Some people feel like when they're suffering, calling on God is no use because not only is God aware of their suffering, he's the one causing it because of how angry he is with them. Refuting that schema and more coming up today in the 3D Today Show. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.
I'm John Galantis. Thank you so much for joining us here in the Clearview Today Studio. We've been having some great conversations. We're going to keep on having some great conversations today with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.
For those of you guys joining us for the first time, we want to let you know Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, good to see you, my friend. It's good to see you as well.
It's going to be a great day continuing conversation. Yesterday was a wonderful conversation, unpacking the schema that... Job kind of walks through. And we'll talk about a little bit more about that in a second. But I'm excited about the conversation today.
Yeah, it's going to be good. It's going to be good. Before we start, how's everybody's 2026 going so far? Excellent. And Dr.
Shah, how's your 2026? It's been going great. You know, February is going to have a lot of great things for us, particularly NRB 2026 coming up. Nashville, Tennessee. NRB stands for Nashville Ready, Boys.
That's right. Oh, that was pretty good. Nashville Ready, boys. I like that. I like that.
Dr. Shah, NRB is going to be big, big this year. What is one thing you're looking forward? Yeah. The relationships.
The people you meet and the relationships you build are just amazing. I mean, these are people who are. In the same Um Purpose, the same great commission, which is to take the gospel to the ends of the earth by radio, by television, by podcasting, blogging, whatever. That's why they're there. That's right.
And so to meet like-minded people and then to collaborate with them and to help them and be helped by them. This is the whole purpose. That's right. That's right. We've been to NRB 2024, we went, 2025.
We went. I think I said 2023, but I didn't earlier in another show. I meant 2024, 2025. 2026, we're going to be there in a different capacity because we're not only going as part of the Truth Network, we're also going as part of TBN Plus and Pray.com.
So, Dr. Sha, you're going to be all over the place. This is going to be a busy week. I'm excited. But, you know, the first time one of us went to NRB?
Was in 1994. I was going to say was much longer ago than 2022. You went with your college class, right? That's right. Well, because I was in broadcasting.
And so I was not signed up to go because I didn't have any money. And then one of the students who was signed up and had paid everything for some reason couldn't go.
So my professor asked me, He said, Would you like to go? I said, I would love to go. I just can't. is a no. Do you want to go?
I said, I do, but I don't have the money. Honestly, I don't have the money. I can't say yes to it. Yes or no. Everything is paid for, so and so cannot go because of something.
So you're in if you if you're ready. I was like, yeah. We're leaving tomorrow morning. Like, oh, he said, get ready. I'm going to pack.
Did you, did you have so? Did you have to go shopping? Because, like, I didn't realize this. I knew that people kind of dress nice, but I packed like a couple of casual things and then like one nice outfit. Got there and instantly.
I think I bought this shirt at NRB. You did? I remember that there and realized, like, oh, people are really dressed up for this. I had goofed up and I had to go shopping. Did you go home and pack like your nicest stuff?
I did have a suit. I did have some nice clothes. And because they told me, they said, you know, you may be interviewing. You know, we had a campus radio station. You may be doing some interviews with some of those famous pastors and celebrities.
I was like, oh, okay. All right.
So I took some clothes with me. And I remember riding there. With Mr. Welsh. Wow.
Mr. Welsh was our radio. Teacher. He drove you there? I mean, he was driving.
Oh, gotcha, gotcha.
So I rode with him from Tacoa, Georgia, all the way to Washington, D.C. Wow. And Mr. Welsh was. I hope you're not watching and listening, Mr.
Welsh. On one-on-one, he could not talk. I mean, he was. Awkward. He would just stumble over his words.
And you get him behind a radio state, a microphone. He came to life. Oh, my goodness. I mean, he would come to life, and you're like, crazy. How do you do that?
Are you the same person?
So he and I rode together in his truck. I remember that. And uh, just the two of you, just the two of us, that's fun. Shout out, Mr. Welsh, shout out, Mr.
Welsh. Hopefully, you're listening. Hey, hopefully, you're listening right now, and you're seeing that your student has gone on to become a powerhouse in Christian broadcasting. And so, NRB 2026, we're coming. If you're going to be in the area, we want you to come by, say hello, shake Dr.
Shaw's hand, meet, we want to meet you, hear more about your ministry, your story. Dr. Shaw, get a book sign. Yes, we're doing a book signing. Dr.
