You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome to the Clearview Today studio. This morning, we got a great conversation lined up for you guys today.
But before we do anything else, we want to introduce our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome. Thank you.
Good to be here with you guys again. Thank you. Thank you for having me over the past few days with everything happening in our nation following the tragic murder of Charlie Kirk. These episodes have been really impactful for us sitting on the couch, and I know it's been impactful for those of you who are listening at home as well. It really has.
It really has. We've gotten a lot of people who have been texting us and saying, thank you for saying what you're saying. You know, I think we touched on this a little bit yesterday, and I'm sure we're going to talk about it a little bit more. But people are starting to wake up. Our nation is starting to wake up.
Absolutely. I think that has given us a lot of hope. We said that shortly after Donald Trump won this past presidency, and we've been saying it that things have been going on an upswing. And I think now we're starting to see a major spike. Absolutely.
People coming back to the Lord. Yeah. It's very sad, it's tragic, it's heartbreaking to know that a man lost his life. Or, really, I mean, his life was taken away from him. That's right.
Uh but I know God is using this horrific Tragedy to turn people towards himself, as he always does. That's what Romans 8:28 is about, right? And we know that all things work together for good. And in this situation, it's not a personal good as it is a nationwide good. That's right.
God is doing something good in our nation through something very horrific. He is bringing about something good. And so that also helps us understand some theology. Evil people meant for evil. God is going to Work it for good.
That's right. That's what he did in Joseph's life. That's what he did in Paul's life. That's what he did in. My life, your life, and he is doing in this nation's life what people meant for evil.
God is using it for good. That's right. I think that's a beautiful answer to people who would say, well, why does God allow bad things to happen? Especially, why does God allow bad things to happen to good people? God has created a world in such that free will exists.
People can make choices, even if they're the wrong choices. But he is sovereign and he is good, and he brings good from evil. Not that he erases evil or stops it from happening, but he brings good out of evil. And if you're a Christian and you're listening to this and you're seeing, I mean, if you've seen that tragic video of Charlie Kirk's death and you're like, what in the world? Why would God allow something like that just in order to bring something good?
We did an expansive series through Romans right here on this show. And so a lot of that doctrine is actually covered. You know, we didn't know months ago when we were doing it or a couple months ago that this would happen. We had no clue. How could we have known?
But we talked, Dr. Shah talks about suffering. He talks about tragedy and chaos and sin and death. And how all these things Factor into the daily Christian life. Yeah, God will deal with sin one day.
That's right. He's already dealt with sin on the cross. The power of sin, the power of the enemy has been broken. That's a great point. That's what the cross did for us.
But we still have to live in this world and in God's divine economy, the enemy still has. Certain rights because he had been given those rights, and God is a God of order and justice, and he's not going to take those rights away until that moment in the end. And then the enemy will be judged even more for what he has done.
So, again, I want to say this with a lot of caution and humility, standing behind Jesus Christ. That's right. Because the moment some of us buck up and we begin to talk about the enemy, we don't realize. How powerful he still is.
So, anytime, folks, just a word to the wise, when you are spouting off and talking about how much you're powerful than the enemy, just know. Stand behind Christ. That's right. Read the book of Jude. It tells us that even Michael the archangel did not rebuke Satan to his face.
He rebuked him saying, In the name of the Lord. Which means that all the authority and power we have is not in us. Is in Christ.
So let Christ do that work, fight the enemy. You put on the whole armor of God. That's right. And you stand. Our job is not to go battle the enemy.
Our job is to put on the whole armor of God and stand. That's what we're supposed to do. You've said that. You've said that many times on the show. There's only one offensive weapon in that whole passage, and it's the sword, which is the word of God.
That's right. We have the truth of God. That's the only thing we can use to combat the enemy. And Jesus said the best example of that, right? During the temptation.
Absolutely. What did he lean on? He leaned on God's Word. He turned it around and used that to rebuke the devil. Even when the devil started to twist passages of scripture, which I think is a chilling realization that the devil knows the Bible better than you do.
