Here at the Clearview Today Show, we want to help you build trust in God's Word. It's the inspiring, inner, authoritative word of God. But it's not just enough to believe that once, it's a belief you have to maintain through your Christian life. How to do that and more coming up right now on the Clearview Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We are gearing up for the weekend.
It's going to be a great weekend here at Clearview Church. It's going to be a great weekend wherever you are at your church. And we're so blessed that we're able to talk to you guys throughout the week and help you prepare for whatever ministry opportunities God is putting in front of you. But before we get into any of that or any of today's discussion, we want to welcome our host, Dr. Abadan Shah.
For those of you guys joining us for the very first time on the radio or on the podcast, Dr. Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome. It's good to be here.
Good to see you. Excited to continue the conversation today, centering around Job, but also how it applies to our life. There's so much we can learn from this book. Oh, yeah. Hopefully, you know, you've been tracking with the past couple episodes.
If you haven't, we want to encourage you to visit your favorite podcasting platform and go back and listen to some of those episodes because it's going to help you not only know where we are in the conversation today, but help you in your overall understanding of Job. Job is helping us a lot in our church right now. God is doing some amazing things. We're going to talk about it way more in detail later on down the road when things kind of shift. Up, but lots of creative things are happening at Clearview Church because of the book of Job.
And so, our hope is that through doing all this, through you guys engaging with the text every single day, reading the book of Job or whatever other series, we just did a month, like two or three month-long series on the book of Romans. Our hope is that engaging the text. For you and alongside you is going to help you in your creative ministries, whatever you're doing at your church. That's right. Just a quick update and reminder for all of you: we are looking for potential sponsors for the Clearview Today Show.
We do have some sponsors already. That's right. We're very grateful for them. But if you would like to talk about sponsoring with your business, if you'd like to advertise here on the show and partner with us in making the gospel accessible to as many people as possible, write in and let us know at contact at clearviewtodayshow.com. We can talk about what that would look like.
And we're grateful to all of our sponsors for making it possible for us to do what we do. That's right. You know, Dr. Shaw, we're talking about the book of Job.
Well, by the way, how are you? We always jump right into it. We never just stop to check in. I'm not as bad as Job. No matter how bad.
Yeah, no matter how bad things get in life, I can always look at Job and say, you know what, Lord, I'm doing a-okay. Not sitting on a pile of ashes, scraping clothes with a broken battery. Yeah, Job was having Job. What was it? Job and the no-good, very bad.
Terrible, horrible, no-good thing. There it is. There it is. You know, Dr. Shaw, we're coming to this point in the story now when.
We come to Job's friends. They kind of arrive on the scene and we kind of praise them for being good friends in some ways and bad friends in other ways. But we always want to jump right to what his friends said, right? And we end up not giving any context at all to who are these men? Where are they from?
What is their background? And in some ways, it's like, well, the text doesn't give us that, so it doesn't matter. All we care about is what was actually said. But Bible scholars don't really operate that way. You know, you want to dig into as much context as you can possibly find.
And so you just did a sermon last week on how these men don't just show up in the book of Job, they actually show up elsewhere in the Bible. Absolutely. I mean, these men, Eliphaz, the Temenite, Bildad, the Shuhite, Zophar, the Namathite, and of course, Elihu as well, who comes in, I think, somewhere about Job 32. These were not mythological Individuals. These were not just somebody's imagination.
These were real people who lived in real time. And amazingly, if we do a little bit of detective work, we're going to find that there's a very good possibility that they are mentioned in the book of Genesis.
Now, before we dive into that discussion, for anybody who's listening, maybe for the first time, what if they're saying, you know, does it really matter if these men lived or not? The things they say are still true or not true, depending on how we take the conversation. But does it matter whether they lived or not?
Well, you got to look at it this way. Yes, the message is far more important than the story and the characters. I get it. But. The message is weakened Okay, W A K A K E N E D is weakened if.
This is just a make-believe story. Right, right.
So it does matter. Again, I get it. The principles are what matters. But if it's just somebody made it up, like Aesop's Fable or something like that, or some Disney movie, then it's much easier for me to dismiss it and go, well, that's just some author somewhere sat there and made up this story. How do we know that it really works?
Right, right.
So having it grounded In a historical place with historical people in a historical time gives it great credence and authority. I think one of the other things that you said in your sermon was: because you're operating from the perspective that these men lived, that means they're from somewhere.
So the culture that they brought with them into that conversation is influencing it. It's not as though, like, a fictional character like Luke Skywalker, all the lessons I learned from Luke Skywalker.