Shaw, you're doing some interviews with Pray.com, doing a bunch of interviews with Truth Network. And the other thing about NRB is you're doing a whole bunch of stuff that we don't even know about yet. It's just going to be circumstances that fall in our way. Excited about that.
So we're looking forward to meeting you guys.
So fun. Very excited about it and very excited about the future of this show and everything that we do in the show from producing the show, sharing the word online. It happens because of faithful listeners just like you.
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All right, Dr. Shah, this is getting silly. We are talking about Job, the book of Job. There are these different schemas, these different worldviews, these different, maybe deeply held core beliefs that we have. And we looked at one of them yesterday, which is everything that's bad that's happening to me on some level, I deserve it.
We wanted to look at another one today that I think I didn't realize was as common. As it is, until you preached on this, and a lot of people responded to this sermon. And that is that the reason I'm going through this suffering in my life is because God's angry with me. I didn't realize how commonly held of a belief that was. Yeah, people often feel that God is angry with me.
God is angry, and that's why I'm suffering. And that's not the whole truth. There is truth in it, but it's not the whole truth. Right. You shared yesterday, John, that the schema yesterday was deeply personal for you.
This one today that we're talking about is deeply personal for me because my brain defaults this direction more often than not.
Now, mentally, I can kind of wrap my head around. No, God loves me. I'm his child. He sent Jesus to die on the cross for me. I have a relationship with him.
But my brain defaults, like my first response is that schema, like, oh, God's mad at me. God's punishing me for something that I have done.
So I shared this the day that Dr. Sha preached this. We were all kind of talking after the sermon. And I shared this. And maybe, Dr.
Sha, you can kind of build on this as well. But I struggle with this one, not because it's difficult for me to imagine the truth in it. You know what I mean? It's difficult for me to imagine that God does get angry. Because when I saw people get angry, it was either like people like my dad or people like in public schools where it's like it always erupts in some sort of.
Physical altercation or yelling or a loss of control. And so I've grown up. And I think there's a lot of people out there like this. I've grown up associating anger with emotional weakness.
So God clearly can't be that. And then, one of the things that you've been doing in the sermon, Dr. Shah, is you've been saying that there is truth in a lot of these schemas, and God does get angry. But that's not the whole story, right? That's right.
That's right. So, you know, we get angry is because we are. You know. self-centered human beings and something we wanted didn't happen. We didn't get our way, so now we're angry.
Or we fly off the handle and we don't know when to stop, or some other sinful. hateful behavior. God gets angry but it's for a whole different reason. God is a God of wrath, and so. Um to think that God doesn't get angry and he's just this lovey You know, sweet old man who just wants to hug you and like a Santa Claus life.
That's not true. That's not true. There is something called God's divine wrath. God's divine wrath, God's anger, is a function of His holiness.
So, if you take away wrath, then you're taking away holiness. I know some people are saying, like, no, why? God can be holy. It doesn't have to be angry for Him to be holy. Yes, it does.
Because True holiness. I hate to even qualify that because holiness should be holiness. But Holiness, that is God's holiness, is such that it wants to destroy sin at the very sight, at the very existence of it. There is an urgency to it, there is an immediacy to it. It's not complacent, like, oh, one of these days I need to do something about sin.
Holiness of God, and I'm not talking about our holiness because we are hypocritical. But God's holiness. actively, immediately, overwhelmingly goes after that sin, and wants to completely annihilate it. There was a there was a There was a qualifier that I asked you about, and I think you, I think that's a perfect, perfect answer because I was thinking through, like, okay. But with my children, this wasn't a sermon I struggled with, but I definitely was like, I need to be walked there to this conclusion, because with my children, it's like, I can correct them without being angry.
And I love that answer that you gave is because there is a level of complacency where there's not this immediacy of, that has to get corrected right now.
So even if it's acceptable, not acceptable, there's a level of, eh, they're kids. They'll be all right. And so you are introducing complacency, and God cannot do that with sin.
Well, we are hypocritical people, right?
So it does come out. Like, let's say, what is very special to you? Very special to me. Right now, my Lego train set we've got.
Okay, what if you see one of your boys just runs over there and starts kicking it? Yeah, I'm going to be angry. Would you like say, well, you know, it is what it is? I don't know, maybe you will. Maybe you're like, Yeah, it's all right.
