Christians, you cannot afford to sit on the sidelines. National decisions shape real lives. And our faith calls us to engage with wisdom and conviction in our nation today. How to get involved and why you should coming up right now on the TheB Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Studio midweek, right here with us. We are so glad that you're here.
Hope your week has been going well and these discussions have been helping you. If not, trust me, keep listening. You're going to hear something that God wants you to hear today. We are in the studio with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show.
Dr. Shah, unfortunately, winter is upon us. Yes, it is. Winter is here. Knocking at the door.
It's cold. It is wet. It is gray. It's like you wake up at 8 a.m. and the sky is just like evening.
It's black and you love it. I do. You're loving this. It's fantastic. Do you love it when it's rainy and cold?
I don't love rainy.
So let me clarify that before people think I'm an absolute psychopath. I don't like it to be raining and cold. Oh. If it's going to precipitate in the cold weather, it ought to be snow. Can you imagine?
It needs to be something we can play in. Can you? I wonder if we have listeners in Seattle. I'm sure there's got to be at least a few. I like imagine Seattle in the winter.
Oh my God. That's probably great. That's probably miserable. Yeah, I like the cold. To walk outside and kind of like bites you on the nose and the cheeks a little bit.
I don't like the cold rain. Growing up in India, did it ever get like this? Like it is outside right now? No. Never.
Never. What was a day, like temperature-wise, where you're like, oh man, it's cold today? I mean, it does get cold.
So don't get me wrong. When I say it doesn't get like this. What I mean by that is it doesn't get uh I would say at the most Maybe 50 tad bit lower where I was.
Now, you can go to other parts of the country where it can drop down to 30 degrees. And I mean, if you go further north, that's where you get into the Himalaya Mountains. Right. It's going to be cold. Mount Everest is in India.
Right. So Mount Everest is the highest peak in the world. Oh, yeah. That's in India. Yes.
Snowcapped mountains. Yes. So you cannot say, is there cold weather in India? Yes, there is. Of course, it'll get cold.
There's a lot of cold weather. Where I was, about 50, I would say, would be considered to be, oh, it's very cold out.
So I would say India is like, it's not that it doesn't get cold, but the hot is just really, really hot. Yeah. You would say that. Yeah, hot is pretty hot. Gotcha.
Gotcha. Well, you know, everything we do here on the show, from producing it to sharing it with you guys, it all happens because of faithful listeners like you. And even though the weather outside is cold, you can be snuggled up right now with a great episode of the Clearview Today Show, thanks to listeners who support us.
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Shah, I know this is one of your favorite verses of all time, and it's our verse of the day today. 2 Chronicles 7:14 says, If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and I will forgive their sin and I will heal their land. And you are just off the cusp of coming back from conferences. You went to ETS, then you went to SBL. You came home.
Turned right around and went to another conference, another convention that you went to. That's right. This one was. organized and um Put together by the American Renewal Project. And for those of you who are familiar with Clearview Today, we support the American Renewal Project.
It's led by David and Cindy Lane. And Their goal is to get Christians to take part in politics. We often think. You know, Christians, we're gonna stay. In the word, we're going to witness to people, but politics is dirty.
Politics is for the other people, for the politicians. I'm not a politician. And that's the reason why we're in the mess we are. That's true. It's because Christians' churches retreated from the marketplace, more specifically from the courthouse, from the city hall, and so we are in the mess we are.
This project right now that's happening in North Carolina is known as the Nehemiah Project. If you know Nehemiah's story in the Bible, the walls around Jerusalem had been torn down and the temple had been sort of rebuilt, but the walls were still down. And Nehemiah, who was in Susa, he was back in Persia. He was getting news from his brothers and sisters who were coming back. Um you know, coming back from there.
from their old country to to maybe come back home. Mm-hmm. He was hearing from them that the walls were down and the people were in great despair. They were completely vulnerable to their enemy neighbors. In fact, even wild animals could come into the city and cause havoc.
So Um it you know, when a city does not have walls, It it does not have any source of protection. The enemy can come in, go out any time they want. And so Nehemiah burdened. And he wept. He prayed, he fasted.
And then he went before the king, the king of Persia, and he sought. permission and sought help so he could go back to his Native homeland, even though I don't think Nehemiah had been there before. Born and raised in Babylon. Yeah, that's right. He was an exiled kid.