Jesus met that with scripture and he met it with scripture interpreted rightly because as the word of God, he is going to know the word of God. Right. Three times the enemy threw. The Bible, right in Jesus' face, the Son of God's face, the one who dictated the Bible through the Holy Spirit to God's people. He threw those words back into his face, and each time Jesus responded with a proper hermeneutics.
And And shut the enemy up.
So, our offensive weapon is the word of God. That's right. And that's all you need to do. Stand on the Bible. The Bible has power.
Charlie Kirk. Was murdered because he stood on the word of God. Yes, that's true. And a lot of Christians out there think that just because they are Christians, they have the Bible quote unquote on their side, then they're impervious. They don't realize that they're enemies, both the enemy and their enemies in this nation.
They'll use the Bible against you. They know it better than you do because we don't, you know, a lot of Christians, we think just because I'm a Christian. I'm not going to read it. And a lot of Christians don't read it. Extend that metaphor back to the armor of God.
I mean, if you're a soldier and you have a sword, it's not enough to just have a sword in your tent and then go to the front lines. It's not even enough to say you have a sword and carry it with you, but have never trained it. Yeah, I got to know how to use it. You got to know how to use it and you got to have it with you. You're right.
Exactly. Exactly. You know, Charlie Kirk's philosophy was based on three ideas. The first idea was that America is the greatest country in the history of the world. I've been saying that for years, and 100% true.
We talked about that last weekend, or last show, to be honest. We talked about how. Our founding fathers took the best of the Greek ideals. The best of European Enlightenment thinking And the Word of God. In fact, I would say the Word of God was the biggest foundational block.
Of the three. That's the cornerstone. That's the one that it's all built on. Yeah, that's the biggest one. Charlie Kirk believed that this nation was the greatest nation.
Now, when we say greatest nation, people often say, ah, wait a minute. Slavery. Greatest nation does not mean a nation without faults. Greatest nation means it has certain vision or ideals. that we are to aspire.
That's what it means to be a grazed nation. Yeah, of course, right now I'm already experiencing a lot of those ideals and those visions that the founding fathers had for us as a nation. But There are many things that we can still work towards.
So, greatest nation does not mean faultless nation. That's right. It doesn't mean we hit the mark every time, and it doesn't mean that the faults that we have. And the faults that we had aren't significant. Like, we would never brush a lot of America's faults under the rug and say, well, I mean, yeah, that's one or two.
Like, no, there may be many. But even in spite of those faults, the ideals, like you talked about, this Western principle of the sovereignty of the individual and the. Foundation of Judeo-Christian values, even in spite of those faults, those things are desirable. Yeah, what nation do you know that went to fight with one another. For the rights and privileges of a whole different ethnicity.
Yeah. Good point. That's a great point. I mean, it doesn't exist. What nation do you have?
Not even Israel did that. Good thing. God's people didn't do that. I mean, not that they had to because their history or their timeline was different. Mm-hmm.
But do you know of any nation that ever did that? That we're going to go fight for you in the process die.
Now, Joshua did it. When he fought for the people who tricked God's people, I think it was the Gibeonites, I think. They were, you know, they aligned themselves and then they had the Canaanites came against them.
So even though the Gibeonites had had tricked Joshua and God's people into accepting them.
Now that they had made a covenant with them, they had to protect them against the other Canaanites, and so they fought against the Canaanites to protect. What who were like previously Canaanites. Other than something like that, we don't have any example In history where one group of people fought one another so that a whole different ethnicity would have certain rights. I think you're 100% right. And I think that our verse of the day ties perfectly into this.
Ryan, do you want to read this? This is actually the verse of the day for yesterday, but Do you want to read this one? Absolutely. Verse of the day today is coming from Psalm 133, verse 1. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity.
It is like the precious oil upon the head running down on the beard, the beard of Aaron running down on the edge of his garments. You know, with everything happening in our nation today, there's polarization, there's hateful rhetoric, there's violence, and it makes me wonder. And this is actually a check-in that we got, Dr. Shah.
Someone wrote into the show and asked, Do you think we'll ever be one people again? Yeah. Do you think we'll do you think we'll this division? Yeah, this division, right versus left, do you think it will last for the rest of America? I think there will always be people who will be on this opposite side.
