You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abin Shah, a daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Clearview Today. We got a great conversation on the books for you guys today.
Before we do any of that, we want to welcome our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament text and criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome to the show. Thank you.
The same day. Welcome to the studio. It's going to be a great day. Yes.
So, quick update, quick reminder for everybody who's listening. Lots and lots of great things are happening behind the scenes on Pray.com, on Truth Network. Want to let you know two quick things, real quick. Number one, all throughout the month of October, Dr. Shah is live on Pray Radio at 7 a.m.
Eastern Time. It's a great, great time. A lot of them are sermons, but some of them are the Clearview Today episodes.
So we're doing a lot of experimentation, seeing what resounds with people with Pray TV, Pray Radio. You can also see Dr. Shah live on Pray TV every single Friday at 8:30 a.m. Lots and lots of great things are happening over at Pray. Lots of things that are not secret, but they're new.
We're going to be letting you know. Later on. Yeah, and Pray is a great resource. It's at-base. You can find it on the web as well, but it's primarily at base, Pray.com.
It's one of the fastest-growing platforms for Christian media, and it's one of the greatest ways to access Dr. Sean and all of his content there. In fact, there's some exclusive content available only on every single day of the week. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
And then Sunday again. All right, that's the first thing. Second thing, we are looking for potential sponsors for the show. We've had a lot of people been emailing us wanting to talk about sponsorship. That was something we wanted to let you guys know is available.
So if you'd like to advertise your business or your ministry on the Clearview Today show, send us an email, contact at clearviewbc.org. Dr. Shah, we got a great, great segment for you guys today. This is back by popular demand. People have been asking about the Bible Guess It game.
Ryan, do you want to explain what the Bible Guess It game is? The Bible Guess It game, it's a card-based game. It's put out by the Action Bible. Yes, you don't know the Action Bible. We love the Action Bible.
Fantastic reading. Shout out to that. John and I are huge comic book fans. Yes, Shaw too. I mean, you read comic books as well.
That's Tim do sometimes. Yeah. You like to still got the Phantom? You brought the Phantom Bible? Yeah, I do have Phantom comic books.
I have an entire series worth. I want to say about five to 10 years on Kindle. Yeah, that's awesome. Just on Kindle. That's a really cool thing.
So, what I do is. I haven't done it in a while because I've been so busy.
So I come up here. I'll show you this. And if y'all can. See this. Let me see if we can find it.
I can find it. All right. It's Phantom Comm. There it is. There he is.
Phantom comedy. Look how many. Look how many I have. That's a good man. Yeah?
How old are they?
So you were reading those as a kid, huh? Yes, I was. And so each one of them, that's Phantom Command. Jungle Patrol. Jungle Patrol.
Look at those ads. Look at those old school advertisements for Colgate. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
And I don't remember reading these as much because these are coming from the 70s. Um You know, I began to really read, I would say, 60s, 70s. I began to read them more in the. 80s, into the 90s. That's really cool.
In the 90s, I can remember when I first got here, and through just casual conversation, we were talking about comic books. And Dr. Shaw, you mentioned The Phantom, and I was so excited because that was one of my favorite movies growing up, and nobody ever knew who I was talking about. I would say, Yeah, have you seen the movie about The Phantom? And I'm like, I don't know what you're.
The guy with the skull ring. And they're like, comic books are such a great way to tell stories, but people don't do it because they think it's just for kids. And so what happens is you end up with people making movies about superheroes and all these characters, but they don't read the comic books. And so they change things in the movies, right? Like they change things in the TV shows and the movies, and people think that's how they are.
This has been something I've complained about all the time with the Fantastic Four. The Fantastic Four have never been in a movie that's not stupid and boring up until recently.
So everyone thinks the Fantastic Four are stupid and boring. Anyway, that's my thing. All that aside, the Bible guess it game put out by the comic book. Yes, it is. It's a comic book that tells the story of the Bible.
But they put out the Bible guess it game.
So there's 15, right? Yeah, 15 guesses. 15 hints. Clues as to what this person, place, or thing from scripture is. And they start with pretty general and they get more specific.
And the goal is to get it in the first few or as few clues as possible. When you play with a Bible scholar, typically that happens pretty early on. I was going to let Ryan actually host this one, but then I cheated and looked at all the answers. I just did it out of muscle memory.
So, gentlemen, this is a thing, okay? This is an object or a thing. I can be bought. Coming from, and I'll tell you the reference, that's coming from Isaiah 55, verse 1. I can be new.