He was a child of the exile. Right. Maybe his grandparents We were taken into exile by Nebuchadnezzar, but he himself had never. been there. And so He wants to go back.
And help his people. Right. So there's a conviction, there's an inlaid conviction for a people that he's not really ever known, a home that he's never known, and yet God put this conviction in his heart. Do you think this is a supernatural conviction, or do you think this is the people around him, like the Jewish people around him, sort of raising him up to believe this way?
Well, I think it goes hand in hand because God uses the people to bring him the news, and that news cuts him to the core to realize I'm here living in the lap of luxury. I have pulled myself up by my bootstraps, or his family did really well in exile. By the way, a lot of research has come out that when the Jewish people were in exile in Babylon and later on in Persia, they were not like living in tents. Right. They were not like uh you know Like homeless people.
They had homes. Just the way God had told them through Jeremiah: plant homes, build homes, plant vineyards, give your daughters in marriage, take Uh sons For your daughters, is it, you know, continue life? Don't sit here paralyzed. Yeah, we picture them as captives, right? I mean, I guess in a sense they are, but we picture them like they're in shackles and caves, like no, no, no, no, no, yeah, they prospered very well.
So going back to help his people. was not something that he wanted to do. Right. An average Jewish person would not have wanted to do that. Would not have taken that.
I mean, it's not exactly a lucrative financially, it's not a lucrative choice to go back and rebuild a town that's destroyed. But Nehemiah feels that pull, he feels that call, that sense of, I guess, divine appointment or that sense of duty that God lays out before him. How does the story, this story of Nehemiah, how does that map onto? What the American Renewal Project is doing.
Well, the walls why they chose Nene Mai Bro. Yeah, the walls are torn down all across America. The walls are torn down.
Now, you may think, oh, come on, it's not torn down. I mean, I still go to the mall and I buy things I need. I can go online and buy the things I need and it gets delivered to my home. Things are fine. We worship here, we do things, nothing's a big deal.
It's not as much of a big deal as because through the years, there have been a lot of people prior to me. And then I have seen people who have fought for your rights to have the freedoms you do. Right. Who've been fighting for your rights? Right.
And They have been standing in the gap. They have been standing as a sentry around those walls to protect the enemy from coming in.
So never forget that.
Sometimes people think, oh, y'all are making a big deal. Is this all politics? Or it's the election year and so churches and Christians start making a lot of noise. having lived here now coming up thirty four some years I have seen what happens when Christians don't get involved. I can also see like a parallel in the Nehemiah story because it took that one man, Nehemiah.
But there's also countless other Jewish people who are living in the lap of luxury and being like, What are you worried about? Everything's good. You know, and I see like people, just like you said, there are people living in America today who are like, Look at our technology, look at how easy life is. Like, things are fine. Yeah.
But it takes that one person. And I think, even for you today, and maybe you can kind of branch out and talk about some of the other pastors because, you know, just like Nehemiah, you didn't have to go to that conference. We hosted one of their conferences here. We hosted one of the other people. We hosted it for three years.
Several hosted, I would say, what, three, something? Three. Three. Yes. And so the one that we just did this year was Nehemiah Project Focused.
And then you went to ETS and then you went to SBL. And then coming home off those, it would have been very easy to say, Look, I'm tired. I've done my part. I've contributed. I don't have to drive three hours away to go attend this conference.
Why did you feel that conviction like you needed to be there? Because if I don't go, then it tells people, because there are people from our church who went that I had talked to about going. I said, we need to go. And there are people in our church who are running for office.
So I told them. We need to go. And I had tables in my name. And I wish the whole table was full, but people were sick and things happened. And I understand that.
But there are people who are going and I wanted to make sure that if I am going to challenge and that's one of the things I tell you guys all the time, if you're going to challenge anybody in your circle of influence or those who are under you or those you are you know, giving them uh leadership. If you're asking them to do something that you want to do, then you need to stop asking them to do it. That's right. That's true. And so, if I'm going to tell them, go drive three hours right before Christmas to go attend this conference, and I'm like, oh, so tired.
I'm just going to. Rest, you know, if I don't rest, I'm no good to anybody.
