James said to count it all joy when we fall into various trials means this. It's not a question of if, it's a matter of a when. That's right. That's what we're talking about today coming up right now on the Clearview Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.
Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and thank you for joining us here in the Clearview Today studio. We got a great episode for you guys today, great discussion, kind of continuing a spiritual successor to our conversation on the book of Job. But before we get into any of that, I want to welcome our host, Dr.
Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show, Dr. Shah. Welcome. It's good to be here. Welcome to the studio.
Amen. Amen. We've got a great conversation today. Before we dive into it, though, I do want to give a quick shout out to one of our sponsors and let you guys know that this episode of Clearview Today is brought to you by Mighty Muscadine. Believe it or not, right now in America, there are over 136 million Americans who are dealing with diabetes.
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So thank you for everybody who's supporting us. Dr. Shah's verse of the day is coming to us from James chapter 1 and verse 2. My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces peace. Patients.
When, not if. That's right. Not, not just, you know, just occasionally, if a trial comes along, or if you see one lurking, when you encounter various trials. That's right. There's a purpose.
That's right. Now, it may seem a little odd for people because we were just talking about Job, and all of a sudden, we are in the book of James.
So what's the connection?
Well, did you know that James is the only book in the New Testament that mentions Job? And by the way, the only other book that mentions Job is Ezekiel. Wow, I didn't realize that. There are probably two books in the whole Bible. The whole Bible that mention Job.
Wow. Nobody else talks about Job other than Ezekiel and James. Wow. And James chapter five, verse eleven says, Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord, that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
Now that that should Tell us the connection there is between Job and James, or the connection that James saw with Job. And so we're going to spend some time in James side by side as we talk about the book of Job. Yeah. It's kind of, it's kind of cool because, you know, you've got this idea of suffering and you see it very clearly lived out in Job and then you hear about it in James where it's being spoken to us by James. But it's kind of, it's kind of interesting in that, you know, James is not telling us, just like you said, it's guaranteed that you're going to do it.
But he says, blessed are those who endure. We tend to think blessed are those who don't have to deal with this kind of thing, who just do the right things, who check off the right boxes. And then God's not going to send those troubles your way. We also think about suffering as just something to make it through. Like it's just an inconvenience we need to get to the other side of.
But every obstacle, every hurdle, every trial, every tribulation that we encounter in life, there's a purpose. God supernaturally works that together for our good and for his glory. That's right. Well, James begins chapter one, verse one with James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, keep in mind, He was the half-brother of Jesus. Yeah, so that's a significant line right there. If I was the half-brother of Jesus, I'd be dropping that in the first few words. Right. By the way, half-brother Jesus, right here, just so you know.
Add a little credibility. Speaking myself up a little bit. Yeah, I wouldn't be established a little street cred. But I mean, he is saying he's a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ. Means I am my brother's servant.
I don't have a lot of brothers out there who would say that about their own. You know, it's like I'm his servant. But in this situation, James got to know his brother Jesus in a whole different light after the resurrection because Jesus paid him a visit. Mm-hmm. You know, when he went and saw many who uh his disciples, the twelve, Peter, five hundred, and then he also went to James and revealed himself.
And I think that may have Brought about his conversion to the gospel because previously his family, Jesus' family, did not receive him. And then James became the head of the church in Jerusalem. The Mother Church. From where everything went out until. I would say one thirty five A D when Jerusalem was banned to the Jewish people.
They were dispersed. They they they fled the homeland, had to, you know, driven out of the homeland. From that point on, Uh Christians were no longer living in Jerusalem. They may still have been here and there, but overall Not allowed, but James was the first. Pastor of that church.
Yeah. And what a legacy, what a turnaround for somebody who didn't at first receive his brother as the Messiah. Like, come on, like, really? It's a complete character from a man James. Right.
And then he, you know, to not only. To convert to Christianity, but to be an author in the New Testament and to be the head of the church in Jerusalem. I mean, that's huge. Yeah. And he's writing, it says right here in James chapter 1, verse 1, to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad.
Now, I got a question, Dr. Shah, because I thought 10 of the tribes were gone by this point. Right, right. But I mean, Ten of the tribes, of course, they were all dispersed. but at that time at least they knew where they were.
