In authoritarian countries, power is used to silence questions and punish dissent. But do you know sometimes Christians actually see God as a dictator to be feared instead of a redeemer who invites our questions? Correcting that perspective and more coming up right now on Lucy or Region Nation. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome, welcome, welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We've got a great conversation with you here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. If you're listening for the very first time today, Dr.
Shah is a Ph.D. in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, it's a great day. Welcome to the day.
Amen. Welcome, welcome. Is that why you said three? Welcome, welcome, welcome. I didn't, but yeah, I mean, you can see.
Oh, welcome for everybody. You're going to welcome, and you get a welcome. We can do it. You're going to welcome, and everybody gets welcome. We can do it in reverse order if you want.
I could say, Welcome, welcome, welcome. Oh, and it's still, and that's the thing, it still works. It's like a palindrome, but for um, but for greeting people, there you go, Dr. Shao, we got a lot to talk about today. We're diving back into our series on the book of Job.
You know, we've been talking about Job a lot, and we were going to continue. And then the world sort of went crazy for a week. Everything was kind of happening all at once.
So, we wanted to talk about it. But now we want to dive back into the book of Job and we're talking about these schemas, right? Do you want to just kind of briefly, if someone has just started listening today or last week, they're saying, What in the world is a schema? What does it got to do with Job? Yeah.
So, when I started praying about preaching to the book of Job, I had my best commentaries Together.
Some I already had, some I had to purchase. I try to have the best resources possible.
So pastors, if you're listening, or Sunday school teachers or discipleship group leaders, make sure that you have some solid resources. Don't just settle for the commentaries that are on your shelf. Go and invest. How do you know which commentary to get? There are commentary surveys out there.
There's one for the New Testament, then there's one for the the Old Testament. The New Testament, sort of the latest one is by D. A. Carson. It's it's a little old now.
But I don't think D.A. Carson is putting out any more works right now. But go ahead and get that commentary survey and you'll know which commentary to get and different commentaries, what do they do. And so I got some commentaries for the book of Job. And the Old Testament section, by the way, is written by Tremper Longman.
And then I was like Something is missing.
Something is missing. And so I went to the academic search sites. And you have to be part of universities or seminaries where you can access academic search engines. And so I put in there. What are people talking about academically about the book of Job?
And Trauma came up. And I was like, nope. Nope. Our world has made too much of trauma. We got enough of that.
Too much of trauma. But I was like, you know what? Let me s see if somebody who is halfway sane talking about trauma With regards to Joe, because of course Job went through trauma, did he not? I mean, I cannot deny that. I have to believe that that he went through trauma.
He loses his livestock, his servants get killed, fire falls from heaven, and then his children die. And then He is um You know, he's covered in boils. He goes from having everything to having. Almost nothing, yeah. I'd be traumatized if I had one of those happen, right?
Yeah, and they're happening in rapid succession, means you don't even have time to breathe. You don't even have time to process what is happening.
So that man went through trauma.
So I cannot deny that. But the moment somebody says, oh, we're going to look at a trauma therapy approach to the Bible, I'm like, oh. Right. We're going to bend it to make it say whatever you want it to say. All right, I'm not listening to you.
But then I was like, you know what? Let me just see where did this person get their. doctorate if they have a doctorate. And so I I first I identified one coll uh named Michelle Keener who got her uh a doctorate from Liberty University. I said, Okay, Liberty University, I know where they stand biblically and when it comes to moral and ethical and spiritual and doctrinal issues.
Okay.
Alright, she can't be too crazy. Yeah.
So I I said, okay, let me go check her work. And I did and I was like Very interesting. She is using good scholarly work, which is Um You know, approved by most Old Testament scholars.
So she's using David Klein's work. She's using C. L.
So's work. She's using Longman's work. I may not agree with everything he writes, but I'm like, okay. She's not just Just running crazy with Counseling and psychology and psychiatry. She is reading.
Um critical works. But then the way she is looking at the scripture, especially the book of Job, It's very interesting. It is opening new vistas. for us to appreciate The inerrant, infallible, authoritative, sufficient, necessary, clear word of God. And so I was like, very, very trepiditiously, I sort of stepped into that direction of.
