All you guys have talked about this week is politics and world news. I listened to this show because I want to hear about Christianity.
Well, brother, we got something for you today. All this and more coming up right now on the Clear V Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.
I'm John Galantis. Welcome to another great episode of Clearview Today, right here in our studio with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. If you're listening for the very first time today, we want to welcome you and let you know that Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show, Dr.
Shah. Welcome. Good to be here. Welcome to you too. Amen.
Amen. Good to see you. It's going to be a great conversation, and we love having conversations with you, our listening audience, our Clearview Today Show family. And one of the reasons that we can do that is because of faithful donors, faithful givers, just like you. That's right.
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That's right. Before we dive into today's conversation, I feel like we should address the awkward elephant in the room.
Okay, listen. There's a big elephant in here, and we've just been ignoring it. All the people online who disagree with what we're saying have been ignoring it.
So let's just get it out of the way right now. We're going to reveal for the first time on the air. We're Christians. What? Believe it or not.
This is brand new information. Believe it or not, we, all three of us in this room, are evangelical Christians.
So everything that we talk about on mic and off mic is going to be filtered through the lens of Christianity. And it's at a point in my life where I really don't know how to not do that. You know what I'm saying? When you, I mean, when you come to Christ and you immerse yourself in any religion, it's going to affect the way that you see the world. And I'm getting to the point now, and Dr.
Shah, let me know what you think about this. I'm getting to the point now where there's really not any aspect of American society that is untouched by religious influence, specifically Christianity. Oh, absolutely. You know, this nation was founded upon Judeo-Christian values. And As long as we have that as our foundation, we'll be okay.
But when we don't have that foundation, that's why our nation right now. In some areas, it's in chaos where people are saying and doing things that are so contrary to biblical values. Yes, you can stand up for your rights. Yes, you can stand up for the rights of others. But what's happening in America today?
Is very different. It's ugly, it's hateful, it's just wrong. And you cannot equate that to, well, I'm just fighting for. Other people. No, what you're doing is very hateful, violent, and it does not line up with Christian values.
That's right. That's right. You know, it's funny because a lot of people will listen to the show, especially the episodes that we've been doing this week. And genuinely, we don't set out to do like political episodes or what do you got, current event episodes. This has just been a crazy couple of weeks in the world.
Well, here's the thing: it's called a worldview for a reason. There you go. I mean, your religion, your upbringing, your belief system, it's going to impact the way that you see the world, including what's happening right now in the world, including current events.
So for us to not talk about these things is really doing a disservice to our listening audience. Right. Dr. Show, what would you say to, and I know we usually say this for the end of the show, but what would you say to Christians, especially Christians out there who are listening to this, who are like, I thought y'all just talked about the Bible. I just wanted to hear about some doctrine.
I just want to hear about how to preach. And you will. And you will. We are just right now answering some of the questions people are asking, asking about. Mm-hmm.
what to do with, um, uh, let's say, with what happened in Minneapolis last Sunday? Or w it you know, why are w what to do about this this s situation prior to this, where this lady try to run over an ICE officer and he fought and and he fired back. And she died. You know, how do you see that?
So, all we're trying to answer these questions. Greenland, that's big in the news. I mean, who imagined that 2026? Greenland would be talked about more than anything else. I really, I really didn't see it coming.
Not on my 2026 being a little bit more. Yeah, most people didn't even know where Greenland is. Starting the year off with a question mark. Yeah. Greenland?
Greenland? But now we're talking about Greenland. And a lot of our listeners and our viewers are asking questions as to how to see this, these different issues and crises from a biblical perspective. Hence, we're answering them. Right.
That's exactly right. You know, a lot of times, I didn't know this before we talked that a lot of United States presidents have had Greenland on the radar, but we just don't have access. We didn't have access back then to the amount of information. And with all this information coming in, you're going to filter it through your Christian worldview. And there are a lot of times where you just have question marks.
You're like, what should I think about this? Right. Yeah. That's why we're answering these things. And one of the things I Shared with our team this morning was the Burge report that came out.
