A Mind To Work

When God's people have a mind to work, you will be amazed and astonished at what can get accomplished because you know the forward-thinking people have one thing in mind and that is building God's kingdom here on earth. The power of igniting vision coming up right now on the TV Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We got a great conversation on leadership and on biblical principles you can use in your everyday life. We're here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.

If you're listening for the very first time, Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome. It's good to be here.

Good to see you. Great conversations on leadership from the life of Nehemiah. I mean, this book has been so incredibly relevant to leadership issues today. I mean, I feel like this should be required reading for managers and CEOs and pastors and anybody who finds themselves in a leadership position because the way that Nehemiah handled and is handling, we're still in the conversation, but is handling this situation is really a masterclass. Yeah, if you're new to the Clearview Today show, what normal talk shows would do is they take a topic and then they talk about it, and the next day they take another topic.

Topic. What we do is we walk through, or at least what we've been doing, is we walk through a book in the Bible. We started with Romans, I think, last year, and then walked through Job, and then walked through James, and now in Nehemiah.

So, man, you could be here in leadership for the next, what, two or three months. Like, this is the topic we're talking about. At least. But I mean, the way we're discussing Nehemiah, we're definitely going by the scriptures, by the book of Nehemiah, but then also applying it or giving illustrations from my personal life and the lives of other people who made a difference, who accomplished the impossible, who went into situations that otherwise seemed hopeless, and they were able to, by God's grace, God's wisdom, turn things around. I think about Jerry Falwell.

He was the founder of Liberty University. He was pastor at Thomas Rhode Baptist Church in Lynchburg. And he embarked on this mission, this vision to create a place where conservative Christian Education could be provided. And I'm sure he had his obstacles. In fact, he did.

I read his biography. And he had plenty of obstacles. But one thing he said that always stuck with me is that you do not determine a man's greatness by his talent or his wealth. as the world does. but rather by what it takes to discourage him.

So What does it take? To cause you to give up, to give in, to throw in the towel. To walk away, to call it quits. What does it take for you to go, I'm done, I'm done, I'm out? Have you heard people say that?

Oh, yeah, some of the most depressing, discouraging, hopeless, dark words. I'm done, I'm out. You've completely lost the vision, lost what you're fighting for. Whatever, if you did have a vision, you're done. Yeah, yeah, lost any will to work, lost any will to lost any motivation to make things different or to try to reignite that spark that you had.

I mean, it's just, I imagine, a pile of just ashes. Yeah, and Nehemiah, I'm sure, felt that way because I have, and a lot of God's people through the ages, whether it is in a strict ministry setting or a secular setting, they've been at that point where the obstacles, the opposition is so overwhelming that you feel like, I'm done. Yeah, I cannot move forward. But then you go, no, that's not true. Like just last week when we were in Zion National Park.

This is in southern Utah. And there was this one place where you could you had to kind of climb up this rock outcropping and get on top. I mean, it was pretty steep. Yeah. I think we talked about this in a previous show.

Yeah. And once you get on top, then if there was enough flat ground that you could stand there and take pictures, or like we filmed there. But climbing up At certain point you feel like, ooh, it's deep. Yeah, it was steep. I mean, we're on all fours trying to climb up this thing.

And you don't know that little landing is on the other side until you get up to the top. That's right.

So we're climbing up and. We're just going to the peak. I promised myself I would never say this, but I was watching the younger people do it. Like, I was watching Thomas and Nicholas and AJ and like the younger staff. I'll say that way.

I was watching them do it. And it didn't look hard. And then once I started, I was like, oh, this is steeper than I thought. This is steep. Yeah, because you're on your hands and knees, and it's like, oh man.

And you're thinking, I'm going to slip. Yeah. And when I slip, I'm going to hit my head somewhere. And not only am I going to hit my head, but I'm going to hit something and hurt myself on the way down. Or I'm just going to look really fooled.

Like, I'm going to fall. I just cannot, cannot do that. You know how when Shaq falls, when Shaquille O'Neal falls, his legs fly up, he has to rock. I'm like, that's exactly. He's so tall, he's got to fall for five minutes.

I mean, it's going to take him a long time to get actually down to the ground. That's what I was scared was going to happen about. Yeah. But so I started climbing because initially I was like, no, I'm not. I'm good right here because it's going to get my clothes dirty.

I don't think I want to do it. And I was just making excuses. Right. Right. And Nicole, my wife, started goading me.