Trauma. As An angle to study the book of Job. And the more I got into it, I realized that she was quoting some others who had also approached the subject from that angle. And I was like, okay.
Some are going a little crazy, but but If if If looked at with balance And not compromising core doctrinal beliefs. We can get something out of this. Yeah, that's true.
So initially, I had a list of commentaries.
Some of those I haven't even opened yet. Wow. Because I went in a different direction. Yeah.
They're on my shelf, and they're great. When it comes to grammar and syntax and all, great. But I think they're missing something. Yeah.
So, is she the resource you learned about schemas from? Yes.
Okay.
That's the reason why I'm talking about this. I know sometimes listeners and viewers are like, like my wife, Nicole, she's like, get to the point. I'm like, honey, I'm getting to it. But you need to understand why.
So, yes. And so, once. And we had talked about trauma because my wife. Nicole's master's is in trauma therapy. And so she had talked about schemas before.
So I was like, Huh. That would be interesting. to look at the book of Job and see How he's handling the schemas of life.
So, what is a schema? A schema is a deeply held core belief. What happens during a trauma? Or traumas? It's like Imagine your living room, beautiful windows looking out into the front yard.
And imagine a rock going right through one of those windows. And these core beliefs don't necessarily have to be Christian or even religious. They're just core beliefs. Core beliefs. Yeah, I mean, definitely, as a believer, you have Christian beliefs.
God is good. God is gracious. God blesses those who obey Him. If you do things God's way, man, God's going to take care of you. These are our core beliefs.
And yes. They are true, but there are some qualifiers. Right. And I think where this series on Job has been so profound, it's been so impactful in people's lives, is recognizing where those schemas have been challenged or even broken in our own lives. Yeah.
Where those windows have been shattered, and now we're left to pick up the pieces and figure out. Can we even put this window back together?
Well, it's also such a unique way. Because I mean, like, if you do a Christian talk show and you say, All right, guys, we're doing a series on the book of Job. It's like, how many episodes can you get out of how to suffer? You know, like suffering in the Christian life. Trust God in suffering.
Why do bad things happen? Like, okay, yes, we can talk about that, but everybody and their grandmother has talked about that. It's been talked to death for the last what, 4,000 years since the book of Job actually happened. Absolutely. But then you talk about the book of Job, and it's like, what the book of Job shows you, what do you do when your core beliefs about God aren't completely true?
Right. That's a question that Christians don't really ask. Yeah.
Or don't even think to ask. And I didn't. It's always relevant. Always, no matter how the situations of life change around you, the fact that schemas will be challenged, broken down, and then rebuilt correctly, that's something that's true in a timeless way. Absolutely.
There are people sitting in our pews, and I'm talking to pastors and church leaders. There are people sitting in your pews right now whose schemas have been shattered. Yeah.
Because of some trauma in their life. And trauma doesn't always have to be a hurricane or a cancer report or a breakdown of a marriage. You know, trauma can be as simple as: man, I thought my family would be close, but they're not close anymore. I thought my health would be great at this age in my life. Man, I have an empty nester, and his life is great.
We're going to trap. What? Yeah, you got to come back in because we're looking at your blood report, and it seems like there are some issues here. But let's do another test. Let's get us.
and all of a sudden you go Really? And here's a common schema that people suffer with. Which is Mm-hmm. I've been a good guy. I'm not perfect, but I've been a good person.
This should not be happening to someone like me. I don't deserve this. I don't deserve this. And that's the most common schema that has been shattered in most Christians' lives. And they sit there Sunday after Sunday and they look at the pastor and they go, I know Jesus is real and I know I'm saved and I know I'm going to heaven, but right now, I just really don't know.
Who God is. Yeah.
'Cause everything that I thought Is wrong. Yeah, he has. Disappointed me, but I'm too not afraid like he's gonna kill me, but I just I don't wanna be I don't wanna be a heretic by saying something blasphemous, but I just don't know. How could a God who loves me, cares for me, gave his son for me, told me to pray, ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock in the door shall be all that. And and I have done that.
And yet This.
Well, that sort of leads into what we were going to talk about today, which is another commonly held schema. Just like you said, I see all these things happening, I'm suffering, but I know better than to question it. Yeah.
