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So stay hydrated, stay healthy, and without further ado, let's start the show. Imagine you walk into a pizza place with a group of guys that some of them you know, some of them you're meeting for the first time, and within 20 minutes, You are sharing the gospel. It feels like all the lights are on you. You've completely forgotten everything you planned to say, but this person's eternity may hang in the balance. That's right.
Today's episode is all about sharing your faith, the importance of evangelism, and how to think on your feet and direct that conversation back to Jesus. Coming up right now on ClearBeautoday. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill.
I'm John Galantis, and we are here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, you know that intro was not just theater, that is something that actually happened. To the three of us.
Absolutely. I'm excited about this subject today because a lot of us. know people or we come across people who are not. Believers. They are not saved.
They are not Christians. They have never been born again. I'm saying it all kinds of ways to impact everybody out there who has a different designation for what that does that mean to be saved or to be a believer. But we don't do anything about it. We walk on by.
That's right. And today's episode is to challenge us. to educate us, to encourage us to share Our faith in Christ. That's right. And equipping you guys to be able to do that, all of you listeners, is what this show exists to do.
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So Dr. Shao, we're walking into a pizza shop, right? And a lot of these guys that we're with are guys that we've only met that day. And then all of a sudden, a young man says, you know, I actually am not a believer. And everybody just kind of freezes.
Do you want to just like rewind, just do that like movie rewind thing? Yeah. Back to how it led up to that point. I mean, you pretty much said it. We walked in there and we were.
Sort of focused on other things. Like, we're going to talk about the radio show upcoming. There's a conference coming up next year, next spring, called NRB, which is National Religious Broadcasters Conference or Convention. And so, we were like, so focused on that we're going to get these details out of the way, kind of ask a few questions about is this year going to be like last year, who's going, how much, all that stuff. It's like a big business like yeah it was like uh and then cut you chat about this then the other two Hey.
someone's eternal destiny Hangs in the balance. Right. It really did feel like there was one of those record scratch noises, like you're having a conversation, all of a sudden, rrrrrr.
Well, the tone shifts. And you may, if you're listening, you probably will find yourself, if you're doing the Lord's work, in fact, you will find yourself in a situation like this where you're there to talk business, you're there to talk strategy, you're there to talk like partnership and tips, and let's try this and let's try that. And then all of a sudden, the tone is completely different. Yeah, you can just assume the Holy Spirit has another plan. Yeah, absolutely.
And so then you've got this moment of uh-oh. What in the world do I do? I've forgotten everything that I know. When I'm around Christians and I'm around the people who think like me, talk like me, believe like me, I know the things to say. But all of a sudden, now, my mind is suddenly blank.
I don't know anything in the Bible. I don't even know what the Bible is. And so you might be in that situation, and you might, you don't want to find yourself in the position where you're like, someone else, please lead. Please take the lead. Please evangelize.
So, Dr. Shah, if you find yourself in that situation like we did. What do you do? What do you say? I would say to begin with, just say a quick prayer, a quick prayer to say, and I did.
I don't know if y'all did it, but I prayed for that individual. I said, God, open his heart, open his mind, at least help him to take that step. Closer to Christ because this is a supernaturally ordained moment. Absolutely. Amen.
Because we came with a very different plan. That was not on my radar. Same. I mean, sometimes, you know, I have that intuition, or having been there, done that, I can, I know what's, you know, we're going to do this, and then we're going to talk about that and this.
Okay, I know which way we're going to go.
So I'm kind of prepping myself for. Wait. It's nothing like that.
So, in those moments, just know that the Holy Spirit of God is working and He is speaking to someone's heart. No, listen, He's speaking to every heart. Right. Now, does everybody respond? No.
Why? Because th they're hard-hearted. Right? They have a choice. People don't believe in choice, and I'm like, no, God is always drawing you.
But you have to respond to that drawing. Yeah. Not compliant, I don't want to say it. A lot of the things, the walls that people put up, right, are very scientific based. And it was no or quote, quote unquote, scientific based.
What they're saying is they can't reconcile God and the story of Jesus and the narrative that we read in the Bible with what we see and observe in the real world. And I think with this individual that we talked to, that was certainly the case. And so a lot of times, I think our listeners will find themselves in situations where they're having to explain supernatural things. And so. Do we feel like the burden is on us to explain all this stuff away?
