to November the eighth, but make sure you go out, vote, do your civic duty, vote your convictions.
Like Dr. Shaw said, vote biblical convictions. And let us know if you have any questions about the elections or how we can help you be informed. Like we said, you can send us those texts to 252-582-5028.
Make sure you text us those messages as we're getting started. On today's show, we wanted it to be straightforward with it being our first episode. It's many people's introduction to you, to the show itself, what we're doing today. So we thought it'd be helpful to just really just start from the beginning. So we'd love to just hear your testimony, hear your story of, you know, kind of your life growing up, what led you to where we are today? Oh, wow.
Yeah, sure. So I grew up in India. The first 17 years of my life were in India. I grew up in a pastor's home. In fact, more specifically, I grew up in the home of the first generation Muslim convert. And that was my dad.
Now, what does that mean? First generation? First generation, meaning other than his cousin, about the same age, he was the first one to follow Jesus Christ. So if you go back to our grandparents, great grandparents on mom's side, dad's side, his mom and dad I'm referring to because my mom's testimony is different. They were all Muslims. Mom's side of the family is a different testimony.
So how did they take it when he, when he, oh, they didn't take it well. So my grandfather was a commissioner of police, very educated man, a family, very successful. I mean, they can trace their lineage, you know, about a thousand years or more back.
Yeah, it's unbelievable. And so anyways, when my dad went to him and said, you know, God, Jesus has saved me and I'm a Christian now. His dad was very stern and said, my grandfather, who I met one time as a little baby, other than that, that was it. And he's told him, you know, your Jesus was a beggar and if you follow him, you're going to become a beggar and then you're going to come back to my house and it'll be up to me to decide whether or not to accept you. So here's my word to you. Go ahead and end all this mess.
Because when I wake up in the morning, cause he would get up early in the morning for his drills and things like that. He said, when I wake up in the morning and you're still in my house is because you have renounced this Christianity stuff. But if you don't, don't stay because it will not be good. And if you leave, make sure you do not take anything but the clothes on your back. And that's because I'm a generous man. I'm a gracious man. I mean, it doesn't sound very generous and gracious, but that was his statement to my dad. Don't take your certificates, your diplomas, none of that.
You just walk out and see how much it is Jesus will take care of you. Wow. So your dad literally in that moment, he, he started over essentially. He started with nothing. Oh yeah.
Yeah. Oh, but see, it was, it was worse than that because it was not just not having things in life, but he was losing his family and they were very close as a family. So my dad went outside, it was pitch dark and he walked out, looked up at the night sky and he prayed and he prayed and said, God, I gave my life to Christ and I believe this is the truth. And here's what happens. I lose my family. This is not what I envisioned. What my dad actually envisioned was that his dad would say, well, we're going to discuss this and see why you are thinking this way.
He didn't expect it to be so drastic. Keep in mind my dad's side of the family, the Muslim side of the family, we're not like hardcore fundamentalist Muslims, you know, none of that. They were, I would say moderates. Nonetheless, it didn't matter when it came to their son becoming a Christian, it was over. So is that common among Muslims to be like, okay, if, if you are going to get away from the Muslim faith, then you are going to be excommunicated or is that more extreme? I would say maybe there are instances where parents are like, well, we understand where you're coming from, but that I believe only happens if the families are living in the Western culture. Even then there are parents who are, I mean, you heard of honor killings and all that. Even there, there are some, some, some crazy things. So being in the West doesn't mean they become softer.
Sometimes they become harsher. But here in this situation, my dad didn't expect that. And so he went out and he prayed a simple praise to God. How is this happening?
Why is this happening? And the answer did not come back audibly. It came to his heart and the heart. And the answer was this. Do you believe that I can take care of you in the life to come?
And my dad of course responded, yes. That's the reason why all this just happened. Well, that's the reason why I gave my life to Jesus. And then the question came back. If you can trust me in the life to come the life that you haven't seen, why can't you trust me in this life?