I mean, and you know, he's been writing for quite some time. He's an American political scientist. He will do his research and do polls and then sort of draw some overarching conclusions based on that. And the one that came out December 29th. Was something about what the 2024 election revealed about religion in America.
2024 election, presidential election. What does that say about religion in America? Right. And some of the things. I already knew because we are seeing it so in our face right now in our culture.
But some things were sort of shocking. Right. But confirming, like, yes, we knew that. Yeah. And one of the things, and we're going to maybe back up and look at it, but let me go ahead and get to the conclusion.
is the great divide between Democrats and Republicans.
Okay, those who identify as Democrats, those who identify as Republicans in their political views. One of the greatest divide or the growing divide has been regarding church attendance. That's right. Where are they when it comes to church yeah And it's It it's crazy. And and it was not like a oh my goodness, that's a shock.
No. Yeah, I can see that. Right. I can definitely see that.
Now, I did not see that prior to this report coming out in the sense of. Wow, look at how much has been growing. But I already knew. You see that in the rhetoric of the left. You see that in the hateful comments and the videos that are being posted.
They are not coming from a Judeo-Christian value perspective. Not at all. It seems like today, largely, and this is pending with broad strokes, that. Christianity is religion, particularly Christianity, is Republican. That belongs to the right.
And then the Democratic Party is the party of the nuns. Like no, no religious affiliation whatsoever. And we can sort of see that. I think everyone in America can feel that out. I think why I appreciated Dr.
Sha, you sending this article is because when you look at the numbers, you realize that it's much deeper and it's much wider of a gap than we think. Ryan Burch calls it the God gap. the God gap because uh it's obvious that In the Democrat Party, God is not a priority.
Now, I'm not saying every Democrat out there is a lost person. I know some of you may want to say that. I get it. I get it. Because some of the things they stand for are very contrary to biblical values.
The life of the unborn. Is a big one. Or the gender issues that are going on in our culture. God made us male and female. And where the Democrat Party right now stands.
It's not lining up with biblical That's right.
So Yes. There is a big distinction between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to. Um Christian values, but this research really opens your eyes of how it has been growing. Over the past Three, four decades. Yeah.
Yeah. There was a really cool chart that showed like the religious attendance of Republicans. And if you look at it, it's really interesting because in 2008 and 2012, when it was like Obama, McCain, all that stuff, you do start to see a dip. But then 2016. President Trump comes on the scene, right, for the very first time.
And if you look at the number of people who attend weekly, if you're watching the video podcast, then you'll see it right on your screen. Right. It doesn't move. Right. There's no decrease in the in the uh the weekly religious attendance of Republicans.
Zero decrease over. What is that? For eight years. Right. Which means there's definitely something to that.
Because all across the board, on other areas of religious attendance or whatever, before President Trump came on the scene, there were slight decreases. Once he shows up on 2016 ballot, there is no decrease in religious attendance. Because I think as people are realizing that this president stands on Christian values.
Now, I know that immediately I can see people like, oh my goodness, how dare you say that? Have you seen what ICE is doing? I hear you. But no nation can function without borders. Right.
We cannot live in this open border society where, I mean, you know, all those Scandinavians who talk about, you know, you should do that. Why don't you try it? Yeah. You don't do it. That's my question.
Is there an archetype anywhere of a nation that says, hey, I'm just going to abolish borders? And did it work for that nation? None. No. It doesn't exist.
And the very people who shout the loudest about these things are the very ones who will keep people out. Right. Let's go back to the Syrian crisis, okay? You know, back, I think it was in the. 2010, uh, right after the Arab Spring and all that, and the Syrian crisis, lots and lots of Syrians uh were moving north and head going towards Greece and and through Greece headed towards Germany and other places.
Oh my goodness, those people didn't want them. And I get it. What I'm trying to get at here is When Europe talks about America is prejudiced and America is racist, and I see some of these academics that I know very well saying these things. You need to look in your mirror. You need to look at your own country's.
