People go through life believing that all the bad that happens to them is simply because of all the bad they've done in the past. But guess what? You do that, you're gonna end up judging everybody else by the exact same lens. Correcting that lens coming up today on the Theory Today Show. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to your midweek pick-me-up right here in the Clearview Today studio. We are so glad you're joining us here today.
We want to welcome our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. For those of you guys who are listening for the very first time today, welcome. Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show.
Dr. Shah, good to see you. You guys as well. Absolutely. Welcome, welcome.
Glad to see all you guys joining us online as well on Pray.com, TBN.com, Truth. Network Radio. You know, everything we do here in the studio, from producing the show to sharing the word online, it happens because listeners like you are listening faithfully.
So here's the thing. We want you, if you've been blessed by the Clearview Today show, and you know you have, all of you out there, this show has brought you some great wisdom over the years and a couple of laughs, right? A couple of laughs. I would like to think you hesitated, though. You're like, eh.
No, I would like to think of that. I was joking around. But listen, if you've been blessed by the Clearview Today show, we want you to consider partnering with us financially. It's very easy. It's very secure.
You can go to Abadansha.com. Forward slash give. And if you do give, let us know because we want to be able to send you a little something from the studio, just a little gift to say thank you so much for giving and supporting this ministry. That's right. It's meant a lot to us going through this journey for the last few years, and we hope that it has meant a lot to you as well.
We count you as part of our Cleavy Today Show family in reaching the nations with the gospel of Jesus. That's right. And you know, you can also give on pray.com. You can become what's called a super donor. And just know that if you do that through the Dr.
Abadan Shah page, you're not only helping us here at the Cleavy Today Show, but you're helping 19 million Christians across the world be able to have access to the gospel right on their phone.
So thank you for giving. Thank you for pray.com. Dr. Shah, we're back in the book of Job. Absolutely.
Absolutely. And I'm excited to be back because the book of Job is amazing. And It has touched so many lives, and people have been asking about it. Yes.
So here we are. It's a book that has been misunderstood by many people for many years because it's such an unusual book. I mean, you have this kind of framework of prose, poetry, prose, and there's lots of chapters in the middle where there's dialogue back and forth, and you talk about these crazy monsters like Leviathan and Behemoth. And we get to the end and we still really don't even understand what it is that we just read. But, Dr.
Show, we've been talking a lot off-mic about these different schemas. You know, you've mentioned that word a little bit in, I think, the episodes that Nicole has done with us based on Job's trauma and stuff like that. Schemas. What are schemas? Schemas are these deeply held core beliefs that we have.
We pick these up as we go through life, whether it's in your home or in your church or in your family or just through circumstances in life. We pick up these ideas that we believe to be core foundational truths for life. And so. And You know, when trauma happens, when a tragedy strikes, it can be anything from. Having a health scare, or a divorce, or a breakdown in a relationship in the family, anything can happen: financial problems, job loss.
It's like Imagine those schemas as windows in a house. Those windows help you see the world. And in a sense, those windows also keep you safe from the world.
So the schemas are the windows in your house. Trauma is like a rock flying through the window and shattering the glass.
Now the schema has been broken.
Now part of it may still be standing, but there is shattered glass on the floor. It's broken and you all of a sudden have a distorted view of the world. All of a sudden you feel unsafe. Because now if it's cold outside, it's cold inside, hot outside. Hot inside.
Is it ever good for schemas to be broken? Like, are some schemas untrue? Oh, a lot of schemas are untrue.
Okay, so it's not like it's not schemas aren't truth by themselves. No, not at all.
Okay. They can be. Right. If you grew up in a, let's say, a Christian home, if you went to a Bible-believing church, if you had godly mentors in your life, Christ-like people in your life, yes, of course, you're going to have godly schemas. Things like, man, God will work all things together for good.
Schemas like, Uh God's grace. is available to you The harder things get, the more grace is available to you. When sin abounds, grace abounds much more.
So you don't have to, if you mess up, if you sin, or if you are a victim of sin, does not mean that you're just going to sink and this is it, your life is over. No, God pours His grace upon you. The tone in the flesh Is not God is angry with you or hates you or not answering your prayers. But like Paul says, you know, I even glory in my weaknesses.
so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. When I'm weak, then I'm strong. His grace is sufficient for me. That's a schema.
So. Yes, there are schemas, there are rock, solid, biblical, godly, Christ-filled, spirit-filled truths. But then there are also schemas like, you know, I'm getting what I deserve. Mm-hmm.