The life you can see. Yeah. And somehow in my dad's mathematical, logical mind, it made sense, sense enough for him to leave that night. And he left. Wow. That's, that's incredible. So what happened? What's the next step? How does he go from there to pastoring a church? What does that timeframe look like? Well, it's a very detailed testimony.
In fact, there's a book coming out in some next year, but he, he actually kind of interesting. He went to the railway station, right? Railways are the main mode of transportation.
This is in the 1950s. And he went to the railway station and the guy in front of him in the line asked for the city of Pune, the ticket for the city of Pune. My dad didn't know where he was going.
I mean, up until a couple of hours earlier, he was at home. Now he is walking out. And so he got to the window and the ticket master asked the same question, where do you want to go? He said the same place this guy went. So he gave him the ticket to Pune. Wow. But again, long story short, this was the place where my dad went to seminary down the road.
Okay. So there's a lot of connections there, but just the Providence of God, that the guy in front of him asked for the city of Pune. My dad went there and while he was there, he met some people and of course he went preaching all over the country, got beat up many times, countless times. He never got to his invitation.
That's his joke. He said, he said, I would get to the introduction or the first point and then the crowd would beat him up. So was he out preaching on the street and stuff like that? Wow. Okay.
Wow. Without any training and expository preaching or how to exegete a passage, none of that. He just, he just picks up the Bible and speeches in front of Hindu temples and Muslim mosques. And you know, he's like, these are not the living gods. Well, how long do you think that sermon is going to last?
They're probably not going to let that one go on. But anyways, he made some friends and one of the friends told a missionary that who would come to that town and then go to the seminary, which was sort of outside of town called Union Biblical Seminary. And this missionary was Dr. Fred Schillander. And they told him that this young Muslim man, young man is wandering the streets and preaching very passionately, but getting beat up. He has nobody. He comes very educated. Just his English is very, in India they call it the Queen's English. He's speaking the Queen's English.
He is very smart, but it doesn't make sense why he's a Christian, but he is. Somebody used to get him. And so my dad already left Pune, went away here and there, whatever. And then he came back to Pune because he had made some friends there.
And, um, when he got to Pune, the same friend said, Hey, this is, I believe it was like November by this time of whatever year it is. They said, you are supposed to start seminary back in August or September, something like that. There's a letter here for you from Dr. Fred Schillander.
My dad didn't even know who Fred Schillander was because he never met him. He said, there's a, there's a confirmation for you. Go to UBS seminary. And my dad's like, Oh, okay. Where is it?
How is, how do I get that? And of course my dad went there and joined the seminary. Wow. Okay. So eventually after that, he met up with Dr. Schillander. They had, they started to form this sort of mentor, mentee, um, sort of relationship. I would say father son relationship. Okay.
Wow. And then after that is then, then he establishes his church, the church that you grew up in? Well, he, he attended seminary there and Dr. Schillander helped him some, but he had to take care of his own self because typically, uh, the seminary students would come, um, sponsored by their churches or their denominations. My dad didn't have a denomination or church or anything. He was just wandering young man, you know, maybe 19 by now.
That's about it. Just wandering the streets coming from a very good home. You know, some of our family members, you know, went to England to study. I mean, so it's a very good home. So, uh, he comes to the seminary and um, while he's there, he is taking care of his own self. And the only way to do that was to iron the clothes of his students. And that's what he did. And he took care of himself. That way would have some spending money.
Dr. Schillander was able to pay his tuition, but room and board was on him and didn't even have a bed. Wow. Really?
Yeah. They had these, these cots with metal Springs, but no bed. And, uh, the way he made a bed was he got a bunch of newspapers, lay them out on the cots on this cot and then put a sheet on top of that. And he had, he just had a way of getting in the bed and not tear up the newspapers. So that's what he did.
Wow. And one day the principal's wife, she would come for an inspection. She would, she would, you know, w when you go to college, you have somebody who, you know, who's your supervisor or what do you call them?