Or old. Wine? Yes.
Great job. That's incredible. Incredible.
Okay, this is a person. I'm an example of the two great commandments. An example. I'm an example of the two great commandments. Is it the rich young ruler?
No. Close. Close. It's the lawyer guy? It's not a.
I don't think it's a lawyer guy. It's the. Is the Samaritan? Yeah, unbelievable. It's the good Samaritan.
I had to get it done. I was like, I cannot let it go back. You're supposed to get it in like seven to eight hints. Dr. Sha gets it in one each.
I don't know about that.
Okay.
Okay.
This one's a thing. I'm starting to keep up my reputation now.
Now it's become personal. This is an object. I am mentioned in the faith chapter. It's an object. I wore a coat inside and out.
If I tell you the reference, you'll get it instantly. Is it an object? It's an object. God waited patiently for me. I stored a lot of food.
Jesus spoke about me. People ridiculed my builder. I'm twenty five yards wide. Like a Tabernacle? Not the tabernacle.
Temple. I'm three stories high. Is the ark? It's Noah's Ark. It's Noah's Ark.
So I didn't want to say because a lot of the references. Yeah, a lot of the references are Genesis 6, and I knew if I said that, that'd be over. You know, just last week. Uh our church Family and some other people from other churches went with us to the Sight and Sound Theater in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
So if you've never been there, it's in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and also, I believe, in Missouri. Branson. Branson, Missouri. And it's really, really good. Yeah.
And we watched So I'll know what's um No bizarre. How was it? Oh, it was great. Yeah. It was very immersive.
So when you sit in the theater, It's not just something happening in front of you on the stage or on the screen. It's also happening on the side. That's incredible. And so it's quite good. I would really love to see it.
Yeah. All right. This is a person. My father was named Kish. I'm from the tribe.
Of Benjamin. Is this Saul? Yes.
It's King Saul. The next one was going to give it to you because it said I searched for lost donkeys. Oh, now we're going to get that. There's only one who was so worthless. I thought he could even find his dad's lost donkey.
So, Pete. Poster boy, this is going to be our first king, everybody. People love the lost donkey. People love the Bible Guess it game. I think they just want to see how quick you can get it.
I don't know about it. Getting it in two or three is like, that's obscene. That's unheard of. Yeah. It's really, really good.
Thank you. Our verse of the day today is coming from Proverbs chapter 10, verse 4. He who has a slack hand becomes poor, but the hand of the diligent makes rich. Dr. Jell, one of the things that you said to me early in my time at Clearview here has stuck with me all these years.
You told me that a lot of people go into ministry. Not because the Lord has called them. Maybe the Lord has called it, but a lot of times the draw to ministry is because people think It's easy work. A lot of times ministry can be a trap for the lazy. Oh, that is very, very true.
And I'm very sad to say that because I love pastors and they're great people.
So what I'm saying is this is about people that I don't know. personally, but I know who they are. is uh they go into the ministry because other things didn't work out in their lives. I knew a young man, well, he's now not so young anymore, but his call to the ministry was that he f had failed the entrance exam to the college where he was going. He failed.
like horribly.
So he came to my dad and said, I think God's calling me in the ministry. And so my dad asked him. What makes you so sure? Is it because I just failed? Did your dad know just like that what was going on?
Oh, right away. He said, No, you need to go back and study more and see and pray and see what God has in store for you. Just because you failed an exam does not mean this is God's call. He's like, Okay, Pastor, I will do that. And he came back like a day or two later.
He's like, I really feel like this is it. This is it. I got an F, and that makes me feel a call in the ministry. Yeah, because that's what God has been telling me. He's trying to tell me that I'm to feel this call.
No. The man is lazy. Yeah. Was lazy, is lazy, will be lazy. I hate to say that because it sounds very judgmental.
But He entered in the ministry, but he's not in ministry anymore. Wow. First sign of money that person already left. And start a business, started some online business. And then he actually had the audacity to call me and say, Can I take over your internet site?
Huh? Yes, the church. I said, no. And he had moved like two states across.
So it was like. Excuse me? 'Cause he hadn't called me in years. This is when you were living in America? Oh, yes.
This is when I was here as a pastor of the church.
So he was living in America, too. Yes.
He he grew up Overseas, and my dad sent him to Bible College. And at Bible College, man, this is so much information I'm giving today. No, it's awesome. All he did was eat. All he did was eat.