Well, those lessons really are coming from George Lucas, and he's not a Christian, right? He believes really crazy things. That's right. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, if it's there's not like some external author somewhere who has his own agenda or his own thoughts and worldviews that I'm seeping in through fiction.
These are men who came from a culture that influenced the way that they spoke. Otherwise, the author would have made them say whatever he wanted to say. You're right. But understanding these men's culture helps understand the source of the advice that they're giving and understand how we parse this out as it applies to Job's life. And we do that in our own day-to-day life.
Like, if someone's coming to us and giving us advice, we know this person, we know their background. And we say, okay, based on their background, based on what I know about them and how they grew up, I may or may not take this advice.
So seeing these men. As real people who lived, and then finding out, okay, well, this is the culture they come from, this was their worldview, kind of helps shed some light on what it is that they're actually saying. Absolutely. Yeah. And I like, we talked about this off mic.
I think we've talked about it on the show where you read what Job's friends say, and it actually sounds kind of good. Yeah. You know what I mean? At first glance, you're like, I mean, yeah. I mean, Job is kind of, I mean, I know you're going through a hard time right now, Job, but you do seem kind of proud.
Like, you're not going to take the L on this at all.
Well, later on, we're going to see how one of those friends was coming from a land that was known for its wisdom. In ancient times, Edom. The land named after Esau. was known for wisdom. And he is bringing the best of ancient wisdom.
I mean, in fact, all three of his friends. And even the fourth one is bringing the best of wisdom at the time, which I think is still the best of wisdom, but it's worldly wisdom. Doesn't mean it's evil, bad, terrible, but it's not from God. It's not from God. Right, yeah.
It's secular wisdom that they're trying in. Would you say it's them doing the best they can, even though it's really, really good by a secular standard? Yeah, it it's just the best they can. And yes, it's a hit or miss. And most of the time, even the hits.
are ultimately amiss. wicked or evil, it's just incomplete. Right. Incomplete. Um limited The opposite of eternal.
Yeah. It's like, it's sort of like us when we try to give advice, but we're not bringing it from the Bible. Like someone's thinking about, like, I'm thinking about breaking up with so-and-so, or I'm thinking about quitting my job. And we're like, well, listen, you. I've always heard.
Yeah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or my dad used to say, blah, blah, blah. Or you just got to do what you think is right and follow your heart. It's like, okay, I've heard that somewhere.
That's the wisdom of the day, but that doesn't make it the right advice. That's right. Yeah, good point.
So, what we really need to do in the next few moments is actually look at these names. And see if there is plausible evidence. I didn't say that in the message, but I wish I had. that we're not Able to 100% identify each of these individuals to names mentioned in the Bible, in the book of Genesis, but at least there should be plausible identity that you can say, based on what I'm seeing, the time period, the names, the meaning of the names, the region where these people are, based on the best evidence possible, there is a strong possibility that these are the same people. That's the best we can do.
Other than that, I mean We just have to go. Only God knows. This ain't going to be like a Smash Brothers roster. Like, we're going to lock that in. It's 100% confirmed.
Yeah, I got to lock that in. It's 100% confirmed. Burt and Ernie in Smash Brothers 2026.
So, yeah, let's look at these few names and peoples. All right.
So, just know. To begin with, Uh Where was Uz?
Well, in Genesis chapter 10, verse 21, it mentions one of the children born to Shem. was a bear and um And and then uh um I'm sorry. Were Elam, Ishur, Arfaksad, Lud, and Aram. And one of the sons of Aram were Uh-huh.
So that name of where Job came from is mentioned in Genesis chapter 10 as the names of one of Shem's grandsons. And that's very common in the Bible for a place to be named after an ancient person. Oh, I mean, it's still common today. Yeah. I mean, we live in the city of Henderson.
Yo, oh, good point. Right. Richard Henderson was one of those people back in the 18th century who was very prominent, one of the old families in this area. After whom this place is known. And a lot of people may not realize that, but Richard Henderson was one of the key individuals who opened the way to the West.
The whole Westward movement, Richard Henderson was part of that. Wow. Don't you remember that? I didn't realize that. Yeah, when we went to the history tour.
History tour. You were not able to be there, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, you weren't there? No, I wasn't.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, he was part of it. He sort of kick-started that westward expansion, like the pioneer westward expansion. Wow. Buying up land from the Indians, moving out west, and then selling the land.
I mean, that's part of the Go West young man. Campaign, yeah.
So yes, even in our day there are towns and cities and Places named after people.
So, also in the past.
So, you do, so at least you can start as broad as you can with the location of the setting. Yeah. It's in Genesis. And then also in Genesis 26, it's mentioned again the name Uz.