Um Political stances. You are open you're not open border. You don't want any of those people there. And I get it. The reason I bring up the border issue and all this just to say if you think that that is not a Christian value to protect our borders or to deport people who are here illegally, then that's a whole different discussion.
We can have that discussion, but you cannot say it's more Christian to just let anybody and everybody come in. That does not decide Christianity. That's right. Couldn't you make the case that it's more Christian to have a government set up where people who want to be a part of that country, there's a process for them to do so? Absolutely.
I mean, that's the process I used when I came to America. Right. I remember back in 1990, um w you know, when my dad was pretty sure that I needed to go to America and study and go to a Christian college, which was our deno denominational college. It was uh run by and it still is run by the Christian Missionary Alliance. It's open to everybody, but it's it's d i you know, just like Colleges today have that denominational loyalty, like Methodist or Church of Christ or Nazarene or whatever, or Baptist.
Mm-hmm. Toco Falls College was Christian and Missionary Alliance. I grew up Christian and Missionary Alliance, so dad wanted me to go to that college. and study for a couple of years. But I remember when that process began in nineteen ninety.
And it was like Uh You know, and I was like sixteen. Like, okay, what do I need to do?
Well, you need to do this, and you fill this out. We got to get your pictures done, we got to do this.
Now we have to pay this much money and on and on and on. I mean, I was like, oh my goodness. This is so much trouble. And then having to go and get in line and and get my visa. And then now begins the process of packing things and leaving my country and coming here.
And then over the years when I decided to change my citizenship, we had to pay more money. I mean, thousands of dollars. To be able to apply for it and then had to take a test. several trips to Charlotte and all that that happened. And then finally, the day came when I became an American citizen.
I mean, it was a process. But what the last administration did was it's like That's gone. Yeah. Get all that. Do whatever you want to do.
And it's not like the poor huddled masses came in. Bad people came in. Lots and lots of bad people came in. I know right now the rhetoric is. Show me the bad people.
Who are the bad people? How many bad people? You know, the president says bad people. Where are they?
Well When you remove the bad people And there are other people around them who have broken the same law. It's part of. It's the unfortunate truth. Unfortunate truth. Also, you can look at Border Patrol reports and see those numbers of people who have come in who are known gotaways and who have been on watch lists for terrorist organizations.
That's right. You can have all that information that's accessible. And by the way, President Obama did the same thing. Bill Clinton did the same thing.
So, you cannot say that immigration enforcement is so evil and so contrary to Christian values. Not true. I think I mentioned this yesterday, but Tom Holman, who's the head of this big movement of deportations right now, really, he's the head of ICE, right? He's the head of like all the Borders Arch. Borders are right.
The same people who are calling for his head right now don't remember when Obama hung a medal around his neck for doing what he did. And it's a trending image right now. People are really upset about it. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah, yeah.
Ignorance is bliss. That's right. But if you go back to Bird's report, there's also the religious attendance of Democrats. Mm-hmm. The whole point of our conversation is that what you believe does matter.
your faith does impact. Your vote, and what we have seen, and John mentioned earlier, is that the trend was sort of going down until President Trump came to office, and now it's sort of steady. Very steady, it's not where it needs to be. I would love to see. Every Republican.
Walking with Jesus, attending church. Loving and sharing the gospel to the community, but it's not there. But at least it's steady. How about the religious attendance of Democrats? Let's look at it.
In 2008, it was 24%. 2012. 29% 2016. Thirty-one percent to twenty twenty. Thirty-eight per cent.
and 2024. Is 44%. Those are the people who never attend. Yeah, that's never.
So it's increasing. That's not just seldom go. I seldom go. That's never go.
So from 2008 to right now, It is doubled. The people who say I never, ever, ever attend. is is more than it's almost half It's almost half Democrats. Yeah, I mean. 44% is right there.
And then the rest of them you see seldom or yearly or monthly or weekly. I mean, yeah, I mean, we see it right here. It's so tragic. Yeah. Yeah.