It's like, you're not going to go up there? You're not going to go up. And I know good well, she ain't talking. Yeah, because she knows. Go up there, she didn't go up there, right?

I was like, You're gonna go up there? No, yeah, Nicole, absolutely. That's that for those listening who are unfamiliar with Dr. Shah's wife, she's the type where it's like, Come on, Nicole, let's just walk across this bridge. I am not doing that, not me.

Like, come on, Nicole. I can't believe she really goaded you for real. Oh, yeah, she did, and so I was like.

Okay, fine, I'll go. And she's like, You are? I'm like, Yes, I am. And I started climbing up that way, like real fast. And then there was another dude who decided to go around me, and then he chickened out.

He's like, I'm not going around. You remember that? Yeah, he's like, I'm not going to. And he started backing down. I'm like, great, buddy.

I'm like, great, how am I going to get out of your way?

Now you're behind my face. Like, I'm trying to get around. This is like a very steep, steep. Like, if you were to look at an angle. Good grief.

It was like an 80-degree angle. It was not 90, but it was. It's pretty close. Yeah. I was like, how am I going to get out of the way?

So I hung on to it until he somehow got around me. I was like, please do not catch me on the way down. Just Spider-Man cling to the side of this. And. And so a little bit of fear came in.

I was like, maybe forget this. This is not worth it. You're going to fall. And you you got to travel. You got so much to do.

And I'm like, no, no, I'm not going to do that. And I hung in there, climbed up on top. And then it was like, wow, that that was not as bad. Same thing when it comes to opposition. It seems like, oh, I can't do this.

I'm done. I'm done. I got to stop. And then some Unrealistic fear gets into our mind and our heart. It's not as much mind, it's more heart.

That you're gonna hurt yourself, you're gonna hit your head, you're gonna slip. I mean, you're not gonna slip on the other side, which is very steep, right? But this side. And you see those boulders, you're going to hit them. Are you going to twist your ankle?

Stop. And it's like, no. There are people coming in and off of this thing. That's right.

No, I'm not doing this. I'm going to go all the way.

So, also, when it comes to opposition, I hope you will realize that those fears are unrealized, unrealistic. Step out. And trust God. That's right.

And that's what Nehemiah did. That's right.

And if you're, and you know, we're giving you leadership principles, but man, if you're a follower, like if you're in a follower position, even though you're developing yourself as a leader, encourage your leader. Tell him, like, if you feel like, hey, man, he's he's got something on his mind or he's struggling, tell him you're a great leader, and I'm with you. And I'm telling you, you don't know how much people appreciate that. Yeah, the power of I'm with you goes a long way. Yeah.

And knowing that somebody's in your corner backing you up and will shoulder any kind of burden with you. And we, and we talk, I mean, and us included, we talk about the three people who were against Nehemiah, but think about the people that were with him, the people that rallied behind him to get this thing done. Yeah. They encounter this opposition, but then the people, because of Nehemiah and because of his kind of inspirational words to them, they start to work. They start about the task.

And Nehemiah gives us a roster. He gives us a list of names because now we're in chapter three. He gives us a list of names, and at first it seems like, okay, some names are mentioned in here. But when you study them carefully, These are some very important people. And because these important people stepped up and took the leadership, the rest of the people began to follow.

There follows suit. There are 38 individual workers and 42 different groups. And I hate to say it, the names are hard to pronounce. And it was very tempting to skip over them. But we're not going to do that.

We're going to actually read these names.

So let's read some of them. Nehemiah chapter 3, verses 1. onwards, than Eliashib. The high priest rose up before his brethren, the priest, and built the sheepgate. I want to ask you just a quick non-sequitur.

When you, when, because you do a great job of pronouncing names from the pulpit, do you practice beforehand? No, you just can hear, like, I know this is how it's pronounced. Because I grew up in a different culture where there were names that are non-Anglo names. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, when I say non-Anglo, I'm talking about European background names.

So I'm used to pronouncing names like that. Like my own name is not an Indian name. People often say it's like, oh, so what does it mean? In Hindi, what does that mean? It doesn't mean anything.

But I know in Hebrew it means God is my judge. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. It's a Hebrew name.

This comes from Numbers chapter 1 verse 11. And so I'm used to pronouncing names like this.

So Eli Ashib. The high priest rose up with his brothers with his brethren the priest and built the sheep gate. They consecrated it and hung its doors. They built as far as the Tower of the Hundred, and consecrated it, then as far as the Tower of Hannanel.