I don't think that will ever go away. The enemy will always find some open heart, some open mind to go and capture. and use against the truth of God, I think that will always be the case. When you see history, especially biblical history, you always find that one person. who got sucked up.
In the enemies. Yeah. Having said that, I think there is a mighty movement that is happening where people. Everywhere are turning towards God. Maybe I think there is a change that is coming.
Yeah. Maybe even if you reframe this question, because this person asked, will we ever be one people again? Would you. Could we reframe it to say, are we still one people? Oh yeah, absolutely.
We're still that's what makes America great. You know, again, not faultless, great, is that even though there are people here who are doing wrong things against our own nation. We still care for them. We still love them. We are still doing things for them.
That's what makes America America. In other places, you may be yanked up and thrown into some concentration camp. We're not doing that here. I mean, there is law and order, but we're still giving you the freedom to live and comment and say the things you're doing. Albeit is wrong.
That's also a value that's explicitly biblical. Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Right. The people who are opposed to your view and who are against you, who are in opposition to you. They're still afforded a chance at life.
They're still afforded a chance to be successful. They're still afforded a chance to enjoy basic their basic needs being met. And that's always the rhetoric that you hear on the left. I hate to say that, but it really is, is that they say conservatives Don't want us to have the right to exist because they think that homosexuality is a sin, that homosexual marriage isn't a thing, that transgenderism is wrong, they want to erase us. They want us to, because they know that.
They know that truth that you, and maybe you can speak on this, Dr. Shah.
I think deep down, truly, I genuinely think that, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think deep down, even people on the left know what the truth is. I think they know that this, all of this, this sexual revolution, this like perverse sexual revolution that's trying to happen in America is not. True. I would say to some extent yes, but also to a certain extent uh the human heart is wicked and evil. And And some people have crossed the line.
I think only the grace of God can penetrate that heart and that mind and soften them. Only the Holy Spirit can soften their heart. That's why we need to pray for our nation. That's what we're doing at our church. The prayer vigil is all about.
It is to pray for people because we believe in the power of prayer. If you don't, pack up and go home. This is just a charade, this is just another way to make a living. But if we do believe this, then prayer is powerful. We prayed for this.
We prayed for awakening, the 24-hour prayer vigils that have been going on at Clearview Church for years. We're seeing a proof. of that prayer being answered. There's more that is going to come. Great point.
So uh I I think There is evil out there Yes, there are many people who know what they're doing is wrong. but there are many who actually believe this cause. and they're deep into it. And only God's grace can penetrate that heart. and only the Holy Spirit can soften their heart to see their need for a Saviour, and there is only one Saviour.
And that is the Son of God, fully God, became fully man, the second person of the Godhead, the one whom the Bible proclaimed, and the one who came. and fulfill all the promises And now he is coming again. This is Jesus Christ. And our prayer is that people's hearts and minds would be open to that. And that's why prayer comes in.
And that's why we need to pray. Amen. You know, I had a thought, and maybe 'cause we're talking about unity. We're talking about how to bring unity back into our nation. And so when you think of unity, you think of this like conciliatory, like let's meet in the middle and agree.
Compromise. Let's compromise. How do you and and I'm gonna try to frame this question and and ask it correctly. You think of like conservatives in the name that means we're built on something good. Let's not change too much or let's be cautious about what we change.
Whereas with liberals it's like our morality is more or less in motion, right? The things that we value today we might not have valued 50 years ago, and the things that we value today might be different 50 years from now.
So At the heart of a conservative mindset is that you have this unchanging truth and this unchanging ideal, which is God and God's word. And so, the only way to have unity is for you guys to come to our side. There is no meeting in the middle. How do you frame that to someone in a way that is winsome? You know what I mean?
And maybe I worded that poorly. No, I think you did it just right. I think there is a problem in the way you stated that. What you described was not a conservative, you described a preservative.
Okay, there there's a big difference between a preservative and a conservative.