I know better than to question God because you don't do that. Maybe Mima taught me that, or maybe I just know he's all powerful. You learned that in Sunday school. Yeah.
I know I've got to grit my teeth and get through the suffering because I know better than to question God. You don't do that. Yeah, you're not allowed to. You know, some time back we talked about a couple of weeks ago, we talked about. Maduro.
Maduro, the dictator of Venezuela.
Now more and more is coming out that how many thousands of people that he had imprisoned and killed, and then he sent all those drugs into America and hundreds of thousands of kids have been have lost their lives or adults have died because of this m man. But he was a dictator. Who's a dictator? Is a person. Who tells you what to do?
As long as you listen and obey, no problem. But if you object If you stand up. If you question that Supreme Leader You'll pay a heavy price. Yeah.
You may either end up in prison. Or you maybe Beaten? Or you may lose Your business? Or one of your children? There are heavy consequences when you question.
These dictators. And a lot of times you think we've put that image on God. Absolutely. Yeah.
We think that's how God is. Oh yes, he loves me. He gave his son to die on the cross for me. But you know, I I've I have some questions, but Uh I just gotta trust God, man. I just gotta be patient and wait on God.
Yeah.
How's your relationship with God? Oh, good. Good. Good, man. Man, yeah.
Doesn't sound good. There's not much of a relationship. I pray every day and I ask God, but do you. Do you ever bring your doubts and your frustrations to God and say, God, I don't understand. Why did you allow this to happen?
Oh no, I mean, look, sometimes we need to just, you know, know that God knows what's best and just keep on going. I hear you, brother. Thank you for your spiritual life. Thank you for your, you know, just your uplifting. faith and trust in God, but I don't Could it be that you're just saying those words and you don't believe what you're saying?
Could it be that In in your heart of hearts, you are Disappointed with God? And you're wondering If God is so big, so powerful, Why did he allow this to happen? I think if more of us were honest, we would say that there are those things that we want to know. We want to ask God. We want to bring before God, but we're afraid to.
Like, you don't, you don't. Question: The teacher, you don't question the principal, you don't question your parents, you don't question God. You just accept it. Yeah, because if God is the ultimate authority, we do, I think, there is some of that. Like the Eastern mindset of he's the authority.
You don't question him. Why don't you question him?
Well, because he'll get angry. Because he'll punish you. And we may not say that with our mouths, but I think we do feel it in our hearts.
So, what can we learn from Job about this schema? How does it break down? How does Job process it? And what lessons can we learn?
So, we need to back up. to the fourth chapter of the book of Job. All right.
So, what do we find in the fourth chapter?
Well, in the first couple of chapters, there is no problem. If you look at the book of Job, Job chapter. One, his life is great. Everything is going wonderful. And Satan has a conversation with God, and then Job's world falls apart.
But Job's response is: God gives, God takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord. No problem. Chapter 2, Satan comes back again, and this time it's touches body. If you touch his body, he's going to curse you to your face. God gives him permission.
And Job's response again is you know, to his wife. Are we only only going to accept the good from God and not the evil? And in all this Job did not sin. Nor did he curse God. Wow.
Wow. What a great guy But then in Job chapter 3. There's a shift. And what is the shift? The shift is Job begins by saying, Oh I wish the day that I was born could perish.
Oh, I wish that day would be cursed When I was born, my man is not having a good time. Job. Job suddenly gets overtly melancholy. What is it, Job, and the horrible, no-good? The terrible, horrible, no-good girl.
Yeah, there it is. There it is. And he's talking about dying. He wishes he was not even alive. Mm-hmm.
And then Job chapter 4 is when his friends begin to speak to him.
So There are three dialogue cycles that happen, starting in Job chapter 4 and I think 15 and chapter 22. These are three dialogue cycles where his friends accuse him of something in his life. that he has done wrong. That he needs to repent and get it right with God, and God's going to bless him again. That's right.
Something he's doing wrong. But Job Starting in chapter three, even before the dialogue cycle, because Job really initiates this and really makes his friends angry, is that. I haven't done anything wrong. Why are you doing this to me?
