Hey guys, John here. I just want to take a quick moment and say thank you for tuning in to the Clearview Today Show. As you can imagine, producing a show like this takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of resources, and we are incredibly grateful to the Truth Network for giving us a platform to share the show, as well as Pray.com, TBN Plus. But just know that the majority of our support actually comes directly from listeners like you.
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Now let's jump into the show. Count it all joy when you fall into various trials. Only here's the thing, what is joyful about suffering? Here's why that works. Coming up today on the Clearview Today Show.
You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadanshah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis and welcome to another great episode of the Clearview Today Show with our host, Dr. Abaddon Shah.
If you're listening for the very first time today, Dr. Shah is a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Just want to let you know who's talking to you, Dr. Shah.
It's good to see you. It's good to see you as well and good to have Ryan back. Yes, good to be back. We had a lot of people texting in, where's Ryan? I listen to the show because I like it.
I'm scared. I'm out of my norm. Yeah, I'm scared. I don't know what the show is becoming. I was like, Grandma, quit texting.
Grandma, please. Trolling the show. It is good to be back. I miss being here with you guys. Yeah, yeah.
It was good to have you back. You know, we've been talking about trials. We've been talking about suffering. We've been talking about a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about through the book of Job, but now starting in James. And, you know, it's been a lot of good conversation.
And it actually, someone wrote in and submitted a verse of the day that really, I think, perfectly coincides with what we're talking about today. That's right. Our verse of the day today comes from Helena G from Los Angeles, California. It's Matthew 5 verses 11 through 12. It says, blessed are you when they revile and persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for my sake.
Rejoice and be exceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Feels like James might have heard Jesus say that and say, wait a minute. That actually sounds kind of good. Write that down.
What did he say? Count it all joy when you fall. Yeah, something like that. It's like these two verses that are so similar said by people who are very similar, like we talked about yesterday. Dr.
Shell, what is this idea that you're supposed to be happy and joyful when trials come your way?
Well, you talk about James and Jesus. Keep in mind, James was Jesus's half brother. And so maybe growing up, he must have heard Jesus say a few times, you need to find joy even in the midst of trials. And at the time, probably James must have brushed him off. Like, stop preaching to me.
You know, who knows what James must have said to Jesus. But then after Jesus's resurrection, he made a special visit. Jesus made a special visit to some of his disciples and to James. And I think that really transformed him. Already God was working in his life, but that really transformed him.
And he became the leader of the church in Jerusalem, which was the mother church at the time. And then he also wrote, which what many scholars believe as the first work, of course, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but the first work to be written in the New Testament canon.
So how amazing it is to hear the half brother of Jesus saying, count it all joy when you go through trials, because the early church was going through trials. Yeah. Yeah. James is a better, a better man than I am because he may have, he may have name dropped this in various conversations, but he doesn't in his letter. I would have absolutely been, Hey, this is James, the half brother of Jesus, your Lord, my Lord, just in case you forgot, he is my, my brother.
Um, but he didn't do that. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, you know, yesterday we talked about how trials are, you know, they're kind of like Thanos. They're inevitable, right? The two people who watched the infinity war are like, Oh yeah, I got that.
Everyone's like, what? What is that? What are we talking about? Trials are inevitable and trials are unpredictable. But, you know, something else we were talking about after we cut the mics yesterday, we kind of cut the mics off and we're walking downstairs.
We talked about how they're just so various. You know, what does he mean when he says various trials? Like there's so many different things that can be a trial in our life. The things that might be a trial for you are not a trial for me and vice versa. That's right.
We talked about trials being inevitable. We talked about trials being unpredictable. and then now they are variable it says various trials that word there in the greek it's kind of like the word we now think about as polka dots you know these uh they are multi-colored they come in various shapes so somebody may be going through physical pain somebody may be going through relationship pain somebody may be going through financial hardship they're different some of us may be facing a combination of two or even three or four different trials. I mean, so you never know what trial someone is going through because they are so variable, you know, they're just different.