Okay. Yeah. So when we say those ten tribes gone forever, we're talking about in present day.
So by that time the ten tribes were still recognized. Yes, yes.
Okay, okay. You can go in certain parts, like say Afghanistan. Maybe I'm I'm stepping Uh too far here, but it may be worth discussing. Sure, sure. Uh in Afghanistan, you know, you will you you come across graves or cemeteries with Jewish um uh let me back that up.
Not Jewish, but uh Hebrew writings. Wow. Yeah. And uh some of the pushtoons Claim, they don't claim, they don't like that actually. They have one of the dispersed tribe genealogies.
Really? Their names are very Hebrew. I was under the see, that's interesting. I was under the impression that Assyrian exile happens and within maybe three or four generations, they're wiped out, they're gone. But even by James's time, that was what, like a few hundred years after, they were still recognizable as the 12 tribes.
Oh, yes, yes. It's not like they were gone in the sense of they ceased to exist. Right. No, they were dispersed. Gotcha.
Okay. But and they never came back to the promised land because other peoples occupied it, the Samaritans to the north, and then other peoples moved in into the Galilee. Area.
So after that first exile, the northern part of Israel was occupied with all kinds of other peoples. That's crazy. Because we think I mean, maybe maybe we don't rank order the exiles, but I tend to think that the Babylonian exile, that's like the really, really big one. But that was more from the south, the southern part, Judah. That's Jerusalem.
Being the main city they attacked, but Judah, that southern. And Benjamin, the southern kingdom is what we're talking about. Right, because that's what I'm saying. Like, I've, I've, I, I, I, I guess the reality is the Assyrian exile had a bigger impact, right? Oh, 100%.
Yeah, because that's what I was saying. Like, I usually think that the Babylonian one was the big one, but it seems like the Assyrian one, the ramifications are not going to be restored until the end of time, right? Exactly. That's insane. Yeah.
I mean, like, I'm sort of putting this together, and it's clicking in my mind now that the Assyrian exile is the one that really. quote unquote destroyed. Israel or see, Jesus was gonna going to come to the l through the line of Judah.
So we put a lot more significance on Judah or the Jewish people because of the Messianic lineage. because even though those ten tribes were important, We sort of, if you read Jacob's blessings on his sons on his deathbed, you know that Judah is going to be the one. Yeah, there is a clear frontrunner in terms of like messianic. Absolutely.
So all I know this is this is kind of getting away from James, but all Jewish people today. Or the vast majority of Jewish people today, we would say that they're from the line of Judah. Yes. Gotcha.
They are coming from the southern kingdom. Got it. They are part of the. The Babylonian exile, people who went, some stayed, some came back. Either way, they are the Jewish people.
Now, in the Assyrian exile, many of them were also scattered into Persia.
So Some of those people met some of their brethren a couple hundred years later who were also exiled there. Mm-hmm. you know Persia Iran, modern day Iran, has had the people of Israel. For centuries, twenty seven hundred years. You think some of them are those lost tribes?
Oh, definitely they are. They claim to be. 'Cause they didn't Oh, they claim it. Yeah. But see, now in in i in Iran, unfortunately, ever since the takeover by this Islamic regime and you know, when they they exiled The Shah of Iran and a lot of Jewish people and And Israel background people.
Not Israeli as in Israeli citizens today because that's that's different. But Israel background people as in the dispersed no the northern ten tribes people They lived in Iran for Thousands of years, right? Twenty seven hundred years. But it got so bad that many of them had to move. Yeah.
Wow. Many of them had to leave. Yeah. And even in India, some of those lost tribes came because you find Names of towns and cities and rivers, which are very Hebrew. Yeah.
All this evidence of the dispersion, all this evidence of the Jews being scattered, or the people of Israel being scattered. And as I mentioned about the Pashtuns of Afghanistan, they definitely have that background.
Now, years ago, and I know we're way off the topic now. No, it's okay. I just thought of the perfect segue. I was part of the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad. Years ago, some of the Israeli scientists and professionals went there to help them establish their DNA lineage and genome and all that stuff.