Now there there is some truth to it The Bible talks about you reap what you sow. But that's not the whole truth. Right. I think that's hard for a lot of people to come to terms with, is this thing that. That a lot of us really hold true is that the suffering I'm going through, on some level, I deserve it.
It sort of becomes, I deserve all of this.
Well, even that picture of a schema as a window, I mean, that can lead into that conversation of schemas being faulty, too, because you could have a window that's cloudy. You can have a window where the glass is warped or distorted, and it changes your view. It gives you a wrong perspective of what is real in the world outside. Absolutely. And so when.
Tragedy strikes, maybe sometimes it's a blessing in disguise because some of those faulty schemas are being broken so that God can rebuild the right schema in your life. Yeah, so. I don't, you know, I go along with Paul when I say I glory. In distresses, I glory in weaknesses, I glory in. In the tribulations of life so that The power of Christ may rest upon me.
Right, right. This is where God Himself rebuilds. a better schema.
Now you look at that glass window And there's a story behind it. You know, previously. They were just windows. But now you can tell which window has been. Has a story, and which ones are still the old ones?
And they may be true ones, but they're the old ones, but the new ones you just have. A special Story with it. Right. So, in your sermon series on the book of Job, we've been looking at some of these schemas, and this is the first one that we looked at. And I really love that you started with this one because I think this one is so, at least for me, I think this one is so personal that so many people can relate to.
And I don't know, is this something that Job struggled with? You know, what I'm doing now. I deserve this because he because he said pretty much the opposite. He said, Look, I haven't done anything wrong. You know what I mean?
But his friends said the opposite. Like, no, you've you've done something. You must have done something to do that. Yeah, yeah. But it's this and it's kind of interesting because it's a schema that's kind of being put onto him rather than a schema that he has and has to wrestle with.
Absolutely. The only schema that Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar could tell Job was God's divine retributive justice. God's defined retributive justice, or God's retributive justice, simply means you are reaping what you've sowed. God is dealing with you for what you've done.
So Once Job speaks in chapter three, now this is where. the narrative section stops, And the poetry begins because now after Seven days and seven nights of silence, Job now begins to speak. And what he says is like very depressing. Yeah, my man is hard up. He is cursing the day he was born.
He wishes. He could die. He wishes he was never born. I mean, just all kinds of very negative thoughts. Yeah, we did a whole, we did a couple episodes on the poetry of Job and just like how he fixated on his birthday so hard.
I wish I was dead. I wish the day that I was born was cursed. I wish the day that I was born had never come to be. I wish tentacles from the depths itself would just squeeze the life out of the day I was born. I'm like, God, I'll leave this dude.
Not just, I wish that I could die. It's so beyond that. I wish that I had never existed. But this idea that God's retributive justice, I think it's interesting because it's not that it's an outright lie, right? Like there's some truth to it.
Yes.
But I guess, is it one of those things where the enemy takes it and twists it so that we believe that that's the whole truth? Right. And that's where the problem comes in because the enemy will often take. In principle of truth But then he will twist it. And so you're like, man, that sounds like the truth.
But then it has a lot of lies in it. It has a lot of falsehood in it.
So. When When the dialogue cycles begin, so as you know, there are three dialogue cycles. The first one begins in chapter 4, the second in 15, the third one is in 22, and then there's the Eliphaz. or Ella Hugh dialogues, which is just one way. And then the final is a Yahweh-Job-Yahweh-Job dialogues.
Right. And then the end with a. Closing narrative. But the first dialogue cycle begins with Eliphaz, which is in chapter four. This is where the dialogues begin in earnest, where the friends begin to counsel Job.
Eliphaz begins with with this statement. This is in Job chapter 4 verse 7. He says, remember now. whoever perished being innocent. I mean, he's Actually being sarcastic.
Right. Job, do you know someone? who perished but they were innocent? What he's saying is, Job, innocent people don't suffer. I don't know.
Where this guy had his head in the sand. Innocent people suffer all the time. Of course, they do. There's one sitting right in front of you. But this is a ground level schema that we all.
Uh claim when bad things happen. Man, I didn't do anything wrong. Why is this happening to me? You hear people utter this in phrases like, I can't believe in like, why would bad things happen to good people? Right, right.
I mean, this is a common thing, a common objection to Christianity, objection to God. God can't allow bad things to happen to good people. Or. I must have done something wrong. That's why this is happening to me.
I deserve this. It's kind of funny, too, because it's like that surface-level denial. If I didn't do anything, we often go back to that.