I'm meant for it to be all torn to pieces anyways. No, that would be angry at that. Let's say y you know, your your s autograph copy of um Spider-Man, yeah. Yeah. What if uh one of them starts tearing it just to tear it?
I don't even want to think about that at all. Yeah, there's going to be some immediacy there. It's signed by Stan Lee. Stan Lee. Yep.
Or you wouldn't like sit back and say Well, yeah, kids. It's a comic book, man. I don't really care. Yeah, no, that's. I don't know.
Find something else. What is it that will really get you moving? Yeah. And that's how God that's how God sees sin. That's how God feels sin.
Even a tiny little. You know, microbial sin, microscopic sin. I mean, it doesn't matter how small and tiny it is. That's. God takes it seriously.
You say, well, why? For God to back up on His holiness. Would be for God to cease being God. And if God ceases to being God, then. Just, I mean, the whole light's out is gone.
There's nothing left. That's right. God's anger is necessary. Right. Absolutely.
It's a direct outworking of his holiness. That's right. And I think we get that twisted, we get that mixed up, or it's uncomfortable for us to think about because oftentimes anger is so emotionally charged for us that it defaults to a place of unrighteousness or a place of wickedness where we're violent and we're vindictive and we strike out in wrath. And God gets angry, but not with a sinful component like we most often have. And most of our reasons for anger are not.
Like holiness, not some grand principle. Right, right. It's about like Spider-Man comic, which is very important to you, not to your kids. Or the Lego set, which is important to you, not to your kids.
So These are things that may not be a big deal to somebody, but holiness. It's the core attribute of God. I maybe should have. I maybe should have. I'm realizing now I maybe should have picked two more mature sounding examples.
The comic books and the Lego Hortworthwoods. Those are pretty cool things. Those are pretty cool things. The Lego Hogwarts set, but the sign comic of Spider-Man, but signed by Stan Lee, that's a rare thing. But I agree with you, though.
Those are things that are important to me, but they are not governing principles of the world, of life. Yeah, I mean, holiness, we think God is love. That's the primary attribute of God. No, it's the holiness of God. Great point.
Great point. That's number one.
Now comes. love or grace or justice or whatever, mercy. But holiness is where everything is. When the cherubs cry out around the throne of God in heaven, Isaiah talks about this: his holy, holy, holy. You find that in Revelation, holy, holy, holy.
Right. So that is. very important and Wrath comes out of that. If I can give a couple of verses, like God's own self-description in Ezekiel chapter 7, verse 9, it says, My eye will not spare. Nor will I have pity I will repay you according to your ways and your abominations Will be in your midst, then you shall know that I am the Lord who strikes.
That's kind of crazy. Yeah. That He's the God who strikes at us. And why? Because He doesn't use the word holiness there, but because he hates sin.
Yeah. He says, your abominations will be in the midst. Like, it's pretty clear. He gives us a great title: The Lord Who Strikes. Yeah.
Man. Yeah. I don't want to mess with him. Yeah. Exodus chapter 15, verse 7.
In the greatness of your excellence, you have overthrown those who rose against you. You sent forth your wrath, it consumed them like stubble. Wow. Yeah, that's a God who's angry. Yeah.
In Psalm 90, it's even. His anger is even to his own people. Psalm 90, verse 7: For we have been consumed by your anger, and by your wrath we are terrified. You have set our iniquities before you, our secret sins in the light of your countenance. This is God's own people talking.
Yeah, so like you have consumed us. You have burned us up. And that's true. That's not like a false schema that needs to be rectified. There's crucian.
To God's divine wrath. And then there's a wrath that's going to come in the final judgment. Isaiah talks about this in chapter 13, verse 9. Behold, the day of the Lord comes. cruel with both wrath and fierce anger.
to lay the land desolate, And he will destroy its sinners from it, going down to verse thirteen, therefore I will shake the heavens. and the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the Lord of hosts and in the day of his fierce anger.
Now, Dr. Shah. I don't have a lot of book learning and fantasy degrees, but one thing that you've overlooked is that all those verses are from the Old Testament.
Now, the New Testament, now, that's a whole different you actually think that the New Testament is a God of grace, don't you? Yeah, I do. The New Testament is mean old, God of wrath. He's mean. The New Testament is loving, cuddly Jesus.