Now ch if you only read chapter one and two, which most Christians do, And they read chapter 41. Yeah, they skipped the middle part where Job is not. Happy with God. Not happy, God. Not happy with God.
Happy. Shout out Incredibles. Great movie.
So. What do we know about Job? Job had a strong relationship with God. Job loved the Lord. Job also knew about the coming Redeemer, the coming mediator.
He talks about that later in one of his speeches.
So we know that he had a relationship with the living true God. He had a relationship with the coming one, the promised Son of God. But he In that relationship he felt free. and at ease to question God. He did not think, oh, if I have a relationship with God, I shouldn't say anything.
No, he questioned God. In fact, right here in Job chapter 19 and verse 6, it says, Know then that God has wronged me. That's not in Job chapter 1 or 2. But in chapter nineteen he says, Know then that God has wronged me, and has surrounded me with his net? If I cry out concerning wrong, I am not heard.
My God is not listening to me. It's funny that he's saying that because we would say, now, Job. Job, you shouldn't say that. You can't say that to God. What's wrong with you?
Oh, not to say that. But. It's so funny that we feel those things all the time. We relate to that so much, but with our lips, we say, Hey, Job, uh-uh. Yeah.
Go back to what you were saying in chapter one and two. Yeah, that was good. That's how the Christian options are. That's how Christian ought to be. He was one of our kids.
We'd be like, ah. Yeah.
It's a very southern thing. Was that a thing in India when you were growing up? Like, if you were doing something, your mom could just make a sound or something. No, that's funny. That's the wrong buzzer.
Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it shows that Job is such a profound book because we're not just, you know, taught these platitudes about suffering. It's Job walking through suffering and giving us a model to follow. Right. Giving us a picture of how the human mind and human heart processes difficult times in life and how God is still good.
But that doesn't mean that we can't question in those difficult times. Yeah.
That relationship with God. allows us and even welcomes our questions because Because if we are not questioning I believe it's because we're not rightly related to God. I believe you. I think you're right.
Now that r that questioning does not have to be disrespectful. That questioning does not have to be blasphemous. I don't think for a single moment did Job curse God. In those questions in those dialogues. No, but he did question God.
He did it reverentially. In fact, in chapter 28, he even talks about wisdom and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and to shun evil is understanding. I mean, he even acknowledges that and says that in those calm moments when he was having a good day, he's saying, like, yes, fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. He was not rude, he was not hateful, he was not being obnoxious, but And and having that relationship with God. He felt comfortable.
to say I'm not getting it. What are you doing? Yeah, that was something you taught me early on as one of the pillars of leadership: to know. Who are your people, you know what I mean? And the people who will come to you, like you said, respectfully, but say, hey, look.
You know, last week you sent out this email. I'm not understanding this. Help me figure this out because I'm, you know, they question you. Right. Those are the people that trust you.
Right. The people that you got to watch out for, the people who don't trust you are the ones who just nod, stay silent. They'll go talk with each other. Right. But they won't ever bring you.
They won't come tell you. Yes.
Or in your family, if you have that person who's like, uh-huh, yep. Everything good. You're like, huh.
Something not good. You're up to something. I feel like I'm going to get a phone call from my mom later.
Someone somewhere, somewhere, is having a conversation behind my back.
Something's not right. But the person comes up and says, like Nicole will do, it's like, why did you do that? Is because she has a strong relationship with me, her husband.
So she feels comfortable enough to say. Hey, d w you did that. You said that. Why did you say that? Same thing is happening here with Job.
He's questioning God. Why? Because he feels at ease to do that. God is his heavenly father. Jesus is his Savior, even though he hasn't met Jesus yet.
But he knows that. This is the wrong schema that most people struggle with, which is. God is punishing me for what I have done. I wonder also how it makes God feel, you know what I mean? To be treated like a dictator.
There was a guy, we used to have someone on the worship team, and whenever I would say something or be like, hey, we're going to do this course down, or we're going to take the bridge, or we're just going to cut this song entirely. I could tell that some people didn't like it, but typically they would be like, oh man, I really love that chorus. All right, maybe next time. But there was always one person who was like, You're the boss, whatever you say. And that annoyed me and hurt me more than anything else.