And it seemed like everything was going great, but all of a sudden they put a halt to it. In Afghanistan said, nope, that's it. We want you gone. And so they had to cut short all their research and pull out. I wish they had continued.
Yeah. Who knows what they would have found? Yeah, no. And then think about the Ethiopian Jewish people. Uh but again, they claim to be coming f Through Solomonic line.
So that's again the The tribe of Judah. It'd be really cool if you could put on like a pair of like God glasses and like see the people of today and see their ancestry and see, oh my goodness, that's actually the tribe of like Manasseh or from Issachar. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So so it's kind of funny too, because you think about what James is writing to them, right? To the 12 tribes who are scattered abroad, count it all joy when you fall into various trials. Think about like as you are currently experiencing that or like in the future, like you have no clue what's even coming for you, like way down the line in 2025, the state of where your nation is or even what it will have to go through until you get to those end times. But I think that that. That word win is really our sticking point here because he's saying it's a guarantee you will fall into trials.
Right, right. So, whether he's talking to those 12 tribes. Or he's talking to us, or to the Christians at the time, or to us. The point is very simple: my brethren counted all joy when. Not if.
In other words, trials are inevitable. He also starts the letter off like with a solid punch. You know what I mean? There's none of this like meandering, like, I hope everybody's doing well and give my regards to so-and-so. I, your brother James, write this to you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I've been hearing that things are going well. And I just want to give you some encouragement. Like, I think of like the email, like the devotional emails that I'll send out to the worship team or that you'll send to the church. And it's kind of getting there. But James is like, hey, when you go through trials, just count it joy.
It's like, man, that's a strong start. Yeah. Was there like a specific thing he's referencing, or is it he, or is he just saying, hey, this is what life is going to be like?
Well, I mean, by the time James is writing, a lot of these, these dispersed tribes are not just dispersed people, these are dispersed. Tribes And among them, those who had become Christians. Those are the people he's writing to because. Just the regular dispersed people would never claim To be the bondservants of Jesus Christ. Of course, bondservants of God, but Jesus Christ is more specific.
So these are the Christians among the dispersed tribes. And they're going through difficulties. Yeah. This is something I just thought about, and I'm kind of presenting it as a joke, but also an actual question. He says that knowing the testing of your faith produces patience.
People like myself, like I've said it many times on the show, is that I struggle with impatience. I think it's one of the core things that I don't have a lot of is patience. Do you think that means that I haven't been tested enough? And I know that's a crass way to ask that, but like, is that evidence that maybe there's maybe God has more trials down the line to produce that patience? I mean, yeah, patience there means endurance, it means staying power.
Mm-hmm. And when you face difficulties, the natural response is to get out of it. To to find and we should. hands on fire that you leave it in the fire to pull it out. Yeah.
If you can help yourself, help yourself. don't like unnecessarily Like hold the exploding sprite can in your hand. Just let it get all over your laugh and look confused. I wonder what I'll do about this now. You want to tell the story of the shirt?
Yeah, we were in D.C. one time and we were on the metro. It was kind of early-ish, like 9-10 in the morning, but I was sleepy and I had a. I had a bottle of Sprite. And I, which is weird.
I never drink spray. I have no clue why I had it, but I opened it and it fizzed up and exploded in my lap all over my shorts. And I don't know why, but I just like looked at Dr. Shah and I was like. As the sprite is overflowing, as it's pouring out, he was like, Move the bottle, move the bottle.
I was like, Huh? Oh, and I just like moved the bottle, but it was way too late. And Dr. Shepherd was like, You didn't react at all. Like, it exploded, and I was just like.
I did the same thing one time. I don't know if Elliot want me to tell. I might cut this story, but I did the same thing one time when Gavin was a little, little baby. He. He spat up, but when I say spat up, I mean it was a little lie.
He vomited all over Ellie, all over the bed, and I was just like. Huh? What just happened? What do we do with that? And she got so angry.
She was like, get up, get the towel. I was like, oh. Yeah. I should. I'll do that.
It just confused me. Anyway, yes, yes. Don't, I know what you're saying. Don't leave your stuff there. Like, I'll just get it out of the way.
It's okay to get out of that trial, that situation. But here, I think it's more of it when you know you cannot get out of it. When it's a sickness that you cannot just shake it off, or if it's a health concern, that you cannot just say, Hey, I'm just going to snap out of it.