What do you mean? He He actually um you know, really gain a lot of weight. And they Joked about that and he wore it as a badge of honor. For real? Yes.
So when my dad saw him and he came home for like a s like a break. He's like, what are you doing? He said, well, Astra, everybody thinks it's funny and great, and people admire it.
So I keep eating. Wow. And my dad's like, you stop. Nice. You need to stop.
What was it? Like, America's a land of operation. Look how plentiful. It's going to pull it back in India. And so then he pressured my dad to talk to me to bring him here so he could study, so he could go home and be a missionary or whatever.
And so my dad said, I don't know what to say. He wants to come. Pray over it. I said, okay. But I didn't have any hi history with him, I didn't have any connections, so I went ahead and did it, and my dad was like, Oh.
Mm. And so he had directly contacted me. His dad had contacted me.
So I went ahead and gave him an invitation to come and study. And he did. What year was this? When was that? 2002.
Okay, okay. I guess that's like almost 23 years ago. Yeah. Wow. And so he did not study even in seminary.
He did not Hardly do anything. He goofed around. Uh spend other people's money. And that Should have been a warning sign. I was so gullible back then that I was like, oh, okay.
And and I would give him money to pay off his bills. Oh man. Oh yeah. Oh man. Wow.
He used other people's phones. And um To call it. I mean, it's sad. It's not funny, but Golly is so related. The reason I'm sharing this is because these kind of things happen.
Yeah. And and I'm glad he's he left the ministry.
So, what is it about ministry that draws those types of people? Because I've seen that story, I think the reason I'm laughing, and I think a lot of people are probably chuckling to themselves too, is because I think we've all lived the story of people who were in ministry that did not want to work. Why did they get drawn there? Because it's easy living. You can get up there and tell people about God.
you know or about tell funny stories or um Just stop. You know, eke out a living based on just people think you're such a great guy. And You come out and help them once in a while and you are Come visit them in the hospital. And if you even do that.
So, these kind of people don't even do that very well. Wow. Yeah. I know a lot. A lot of pastors who are amazing people.
So, don't, those who are listening, those who are watching us, don't think for a moment that I think all pastors are like this. To the contrary, most pastors are not like this. They're actually good people who are very sacrificial, who are very hardworking, who have overcome some very difficult circumstances by the grace of God. Who diligently try to study the Bible? They diligently visit the people, share the gospel, work two, three jobs.
Many of them are working two, three jobs to make ends meet. And then they have family struggles and children who sometimes don't understand why dad has to be away. I don't want to make light of it. But then there are people who, I would say, creep in to ministry. They creep in.
And they make us all look bad. By doing things like this. Have you ever encountered someone? You've been in ministry for a while. Have you ever encountered someone either working.
With you on something, or in a different context, who entered into ministry and were surprised by how hard the work is. Yeah, I have seen it. I mean, you guys have seen it because y'all were hardworking, no doubt. But once you came here, I think you guys saw that. It's like, wow, this is a lot.
And then I explained to you, I said, this is not like An ordinary church. Right. We're doing a lot of other things to make an impact in the world.
So, yes, we are a church, but we're doing more than just a church does. We want to be a source of encouragement to other churches. We want to provide resources to other believers everywhere.
So, it's more than just a church. And y'all saw. How much I was doing. And now you guys do a lot. I mean, definitely.
Our whole team here, they're y'all are just amazing how many hours you put in. Each week. But I think I think what people and what you've done Is that the foundation has been laid?
So the things that we're doing, we're not like grinding out. How am I trying to say? We're not like grinding out grunt work living. You know what I mean? We're able to build and create stuff.
And there's a creative aspect to the hard work that really helps me thrive. But if you hadn't done all of that stuff already, we wouldn't have anything to build on. Does that make sense? We can afford to be creative because the groundwork has already been laid. The hard work has already, in a sense, been done.
Now, there's still hard work to be done, but we are at a level where we can function in a more creative space because the base. Foundational building blocks are in place. And I think a lot of people, when I think a lot of people, when they think I'm working hard, I'm either outside like smashing rocks with a hammer or I'm sitting in a cubicle plugging in data into a database that doesn't benefit me at all. And so I think people are drawn to the ministry because it's like it's something that's easy, but it's also meaningful. They think it's easy.
They have this vision of easy, easy work sitting in a Office drinking a cup of coffee, reading the Bible, I guess all day during the work day. But it's not any of that other soulless stuff. Yeah, I don't have to answer to anybody. Right. I can do my own thing and then.