So a word for trials, perosmos, is the same word from which we get the word pirates.
Okay. Perosmos, pirates, you know.
So just like the pirates, they come in different ways at different times to ransack, to loot, to kill, to destroy, to burn things down. Yeah. That's the idea behind trials. That's funny. They don't just come and say, we're going to do this.
Okay, we're going to come and go down the main street of this harbor town. Everyone knows we're coming. Yeah, we're going to steal the treasury. No, they're going to come and, I don't know, steal your chickens. Yeah.
Because they need food on the ship. I mean, that's what pirates did, right? They flew false colors. And then when they got close enough to where you can't run away, now they're here.
Now you realize who they really are. There's almost always an element of surprise. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
It's a surprise attack. That's what a pirate attack is. That's a good point. And sometimes just when you think, I know some of our listeners of yours may be wondering, how do you know that? Because we're all human beings.
Yeah. We go through this.
Sometimes just when you think, man, I'm good. My health is great. Oh, wait. My shoulder's been killing me. You know?
My shoulder's been killing me. Oh, financially, health may be a problem, but thank God, financially, we're at a very... Wait, you had a wreck? Mm-hmm. Great.
So the car is totaled? Yes. The emergency fund, gone.
Well, okay. We got to figure this out. We really need that right now. And we're not even talking about the big ones like cancer or death. You know, those are some big ones.
Yeah. But they are part of life. They are the variables when it comes to trials. bottom line is trials are coming whether you want them or not either you are coming out of one or you're getting ready to go into one right and they have the potential to tear you apart yeah what do you say to people who are like you know that sounds like me I mean we kind of ended with this yesterday but maybe right here at the beginning of the show there someone who saying you know I am going through something right now Well you know what is your encouragement to them as we kind of dive into this conversation Well I would say just remember trials can either make you better or they can make you better. You know, when the pandemic happened, when the COVID, the whole mess began a lot of us were completely disheveled we were shocked surprised we were entering into that unprecedented territory you know how many how often did we hear that word man every other sentence i got so sick of hearing this is unprecedented this is unprecedented okay all right we got it it's funny because it's such a it's it's such a valid fine word to use but it's like, I can't stand here in this word now.
Now I can't even feel like I can't use it. Yeah. And so, uh, you know, when, when it all began and y'all were all here at the time, um, and, and I was like, you know, I need to talk to a friend, somebody who's been through life longer than I have and has made more right decisions than wrong decisions.
So I'm going to call this person up and ask, see what he says. And so he gave me a great advice.
Some of y'all have heard me share that with you which is the big question is what will people say about you after this crisis is over yeah and i still think back to that statement that he made or the advice that he gave me what will people say about you when all this is over i was like wow that's that's powerful and so with that being in a sense the north star for me I began to tell you guys he said guys when we come out of this because there is going to be a day we're going to come out of this now many of us thought the day was going to be like a month after yeah after the shutdown began a week two weeks a month yeah no more than a month yeah and then it was like oh six months nope a year no two years I mean it went on and on and on yeah it was depressing discouraging shocking we saw people's behaviors in ways that you know indescribable I'm sure our listeners of yours have their own experiences. Nonetheless, that became the guiding principle for us. What will they say about me? And I want our listeners and viewers to do the same thing. When you go through life, especially trials, ask yourself that question.
What do you want people to say about you when this trial is over? Because this trial has a timeline. It will be over. You're going to get through. But the question is, what will they say about you?
Now, you may say, I don't really care what they say about me. I don't care. That doesn't bother me. That's not the main. I understand.
But your concern or your focus on what people will say about you will drive you to face this trial differently. That's true.
So it's not just, I'm not concerned about what people say about me. I mean, somewhat I am, but it's not the end of the world for me either. but that guided me that I was going to be more scripturally minded. I'm going to trust God more. I'm going to focus on him.
I'm not going to waste my time hiding. I'm going to say, God, what can I do to make an impact for the gospel? Because evil is on the march. I don't, I don't want to succumb to evil. What do you want me to do?