Next to Eliashib the men of Jericho built. And next to them Zakur the son of Emri built. Also the son of Hasanah built the fish gate they laid its beams and hung its doors with its bolts and bars. and next to them Merimoth, the son of Uriah, was The son of cause made repairs.

Next to them, Meshulum, the son of Berechiah, the son of Mesh Meshezabal, Meshes of all made repairs.

Next to him Zadok, the son of Banna, made repairs.

Next to them the Tekoits made repairs, but their nobles did not put their shoulders to the work of their Lord.

Now First things first, there are three words that come to mind here, or four words actually. The first one is the word priority. It says Eliashib the high priest rose up with his brethren, the priests, and build the sheep gate.

So There is no ground breaking ceremony here. There is no Nehemiah with a shovel taking a picture. No, there's no cutting the ribbon happening here. Instead, Eliashib, the high priest, stands up first to lead by example. You know, there's relevance there that it's the priest.

Absolutely. Yeah. In our context or church context, it'll be the pastor. Yeah. Here's what I would say.

Trying to lead change in your church as a pastor or a staff member of a church. just know, preaching at people and telling them y'all should be. It's not enough. You have to step up and do it. There's a great picture.

If I can find it before this video hits YouTube, I'll I'll put it I'll drop it in there. But I have a picture of you, Doctor Shah, in the second building when we were first I think you know what up on the scaffolding. Running wires for the lights. Do you remember that? Oh, yeah.

High up in the ceiling. I've got a photo of you, like, yeah. Yeah. But that spoke to me seeing you do that. Like, there was nothing that you're like, hey, I'm not doing that.

Yeah. Like, it's like, no, this needs to get done. This is which building? This was the hub.

So in 2018, it was the middle building. Right, right. There's a, I have a photo of you. I want to see if I can find it, but you're up on this, like, top of the scaffolding, three stories up, and you're not three stories, but three levels up. Yeah.

And you're, you're hanging lights.

Well, even before that, I have seen a picture of you circulating from before either of us got here, dressed up as I think it was Moses. Oh, yeah. For like a children's ministry lesson or VBS. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah.

And I'm like, okay, if your pastor is prioritizing kids learning and having an environment where they can be excited about church, what are you doing? Is your pastor, is your pastor at your church willing to go up under the building to run audio snakes? Because ours is. All right. Yeah, you did that, right?

Well, this was the year 2000 or 2001. I want to say 2000. And A gentleman in our church decided to give some money towards the audio visual. System. He said, I want to help.

And so I went with him shopping. There was this store called Mars Music on Capital. And so he and I went, and he's like, man, we're going to get the best amplifier, we're going to get the best board, we're going to get the new speakers, new microphones, everything new. I was like, oh god. Wow, okay.

And then we're going to run this system. I was like, okay, so it's going to require something from the back to the front, because we're not going to put it right up on the stage. Because who's going to run it over there? And this is before digital audio, where you're just running Dante through like one Ethernet camera. No, no, no, no, no.

There's no Ethernet right now. I don't know. Ethernet cables was there. Don't misunderstand. Yeah, yeah.

You know, Cat 5s were there. Yeah. But this was. You're not running audio through. I was not running at the time.

Because I used to pull Cat 5s in 1996. when the internet first you know blew up. But here We get the snake. And then we had to The The church floor. Yeah.

And I'm like How are we going to do this thing?

So I asked one of our men in the church, Mr. Alton. I said, we need to run this under there. He's like, he's like, oh, well, I mean, I guess we can. It's messy down there.

I haven't been down there in 20 years. By messy, what did he mean? By messy. The place the church was located was called Moccasin Bottom.

Sounds like a Louisiana thriller novel. Moccasin Bottom. Yeah. It's still nobody take that. I'm gonna I'm gonna write it up.

Yeah, write that down. Write that down. Write that down, write that down. Yeah, yeah. About a murder and I'll buy you.

It's still called Moccasin Bottom by those who know in our small town, if they know what Moccasin Bottom is, they know exactly where that is. The church was located right there. Yikes. We went I remember going through the bathroom. Because that's where this drop-down door was that you had to go through and crawl in, go down.

And it was dusty. And just to be clear, you're not like. In a sub-floor. No, no, no, no, this is ground. You're on the ground.

This is like And so he and I went through the hole and we got down there. And in places, it is just enough for you to do an army, you know, elbow crawl. Yeah, it's tight, very tight.

So he and I got under there. And we didn't have to Yeah, we had to drag the cable. Yeah. Yeah, because the cables were. were with me.