Or can we say, listen, you know, there's resources out there. Our pastor, like, you were able to. You know, share a lot of that stuff because you've preached on it, you know, your content series. But, you know, how much of it do we need to know beforehand? Is it ever okay to say, listen, I don't have all those answers, but I know those answers are out there?
I think there is a good. Place to educate yourself. That's why churches should have. Apologetics. Messages, every sermon should have some apologetics element.
If you remember, recently I preached on Job. And in Job, I talked about dinosaurs. I talked about The age of the earth, I talked about ice age, I talked about things that a person who is not coming from a biblical worldview and is aware of all these different things, he miss go wait. You talking about that? 'Cause I thought church folks were Totally unaware of these kinds of scientific discussions.
And then they go, oh, you do know about these things, and you do have an answer. Maybe I may not agree with it. Maybe it doesn't fit in my timeline, but it Somehow it works for you. I want to hear. Make sure apologetics is included.
And preaching, teaching, so that in those moments you can You can be better prepared. Yeah. I think you do a wonderful job of both for us as leadership team here at Clearview and for just the average churchgoer here. You do a great job of equipping us for those conversations because people will all of a sudden raise these issues of science or history or. What have you?
And rather than just kind of clamming up, which I feel like a lot of times happens to people, you feel like you're on the spot and you feel like you're the one that has to kind of mount the defense. We can navigate those conversations. We can listen and hear what people are saying rather than just giving them a pre-packaged, like, here's my elevator pitch. Yeah. And I think there is a place for that pre-packaged elevator speech.
I don't want to discount that. You know, I said something about apologetics, and I wanted to read for us 1 Peter 3, verse 15. It says, But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts. And always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you. A reason for the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
Always be ready. I think that's where a lot of us fail because we like to think we're ready. Yeah. Right. Until the moment comes up.
I know I was that way. I like it. Definitely when he said that, you know, I'm actually not a believer, my mind just shut down. Yeah. Because you're so used to talking to believers day in and day.
And the work that we do, you just talk to believers. And I was like, oh. Yeah. So definitely, I would say apologetics, be ready with that. Secondly, the pre-packaged stuff, it's good to have.
And I saw that being used a couple of times, but it's not always the place to lead off. I think that's what you're referring to. Yes. You know, not the place to begin. It's like, hey, so let me ask you three questions.
No, you can have a good conversation.
So tell me a little bit about why You're reluctant to receive Christ. What is your hesitation? to give your life to Jesus Christ. What are your ideas or what exposure have you had? to faith.
And we can listen, we can talk, and then we can even share our testimony.
So, let me tell you what happened to me. I grew up in a Christian home and very early in my life I realized that I needed Jesus Christ to be my Savior, my King. And I gave my life to Him. But then as I began to grow and mature in my faith and in my teenage years, I really submitted my life to Christ. And I even followed through in baptism.
So that happened. Fast forward, I came to America, had a very different plan in mind, but God had a different plan. He called me in the ministry, and when He called me in the ministry, that's when I resubmitted my life. Again, this is not Res getting saved, resubmitted my life to follow. Christ and It's been quite a ride.
So, that has been my testimony. But, anyways, so be ready to give some kind of a testimony that you have.
Okay, I hear your story. This is my story. Then we can draw them closer to to how they can also respond. And have a testimony. That's a great point.
You don't have to jump right into a debate. You know what I mean? You don't have to start off confrontational. Yeah. And I've seen you do that many times, Dr.
Shaw, where you start. I mean, how can someone argue against your own testimony? No one can argue against a changed life. Absolutely. And if your life has been changed by Jesus, then that's at least some common ground that the other person has to identify with.
And I think a conversation helps, you know, lower those boundaries, lower those walls, helps disarm people. And, you know, let's just get to know one another. Let me hear your story. Let me hear where you're coming from. And then I can know how to, you know, winsomely navigate that conversation and direct you to the truth of the gospel.
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Now, let's get started. But the whole time, whether it is in that one-seated appointment, or a neighbor that I see on a regular basis, or somebody that I see at the gym, and I've been seeing them for a year, in all of those conversations, I am praying the whole time: Lord, help me guide this conversation to Christ. How can I Bring Christ up. And it's difficult sometimes when, especially when they know you're a pastor. They will joke, laugh, have a good time.
But they will tiptoe around that issue. Like No one's business. I mean, they will avoid those issues. And look at this bottle right here. They will change subjects.
Ah, you know, this pen right here. I tell you what, this pen writes really good. I'm like, what are you talking about? A pen? Yeah.