And it's the unfortunate truth that there is a correlation here. There is a definite, definite dividing line between Republicans and Democrats. And as much as people want to put it on race or culture or class, really, we're seeing the biggest division is among their religion. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I mean, this is that's why I appreciate the Burroughs report because. It's helping us um understand why people vote the way they do? And why they Those who Hate President Trump, why they hate him. They're not ultimately hating just a person. And I know right now people are going to be, oh my goodness, how dare you say that?
I think they're hating Christian values. Christian values. What do these numbers mean for us as churchgoers, as people who are thinking about ministry, maybe people who are listening at home, who are either on staff at a church or who are lay leaders in their church? What do these numbers mean for us in the future of the church in America? I would say.
Uh As a pastor, It concerns me. Because people who are Republican. And I've said that from the pulpit many times, who are conservative And yet they are not following Jesus.
So that as I I am optimistic about this to say see that the numbers are steady and and and Republicans are voting Christian values. Great, praise God. But as a pastor, I'm thinking it should be 100%. Right. It should be all the way.
People are attending and serving God. If we who are conservatives, if we who are voting Christian values, if we ourselves are not. Consistently following Jesus and supporting the body of Christ. Imagine how dark is the darkness. Oh yeah.
Oh yeah. What do you think about the, like, because when we say that people who are religious among the Democrats, that's a big umbrella of a term, right? What does it mean to be religious? Like, are there Muslims who are in Trump's favor? Are there Jewish people who are in Trump's favor?
Like, what is the breakdown here?
Well, here, I think it's talking about in the Burrs report, Christianity is the religion that they're talking about. But as to other Religions, you know, here it says a GOP vote is 80% Christian and 17% non-religious. The Democratic vote is 48% Christian and 45% non-religious.
So I guess in the GOP vote, the 17% non-religious may be Non-Christian, is what they imply. Yeah, yeah. I don't know for sure.
So if that is the case then Seventeen percent are either coming from other religions, Hindus, Muslims, whatever, Buddhists. Are they coming from no religion? Secular.
So what do you think about that implication that evangelicals are so incredibly important? to Republican values and to like like for the GOP come election day. Evangelicals are extremely important. What is it that relates Christian? Evangelical values with Conservative with Republican Party.
I think a lot. And those politicians or leaders who ignore that truth, they do it to their own peril. Because Under Christian values come things like patriotism. Not the patriotism like Nazi Germany that are going to support Hitler and and yeah. The church failed terribly at the time.
Not the whole church, but the established church. Right. Because they did not stand up to Hitler. And the ones who did were, of course, killed. But Here in America, that's not what's happening.
So, you cannot put everything in one basket and say, see, religion in Nazi Germany, religion in America is one and the same, one and the same. No, it's not one and the same. They're standing for two very different values. In America, when we talk about Christian values, not just religious, but Christian values, we're talking about the life of the unborn. That's not what Hitler was fighting for.
When we're talking about Christian values, at least people like me who are saying, Hey, listen. Anti-Semitism is evil, it's sinful, it's wrong, it needs to be stopped. Hitler wanted to annihilate All the Jewish people.
So you cannot say that these are one and the same. I love my country. I love America. This is a country that I've adopted. And the country that has given me so much.
To stand for this country, to protect this country, to see that the country has a future That lines up with my biblical value. You say, How can that be? How dare you say that? Because. If Christianity is no longer Um the the leading Uh fate.
Then We as Christians will not have the right to Practice Christianity. And to share the gospel with the lost world. That's right. It means our children, our grandchildren will be lost.
So, standing up for our nation, for our traditional values, enables and ensures. that Christianity will continue. that our children and our grandchildren will follow Jesus Christ.
So In that sense. When I say, yes, I'm standing for our nation. Yes, I believe in patriotism. Uh I am actually saying That we're going to see that Christianity continues for generations to come if Christ doesn't return.
So For me. Conservative values go hand in hand. with Christian values and principles.