So these are all small, if I'm getting your point correctly, these are all small little indicators that this is not myth, this is history. It's a real person. Gotcha. And then it says right here: this is in Lamentations chapter 4. And verse twenty one Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom You who dwell in the land of us.
So, us and Edom almost are, I would say, synonyms, at least in the time of. Jeremiah Lamentations. It says right here in Jeremiah chapter 25 and verse 17: Then I took the cup from the Lord's hand and made all the nations drink to whom the Lord had sent me, verse 20, all the mixed multitudes, all the kings of the land of us.
So by this time, like we're, everybody, most scholars are pretty.
Solid that the time of Jeremiah, the Babylonian exile, that's history. That happened.
So Uz is still around. Right. So it was still there. And then we can later on determine what time period Job lived based on the things that he mentions, based on how the Hebrew is written. We can determine the time.
But at least we know this much: that Uz was not just a land of make-believe. It was a real land. Yeah, there was no, it wasn't, Uz was not like Narnia or like. I don't know. This is it's verified that this is an actual place.
So that's that's a step toward verifying other things in the book. That's where you also it was on the east side of the Jordan towards northern Arabia. It was very lush and green at the time, because in the book of Job it talks about greenery. Hence, probably around the time of Abraham and Lot, when us was green and lush. Gotcha.
Gotcha. Yeah, I always picture us like some desert wasteland or something like that. I don't know why. Gotcha. I think sometimes we see Bible and we're like, oh, that must have been the desert.
It was the middle of the desert. Yeah, like you see those little infographics on YouTube or kids' Bible stories. They always put Job out in the desert somewhere. Yeah. Not true.
Now, Job, we're going to come back to later on. This may take like more than one episode. Let's move on to the first friend who shows up. His name is Eliphaz. The Temenite Now, in the Septuagint, for those of you who do not know, Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Old Testament.
This was not some systematic movement. This was not some society that was organized to translate the Hebrew Bible into Greek. It was just independent movements. People, the Jewish people were losing their language, and in the process, their children were no longer reading the word of God, and so they felt like if we could translate. The Old Testament from Hebrew to Greek.
Because Greek had become the lingua franca of the world after Alexander the Great.
So they felt like if we could translate the Bible, then our young people will read the Bible and God's truth will keep going to the next generation, to the next generation, to the next generation. That is the Septuagint. Uh the the more traditional History of Septuagint is like the 70 people who translated the Old Testament. 70 scholars.
Now, we don't know for sure there were 70 or whatever. All we know is that throughout. The Jewish world in the second century B C until the fourth I'm sorry, the second century AD, there were these various translations made of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek.
So in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint It is not just Eliphaz the Temenite, it is Eliphaz King of the Temanites.
Okay, so he's not just a guy from a place. He's a king. Right. King. Which kind of implies, right, that Job is also either a king or a very, very, very high king.
Some sort of dignitary operating on that level. And it's Bildad the king of the Shuhites. And it's Zophar the king of the Nematites. Did the Septuagint add that, do you think? Or they're pulling it.
I believe so. I think they clarified who these people are. Got it, got it, got it. In other words, they had some information that we don't have that convinced them enough to say. Elifaz was more than just a man from Teman.
He was the king of Timon. And let's add this. Let's add that clarifying detail in there because that matters. Matters who are. It's not like the word of God got adulterated at that point.
It simply means that they. Clarified just so that nobody will forget. Do we see that in our modern translation? I mean, study Bibles are just that. Just have it.
Okay, okay. No, well, yes. I was saying, do our translations like New King James ESV call Eliphaz and these guys kings? No, it simply says the Tamani. Because most of our English Bibles are based on the Masoretic text, not the Septuagint.
Got it, got it.
Okay. Cool.
So if The Septuagint calls Eliphaz the king of the Tamanites, then I need to then find out who were the Tamanites.
So in Genesis 25, verse 13, it says, And these were the names of the sons of Ishmael. by their names according to their generations The firstborn of Ishmael Nebayot, Dunked our Abdil, Mzam, Mishma, Duma, Masa, Hadar, Tay mom. A son of Ishmael. Those are the sons of Ishmael. And the names keep going.
Yeah. So, from his descendants, from Tamah's descendants, we would get the Temonites. That's right. And then in. Jeremiah chapter 49, verse 7, it says, Against Edom, thus says the Lord of hosts, is wisdom no more in Taman?
Has counsel perished from the prudent? Has their wisdom vanished?
So we're building up this character profile of who the Temonites were. Right, but one thing we need to capture there more than just. Who Eliphaz was is that Edom or The region known as Timon was known for wisdom. I mean, read again that verse. What does this say?