I'm talking about your salvation. But they will change subjects. I got uncomfortable and claimed up real quick.
So I'm going to try to get the attention off of me. I think a lot of times what we see is that people are not ready to commit their life to something that they quote unquote don't know to be true. Like if I'm not fully 100% bought in. uh then I just can't commit my life to it because if I do that then I don't mean it. And Dr.
Sha, you and I were talking a little bit earlier today or this morning about Mark 9:24, where this man comes to Jesus and he believes, but he's like, Lord, help my unbelief. And I don't know if I'm maybe misreading this, but to me, that says, I'm not fully bought in, but I want to follow you. Yeah, I'm trying. But I have Some fear. I have some hesitation.
I don't know where it's coming from. Maybe that's the way I'm built. Maybe circumstances in life. But I'm trying to place my faith in you. Help my unbelief.
Can you do that and still have some doubts in your mind? Oh, yeah. Doubts are not. uh contrary to faith you can have doubts Even while you're giving your life to Jesus Christ. Not about Jesus, right?
Okay, don't misunderstand me. Doubts about creation, doubts about. I don't know. Science and Christianity, you can have all kinds of doubts. Doubts about, so.
You know, where did Cain get his wife? All these things are they're fine. Right. You can have questions. I have questions right now.
I study all the time, and I have questions about. I don't know how does this square with this passage. But my faith is strong enough to know that it does. I just need To catch up with What's there? Yeah.
I think that right there is such an important piece for people to hear. I have doubts about this. I have doubts about how these things reconcile together. But by faith, I know that they do. I just have to find that conclusion.
And it's there. I just need to arrive at that. I think that's so helpful for people because a lot of times people will throw that up as a barrier. Oh, I have doubts, so I can't give my life back. Like it won't mean anything.
It won't mean anything if I don't mean it all with my whole heart. And I think one of the things I struggle with is. There's this, like, there's this fishing, this fishing game of how much reel do I cast? How much slack do I cut? Like, I want to give you permission to doubt.
But, like you said, some things you, you, you. You have to be, you have to like fully believe. And there's some things you have to, so like. Like, for instance, with this person is saying, you know, I really don't want to give my life to Christ right now because I'm not convinced of this, you want to say, well, yeah, I get that. And you still can.
But then there's that line of where do we draw the line where it's like, no, this you have to believe. You must be on board to make sure that I totally agree. And that. is the gospel. That is the gospel.
What is the gospel?
So, you know, we know Romans chapter 10 and verse 9. I mean, that we know by heart that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. I mean, it's very simple. That's the gospel. Romans chapter 10.
versus Yeah. And then of course Verse 10 says, For the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. That itself is the gospel.
Now, what is the response to the gospel? What exactly is the gospel? I mean, that's the next question. Right. What do you guys think?
So That Jesus, that I'm a sinner. Jesus Christ came, he died for my sins, he was buried. He rose on the third day.
Now he's risen, he's ascended into heaven, and he helps me live. He's given us the Holy Spirit. He helps me live my Christian life as I submit to him. Suspect that maybe I left something out. No, I mean, that's it.
1 Corinthians chapter 15, verse 1. It says, Moreover, brethren. Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preach to you, which also you received, in which you stand, by which also you are saved. If you hold fast that word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain, and what is the gospel? for I delivered to you first of all that which I also Received.
Means this is not a body of truth that Paul conjured. He is passing down what he has been passed down. That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. That's the first statement. of the gospel.
Christ Died for our sins according. To the scripture according to the Old Testament. Prophecies and promises. And that he was buried. That's also very important.
We don't emphasize the burial part of things. But burial signifies The finality of his death. Burial signifies the fulfillment of prophecies. Almost like a seal. It's a seal.
The death is an official death. Yes. And burial also has some deeper meaning. about my death and burial. Because my whole life has been buried with Christ.
He didn't just die in his. lying there stinking, it got buried. And the third part is in verse 4, and that he rose again. the third day according to the scriptures. That is the gospel in which you stand that saves us.
But then something else is mentioned in verse 5, and that he was seen by. I often say it was and he was seen by many, but who are the many? Peter, Cephas, the twelve. After that he was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that he was seen by James, then by all the apostles.
Then last of all, he was seen by me also as by one born out of due time. That's the greatest. That's the great I I love this so much. I love when Paul does that mic drop at the end. Like at the very end, if you don't believe any of that, I saw him.