Well, you cannot. If it's like, you know, like I've had. You know, a shoulder pain. I cannot just snap my fingers and come out of it. It's not happening.
I tried it, trust me. I try to twist and turn to make it go away. It's not going away like that easily.
So, what do you do in those kind of situations, whether it's physical pain or financial struggle? You cannot snap and add. thousands of dollars in your bank account. What if it's a relationship problems where feelings are hurt and miscommunications have happened and things got said and now you're in this place? You cannot just say, okay, end it now.
You can say that if you want to, it's not ending. Yeah. So. Let patience have its perfect work. The word there for perfect also means full work, means let it do what it needs to do.
Let it be complete. Yeah. Again, if you're sick. Go to the doctor. Get the best medical help.
If relationship problems are going on, talk to somebody. Talk to a pastor, talk to a counselor, especially one who is coming from a Christian perspective. Talk to people who can give you wisdom. But Don't try to wiggle your way out of it. Don't try to sweep it under the rug.
Don't try to pretend like there isn't a problem. Let it have its perfect full work. Mm-hmm. Because in doing that what will happen? that you may be Fully Uh but let Endurance have its full work that she may be fully developed.
God wants to grow you through this. Going back to Job for a minute. You know, Job maintained his righteousness up. to the end. Yeah.
Even when his friends said Job, you must be doing something wrong. That's why bad things are happening to you. Job didn't fall for that and say, Let me go and check. May maybe you're right. Oh, wait, yeah, this one sacrifice I forgot.
That's why I'm not being blessed. He didn't do that. He maintained his integrity. Even though Elihu, who was coming from a kind of a biblical perspective, he was saying, Job, you're too full of yourself. You're too being too self-righteous.
And Job, you need to humble yourself. And Job was like, I'm not being self-righteous. I'm being exactly who I am. I did not do anything wrong. I don't understand why God is allowing this to happen to me.
I didn't do anything wrong. And Elihi was fussing at him and saying, you need to calm down. You need to back up and look at yourself. You have problems, you have faults. Pride is your fault.
Yeah, and Job said, No, no, no. What I'm saying here is what James would say is Job. Hung on till the end, and in the process. He saw God. Because if he had given up and said, okay, fine, tell me what I did wrong.
He would have proved the enemy. Enemy right. And that last part or that middle part is really the key that we miss. Because we, like you said, Ryan, we think it's like he hung on till the end. And then God got him through it.
Right. But no, it's in the process he saw God. Right, right. And he didn't say that, okay, fine, I need to humble myself and allow for some mistakes in my life because I am. I'm not, you know, I don't see everything.
No, he said no, no, no. And so that hanging on was more, he was hanging on to his integrity. The only place where Job got in trouble was he doubted God. He repented for doubting God. And that part we all need to do.
And in that repenting, he began to trust God even more. Doesn't James say something about that, about doubting in verse 6? Yeah, he does. I mean, I think this book goes. hand in hand With the book of Job.
Yeah. It's so incredible to see how God, in his wisdom, you know, people talk all the time about like, I can't believe in a God who allows bad things to happen. Additionally, I can't believe in a God who allowed bad things to happen to good people. But isn't it more beautiful to think that God allowed free will because he wants us to choose him? He wants us to love him.
There has to be free will in order for there to be a relationship. Otherwise, I'm just an automaton that's been pre-programmed. But in doing so, the world is opened up to. Evil, it's opened up to sin, it's opened up to disobedience.
However, our God, in his goodness, and in his Perfect care and perfect will for us takes that bad and works good through it. That's a much more beautiful truth than God has made a perfect plastic world that I get to play in. Mm-hmm. That's that, that to me is just, it's such a comfort to know that even in the bad that I experience, even in the pain that I experience, God has a better purpose. God has a better plan.
Yeah, we tend to think that God is the originator of that pain because he's the one allowing it. Like if he's got that, and that's something that gets people hung up so much is that if he has the power to stop it, he's morally obligated to do so. But what if that badness, what if that pain is going to cause something good in your life? Could it be there's a greater purpose, a greater good to be achieved by going through that? Isn't he now morally obligated to allow it?