Okay. Preservative are people who like to keep things as they are. They don't want to change. They don't want to change traditions. They don't want to change.
centuries old ways of doing things. They want to hang on to that because they feel like in hanging on to those cultures and rituals or whatever traditions they have, there is safety, there is longevity. That's what they feel like. America was not built to be a preservative conservative, yes. That's a value system.
Values have to be adapted to every generation. Values are not based on rituals. Right. Now, no, that's great to have rituals, and it's great to have traditions. And, you know, some of these high universities like Oxford, Cambridge, you know, they have those traditions.
You know, certain traditions they do. And you cannot. Change them. Why do they do them like that? That's like from medieval times.
Oh, because that's what makes us. Yeah, these universities of ancient times.
Okay. But Con America was Was designed to be a conservative means there are certain values, you know. Going back to Kir uh uh uh Charlie Kirk. The second Important idea that he had was that the Constitution is the greatest political document ever written. The Constitution is the greatest political document.
The Constitution doesn't tell us how. we should be dressed. Right. The Constitution doesn't tell us what we can eat or not eat. The Constitution doesn't tell us what kind of a haircut we need to have.
The Constitution gives us certain principles. That are non-negotiable for the future and the. and ensures that we will have the freedoms we do.
Okay. So Preservative Tends to want you to look just like me and act like me and dress like me and sing like me and all of that. I am not a preservative. I love the old hymns. But I am not going to Fight for that.
Because Every generation needs to have their own songs. That's a good point. That's why I'm not a preservative. I'm a conservative. As long as the theology of those songs is.
Biblical It's okay. He said, Well, they're repetitious. I get it. I don't enjoy some of those things either.
Some of them are coming from a Pentecostal side of things, so I don't, you know, I always tell people to make sure. get biblical rather than just feelings-based. And again, I'm not against Pentecostal songs. That's fine. We got some great music from all these different denominations.
Wonderful. As long as they're biblical. That's right. Yeah, they can write some fire songs. Don't get me wrong, but as far as your deep theology, they are kind of few and far between.
There are some, but they're harder to find. And that's what I want to put pressure on the others.
Okay, you're a Southern Baptist, you're evangelical Presbyterians, or evangelical Lutheran or evangelical Methodist, and please write something that's worth singing. Right. Yeah, something that will capture this generation, but also maintain that sense of deep biblical truth. Yeah. Because those are few and far between.
They are harder to find. Right. So if you're not writing many, then the other side will write. Mm-hmm. They're m they maybe they're in more in touch with their feelings and they're writing things that move your feelings.
You know, music moves your your your feelings, your heart. And that's wonderful. We need that. We need something to move our hearts. Um so all that to say When we're talking about these two sides.
I think what you described is more a preservative versus a liberal. And I don't want to be a preservative. I want to be a conservative. It means there are certain values we stand on, but they need new dresses and new garbs for every generation. That's an interesting statement.
I haven't ever thought about it like that before: that the values don't change, but they need a different wrapper for the generation. They need new garments. Why is that necessary? Why do they need to. have new garments for each generation.
Because every with every change in history or every movement along the the the the spectrum or or the timeline of history, People change. Um new things are invented. Lifestyles change. And we adapt and we begin to Act and do things differently. We wear different kinds of clothes.
We're not wearing, um, you know, the togas or we're not wearing The the Uh you know The garments that people wore back in medieval times, or even like 150 years ago. The way they're Their suits were. I mean, we don't wear that anymore. Right. Even 100 years ago, the way people wore their clothes.
We don't wear It like that. Things have changed, especially in women's fashion. Men's suits sort of still look the same, but women's. The dresses have changed. Yeah, that's true.
That's true. I wonder why, or I wonder how to. Because we're talking about unity and bringing these people back together. That's what this commenter asked. And I I wonder if there's a way to do so.
And also tell people that these values are non-negotiable. For instance, America is founded on Judeo-Christian principles. You don't have to be a. Christian to live in this nation and to participate in this nation. But you do have to live by these principles.
And I think what they would say is: well, why? I don't agree to those principles. How do you go about saying these are the non-negotiables of our nation? Because I feel like with things like abortion, with things like transgenderism, with things like homosexuality, that's one of the ways that they've pushed back to say, no, no, no, those are your values.