Okay. Yeah, next time, don't ask people to do things. Right. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a great point.
So that's one of my reasons. And of course, it's a deeper reason because I believe in the cause. I believe that. If Christians Don't rise up. If pastors don't preach On the role of Christianity.
In American life. Of course, it's in the foundation of our nation, but even right now, in American life, if we don't talk about it, Then very soon people are going to forget it, and we're going to lose the freedom to talk about anything. Right. You know, we think, as long as I preach the gospel, I'm not going to get into politics. Listen, if you don't stand up for your biblical values, you won't have the freedom To preach the values.
Exactly right. Everything is woven together because our culture is not just, our society is not just, you have your religious beliefs over here, and that is separate from what happens in the day-to-day, in the everyday quote-unquote world. You know, for years, people have kind of struggled with this. And I think, you know, through people like you, Dr. Shaw, from saying this from the pulpit and initiatives like the American Renewal Project.
We're seeing a shift, but for years people were saying, you know, Christians don't need to be in politics. Christians don't need to be involved at all. The church does its own thing. Politicians do their thing, and never the two shall meet. But I think you said it perfectly, which is why that's why we're in the mess that we're in, because Christians have abandoned the political world.
They've abandoned the public sector and just sort of like hidden behind sanctuary doors. I think speaking as someone who grew up in America, grew up very privileged, grew up sort of not having to care about any of this, and only very recently in my life starting to care about it. I can say, at least with personal experience, that it's difficult for us to not to believe this, but to. To identify with it. Here's what I mean.
I think you growing up in India, you've seen firsthand what it looks like for Christians to lose their rights. You've seen it. You've seen it happen. Where it's like, okay, in the 80s, Christianity is not the majority at all, but it's more or less accepted. Whereas now, okay, it's really not okay or not safe to be a Christian.
You've seen that process. And so coming here, you're able to say, hey, I've seen this happen firsthand back home. Here's how it's going to go down. Here's how it's going to work. And I think it's very easy for us as Americans to say, nah, I don't think so.
Not here. You know what I mean? Because we haven't seen that happen. Yeah, and. I I saw my dad always Very active in politics, always educating himself.
He would read the newspaper every morning. He would listen to the radio every evening. And then television came and we switched to watching television news. There was a news hour. We would sit and watch the news.
We were so much more informed about not only Indian political issues, but also. the world political issues. We were so much more informed. When I came to America, I realized how ignorant the average American is, how ignorant even a Christian American is. We don't know about these issues.
Now in a in a way, I don't know how how to say this, but Social media has brought news to us now. People don't turn on. the news station to get the news, they just look through their Facebook or some other social media outlet. And that's where they find their news. Or they go to some digital platform where they are getting their news, and that's where they find information.
But keep in mind Of course. Television, radio can also be corrupt. Newspaper can be corrupt. But I believe the social media news is probably the most. Distorted version of news out there.
Oh, it's 100% unfiltered. Yeah, again, again, I'm clarifying that newspaper can be biased, radio can be biased, television can. I'm admitting that it can be. But at least there was something you would know, and we still do. It's like, okay, that particular radio station, yeah, they are more liberal.
Or that television station, oh, they're crazy. Mm-hmm. But social media How do you know who is crazy and who's not? You can't. You can't.
And for the most part, if you have a newspaper or a media outlet, a TV station, social media accounts, even if it's a group page or if it's like a forum online, most of the time there's one personality that's running that.
So you're listening to one person's opinion, you're listening to one person's beliefs, and that's going to dominate the conversation. And there's no stand. Yeah, there's no standard of keeping a consistent voice because it's just one person. And so one person's allowed to change their mind. They're allowed to contradict themselves.
At least, like, and I think you had it, Dr. Shah, even though radio and TV and all that stuff can lean bias, you still end up knowing them. You know what I mean? Like, we've been doing this show for two years. Our listeners know us, they know where we stand on this issue.
And you can call that bias if you want, but at least you know, okay, I know where they're going to more or less land as far as politically, theologically, all that stuff. With social media, it is really Russian roulette. And then whoever wants to say something. They can say it. They can copy and paste someone's crazy views.
Who knows where they got it from? And now you have false news, fake news that is perpetuated everywhere. And people get angry, people. are up in arms and and and it's it's we've seen the the danger of Fake news over the past 10 some years. Yeah, it's also consequence-free.