Sort of half-truth of, well, if I look deep down, I know that I did something. Yeah, there's surely there's something I know that I did do something. It's kind of funny because that surface-level denial sometimes is right. Yeah. And you never think about that.
So he goes on and says that.
So let's talk about the divine retributive justice.
Okay. Kinds and Kinds. This is Father and Son. They wrote a book called Wrestling with God. That's kind of cute.
Kinds and Kinds. I like that. Yeah, I mean, Kynes is Will Kynes and Bill Kynes, I think that's what it is. Very nice. Kinds and Bill Kinds.
That's pretty cool. Shout out to Will and Bill Kinds. Yeah, Father and Son. But they wrote this book called Wrestling with God. And In this book, they talk about that there is something called God's retributive justice.
Deuteronomy chapter 30, verse 15 talks about. God's saying to his people, Look, I have set before you life and good, death and evil. Choose. Choose. If you choose the wrong thing, you're gonna have Death and evil.
If you choose the right things, you will have life and good.
So there you have. retributive justice. In Proverbs chapter 3, Solomon is talking to his son Rehoboam. He says, My son, do not forget my law, but let your heart keep my commandments, for length of days and long life and peace they will add to you.
So What if you don't keep my commands? What if you forget my law? You'll have a short life. You will not have peace. Right.
You would have a lot of turmoil. Yeah. So yes, there is something called Retributive justice. And then Galatians chapter 6 says it as clear as day: do not be deceived. God is not mocked.
For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. It's right there, Black. It's pretty plain. It's not a falsehood. There's definitely some truth to it.
So. Positively speaking, when you do things God's way, there are blessings. Turning away from sin and sinful people can protect us from many harms and open us to God's blessing. Psalm 1 talks about blessed is the man who doesn't stand by the seat, stand in the way of scoffers, sit by the scornful, and all that. But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and he meditates on it day and night.
He will be like a tree planted by it. River like water.
So Yeah. It is true. Yeah, if you sow godly things, you're going to have a godly heart. That's right. Yeah, I love that.
And when you break God's laws and principles, there are consequences. Makes sense. Yeah, makes sense. Having said that, there's more to God's work in us than just his retributive justice. Is it fair to say for this schema that it's not false?
It's just reductionist? Yeah, simplistic is the right word because that's where uh you know you take something that has so much so many more layers to it and say, no, this is it. This is it, that's it, that's all there is to it. And there's more to that. For example, sometimes our suffering is to demonstrate to the watching world how a man or a woman of God responds.
To trials. Right. So, suffering is happening in you to help someone. Learn. How to trust God, how to persevere.
How to keep moving forward, even when you don't see a thing.
Well, the story of Job ought to be enough for the believer to believe that, right? Because the Bible itself says that he's done nothing wrong.
So we have to believe that Job didn't deserve that suffering because of things that he had done. What a powerful truth to consider: that the suffering that you're going through might be so that someone else can watch your response. Might be so that you, in your suffering and in your response to that suffering, in your faithfulness through that difficult season, can be an encouragement to someone else. Absolutely. Sometimes it is to demonstrate God's glory before a watching world.
So, if someone's listening to this, I'm sure that's the thing. It's like, how is my suffering going to reveal God's glory? Yeah. I mean, think about in John chapter 9, Jesus was passing by, he saw a man who was born blind from birth. Right?
I mean, your heart should go out to them. But the disciples always amazed me. I mean, they were an interesting bunch. They're like, I bet the guy even heard them say that. Jesus, who sinned?
Him or his parents? It's like a little kid. He's blind, not deaf. You ever take your little kids out and they say something really offensive, like right behind someone's face? Like, mommy, look at him.
He's ugly. Like, hey. Mommy, what's wrong with that guy? Oh, geez. That guy's old.
Quiet, kid. We'll talk about it later.
So, I mean, they said that right in front of this guy. Because he's blind, he also can't hear. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I know, isn't that crazy? And Jesus said, neither this man nor his parents sin, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.
So they're pretty sold into this schema as well. Yeah, I mean, and kind of immature. Yeah. Saying that poor brother, poor guy. That's probably one of the best words I've heard to describe the disciples is they're just immature.
Yeah. Yeah. Not they were, they weren't childish, but they were just immature in their understanding of faith and of God and his working and how life plays out. This is a little bit of a tangent, but one of the coolest things to me is to read Peter as like, like to see Peter in the gospels where he's immature in his faith and he's like just learned to follow Jesus and then read the book of 1 Peter. Yeah.