I saw him. That's the coolest way to. He could not have ended that cooler. Yeah. I've always loved that.
Sorry, that's a little aside. Paul's an expert at literary structure and rhetoric and how to write and how to argue.
So, I mean, you would expect mic drop moments from him at the end of passages. I haven't read every single one of Paul's writings, but of all the ones that I've read, that's the ultimate mic drop moment. Oh, yeah. I got to give it up for Paul on that one. Absolutely.
And that's the gospel. Mm-hmm. This is the gospel. 1 Corinthians chapter 15 is the gospel. Romans chapter 10 is the action.
To that gospel. What do we do when we're sharing the gospel with somebody or we're sharing our testimony? We're trying to lead someone to. to Christ, to salvation. And they Just They're not they're not Catching it.
They're not they're not they just say hey, that's not for me How do we respond? Because a lot of times, when that's happened to me in the past, there's this very real sense of like, oh, I messed up. I failed. I dropped the ball at the finish line, and now they're going to hell. But if you go back to that pizza parlour, With this young man, I loved it because different individuals presented the gospel to him in different ways.
One presented him more from the creation, God's existence side of things. And I appreciated that because. He was trying to say, hey, look, there is a God. And he said, Oh, yeah. Initially, this young man began by saying he is an atheist.
Yes. And then he says, Oh, maybe I'm no, I think I'm an agnostic. Yeah, he said, He said almost immediately, but I do believe that God exists. Right. So we were like, Wait, that's a huge leap.
A person next to me said that, he's like, That's a huge leap. And by the way, by the way, I loved that it was not a debate where we like mocked him, like, all right, which is it? He was like, Hey, that's great. You just made a ton of progress in 20 seconds. Yeah, that's powerful.
Oh, yeah, he went very quickly from atheist to agnostic. That's a huge shift in the conversation. And then, and then someone asked, Well, do you think Jesus was a historical figure? Yeah, he existed. Yeah.
I'm like, man, we're getting closer and closer by the millisecond. And that's where somebody approached him more from that. You know, evidence of Christ and his existence. Which is a different angle. And then somebody else approached it more on the basis of like evangelism explosion, DJ M.
Kennedy. If you were to die tonight and stand before God in heaven. And God were to say, Why should I let you in? What would you say? Yeah.
And that That was a whole different approach. I grew up on that approach, or I went to school and I studied that approach and I used it. Many times in downtown Atlanta. But talking about Paul saying that he died according to the scriptures, that was the approach that you took where you just encouraged this young man and said, Listen, if I were you, I would go back and read the prophecies. I would read the prophecies about Jesus.
And I thought it was encouraging because it's like, it's not a pressure of like, hey, You will go to hell. Listen, take the time. I mean, you're not guaranteed this time. Right. But for the time you're willing to risk, study.
Take dive into it. Yeah, my approach was more, I felt like he was doubting. That Jesus was God. He was afraid to take that leap.
So he believes there is a God, he believes God created things. Um I don't know where he stood on intelligent design or Uh, long age of the earth.
So, I didn't want to get into all that because that can be distracting. I agree, right? Because whether you want to take the long age or whether you believe it's in six. 24-hour days, which what I take, I'm not going to use that right now. Right.
Right. Because that's going to get. The discussion of track, and before you know it, we're arguing over things that are. I believe they're very important. Yeah.
I believe that whether if you believe in the six 24-hour days versus millions of years, I think that's a very important issue because it's going to impact other things.
So I'm not saying for a single moment that this is a secondary, tertiary matter. Right. Because secondary, tertiary issues usually end up impacting the primary issues. We've talked about that on the show before, that no matter what, where you land on different doctrinal issues, there's no to categorize them as like primary, secondary, tertiary is really a misnomer because everything is so interconnected. What you believe about one, if you start to poke at it enough, is going to impact like dominoes what you believe about other things.
But I think that's a wise take. And I appreciate you saying that, Dr. Shaw, because we can handle that conversation and it's an important conversation and we need to have that conversation. But let's talk about salvation first. I think like for me, and maybe you guys didn't see it like this, but I see it and I kind of saw the conversation as like those are.
Important and also fun conversations to have among like people who are sitting around and talking. But right now, this is a code red. Like someone's eternity is on the line. You know what I mean? Like sitting in this pizza, this pizza shop right now, we can have fun and we can talk this through and we can eat pizza.