Sounds like. Marcion, right?
Well, so let's go to the New Testament. Let's start with the first one, John 3:36. He who believes in the Son has everlasting life, and he who does not believe the Son Shall not see life. But the wrath of God abides on him. There it is.
That's wait. That's the same Jesus Meek and Mile. He said that? Yes. By the way, the funny thing was, just now, I don't know if y'all noticed.
Uh, but as we switch from old to new testament, y'all switch legs. I noticed I didn't notice both of us went like we did this exact same time. I didn't know that. Should I ring it up? Should I not?
But it's like, it's like, it's like we have to switch. It's a mental switch in posture because we were going to the New Testament. You know what? You're joking, but that might have been what happened. Like, we're switching gears now.
That's kind of cool. I'm going to look back on the video. Hey, that's why y'all need to be watching the video podcast. You see little Easter eggs like that. Also, John 3:36 is in the same chapter as for God so loved the world.
Yeah. That's the same chapter of the Bible.
So think about that. Like, Jesus does not see a distinction between God's love and his wrath. They're both symptoms of his holiness. Yeah. In Romans 1.18, it talks about For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
When truth is being suppressed, and it has been. For Several millennia. Truth has been suppressed regarding creation. Truth has been suppressed regarding the one true living triune God. Truth has been suppressed regarding Jesus being the only way, truth, and life.
Truth has been suppressed regarding sin. Regarding heaven and hell. Regarding Let's talk. You know Uh morality. regarding gender sexuality.
Truth has been suppressed. God's wrath is revealed from heaven. I don't know if this is reading too much into it, but I think that word revealed is kind of interesting because it's not, it's the wrath of God is revealed. You know what I'm saying? It's not that, oh, you did that, and that made God mad.
It's that he's now showing you this function of his holiness that just is. Does that make sense? I don't know if I'm reading too much into that, but. No, no, that's exactly true. And just like Isaiah 13, there's also Romans chapter 6 and verse 15.
That also talks about the wrath of God in the end of time. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the lamb. The lamb. Wait a minute. I thought Jesus was.
Make And miles, yeah. I thought he thought he was like a hippie with a little guitar, and he's just gonna sit on the mountain. He's got wrath, yeah, wrath of the lamb. And so, there's that, there's that promise that one day that that wrath is coming, right? But I love how you kind of.
shaped this in your sermon. Where that wrath Is not a guarantee for the Christian. In fact, it's the opposite. You're a guarantee to avoid that wrath if you're in Christ. Absolutely.
And this plays into the conversation on Job because that was one of the sort of schemas that was presented to Job.
Well, obviously, Job, God is angry with you. Yep. Well, actually. Job felt that God was angry with him. You know, he's like, he's angry with me.
His poison arrows are within me.
So, this is a false view that Job actually did hold. Yeah, this is something that his friends were saying that. But Job knew better regarding the sowing and reaping. But when they're talking about wrath, He himself felt like God is angry with me. I know I haven't done anything wrong, but he's angry with me.
Could it be because I'm something I'm not doing?
So, on his own, something I need to do. Job has to kind of expose this schema and sort of sort through it and walk through kind of what it means to have this schema broke down. Knowing Job, you know, having read the book of Job all the way to chapter 42. And seeing How he knows about the mediator, seeing how he knows about the redeemer. We know that Job was a believer.
We know that Job knew better that God was angry with him. He knew better than that. But in the moment he is feeling that way. I mean He's lost his Life, he's lost livelihood. I mean, he's lost all his livestock, his servants.
His children, their homes. And so Even though He knows better because he's a believer. He knows the mediator, the redeemer means he knows Jesus is coming. Yet, in the moment, he feels like God is angry with him.
So if you were to wake up, Job. From his sleeping said, Job, Do you really think God is angry with you? He would say, No, I don't. But I feel that way right now. But does not mean I That he is.
Right. But I think also Job In a sense, he's witnessing to his three friends. He's witnessing. to the readers throughout the ages. Because that's how we feel when we go through Suffering in life.
We feel like God is angry with us. Yeah. So again, the book of Job is amazing. I mean, this is 2026 now, right? Yeah.
People are still just beginning to understand. The many layers In the book of Job.