Like you want to see somebody grow in the Lord. That's a really cool, that's a really cool thing. Jesus said, you know, he said, I must work the works of him who sent me while it is day. The night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
I mean, so.
So Jesus used that opportunity instead of saying, shh. you know Can you not He's not deaf. He can hear you. He's blind. He can hear you all right.
Or be like, or just fuss at them about something else and say, well, you are also. sinfully blind from birth. None of that. Jesus uses that as an opportunity to demonstrate his glory, spits on the ground, makes kind of like clay with his saliva and then puts it on that man's eyes. and sends him away.
There are many, many powerful truths there. But one of them was Think about how God made Adam. from the dust of the earth.
So in a sense, he was saying I'm the same one. Who made life out of the dirt? Yeah. So watch this. And he puts I.
Like something like an eye on top of this man's eye, and he goes, Go wash it. And he washes like, I can see. Wow. That's really awesome. Restoring sight, but bringing life where there was death.
And then a deeper lesson of opening the eyes of. Us who are blind in our sins.
So, think about the fact that, like, to have this story that has bolstered millions and millions of people's faith over the years, that guy had to be blind for his whole life. Yeah, for his whole life, so that he could be forever, forever, in a sense, immortalized. Of course, he's in the presence of God now. Right. But in Scripture he's forever remembered as a man who was born blind from birth.
to whom the disciples insulted horribly. And But God used him. Because I mean, I remember as a little kid reading that story and said, wow, Jesus spitting on the ground and taking that. Little mud pie thing and going on his eye. It really does.
It really does help you. Like, I'm thinking about it right now, and I'm struggling to put it in the words, but it helps you see God better. Where it's like, if I were God, I would certainly, I would be like, Yes, it's sad that this one man has to spend 60, 70 years blind, but think about the millions of people who will get saved thanks to this passage of Scripture. I would say billions. Yes, I would say billions.
Billions. This story has been there for 2,000 years. Think about all the Christians of the ages, Christians in the Middle East, in you know. that for a century and then spreading across Egypt and and Syria and Rome and India and and and Towards the north, towards the Black Sea. Think about that from century after century into England and then India.
I mean, think about it. It's been the billions. Yeah, I don't think any rational person would look back and say it wasn't worth it that that man had to be blind for. Like, I'm sure looking down from heaven, he said. That's so hard on him for those years of his life.
Yeah. Let's look at the alternative. What if someone's saying, How is God going to use my suffering, though? I'm not blind from birth and Jesus isn't walking around performing miracles in my life. How is my suffering going to help billions of people in the future?
Well, I can just tell you, as a pastor, there are things that I go through and have gone through in my life. I'll be honest, in the moment it's like, God, if you can only get that thing out of my life. I can do so much better. I can study better. I can preach better.
I can help people better. I can I can do so much more if you just remove that thorn. from my flesh And that brings us to the Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians chapter 12. It says, lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me. And so God did this.
so that Paul would not become arrogant. God also did this so that Paul could experience this torn in the flesh. that all of us experience throughout life. Or At different points in life. Mm-hmm.
And so Paul pleaded with the Lord that he would remove this thorn. And The response The reply that came back was, My grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. And then Paul, as we said a few moments ago, he says, Therefore, most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore, I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, and needs and persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
So I know I might be beating a dead horse here, but think about the impact of that verse too, and how many billions of people that verse has impacted, and how we wouldn't have that verse if Paul had said, Whatever this thorn is, I know I've sinned and I deserve it. And that was like his mindset. That verse wouldn't exist. You wouldn't have it. And as a pastor.
When I go through struggles, of course, it keeps me humble, but it also. Makes my preaching, my understanding of the scriptures, my understanding of people, my understanding of the work of God. it becomes very real. And that's Not fun, I'll be honest with you. None of those thorns are fun.
I wish I could just remove them, pluck them out. But They are necessary. They are necessary for God to work in this world.
So going back to Retributive justice? You're reaping what you sowed. Yeah, there's some truth in it. But it's not the whole truth. There's so much more that's happening.
and primarily I would say what is happening is God is using our pain to Not only bring glory to his name, but also to pour his grace upon us, but also. To share the truth, the gospel with someone else. Amen.
So there's so many levels of things that are happening. Yeah. Through one person's suffering. There's listeners and viewers at home right now that I mean, I believe that this is causing them to see their situation with new eyes, with renewed purpose, renewed confidence that God is using this for good. What advice would you give them?