Yeah. Like if you get on radio or TV and you say something crazy, like you're going to maybe pay a fine or it'll get pulled. Oh, or people will stop watching you. Yeah. Or they'll stop reading your newspaper or they'll stop listening to your radio station.
But how do you Monitor social media where anybody and everybody can say whatever they want. There's no consequences at all. Yeah, it's rough.
So I know we kind of digress from our conversation here, but the whole point is this: we need to get educated, we need to know the issues. We need to know where the Bible stands on these issues. And so it is so critical, I cannot emphasize that enough, it is so critical for pastors. To educate your people, stop being super spiritual. Stop listening to the superheroes that you may have, they're great men of God.
They do a great job in certain theological doctrines and issues. They're great. They're my heroes, too. But when it comes to political issues, they go completely silent. And I often wonder if their silence is indicative of something else that is happening.
Who else? Behind the scenes is telling them, hey, you can say this, but not that. And if you say that, then we're going to pull our support. I I I mean, I'm I'm really wondering why is it that such people are are becoming gatekeepers. When it comes to speaking on church and politics, how would you encourage a pastor who may be in that situation where they're listening and they're like, you know, I'm afraid to say this out loud or I'm afraid to say this on social media or from the pulpit, but I am in a situation where if I say the wrong thing, I will lose my support.
How would you encourage people? Yeah, I mean, if it's a church issue, like your church people are upset with you for that, be careful, be diplomatic, pray over it. Don't just get up there Sunday morning and say, you know what, I'm going to preach to you on why all of you are liberals. Don't do that because then you will lose your job. And we don't want that to happen.
But what I am talking about here is: if you're following somebody who is a well-known Christian theologian, pastor. A Christian personality. who has been for some time Very vocal about church and state being separate. Oh, they're very vocal about why Christians should not support Israel or they're very vocal about Don't try to tell people. Whether or not homosexuality is a sin, just preach to God.
If they're doing things like that, Then you need to do your own research. Find out if what they are saying is actually true. Don't just parrot them don't just do that so you can be part of some guild. To be very honest with you, I've been around those people who are the head of these guilds. They don't care one bit about you.
That's true. They just want your support. All they want is come to my conference, buy my books. And that's it. You know, download my sermons.
That's what they want. Yeah. So I I want our pastors to educate themselves. And then Preach the word. And tell your people that your people are waiting for you to talk to them about political issues.
I think that's one of the things that I've learned here at Clearview: people are hungry for this. They want it. And I think a lot of pastors, and maybe you can kind of speak to this too, are scared to give it to them because they're afraid of exactly what you described, like your church will turn against it. I think that so many more people are hungry for it than we realize. Yeah.
There's a lot of people who want to be told, not necessarily like what to think, but they want their beliefs validated because they hold these convictions. And we saw that in this last election. The majority of America holds deeply. Biblical conservative conviction. Yeah, well, you've always shared that, Dr.
Shah, is that there are more people who believe like we do than we realize. Yes. That's a quiet majority. A lot of times you hear like, everybody thinks this way, or everybody, but again, you're listening to a media outlet and you're hearing some of those liberal biases coming out.
Well, the media was rudely awakened at the last election because they thought, oh, it's going to go this way. And then you see them going, I don't know. It's like the popular. I don't know what to say. None of this adds up.
I don't think it's going to make sense. It's like the kid at high school who thinks they're really popular, but they're just really loud. And then they're confronted with the fact that they're not. I mean, that election night watching, because I prayed hard and I knew. that President Trump was going to win.
But I was still in the back of my mind, I was like, I have the same high hopes the last time. I think he's gonna win this time, but I don't know, I don't know. And then one by one, when those state tho tho those those results started coming in. I was like Wow. Yeah.
It wasn't until I saw the map. When I saw the map, like overwhelmingly, you really see, like, wow, there's an overwhelming shift happening.
So, the reason I bring that up, this whole thing about this, or what you brought up about the silent majority and all that, is because those same, many of those silent majority people are sitting in churches. Mm-hmm. And they're looking for a shepherd. And you're like, I'm not going to do that.