I can go out there, pick up my laundry. Yeah. I can then go out and grab lunch somewhere. There's a s there's a I have some coupons, you know. And and and I know I've I use coupons too if I if I can, or gift cards.
But Most pastors are very busy people. Yeah, yeah. But then there are some who will creep in. To answer your question that you earlier began with, who have no business being in ministry, their heart's not in the right place, they're unwilling to work, they're set in their ways, which means they're not going to change, they're not going to do anything better. For their people.
They're not going to dig into the word of God. They're not even going to visit their people who are in the hospital. Right. They're not going to share the gospel with anybody. And some of them, unfortunately, get involved and.
lot of bad habits like pornography. Like, um Uh You know, other habits like drinking or whatever, and they will get into those kinds of things, and it's very sad. Very sad, and like you said earlier, it's very damaging. I mean, people are looking at that, and they sort of, I mean, not sort of, they give us a bad reputation because by association, people just kind of make this generalization that. Pastors are lazy, or people at ministry don't work, or they, you know, the tired joke, you only work one day a week.
Well, that's yeah, that's exactly what I was about to bring up. I think the percept, like, we don't. We don't Advertise our workday. You know what I mean? So people only see Sunday or Wednesday night.
So they think that, and people make that joke. And, you know, a lot of times it's good-hearted, but sometimes it's a veiled. Question: Like, what do you do all week? You know, right? Like, like, y'all only work two days a week.
What do y'all do the rest of the day? Y'all just do like an eight-hour Bible study, and that's your workday. And people don't see the The Communication that happens, the planning that happens, the writing these shows. And that's the other thing, too, is that. Your goal is just to have the church continue to grow.
Like, yeah, if we're not interested in growing, then shoot, we work two or three days a week, get the card signed. You know, do your thing. But when the church has to grow, you have to constantly be in communication with other people. And you have to be doing like laying down these, these, I guess, um. these foundations of that you can grow on.
I also want to clarify, church is not just a business. True. Of course, we need to run it like a business when it comes to managing things properly, whether it is our assets or our finances, we need to manage them Properly with accountability, but at the same time, church is much more than a business, it's about God's business.
So you cannot just see dollar and cent, although that's important. We have to see it as lives being transformed. True. Our money is not just so it can sit in the bank account and we get. really bloated with with A bigger and bigger bank account.
No, our money is to be used for the kingdom of God.
So we keep expanding, we keep helping people, whether it's in our community or It's Far away from us, like on the other side of the state. Like last year when the hurricane happened, Hurricane Helene. We were able to help so many churches and pastors. We have some good connections on the western side of our state. And we were able to help pastors, and we were in connection.
We sent out checks, and we said, Hey, listen. You do the work. And we want to partner with you. We don't want to come over there and tell you what to do because you are on the ground. Right.
And he said, Well, you know, some of my pastor friends said, I'm not on the ground, I'm like an hour away from it. But I know people who are impacted. I said, okay, if you can find out. I'll keep sending you the checks. And we'll keep sending you people if you need them.
If you don't need our people, don't think you gotta all of a sudden host like 20 people in your homes. But if you need people, There are people ready to go right now. Instilling a work ethic in your congregation. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Like, yeah, your staff is super hardworking, but do you have lazy people in your congregation? Or do you have people who see that need and they see the culture that you've created here? And they say, no, I'm ready to step up. I want to make that happen.
Well, what is amazing at Clear view, and I know it's the same with many other churches and pastors who may be listening right now. When Hurricane Helene happened, Man, I could not. Much of my time was spent telling people, I think they're okay right now. I don't think they need us right now to go, but I think they need money. Don't go there, but go here because I think they're saturated.
They're like. Five to 20 churches are just being housed in that community building, so they cannot house anymore.
So I don't know where y'all are going to go and stay.
So let's not go there. Let's go here.
Well, they're not ready for us there.
So let's hold off.
So many times I've spent saying, telling people, hold off. Hold off. Yeah. And it's not like I was trying to keep them away, but when I would call my contacts, they were like, right now. That's not a whole lot we can do.
Yeah. It's just like, I don't know what to say. Yeah. Which shows the response from people. I mean, it shows that willingness to step up and to serve and to realize that ministry is active.