In helping them see God in their suffering, and helping them see what good could be wrought from what they're dealing with. First and foremost, just know that your pain is real. Don't let anybody minimize it. Don't let anybody gloss over it. Don't try to be like, ah, it's not a big deal, man.
There are people who are going through worse than I am. No, if it's a suffering, it's a suffering. Mm-hmm.
And if it's your suffering, then that's your suffering.
So, don't try to minimize it, don't try to downplay it. Instead, Pray. I mean, that's what we're doing, right? That's right. Yeah.
Yeah. Right now, we're in the middle, like as we're recording this, we're in the middle of our 24-hour prayer vigil. You know, it's actually, you're listening to this on a Wednesday morning. Right now, it's Friday at 11 p.m. You know, there's people here praying right now in our church and will be for the next 24 hours.
You know, we believe in prayer, and it's not just prayer like we're praying to get what we want or God take the suffering away. But because the whole church has been going through this series on the book of Job, we've been hearing about these schemas for the past few weeks. I think genuinely there's a lot of people right here tonight who are praying with new prayers, new thoughts. Absolutely. And that's one of the things I love about Clearview Church.
I love about your preaching. And I love just learning more about the Lord. It's because you're unlocking parts of, it's kind of like we talked about this, like when you learn a language, you're unlocking different parts of your brain. I genuinely believe you're unlocking different parts of your soul and your heart when you learn more about these doctrines. And it becomes very real.
Yeah, that's right. And as you pray and say, God, help me, then God begins to use you to help other people, to draw them closer to Christ. Not just help in the sense of, like, hey, I understand. Yeah, that's great. But more than that, turn to God.
Find His grace. Look to Christ. He is sufficient for all things. And so that's what God does with our pain. Yeah.
And. You know, if you're thinking that This feels like too deep a conversation, too philosophical. It's going over my head. This isn't applicable to me. Just know there's people in this building right now who are praying.
Some of these guys are. They're not theologians. They're farmers. They're business owners. They are our police officers.
They're normal, average people. But their understanding of the book of Job and of the gospel has been transformed by conversations just like this. And our heart is that this show would help you do that as well.
So in our time, we've got a few minutes left, Dr. Shah. I think it would be special for our viewers, our listeners at home, if you would just sort of on the air, lead them in that prayer as we're closing. Help them to see, you know, God's plan in their suffering and how it's meant for more than just I'm getting what I deserve. You know, this is God's punishment toward me.
No, maybe there's a deeper picture that's happening and maybe there's something profound that God wants to teach them. Absolutely. Let's pray.
Okay. Father, we come before you today. And God, it is Sad, it's tragic, it's painful to watch people suffer. uh whether the suffering is a is a pain A physical pain.
Sometimes that suffering could be emotional hurts. Rejection. A breakdown of a relationship uh ev ev evil words that ring in our hearts and our minds that were said to us. Or words that have come back to us. pain as in mental anguish.
depression, discouragement, doubts, Or even spiritual struggles where we find ourselves stuck on some.
some some issue that we can't seem to find resolution. God, all these things. Are not just us paying for something we've done in the past. There's so much more to it.
So, God, I pray that your people Who are listening, who are watching?
Well not just blame themselves. But they will really seek you and Lord, like the Apostle Paul, after they have pleaded those three times, they will. Look to you for grace. knowing that your strength is made perfect in weakness. God, I pray that you would lift up those broken hearts, lift up those broken spirits, and God, just through your Holy Spirit, Strengthen them.
Fill their hearts with hope, knowing that there is a better day coming. Fill their hearts with faith, knowing that you will work everything together for good. And fill their hearts with love, knowing, God, that you are with them and that you love them, and through them, you want to love the rest of the world. Around them for Christ.
So, God be. I pray for your healing, for your comfort, for your strength in many, many of our listeners today. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Guys, make sure you join us next time. Same time, same place. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And if it was your first time listening to us today, we just want to let you know we love you.
We're glad that you're here. God brought you here for a reason. We want to talk to you again tomorrow. Don't forget, you can always support us financially as well at Abhidhansha.com forward slash gifts. That's right.
One quick announcement before we leave. Big, big apologetics conference is coming to Clearview Church March 28th. Lots of people are flying in from all over the country. We want to make sure that you are there, you, your church family, anybody that you want to bring. Tickets are on sale right now.
You can find a link to register in the description. And if you use the promo code today, T-O-D-A-Y, when you check out, you're going to get 20% off your purchase.
So thank you. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