Well, I I Your sheep are asking for your help, for your guidance. When you don't do that. you are telling them that you are not qualified to guide them. You're not qualified to be their shepherd. He said, well, but what if I don't believe like them?
Then you need to get in the Bible and look at biblical values. And look at The values propagated by The parties, and then make your choice as to which party. You feel like aligns the best with your value. Again, unless Jesus is on the ballot. We're going to have to pick people.
Right. They may not all 100% agree with us. They may not even be Christians. What do you do? Mm-hmm.
But if they're going to stand for biblical values for us, Then we're going to support them.
So educate yourself. Figure out which Party or person lines up the best possible with your values, Coming from the Bible. and then vote that way that's right and then teach your people To vote that way.
So important. That's the key to shifting things further. That's the key to recovering some of these conservative biblical values and once again being one nation under God. Yeah. And by the way, the Nehemiah Project was.
One step further, and the step further is to challenge and encourage pastors and church leaders and people in the churches to run for office. That's right. So, it's not just educate yourself, vote biblical values, encourage your people to vote biblical values, but Encourage your people to run for public office. That's right. Gosh, Dr.
Shah, I hear what you're saying. I hear that it's important to educate myself, but can I be a pastor and actually run for political office?
Well, I will go and tell you this: when it comes to filing for election, Don't go and say, I'm going to run for the mayor of this city. I'm running for the governor of North Carolina. Dude, I might just run for the president. I think I'm going to be the president. No, you don't need to do like that.
Now, maybe God may use you. Mm-hmm. To run for some of those big big positions Who knows? Maybe God just wants you to run for the school board. Maybe He wants you to run for the city council or the county commissioners.
Maybe God just wants you to run for a board at a local agency. Mm-hmm. A non-profit. Run for those boards. and then see Whether or not you want to continue down this path.
So don't immediately eye the governor's mansion. Let's start small and see where God will lead you. You'd be surprised where God may lead you. Yeah, we talked about that on a few episodes back where, you know, that's also a great way to get involved in your community. And, you know, you influence your community a lot of times from the pulpit, but you also influence your community on those boards and in those meetings.
Well, and the beautiful thing is, you can do both. You can maintain with those smaller offices.
Now, the governor, the mayor, those are larger time commitments. Those are larger things to sink your teeth into. But the smaller offices for school board, county commissioner, things like that, you can continue to make a difference in the pulpit while also making a difference in the political world. You can do both at the same time. And it's not just for the pastors, it's also for church people, for Christians in general.
So, this Nehemiah project, Pastor Summit, which was held in Charlotte, was, of course, to encourage pastors to run. But if you're not ready to do that, if God is not calling you to do that, that's fine. Get people in your church, get your leaders, get people who you know have a biblical grounding, get people who are strong in their home life, you know, because you don't want to go out there While your home is crumbling, or your marriage is struggling, or your children are not doing well, and say, I'm going to run for it. Maybe not right now. But prayerfully, if you notice that God keeps leading you down that path.
Then you Ask the question, God, which office? And then run for that office. The pastors, of course, run. If God is calling you, but also encourage your church people. To step up.
That's right. That's how we'll see the shift. That's how we'll see things continue to change for God's glory and for the good of our country. And if you'd like more information on the American Renewal Project, you can visit their website at AmericanRenewalProject.org. It's all one word, AmericanRenewalProject.org.
They're good friends of ours. Yes. And recommend that you check them out, especially if you're a pastor or a ministry leader, check them out and use them as a resource for your church. By the way, you get to meet some very interesting people. I had a chance to meet and shake hands with Ted Cruz.
That was awesome. I saw that. Wow, very cool. He came and spoke there, and phenomenal. I mean, you never have to worry about where Ted Cruz is going to come down.
Yeah, that's true. Especially biblical issues, biblical convictions.
So I admired him a lot over the years. And it was great for me to stand there and shake hands with him. I said, Do you mind take a picture? Because a friend of mine who was there, he's like, ask him for a picture. I was like, oh, I don't know.
He's like, ask him. I have your camera. It's like, okay.
So I'm like, do you mind if you take a picture? He's like, absolutely not. That's really awesome. He was really, really nice. Very cool.
Yeah. Guys, make sure you join us next time, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And if today was your first time listening to us, hey, we want to legend that we love you.
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