I would have much rather than fought and screamed and been like, hey, I love this course. You're making a mistake. I couldn't stand the, you're the boss. Yeah.
Whatever you say. Yeah, but we do that to God all the time. We do it to God every single time we go through something. Yeah.
Yeah, that response just kind of makes you feel sick when you hear it. It doesn't make you feel good. It doesn't make you feel like you're kind of leading the way. It makes you feel like someone's talking about you behind your back. And God, and God is giving us, like you said, Dr.
Shaw, a lot of the times, most times probably, God is setting up the suffering in our lives to teach us something or to show us something that we can't learn otherwise. And instead of engaging with the lesson, we're just like, okay. Yeah, I'm going to wait for it to be over. Right. And this is what his friends were telling him.
Elifaz. Um build that so far. Um we're telling him, hey, just don't question God. Yeah.
You messed up? Own it? And God will forgive you and start blessing you again. And Job's like, nope, not going to do it.
Now, one reason that Job did not listen to his friends is because he had the spirit of discernment. Of course he had the Holy Spirit. People are like, oh, no, the Holy Spirit did not come until the day of Pentecost. No, he did not come in all power. On the day of Pentecost, but the Holy Spirit was always there.
Right. And he always indwelt the believer. Maybe not in the same way. Where he manifests gifts through us and all that. But in some ways, he was already doing that, he did that with David.
And David said, You know, don't take the Holy Spirit from me. What does that mean? It meant. Um I don't want to be I I don't want to go back to the life without you. I don't want to go back to the empty life.
So please don't take the Holy Spirit. Not that he was going to stop being saved. He just. did not want to lose the conviction and the encouragement of the Holy Spirit in this life. And one reason that Job was not listening to his buddies is because in chapter four Eliphaz had already said that he had a vision from a spirit.
I mean he he says, my hair on my on my body stood up. And what did this vision say to him? What did this spirit say to him? It said that human beings are terrible, they're pathetic, they drink iniquity like water. God would never say that.
I was going to say, I've never had the Holy Spirit tell me that. Double telltale signs that this was not from God. Yeah.
Yeah.
And then later on, Eliphaz repeats that vision in Job fifteen, and he says, What is man that he could be pure? And he who is born of a woman that he could be righteous? Yeah, you're right. There is none righteous, none who seeks after God. But God sent His Son for us.
Eliphaz's vision only gives the finality of the unrighteousness. and the irredeemable nature of humanity. But The truth is that We take on the righteousness of Christ. The truth is that we are redeemable. Through the blood of Christ.
So Job had enough sense to go, um Elephaz, I don't know who you're listening to. We need to talk. But I'm not going to buy into your schema. That's right.
Man, it's so profound to walk through the book of Job and to hear how these schemas are breaking down and how impactful it is to think about how those schemas break down in our own lives. That's right.
I pray that this was beneficial for you at home listeners and viewers. And if it was, take this episode and share it with your loved ones. God is using the book of Job in powerful ways, not just here on the Clearview Today show, but he can do the same in your life. That's right.
That's right.
Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And if today is your first time listening to the show, hey, we love you. We're glad that you're here.
I hope you join us again for the conversation tomorrow. Don't forget that you can follow along anywhere you get your podcasts from, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Prey.com, TBN Plus, Truth Network. Lots of ways to follow along. And you can also support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. Nashville 2026 Clearview Today Show is coming NRB.
We're going to be there from February 17th all the way to February 20th. That's three days. We want you guys to come see us. We're going to be there as part of Pray.com. We're going to be doing some interviews there.
We're also going to be doing some interviews. Interviews over at the Truth Network booth. We're going to be just doing some shows on the convention floor. We may even shoot. We may even come to your hotel room and do some.
No, we're not going to do that. But we will come and see you and we want you to come and see us. Say hello to Dr. Shaw, say hello to us. We'd love to meet all of you guys, learn more and more and more about your ministries.
Also, big, big, big conference is happening here at the Clearview Church, March the 28th, Apologetics Conference, looking at the Byzantine text, looking behind it, underneath it, all around it. We've got tickets on sale right now in the link in the description of this video. You can follow the link. You can use promo code today, T-O-D-A-Y at checkout to get 20% off your purchase. We can't wait to see you guys there.
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