So I had to take it there. And then we had to crawl up halfway up the church aisles because. You know, we wanted to put the system somewhere in the middle of the sanctuary because I had learned don't put them in the very back because it's not going to give you a a good indicator of the sound in the building.

So get in the middle.

So I was like, okay, we're going to put it in the middle. And so we found that middle ground. Uh, middle place, and then began to dig a little bit of a hole.

So I didn't know that at Tabernacle, when you were there, the sound system was in the middle.

Okay. No, when I first came there, the sound system was on the stage. Really? Yeah, how? It was on the stage.

But you moved it to the middle. No, I moved it to the third row.

Okay. Or the fourth row.

Okay, okay. Because. Uh I felt like Having it on the stage and me turning around and doing the sound were just awful. Yeah. It's weird.

So I put it up there and put Mr. Alton in charge of it. And he would just sit there and I was like, turn up, down. And he would just, that's all he had to do, like, turn the knobs. But when we bought the new system, we put it further back.

Okay. So, you know, our church could hold 500 people.

So it's a big, big auditorium.

So we put it halfway back on the kind of other side.

Okay. But, anyways.

So we Drilled a hole, a round hole, into the floor from the top first. And then we Crawled under there and ran that that cable From of course a snake you know, had to run from the board. through the bottom and then show up on the pulpit.

So we ran it And I remember. At one point, Mr. Alton was there. I was under kind of hunched over, kind of laying on the ground, really, not even hunched over. We were flat on our bellies.

And he was talking to another church member, Mr. Nelson. He was up on top. And he was safe and dry in the church. Yeah, in the church.

But he had some heart issues, so he was not going to cry, which you can totally understand. And I remember Mr. Alton telling Mr. Nelson. Nelson.

Can you see it? Can you see can you see this or something? I don't know. I can't hear you. What are you saying?

And I've never seen Mr. Alham get upset until that day. He got mad. He got mad. He's like, Nelson!

'Cause you know, when you're like that low under the church building, And It's dark. It's pitch dark. Your brain starts messing with. Oh, yeah, we do it a lot, and we have like concrete. Like, there's no problem, there's no question of being.

If I'm thinking, I'm under the floor with like dirt and snakes. Oh, yeah, I'm on itch. Snakes part, we didn't talk about. We just went down there. Gotcha.

And then We we ran the snake by the way, for those who are listening, this is not a snake animal. The snake is a collection of cables that we were running from the middle of the sanctuary into the pulpit of the the animals there as well.

Well, when we got out. That's when Mr. Alton said. Oh, by the way, to let you know, there were snakes down there. I just didn't want to say anything to you.

He saw them? Oh, yeah, he saw them. Oh, my goodness. I was like, are you serious? He's like, oh, yeah, they were there.

I said, I'm glad you didn't tell me. He's like, I didn't want to tell you because I figured you'd get scared and try to get out of there or something and hurt yourself. I was like, oh my word. And they were not just any black snake or whatever. Moccasins.

He's a water moccasin. Yeah. You don't want to be near.

So we did that. And then, here's a funny thing. We God the snake run from the middle into the pulpit area. Yeah. And now, and we brought it up.

No problem, everything good, it's looking great, the box came up, great. And then there was something got stuck.

So I decided To go down there. But this time from the pulpit area under the pulpit. Nobody was there that day. I said, I can just go down there and fix this cable because it's getting stuck. It was probably hung in one of those those wooden beams or got cut on a s on a I went under there and they told me that there are live wires, open wires down there.

Do not go down there. It's it's bad. You said, well, It works. People never had a fire, hope we never do, but it's not safe.

So I was like, okay. And I went down there. Sure enough, there are live wires. Really? And there's only this much space, like maybe a foot and a half.

And so I started army crawling. And got to where I needed to. I turned the light on and everything. I had a, had it, had this bulb. this this this light you know on a on a cable so i was i had so i could see everything and it was super hot i bet super hot did you do this in the summer it was in the summertime wow so i i'm sweating And I get up there.

And I got hung. Really? Yes. Your clothes or your body? My body got hung.

Man.

So I'm like, great. I'm like, how do I get out of this thing? I said, this was a dumb mistake.

So I fixed the cable, whatever I had to do, and I began to look around. And you cannot look around much because you crawl in and crawl out. Yeah, crawl in, crawl out. And imagine trying to do that under the podium that we have right now, the stage. It would be better, but it would be like, it would not be fun.