So here, You know, we overlook this. We run from chapter 2 all the way to chapter 42. But in between there's a lot of Truth that is being given to us. And one of them is Job himself is speaking to us and saying, Hey guys, when y'all go through a difficult time, it may feel like Feel like God is angry with you, but He's not.
Now don't misunderstand God is a God of anger. And anger is towards sin because he's holy. But. He's not angry with his children. Because later on, Job is going to say something very powerful that I want us to focus on.
Yeah, I want to hear it. Yeah. So it's found in Job chapter 9. And for a swan. Job answered and said Truly, I know it is so, but how can a man be righteous before God?
Verse thirty: If I wash myself with snow water and cleanse my hands with soap, yet you will plunge me into the pit. And my own clothes will abhor me. For he is not a man as I am. Talking about God. He's not a man as I am, that I may answer him.
and that we should go to court together, nor is there any mediator Mokhiak, mediator between us, who may lay his hand on us both. What Job is saying is for me to Finally. Have some semblance of peace. Because I feel right now God is angry with me. I need someone who can stand between me and God.
Because I can't approach him. He's God and I'm not. He'll destroy me. Is that what he's saying? Or he doesn't understand me.
Okay. Or I cannot reach him. There's got to be a go-between, someone who can play something on us both. He knows God is not angry with him, he knows that. Because he's a believer.
And by the way, the Bible tells us that again and again. Romans 5, it says, much more than having now been justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath. Through him. We are saved from wrath through Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 1:9, how you turn to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Right, right. That's the purpose of the cross. That's what he was dying to save us from. Yeah. 1 Thessalonians 5:9, for God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
So. Believers are not under God's wrath. Job knows that. But temporarily he feels like God is angry with me. I need someone to stand between me and God.
To speak to God from me because I don't feel like I can because I'm just scared. And I think one of the things, and I think you pointed this out when we first started the book of Job, is that Job having these thoughts, it still says that he didn't sin. He didn't sin with his lips. He didn't, like, even saying all these things that he knew to be untrue, God didn't charge him with sin for that. Right.
And I think it gives us a lot of freedom to say, hey, listen, if you're feeling these things, just know that you're not sinful. You're not betraying God. You're not going against him because it says even Job didn't sin. And it's okay to struggle through these things. It's okay because that's how you parse them out.
And that's how you break down false schemas and arrive to the truth that there is something much deeper happening. Yes, God does get angry, but there's something deeper happening when you're suffering, when you're going through trial, when you're going through heartache. We've got maybe. Three and a half minutes left in the show, but if there's someone listening right now and they haven't come to Jesus, there's no one standing between them and God's wrath, do you want to just give that invitation right now? Absolutely.
I will say to you that you and your own self cannot ever, ever reach God. You cannot get close to Him because He's holy. and holiness will destroy sin, and you are a sinner. You're born and sin, and then you sin. You are separated from God.
And so, what is needed is for you to be reconciled to God. To find forgiveness. From God But you cannot get that. But God sent His Son, to become like you God sent His Son, to die for you. to build that bridge between heaven and earth.
to build that bridge between us and God. and now we can climb on that bridge. And come to God. And the bridge is a sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross. Amen.
He died. In our behalf, He took our sins upon Himself, gave His life, died. was buried, but on the third day he rose again. Paid in full. Made us holy before God.
Now God declares us righteous through Christ. We are clothed in His righteousness. And we can come boldly to the throne of grace. Just know That you cannot create your own version of truth and say, Well, no, I don't believe all that stuff. I believe I can.
I'm a good person, or God's gonna say, Oh, you're okay, and come on into heaven. No, it doesn't work like that. You don't get to set the rules, God has set the rules. That's right. All you can do is come to Jesus.
Amen. Amen. Amen. So good. And so, so much hope for those who are struggling, for those who are trying to figure out, you know, is God angry with you?
Is God mad at me? At the end of the day, what you need to do is you need to come to Jesus. He's your mediator. He's the one who's going to be the go-between. He's the one who's going to help you navigate not just this situation, but every day for the rest of your life.
And if you're listening to this, chances are you know Jesus, but you know, on the off chance that there's that one out there who just found this. Maybe you're scrolling through the radio right now. Maybe a friend sent this to you who does know Jesus and wants you to as well. You can always email us at Abadanshad.com. You can email us at contact at clearviewtodayshow.com.
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