So that became my kind of like operating principle in everything I did.
Well, I think you as a public figure, it might be easier for you to think in this way. What I mean by that is like for you, it's not so much what are people going to say about me because it's very important what they think about me. It's more because I can make much more impact if people trust me, if people see that I'm going to lead them into a resolution from this situation or this trial or whatever it is. And so maybe it's the case and tell me what you think about this, but maybe it's the case that people think, well, no one's looking to me to lead them. I just need to get through this.
But maybe it's that God is trying to get you through this. Like we said yesterday, because there's something better on the other side. But also, what are people going to say about you when this is over? Because they're looking to you. They're looking to trust you.
Well, I feel like a lot of people sort of undercut that because, you know, you mentioned Dr. Charlotte, I don't care what people think about me. We often take that stance, that mindset when people say something negative, like I don't care. Your opinion of me doesn't matter. What you say to tear me down isn't going to matter.
Well, what if it's what kind of impact you're going to have? What if it's what kind of the ripples of your character, how that's going to influence people, how you're going to be able to lead people, the platform that God is potentially setting you up for. You don't get to go through this again. You don't get to go take another lap and be like, well, let me change how I did that. This is your one shot.
But this is it. Because we have such a low view of ourselves in the people and our lives, we tend to think that. But imagine one of these pastors, right? These mega leaders who have fallen from grace, involved in scandals. They come out and say, hey, listen, I'll just be honest with you.
I don't care what any of y'all say about me. It really doesn't affect me. That's not a satisfactory answer. Because you know that ultimately, number one, yes, you do. But you are making an impact in people's lives.
You're influencing people. That's correct. Yeah. So going back to James, I would say the same thing. Ask yourself that question.
You're going to get through this trial, but what will people say about you? Will they say that you were a person who counted it all joy? Because that's what James says here. How do you face trials? Count it all joy.
The word count can also be read calculate. Calculate is kind of a mathematical term where you take a count. take account of how you can be joyful so you know what happened when you were saved well your sins were forgiven your name was written in heaven but there are other things that happen as well your priorities changed your values have changed so at one time it was all about your comfort but now it's about your character that's a great that's a great point i've seen that in myself as I've gotten older. I care less about my comfort and more about my character, my development as a person and as a Christian. I love that differentiation too, between count and calculate count can just be like, force yourself to believe, like just kind of like, will it like, I'm going to count this this way, but calculate is more methodical.
It's more like, I'm going to assess what I, what I've been given and I'm going to calculate that these trials there, they lead to joy. That's right. So not about your comfort, about your character. How is your character developing. Yeah.
There's some people though, where it's like, I hear you. I need to be joyful about this. I need to count it all joy, but I just need to fuss. I need to gripe. I need to complain.
You may not say that with your lips, but in your heart, you know that that's the only thing that's the only thing in trials that actually makes you feel better is just fussing and griping and making sure everybody knows. Another place that you can calculate it's, it's not about your happiness is more about God's holiness.
So how is God's holiness impacting your daily walk, your thoughts, your words, your actions? How is God's holiness impacting? How is it impacting your soul and how is it impacting others around you? Because you are making an impact. Are they holier now?
Not just like holier than thou, but are they walking closer to God's standard of holiness? Are they being more obedient to God's word? Are they demonstrating the life of Jesus more or less? Because there have been environments that I been in where people have made me less like Christ because of just their cavalier attitude towards sin their sexual innuendos and jokes that are just very low crass. They didn't make me holy, just kind of like, oh, we're playing with fire.
And I guess It's okay to play with fire because he is playing with fire.
So I must be okay to do that. But you walk away going, huh, that's not, I don't feel holy. I feel kind of hollow right now. Yeah. Or watching movies or listening to music or reading literature that is just not clean.
And you go, huh, I've done it. My heart was racing as I was doing it. But in reality, it didn't help me any. Yeah. Yeah.
That's not good.