It says: Thus says the Lord of hosts: Is wisdom no more in Taman? Has counsel perished from the prudent? Has their wisdom vanished?
They were known for being Okay. Wise. They were known for their wisdom principles. Yeah. And this is like legitimate wisdom.
This isn't like, this isn't like. Secular wisdom that God doesn't value.
Well, this is the Lord speaking in Jeremiah. That's God's words there. That's right. And then we find in Genesis 36 verse 4 It gives us a genealogy, and Adah bore Eliphaz to Esau. You know, Esau, Jacob's brother, has several wives.
Some readings tell us that maybe three, some readings tell us that it may have been as many as five.
So one of those wives, Ada, uh bore Eliphaz to Esau and basement bore ruel.
So two wives, Ada Ba Smith. Yeah. Esau had Eliphas, from Bashmut he had rule.
Okay. Now is this Eliphaz, this is obviously a different Eliphaz than the friend, or is this the same person? Sim guy.
So Eliphaz, the Timonite, king of the Timonite, is Esau's direct son.
Okay. Well, that definitely adds some connection. That's a significant connection. Huge. Yeah.
And so That tells us, because he also, how close those words are: Eliphaz the Tamanite and one of Eliphaz's sons is. Tema. Right? One of Eliphaz's sons is Tamon. Right here, it says in verse 11, Genesis 36, verse 4, verse 11, and the sons of Eliphaz were.
Tamon, Omar, Zepho, Gatimo.
So it's. Taman. Named for his people? Tamont more than likely The region or the city was named Timon. And he named his son after his people.
Gotcha, gotcha. Because he wouldn't be the son, he wouldn't be the king of like his son's descendants, but he's naming his son after. They were so proud of their city. Eliphaz was so proud of their people that he gave the same name as his city to his son.
Well, this pretty much could, I mean, this pretty much cements the timeline of Job, right? Like, because, like, if Esau's firstborn son is one of Job's friends. Then this happened probably, what, 50 years after the story of Jacob and Esau? Because at this point, you don't have people living for centuries and centuries. I mean, this is a limited lifespan of 100-plus-ish years.
That's right. Eliphaz may have been. I mean, if Eliphaz was born, Eliphaz may have been at that reunion of Jacob and Esau. Like, if he brought his family and stuff with him, could be, I would say. If he was born.
I mean, it says he's the first, well, he's the firstborn son of that. He probably was there. That's wild. That's really wild.
So now you got to think: imagine the things he saw. Imagine the life experiences he had growing up, and he's trying to bring all this wisdom.
So I'm just looking over here while I have a quick second.
So, Genesis chapter, this is chapter 36.
So, if you go to Genesis chapter 36, what do we find here? We find the family of Esau. If you go further back, Genesis chapter 35, you find all the stuff about. Jacob returning to Bethel. And um And then the death of Rachel, Jacob's twelve sons, the death of Isaac.
And then this whole genealogy of Eliphaz, the Temanite, and all of them. And then the next chapter is the chiefs of Edom, The sons of sire The kings of Edom. The chiefs of We saw Joseph dreams of greatness and he is in Egypt now. Mm.
So we could pretty I mean We can. Greatly narrows down the timeline of Job. This also lends credence to the whole thing about Job being like the first book written. Yeah. Right.
Because if this was written shortly after Job's life, I mean, Moses. If he's a contemporary of these men, Moses is nowhere on the scene yet. Yeah. Wow. And also something very important is that Eliphaz, the name itself, means God is God is fine gold.
Yeah. Not gods and goddesses, not idols. God. God. So that also lends credence to the fact that L.
L. God. Yeah. Think about, like, I think one of the misconceptions we have, and maybe you can kind of talk about this, is that we think that, okay, if they're not through. Jacob, if they're not through Israel.
Then they're the bad guys. The Edomites are the bad guys. Esau's descendants, they're the bad guys. And so when you think, okay, Eliphaz is from them, it's like, well, then functionally in the story, he's a bad guy. He's got to be a bad guy.
Yeah, yeah. No, I think eventually or in time, the descendants of. uh these people whether they were Edomites or um The descendants of Ishmael. or descendants of um Those who came through Abraham's other wife, Keturah. In time, I think many of them became pagans.
In time, they hated God's people. But I think the original generation. The first to the second cousins, maybe even third cousins, I think they were okay with God's people. They didn't like love them, but they were okay and they recognized that the. The promised one was not going to come through them, it was going to come through the descendants of.
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Right, yeah, they knew that. But in time, The other descendants that came From Edomites or Esau or Ishmael or Keturah, I think in time they began to hate God's people. There just became more and more distance and division. Between them.