But if you go outside and you get, you know, someone T-bones you in the intersection, you're done. You're done. It's like triage when you're in a hospital and a doctor is treating a patient. Like the patient has a broken leg and the patient has a gash on their forehead and they're having a heart attack. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The broken leg is important. We've got to set the broken leg and we've got to make sure this wound is closed up so it doesn't get infected. But he's having a heart attack. Like we got to, we got to make sure he doesn't crash on the table. Absolutely.
Let's get that stable and then we can handle all those other issues with a Scooby-Doo bandit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then that's um Very, very important. And that's why. I brought it back to Hey, maybe read The prophecies about Jesus.
Many of them were given Thousands of years earlier.
Some hundreds and hundreds of years before his coming.
So, maybe some good advice for our listeners listening to this is identify the hang-up, just like you said, what is it keeping you from. from and then and then you can attack it from that angle because if i'm trying to attack it like from well He can't reconcile evolution, but he's not, he's really his concern is: I don't think Jesus is God. Then, like you said, the evolution creation debate. It's important, but it's not for this moment. Yeah.
That's right. That's right. I think. What it did for me... To be there that day was very providential because it once again brought me back to the basics.
Share your faith. We can be doing a thousand and one things and miss the most important thing, which is to lead people to Jesus Christ. That's right. If you don't lead people to Jesus Christ, in time, what you're doing, those thousand and one things will become. Um Very how do I say it?
Uh th they they will seem Um uh uh uh confusing and and if a storm comes in your life It'll be very easy for you to drop. Your net? Mm-hmm. I'm talking about like a fishing analogy. You'll drop your net and leave.
So. Always be in The reaching lost souls stage of life, okay, a mode of life. Always be in that mode of, hey, can I share the gospel with this person? Can I talk to this person about Christ? Because if we, as people who work in a church setting, We lose touch with that then in time Making a video, doing a show, preparing a sermon, talking to the students, worship service, videos, whatever, in time it'll become a burden.
And you may even find yourself very disillusioned because you'll be like, I do all this for what, man? I mean, I just, yeah, I mean, it gives me some joy, but. I don't know. Yeah. The joy comes When you see a lost sinner coming into God's kingdom, that is the joy.
Amen. Now, praise God, and clearly we see children receiving Christ as their savior. We've even seen adults give their heart to Christ. And so there is a joy, but I think it needs to be a whole lot more. Yeah.
I agree. On a regular basis, we need to be sharing the gospel and winning lost souls. If we don't practice that, if we say you go out there and do it, we tell our students to you go out there and do it, we tell our people, you go out there and do it, we tell our You know, our workers, you share the gospel, and but we don't go into highways and the byways. Think about what kind of people we are. We're telling them, you go out there in the dark alleys.
I'm staying right here safe, but I'll tell you how to do this. 100%. Yeah. It's it's challenging because it reminds me of uh that passage where You know, Paul says, imitate me as I imitate Christ. If we ourselves are not willing to go out and share, and we're not willing to make ourselves vulnerable and Put our testimony out there or share the gospel with people, navigate those uncomfortable conversations at times.
How can we expect other people to do that? How can we expect them to listen to us when we tell them to do that? It's like a farmer. He works and works and works and works in that field from sun up to sundown. He is out there just, I mean, backbreaking.
blood, sweat, and tears work. But he never gets to eat anything. that he plants Or harvests. Never. There's never It's like What do you do it for?
Oh, it makes m mm makes a living. I mean, it pays my bills.
Some point in time he's gonna say There's an easier way to do that. Wasn't it worth it? There's an easier way to make a living than doing this. Amen. But if that farmer.
does get a chance to Plug That ear of corn and And have some. If he gets a chance to eat that vegetable or that potato or whatever it is, that's when you go, oh, it's worth it. I'm not going to eat every single. Produce in my field, but just eating that much for my personal needs and for my family. That's why we do what we do.
Amen. I love it. Absolutely. Guys, make sure you join us next time. Same time, same station.
We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. That's right. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that if it's your first time listening to us, which once you know that we love you and we want to talk to you again tomorrow, so make sure that you tune in and tell your friends and family to do the same. And that you can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give.
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So Clearview Today is going to be on TBN Plus very soon. We're excited about that partnership and excited to join us today. Please don't say that. Excited to jump over to TBN Plus and all the subscribers and viewers that are there. Cafe Sessions Volume 1 by Clearview Worship is out now.
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You are not going to want to miss it. That's right. We're out of time, but we love you guys and we will see you tomorrow on Clearview Today. Oh my gosh.