So you also need to, when you're talking about counting all joy, you know, more practically speaking, it's calculating, calculate that it's not about our own self. It's about others. How others focused have you become? Not others focused as in like this, this save the world person. No, others focused as in, I'm going to let Jesus shine through me.
What do you say to people who would hear that, right? And they know that's the right answer. That's the Christian answer is that when I'm going through trials, I should be, I should be able to think about, you know, how is this trial going to help someone else, a Christian brother or sister, be more like Jesus.
Someone might hear that and say, look, I know that's the right answer, but come on, that's not realistic. That's not what I'm thinking about when I'm suffering. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I tell people like that, you're wasting your trials because the trial is not designed just to punish you or prove that you're strong.
No, the trial is designed to change your character, to make you more like Jesus, to prepare you for eternity. I mean, that's what we're doing, right? This life is a prep for the life to come. How we live here matters. And so don't waste your trials.
Yeah, I love that. Don't ignore them either. Let's take a quick break. God. The Hebrew phrase for sons of God is Bin Ra Alekhim or sons of Alekhim.
And throughout the Hebrew Bible, that phrase consistently refers to divine beings, members of God's heavenly council. They're spiritual beings that were appointed by God to carry out his purposes. We see this clearly in Job chapter 1 and chapter 2, where the sons of God present themselves before the Lord. And in Job 38, they're there shouting for joy at the creation of the universe.
Now, it does help if we pause to talk a bit more about what kind of divine beings these sons of God were in their role in heaven before they fell. We live, we definitely live with a mindset of maximize the good, minimize the bad. And if at the end of your life, you had way more good than bad than you've had. Yeah, it's all good. You've had a successful life.
Well done. Yeah. Well, I like the way you say that. And I haven't heard people say that you're wasting your trial. Right.
You know, this, this means this trial is an opportunity. This trial is an opportunity for you to do something. Yeah. And become someone. Talking about joy, you know, what is this joy all about?
Well, Jesus had this joy and it talks about that. And he talks about it in Matthew chapter five, verses 11 through 12. He says, blessed are you when they revile and persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven. So Jesus pointed to the reward in the future as a reason for joy.
Wow.
So now step into the shoes of not only the first century Christians, but also persecuted Christians throughout the ages. What brought joy into their hearts as they are being tortured, as they're being persecuted, as their family members are taken away and tortured and thrown in prison, or their loved ones are shot and killed or their churches are being burned or their finances are being taken away by laws that are meant just to harass Christians. How do you find joy? I mean, think about that. How do you find joy?
Well, Jesus says it, rejoice and be exceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven. means the focus should be on the future of what is coming. That should fuel your joy. Not just in the moment I feel happy, but knowing that at the end.
So when we're doing projects here, whether it is books, videos, messages, worship songs, whatever we're doing, at the moment it's a lot of work. grueling work, sacrifices have to be made. Hours and hours of tedious, persistent work has to be done. But the reward is what you're focusing on. One day when that CD comes or that, you know, you go to your iTunes account and you see the album mentioned there and people are downloading it.
Yeah. or your book is in the bookstore or you open up Amazon and type in the name and here it comes up or you hear testimonies of lives being greatly impacted by whatever, whether it's music or books or podcasts or radio shows like this one right here, Clearview Today. What does that do? It fills your heart with joy. Absolutely.
It's like, man, that's, that's amazing. Yeah. Cause at the end of the day, I really, I mean, I know you're kind of referencing the album. I don't remember the hours in the studio. I mean, I remember it, but it's not, I'm not focused right now on the hours of sit there listening to a click track, do this for eight, 10 hours a day, nonstop.
I'm remembering the idea, the, the feeling of seeing our church family taking those CDs home, listening to them, other churches starting to incorporate those songs into their worship. That's what I remember.
Well, I think that goes back to your question. What, what do you want people to say about you when this is all over? That's, that's not just, you know, I'm, I'm walking through this current trial, that's at the end of your life. What do you want people to say about you? What kind of impact do you want to leave?