You know what I mean? If it's better for you that you go through this, even though it's painful, then isn't he morally obligated to let you go through it, to allow it? And I think that's, we talked about that with Job. Look how much better the world, Western culture, Western society, Christianity is because of the book of Job. Right.
Yeah. So going back to James for a moment. James begins his epistle by telling us that trials are inevitable. Trials are unpredictable and trials are variable. but if you hang in there Let patience have its perfect work so that you may be Perfect.
complete, lacking nothing, that she will be fully developed.
Okay, okay, I get it. What do I do in the meantime?
Well, verse 5 tells us. It says, If any of you lacks wisdom. I mean, that's what Job needed. And he had some counselors come to him trying to bring him wisdom, but they brought all the wrong wisdom. It was the best.
that the Mesopotamians could offer It was the best that the Egyptians could offer. but it still fell short of what Job needed And also, what you and I need when we go through trials. I guess that's what James says: if any of you lacks wisdom. Don't ask your friends. Don't ask your three closest friends.
Yeah, don't do that. Let him ask of God.
Now, there's a big difference between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge comes from information. Knowledge is something you can find in TV magazines. Um, College education. Wisdom, Warren Weersby said it this way.
Someone has said that knowledge is the ability to take things apart, while wisdom is the ability to put them back together. That's I like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, um, it comes from education, as I mentioned, schools, colleges, uh, and all of that, information.
education and even experience will fail. Wisd wisdom will never be wrong. In time, knowledge gets updated. Wisdom doesn't. Wisdom, knowledge comes from experience, the hard knocks of life.
Right. There might be some wisdom through life's experiences, but it's still not wisdom. Right. Okay. Knowledge through life experiences, but still not wisdom because life is unpredictable.
And someone said experience is the best teacher, but the tuition is high. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. You think about all the ways that life can knock you down.
And, you know, we do say that it teaches us a lot of those things. But at the end of the day, that doesn't mean that it's wise. Life can teach me not to trust people. I don't know that that's wise. It doesn't mean it's wise.
Wisdom, on the other hand, is the insight into our human circumstances and situations that enables us to make the right decisions. Knowledge comes from success, how to climb the ladder. If success was wisdom, Then the actors and the actresses in Hollywood should be the wisest people in the world. Great points. But you know, unfortunately, if you can just because you can play a wonderful husband on T V or in a movie does not mean you are one in real life.
Most of them, after twenty, thirty years of marriage, they walk away and you go. Wow. What happened? Wisdom, on the other hand, is what you need when you are tired of the self-help books. Whether it's about raising children or changing bad habits, wisdom is what you need when you cannot throw money at your problems.
I think that's a great point. Wisdom, talking about marital problems or whatever it is, y no amount of money will save that. Wisdom is what you need when the road of experience runs out. Yeah, and conflicts like with people in your life, you know, I don't know, I don't know what to do here. I haven't been down this road.
What is the wise thing to do? Yeah. People ask me that question. I've asked people that question. What is the right thing to do?
And people with wisdom can help guide you.
So Hopefully we can keep James and Job side by side, or Job and James side by side, because I think we're going to learn a lot. Yes. Yeah, I think so. Holding both of them. I mean, you need both.
You need the example of Job in walking through those trials, but you need James as a reminder that there's a purpose in those trials. You do kind of development to be had in the midst of that suffering. Yeah, you do kind of see them as two sides of the same coin where Job is the show and James is the tell. And you need both. You know what I mean?
Yeah, that's right. Guys, make sure you join us next time. We're going to dig further into this conversation. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And if today was your first time listening to us, we just want to say, hey, we love you.
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It is available on Spotify. Make sure that you go and subscribe to that, add it to your library, listen to it as you're driving around, as you're doing your morning routine. It's a great worship set, acoustic worship, and it's going to get you in the right frame of mind for your day. And the apologetics conference here at Clearview Church is coming up on March the 28th. Registration is live now.
Head on over to clearviewbc.org for more information. You're not going to want to miss this. Dr. Shaw is going to be speaking as well as other scholars from around the world. On the importance of textual criticism and how it impacts the English Bible that you and I hold.
We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Cleavy Today.