Now let me also clarify, does that mean that every Christian or every so called conservative politician, they're all Jesus? No, they're not. They people make mistakes, people do evil things. Yeah. They don't automatically get to go to heaven just because they are Christian in name.
No. But at least we have an opportunity to Spread the gospel, spread the faith. I love the way that you've said it in the past, Dr. Sean. Jesus is not on the ballot.
He's not. If he was, everybody would vote. I promise you. 100%. Absolutely.
He would be the candidate, but he's not.
So we got to elect the candidate that's going to best represent biblical values and uphold those standards. I think it's a great conversation to have because I'm sure there are plenty of pastors out there, people who are listening to this, Christian leaders who are in the exact same boat with you. But I'm also sure there are those out there who say, you know what? Politics is evil, whether you're on the right or the left. I'm not getting involved in it.
I just want to preach Jesus and whatever happens to this world, come what may. And I can't think of a more irresponsible Position for a Christian leader to take. And I especially like Dr. Shah, this warning from someone like you who did grow up in the East and who saw firsthand what it looks like when Christians lose more and more and more and more freedom. And it may not always look like a brutal.
Overnight takeover.
Sometimes it's just whittling away at Christians' rights until they don't even recognize what they used to have. I agree. And I think it's really. It's really to America's detriment to not listen to someone who's seen that firsthand. Yeah.
You know, going back to the whole Nazi Germany example. Uh I see it more as Christians. If if today's Christians were there in Nazi Germany, they would have stood up to Hitler. Why? Because those are the things we're standing up against.
Right. Hitler wanted to kill the Jewish people. Hitler wanted to kill the Romani people. Hitler wanted to get rid of anybody with special needs because they didn't fit his prototype of the super race. Those are the people we stand for.
Those are the people we stand for. So don't say that all churches are same and the church no, no, no.
Now if and especially as scholars, you should be ashamed if you say those kind of things. I mean, I know your commentaries are wonderful, and I know your papers are great, and I know you are an amazing scholar, but the way you are approaching politics, It's horrible. How do you live with yourself? Right. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, Dr. Show, we've got about four minutes left before the show is done. Do you want to just give a word of wisdom, a word of encouragement to people who are listening and who still have hope for what's on the future for America? Absolutely. I would say educate yourself.
Don't listen to The news media, unless the news media is really trying to be objective, educate yourself and know. That God is still working in America. that we have been given another opportunity to To You know, see an awakening in our times. We prayed for awakening for a long time, right? Yes, we kept praying for revival.
When I first came to America, I I used to hear people say that in 1991, 92, it's like, we're praying for another awakening. I'm like, I know about the awakenings the First Great Awakening and the Second Great Awakening is American Christians looking for a third one?
Okay. All right, that's interesting. And then I I became more and more part of the American culture and then I became a pastor and all that.
Now I say it with a whole different meaning. It's like, yes, we need. and awakening we need revival in america yes And political issues that are going on in our world. in America right now. I thank God for President Trump because.
My rights and my freedoms are secure. That's right. So I can't preach. I mean, think about the church in St. Paul.
Uh that lady who walked in. And and And you know, let this this this uh um you know, march through the church. And try to disrupt the service and all that. Today And this is Should I say today or what day? Yeah, you can say today.
As of right now. This will go out tomorrow. Yeah, as of right now. I think about what happened in St. Paul, Minnesota, where This um This church, city's church, was having their worship service Sunday morning and groups of agitators came in.
and disrupted the service. And I mean, mistreated the people and called down the pastor and all of that stuff because there was a pastor who was an ICE worker or or. you know, head or whatever for that region. But just now I watched the news. That person who led that That group has been arrested.
Amen. Has been arrested. has been taken in handcuffs.
So You say, oh my man, that's free speech. No, not inside that church. It was not free speech. That's disruption. That's trying to take away our religious liberty, the very foundation for which our founding fathers stood on and fought for.
That's right, and the nations. History is full of Examples of fighting for religious freedom.
So, hey, there's still hope for America. Amen. Amen. I love it. Amen.
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