What lasting legacy do you want to have for the people who are coming behind you? And you've said this as far as just like a leadership principle that the most successful people are almost always the ones who are future focused. Yeah, they have to be. I mean, Paul was. Yeah.
In 2 Corinthians 7, 9, Paul says, now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance.
Sorrow led to repentance means it was something that was not just hanging in the past, but it was making an impact in the future. It led to repentance and a changed life and a changed perspective and a fruitful life. That's what happened.
So Paul had this joy because he was also a forward focused person. And so Paul tells the Corinthians that their sorrow brought repentance. Knowing this would happen, Paul was joyful. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it reminds me of, you know, discussions we've had, maybe this is a discussion for another day because we're running out of time, but like the difference between leaders and workers, you know, in any, in any, any organization, you're going to have people who are like, Hey, I'm not worried about the future.
Just tell me where to put this box. Tell me where to, where to categorize this and just tell me what to do. And at five o'clock I'm going home. And you know, a lot of times when we go through trials, a lot of us, even who are leaders and who are Christians, we act that way It like just what do I need to say Tell me what to pray I pray this I pray that the God will stop this I just want to get through this as quickly as possible And just like you said you wasting this opportunity to lead Give me the steps to follow Yeah that right Peter says the same thing. He says in first Peter chapter one, verse eight, he says, though now you do not see him yet believing you rejoice with joy inexpressible.
Now in different stages in life, this is appealing or not. When you're young, it's not very appealing as a teenager, though now you do not see him yet believing you rejoice with joy and expressible.
Okay, great. I'm going to one day see Jesus and that brings joy to my heart.
Some teenagers maybe. Yeah. That was not me. Yeah. Even young adults, even people sometimes in the midlife, you know, they may not be like all of a sudden giddy over this verse, though now you do not see him yet believing.
You rejoice with joy inexpressible. I can't say that word. No, but the older you get, the more you walk with Christ and the more you begin to see, even though the finish line may be miles away from you, you begin to see that finish line. And having gone through all that you've gone through and then you see that life is tough, seeing the finish line and seeing your maker, your savior, your king standing there waiting for you, that's what brings joy.
So don't discount this future focus just because right now the finish line is way out there. Yeah. I think that makes perfect sense. Yeah? Yeah.
Because sometimes people say, I like reading the Bible. It just doesn't make sense. I get it. I get it. It's not because the Bible doesn't make sense or the Bible is not applying to your life or you're just a very different individual who is moved by different.
No, it's none of those things. You just have to go through life. Yeah. When you experience life, that's when you go, oh, this book is worth dying for. Yeah.
Yeah. This is like no other book on the face of the earth in the universe. Because these are the words of God. This is life. This is what throughout history people have been waiting for and willing to die for.
This is it. This is what brings true joy.
So, yeah. I mean, count it all joy. Calculate it all joy. I love it. And that book is our guide, especially in trials.
I mean, when you're going through those trials, when you're going through that difficult situation, it can be difficult to hold on to the promises of God. All the more reason to open your Bible and read them and remind yourself of who God is, who you are in him and what he said about this trial, what he said about your ability to see it through the other side. That's right. And how you cannot waste your trial. I love that reminder.
And for everybody who's listening today, just just I think to remember that not only is your trial an opportunity, but your trial is given to you by God. God is trusting you with this trial. And just like Dr. Shah was saying earlier, the younger you are, the harder it is to see it. I completely relate to that.
I always feel like, you know, it's hard for me to consider myself a young person because I've only ever been this age. But I am seeing just what he's saying, that the older I get, the more value I start to take in these things that I didn't take value in as a young man. Yeah. So it does become easier the more that you stick with it and the more that you listen to shows like this. This show is committed to not only walking you through your trial just to help you get over it or get through it, but to make the most out of it and to be obedient to God even in your trials to become that person he wants you to become.
Yeah, to give you a clearer picture of what God is doing in those trials. It's not just about getting to the other side. It's about how you can be obedient and faithful through that trial and find joy. That's right. So good.
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