It's something that does, it's something that pours out, it's something that serves other people. If there are people who are listening to this, This show, and I'm thinking about two groups specifically, so I want to ask you about both. The first group is people who are. Maybe in your shoes, who are pastoring a church or who are on maybe a Personnel committee or nominating committee, and they're looking for people to bring on board. What kinds of people should they be looking for?
to avoid People who are lazy creeping in. Uh for Pastors who are trying to bring in more staff or Church people who are looking to hire Pastors or staff members, I would say, first and foremost, look for a person who believes the Bible is the Word of God.
Okay, that to me is primary. Of course, they need to have a Relationship with Jesus Christ. They need to be walking in holiness, faith, all those things. But All that said, the Bible is the Word of God. The inerrant, inspired, infallible.
Word of God. That's right.
Okay.
I can keep adding other adjectives if I need to. Um Number one. Number two. If um they are Depends on which capacity they're coming in. Um they should be good leaders of their family.
To me that's very important. They need to be um you know, not like they're in charge of their homes, but they need to um love their children, love their wives. Or if it's a staff member and it's a female that she loves her husband or. If they're single, great. They have a good outlook on life.
They're open to relationships. Or maybe not. Maybe they're not. Looking for a relationship. Maybe God has given them peace about it.
But either way, they should be as well adjusted as possible. That's right.
Yeah. Also willing to submit themselves to the leadership of Those who are over them.
So they're not just uh like renegades. Doing whatever they feel like doing, they should be willing to say, Hey, I am here under your leadership. Please help me, guide me. I'm willing to do what needs to be done. I can bring ideas, I can be creative, but I am submitting myself to your authority.
Right. That a person who's unwilling to. Take Instructions is not Fit for the ministry. What's easier personally for your managed style? Your management style and your leadership style, what would you rather deal with?
An employee that you have to rein in? or an employee that you have to push. I don't mean to rein in like they're a renegade, but just like they're like me personally, I'm. I'm a man of like right now. If I get an idea, I want it implemented today.
And sometimes it's like, hey, let's rein that in. But then there's other people in the past who are like, if you don't give them a project and give them, they're not going to do anything. You know what I mean? I think you need both kinds of people.
Now, if you mean by rain in as in they're crazy and they do wild and crazy things, then I don't want that person. If raining, you mean. If by raining, you mean, like, man, they are gung-ho ready to charge forward.
Okay.
Um I can I can I can live with that. I think that's a great quality to have. Mm-hmm. If by that you mean they are a little hesitant. They are hesitant to take a risk, hesitant to be out there doing things.
They rather give me my little space and tell me what I need to do, and I'm happy doing this. Yeah, I'm okay with pushing them. But if it's pushing them That's just biting their time. They're just uh hiding If they have ulterior motives, then I don't want that either. But if I have to push them because they They haven't been pushed before, they haven't been stretched before, I'm okay with doing that.
I'm okay with both kinds. Just need to be the right kind. That is what I meant, the first one. Like, they just haven't been pushed, but they're like, give me my little office, give me my little desk. And I'll just do what you ask me to do.
Yeah, I'm going to push that person. But if they're a person who's like, I'm ready to try this, and I'm going to try that, and I'm going to try this. I'm okay with that. I just have to say, okay, so let's just try this one first. That's a good point.
Second group of people the people who are listening and who are thinking I feel like God is calling me into ministry. How do you determine that that is actually God calling you versus I want an easy road. Oh, that's an old question. As a question that Spurgeon answered, that's a question that My father-in-law, Pastor Jerry Shedd, asked me And When I went to him, he asked me the same question that Spurgeon would often ask. his students.
Is there anything else you could rather do? Can you see yourself doing that day after day, day after day, and not losing your joy? Then go do that. But if you genuinely, maturely, Look at that and go Yeah, it does look look quite Fun. But no, I can't see myself doing that day in, day out.
No, I don't think so. I can enjoy it time and again. but not on a regular basis. Then Consider ministry if you are called. Yeah, that's a great point.
That's a great point. Yeah. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to all of our sponsors for making the episode possible.
And like John said at the top, if you're interested in being a sponsor for the show, write in and let us know at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at clearviewtodayshow.com. Don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes if you want to re-listen or share it with a friend. And you can always support us financially at Abadanshad.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to close with today? Just want to direct you guys to our friends over at the Truth Network.
It's your one-stop shop for 24-7 Christian Talk Radio. That's where we're syndicated through, and they have lots of other original programming right there on the Truth Network.
So if you're in the Raleigh Triangle area, or if you're just abroad and you want to listen on their app, Give a listen, you'll be glad you will. That's right.
We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on TV today.