Like an RA. Right. This was a principal's wife who would walk around and check the rooms to make sure, you know, you're doing your laundry, not leaving food, lying around those kinds of things. She came, my dad wasn't there.
His roommate was there and she sat on my dad's bed. Oh no. And when she did, she went through it because she just plopped down. Right.
Right. She didn't expect it to be just nothing but, you know, four sheets of newspapers. See, she just went through it. And when that happened, she got intensely mad immediately because she thought somebody had pulled a prank on her. Somebody was like goofing her, you know, and so she's like, who is that student and how dare he do that? You know, and she's mad.
She she's up and she's, she needs names. And the roommate said, he's a madam. That's, that's his bed.
That's, that's the student. And you know, I got tear out when I say that, but, but my dad, you know, he wasn't expecting anything. And so immediately she went to her husband and said, get up, get a blanket, get a mattress, get everything, pillows for my dad. She did.
So it's, it's, it's still emotional for me to say, wow. So how does he establish that church? How does he, how does he get to where he's now preaching? So the last year of his college, he did exceptionally well. I mean, he was, he was compared to the other students who many of them came from villages.
Um, they came from poor background. He was very educated, you know, because in India it's a very education driven culture. So most of people would consider going to med school and engineering school or something else, but preaching school, right? Seminary.
That's, that's not good enough for my child. So nobody came from educated background, but he did great. And he was top of the class and he got, um, he was going to graduate, but his, um, Dean, his principal, they called him in the office and said, we want you to stay one more year. And he said, why, why one more year?
So because we just want to test you to see if you're doing well. He said, well, you're not testing the other students. He said, okay, well let's just be honest with you. We have no idea why an educated Muslim young man would become a Christian and study the Bible and wants to go become a pastor.
Why would you do that? And he said, because God called me. He said, right, we hear that.
It just doesn't make sense. So he had to stay one more year to prove himself, which I understand. I mean, I don't know what I would have done in that situation to see this guy going, why are you here? So, uh, he stayed one more year and at the end of the year, Cary Baptist church in Calcutta, um, at one time, very big church, um, invited him to come be their pastor. He went over there, did some preaching and was mentored by the pastor there for about a month or something like that.
And, um, they felt like he's the man. Wow. Take over.
Wow. And so he went, preached, came back, he was ready to go and this was a good church. And so just like it happens even today in seminaries, you know, if you're really good student, really good preacher, you get the, the big church, the county seat church. And then if you're not, then you know, you just start to find your way. Right.
Kind of like what I did. But anyways, um, he was ready to go. And that last day as he was walking back to his room on the notice board in the hallway, he saw this, this note sent by a church in a unknown town of Basawal, which was about seven, eight hours from Bombay, not Calcutta, right?
Calcutta is on the other side, the west, the east coast. But anyways, it was from this small church and it simply said, um, please send someone to come be the pastor. If no one comes, we will close. Wow. So that's pretty much it. That's, that's the answer. That's the church that you grew up in. Right.
Okay. And so my dad read that and he kept on walking because, you know, he still had that Muslim mindset, even though he was a believer. The mindset is this, you know, when you suffer, it's, it's because God wants to bless you even more. So I have suffered and now it's time for blessing and all night he couldn't sleep. And God told him, I want you to go to that small church.
And he was so not happy with that. Wow. Why I've, I've suffered for the past, I think four or five years by now, five years is a long time.
Yeah. A couple of years of wandering the streets, three years of trying to do this seminary and then being made to do another year. You know, I've, I've, I'm done.
I need to go and reap the benefits of my hard work and suffering. And God told him, again, not audibly, it's in his heart that, you know, you are definitely called, but you are not consecrated. You haven't surrendered your life. Wow. And so you are committed, but not consecrated. And that really hit him.
Yeah. So next morning he went and told the Dean, he said, I don't know why I'm doing this. It doesn't make sense, but give me that small church and I'm going there.