Yeah. So originally, I think they were fine. They got along okay. Gotcha. And so here in Genesis chapter 36 and verse.
15. These were the chiefs of the sons of Esau. The sons of Eliphaz, the firstborn of Esau, were chief Tamon, means they were not just. Any old famous people, they were actually kings and princes. And then again in chapter 36, Genesis 36, verse 41.
It says Chief Aholibama, Chief Elah, Chief Pinon, Chief Kanaz, Chief Timon.
So the Timonites. Yeah. So that's.
So I would say, what does this prove? Because somebody can often say, just simply say, wait a minute. Eliphaz the Tamanite Eliphas' son, according to Genesis thirty-six, is Tamon. Are you telling me that the father is named after the son? That the name Taman was the name of the region.
And it was such a special place for these people that one of them, even named Eliphaz, named his son after where they lived. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, it says specifically he's the king of the Timonites.
That place has to already exist. Yeah. It would be the, I mean, this is sort of maybe a silly example, but it'd be the equivalent of somebody naming their child America today, which happens. I mean, there are kids named America. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Carolina.
Carolina. Yeah, we have people that we know named Carolina. Carolina. Dallas. But Dallas is a city.
Still. Texas. Tex. It happens. Yeah.
Everything's Texas. Speaking of Texas, by the way, this is a little silly aside, but Dallas has actually reclaimed its number one spot on Prey.com. Shout out to Dallas. Thank you, Dallas. Thank you for listening.
We love you. Who shot JR, by the way? Dallas. Nobody, Dr. Shaw gets it.
It was an old TV joke. Oh. Anyway, LFS. Anyway, LFS. I think that's helpful though, because outside of this conversation, you know, at first glance, seeing Tema and then Teman.
That can be confusing, like who's named for what? Where do we where does this fall? Maybe this is all just made up, but knowing that Tama came first, the region is named for him, and then later down the line, Tamat is named for the region. Yeah, it comes down to how you interpret it. Illiberal scholarship will say, Are you telling me Eliphaz a Temana, and you took that verse?
And that's his son. That's his son. Who would say Abaddon, the Nicola site. You can't just, you can't. I don't think any scholar would say Timon and say, oh, that's the first one to ever exist.
He's gotta be. Because he's named, right? You named him Tamon. Like, yeah, there could have been other Tamons before him. I know millions of atoms.
Doesn't mean that.
So, how does this atom with? Like it, yeah. It's a name exists. But if you go back to our son, Nicholas, he's named after Nicole. Right.
So because Nicole was important to me, when she suggested, said, What if he is named Nicholas after me? I was like, I won't be have a problem with that. I think that's a good name. That's a solid name. That's a classic name.
I said, go for it. Let's do that. And so, even though he is after me, It's named after. Nicole. Right.
Now, I'm not going to call myself Abaddon the Nicolite. Right. Oh, the Nicolite? That could be kind of cool. Yeah, but, which is a heresy.
Oh, really? Yeah. The Nicolasian heresy. Oh, really? Yeah.
I never heard of that. We don't identify with them. We don't like that. We don't like that. All that to say, I know we didn't go past just one character here, maybe two.
We went through us as well. All that to say These are not Imaginary places. These are not mythological places. These are real people, real places. And the more you can, yeah, and the more you connect the dots, the more secure you start to feel in your faith.
All I'm saying is, and all I think we should say is: is there plausible evidence? Plausible evidence, reasonable evidence that this could be that person since the name. And that site designation is also right here, so close to Eliphaz in a Taman region and a Taman sun. And I would say that is enough to be reasonable. For me to make the conclusion that this is one and the same person.
Do I have 100% surety? You don't even have 100% surety of your own Family line. Right. That's true. What's the name of your great-grandfather?
Well, I thought it was Hanzis. I learned this year that was not his name. No, I said Hanzi. Haji. Oh, my great-grandfather.
No clue. What is your name of the great-grandfather? Uh one of them's name was Elmer.
Okay. Oh, that's beyond that I don't know.
Alright, David, what is the name of your great-grandfather? Is it grandfather or great-grandfather?
Okay, great-great-grandfather.
Okay, you see, I mean, we don't know. Yeah, I'm not gonna know. I mean, does that mean you don't exist? Yeah, no, no. That's what I need to tell the scholar.
You know, you name me your great-great-grandfather. If you don't know, then you must start be real. I hate to break it to you. I hate to be the one to tell you, but you are actually not real. And if you're not real, then none of the things that you say are really that important.
So, why can't we extend the same amount of plausible? Evidence to say this could be the same. I agree. It's not out of the question. That's right.
Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen or share it with a friend. You can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give.
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