Yeah. You can't, there's not a lot of room under there. And this. This stage was not built on a concrete. This was built on another wooden stage.

So Everything is attached. Oh, that's even worse.

So for me to pull out, I can't just slide out. Right. Yeah. their planks and wood and open nails. Golly.

Yeah. How far is it?

Okay? Because everything that they knocked in, they're not going to come down and like turn the nails. How far in were you before you started really regretting it? I got in, I would say, maybe It was not that much, maybe, maybe three or four feet. I crawled in because I just had to get from here to there.

under the choir loft, had to get over there and then I I was like, Oh Great. I'm stuck. And there's no one here. In fact, that was a mistake. That was a mistake.

This is in the 90s before cell phones. This was 2000. Oh, wow. Open nails above you, live wires. Yes.

Water moccasins. Water moccasins are not here.

Okay. Water moccasins was under the actual sanctuary.

Okay. Okay. The pulpit was higher. Higher. It was set higher.

So thankfully, we can cause that one off the list. Yeah, there was no walk. Still have nails and live wires. Yes. And dust.

Yeah. I'm, I can't stand dust. Really? No. Don't go under our stage now.

It's dusty. I'll tell you that right now. I mean, it's. I'll start. Coughing and sneezing, wheezing.

That's what happens when I encountered, like, and this is like layers of dust. Yeah. Yeah. Because nobody had been down there in like maybe 20 years. That's wild.

Yes. Yeah. I would say less. Maybe they were they hadn't been down under the sanctuary in 20 years, but under the stage of that church, maybe 10 years. Yeah.

So all of this to say. If you're listening to this and you can say without a doubt, like, yes, that sounds like my pastor, my pastor would do that, then that's awesome. Yeah. What if that's not your pastor? What if your pastor is maybe not willing to do stuff like that?

He's going to sit in his office, he's going to shake hands with who he needs to shake hands with, and that's about it.

Well, here's what I would say: don't judge him for that. Do not judge him for that because that's what happens. It's very easy to criticize somebody and say, you know, look at this, my pastor is like this. No, show compassion. Maybe he cannot.

Maybe that's not what he's gifted in. Maybe that's not what he's able to. You step up and help him. You take up that. Don't sit there and say, Well, if you want us to do it, then you better do it too.

That's not the spirit. The spirit is okay. That's fine. If you cannot do it and this is not your thing, honestly, if somebody had said there were water moccasins there, I wouldn't have gone. Really?

I would not have gone. I don't think I would have even me neither.

So. How can I condemn another person and say, well, you should?

So I would say Just show grace. Yeah. And I think to me, like knowing that you are willing to do that stuff, man, it makes me want to do it. You know what I'm saying? If the person who's leading this charge, if the person who's leading this organization is willing to get down there and do stuff like that, even to this day, what is my holdup?

What am I waiting for? You know what I mean? What excuse would you have? Dr. Shah, talk in the few minutes we have left, talk to the person who is the leader, who is the pastor, who is the head of the organization and needs to set that example for.

The people that they're leading. I would say this: this show or this episode is not to shame you, is not to make you feel like you're not a good enough leader if you don't step out in front and crawl under a sanctuary with a lot of moccasins. This is that you're not a good leader. That's not the point. The point is that make sure that.

If you tell your people, go out there and witness for Jesus, then please you go out there and witness for Jesus. Yeah, that's right. If you tell your people, we need to go visit so-and-so, then you go visit. If you want your people to go to the hospital and make some hospital visits, you know, that's not always the favorite thing to do. Right.

Then you make sure you make some of those visits. Yeah. Because people learn by example.

So you may not get under. A a stage and crawl Army crawl with live wires and and open nails. and get hung. But there are other things that you need to show by example to your people. That you're not willing, that you're willing to do things that you're asking them to do.

That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

Step up and model for them. Amen. Leading by example and inspiring those around you. And, you know, that's what we're going through with Nehemiah. Nehemiah could have easily shown up and started doing it, but he got the pastors that the people were familiar with to lead by example and that visual sight.

You know, I know for a fact when I see my pastor stepping up to do things, like I said, it makes me want to do it. It makes me feel like this is the way. This is the safe area to go. That's right.

Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow. We're going to continue the conversation about Nehemiah and these efforts to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem. Make sure that you're sharing this content with those who are connected to you, your loved ones, your friends, your family. You can do that by following along on any one of our podcasting platforms. And you can also help us get the message out across the airways by giving financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give.

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