Tell them I'm coming. And he went. Wow. So fast forward 17 years then. Well, not even 17 years, but 17 years from when you were born, what makes the decision? He's, he's older now. He's wiser. He's more experienced.
He's seen this, this practical side of life. Why not say, I want you to stay here and carry on the church after I'm gone. Why send you to America? Well, I was not going in the ministry at the time. Okay.
When I was in India that was not on my radar. Not at all. Not at all. Wow. So I was actually studying to go in med school. Okay. Either I was, I was interested either in doing heart surgery or I wanted to go into some kind of aeronautics field. Okay. Right.
Working on planes or not really flying planes, but being some kind of an engineer. So that's, that's what I wanted to do. Okay. So it made sense in, I guess in his mind, he was like, I'm going to send you to America for school. Did he know, I want you to be in America for life or was it any plan for you to come back?
No, not at all. He kind of left that up to me. He told me, I want you to go to a Bible college for two years and two years because I really want you to be grounded in your faith.
I don't know. Somehow he felt like if I didn't go to a Bible college, I'm gonna lose my focus. I may go off the deep end. And so he simply wanted me to go to a Christian college for just two years. And then he told me, he said, after two years, you can go anywhere.
You can come back and go to some engineering college or med school, whatever you want to do. That's up to you. Wow.
I really want to continue the conversation. We're running short on time for today's episode, but Dr. Shah, if you could pull one thing that you've learned from your dad's life, from his growing up, from his going into the ministry, what do you think that profound thing would be for you? What is the detail that you've learned from your dad's life? Well, again, based on what I just shared with you guys, I think it's that obedience. When God called him to obey, he did not look for the big stage, the big limelight. Of course he did. But when God humbled him and said, you're not consecrated, you're not surrendered.
You're looking for the fun, the big, the brightest. And he surrendered. And thank God he did because the man who wrote that note and sent it to seminary was actually my grandfather, right? That was my mom's dad. So if my dad hadn't come to that church, he would have never met my mom and I wouldn't be here.
That's amazing. I mean, I think to me, that's just such an encouragement and just what a mercy that God showed your dad, because he asked your dad to step out on faith. I mean, genuinely leave everything. Like I know in my Americanized mindset of Christianity, that's never happened. And it's probably more than likely, by God's grace, never going to happen. But your dad left everything, abandoned pretty much all hope of his life being set out before him.
But God took care of every need he ever had and left a lasting legacy. What an encouragement. And we're going to come back to that conversation and pick up at that Bible college that you went to. I want to continue that story. Yeah. I want to see the story of how everything plays out from you coming to America to establishing Clearview Church.
That's going to be an awesome conversation. Absolutely. If you want to follow Dr. Shah, you can find his blog at abidanshah.com. Of course, you can visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com. And don't forget that you can support us also at cleerviewtodayshow.com. You'll find a link to donate there. Every time you give, you are making an impact for God's kingdom.
And we are thankful for that partnership. Well, before we close the show, I do want to end on a practical note. Do you have any last minute advice, Ryan, to give? Last minute advice. Last minute advice. Just something quick. We can end on something practical, something we can walk away with. Okay.
Okay. So last minute advice. What comes to mind is the days are colder. We're headed into October. A lot of people struggle to get in like Christmas mode. Just start playing Christmas music early.
Christmas music, Christmas shows. I'm not going to tell you to decorate, but if you want to, that's up to you. Just start early. Thank you guys for listening to Clearview Today.
I'm just kidding. You close it out. If you guys have any advice for us, you can always text us at 252-582-5028.
If you decorate for Christmas early, I want to see those pictures. Make sure you send those in in text messages or you can actually email us at contact at clearviewtodayshow.com. And we'll be back tomorrow same time with Dr. Shaw to finish out this story, talking about your story, what happened at Bible college, and where your life took a turn from there. So we love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
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