Well, the problem with transgenderism I mean th th these are two different issues happening here. Sure. Uh so abortion. Killing a human being is wrong. That's where people say it's like, well, that's not a human being yet.
And I would say, no, that is a human being already inside the mother's womb. Killing that baby is wrong. Right. If that baby were taken out right now and and And they survive, what would you do? You protect it?
Yes.
Okay, then you have to protect it while it's in the mother's womb.
So that is one issue. We should always. Protect the life of a person. That's one issue. Transgenderism Does a person in America have the right To wear clothes or pretend to be a female and they happen to be a male.
Do two people have the right to Have Consensual sex, if you know, uh adults I'm talking about, male and male, female and female, yes. But you do not have the right, number one, to call it marriage. And I know we have made laws for that, but I'm sort of giving you. But it should be because the moment you make it marriage, then for me to say that is not a marriage is hate speech. Your right is now infringing on my right.
So you have a right to do what you want to. But you don't have the right to redefine the institution of marriage. Because that is a very standard designation for Right. For all people. I think that's an important clarification.
This isn't you uncovering an additional meaning of marriage. This is redefining what marriage has always been considered to be. That cannot be. Yes, you have the right to live together and have relations, but you cannot make that marriage because then there are other things that become possible. part of the debate.
Adoption and rights and insurance and all these things all begin to fall into that. There are places where Uh, insurance is available for the other partner or life insurance, whatever, and that's It is what it is. Marriage is something sacred.
So we as Christians will have to fight for Israel, but that's not fair. How can you get to have a marriage and I don't? I know it's not fair, but What you're trying to make fair than infringes on my values, so I'm going to fight for it.
Sorry.
Sorry.
We're going to have to fight for it.
So that's one issue. Second issue is in America, what has happened over the past few years is. That It's not enough. to be a transgender person. They want to They want you to To to support it.
Mm-hmm. They want you to endorse it. They want you to accept it and affirm it. No, I shouldn't have to do that. Right, that's right.
That's a different issue. Mm-hmm. So can they live in America and and do those things? Yeah, but you cannot shove it in my face. You cannot make me wanna Say, oh, that's wonderful, and celebrate it, or go to the school and do that.
That no, we're not going to drag our children into it. Right. Yeah. Right. Your right ends when it starts infringing upon the rights of another person.
Right. And then they will say, well, then your rights are infringing upon my rights.
Okay. If that's the case, then now we have to.
Now we have to fight this out. Yeah. Yeah. Not physically fighting. Sure, sure, sure.
Of course. You know, this is what they did to Charlie Kirk. And he said things and they took it out. He wanted to fight. No.
What we're saying here is now we have to be vocal about our rights. And we have to go to the court or we have to get Supreme Court involved. I mean, all these things is what we mean when we say fight. Yes, of course. Of course.
There's a battle of wills and there's a battle of ideals, I guess you would say. Yeah. And at the end of the day, I. I wonder will there be a victor? Or will do you think we're locked in?
And we talked about this a little bit at the top of the episode. I was going to ask that: what hope do we have that truth will win? Yeah. Well, I would say the election process. You know, that's why it's so important for us In America, especially Christians in America, especially conservative Christians in America, to begin at the grassroots level.
and elect people who will stand for biblical values. And biblical values does not mean that we're going to go out there and kill other people who don't agree with us or stone homosexuals or all this. This is nonsense that people throw against us. No. Absolutely not.
That's right. Because the Constitution has given you that right. He said, well, there was a time when interracial marriage in America was illegal. I know. And guess what?
It was wrong. Yeah, that was a bad law. We got rid of that. That was a bad law. And by God's grace.
It's it's ended. He said, Well, you know, but there were Christians back then who were supporting that. I know, that's wrong. God's people haven't ever made mistakes. Yeah, yeah.
That's wrong. And they were wrong for doing that. And that's what a lot of conservatives will say. They say, Show me unjust laws, and we'll work together with you to get rid of them. And that's exactly what's happened.
Right. So. Here we are. It's uh it's a work in progress.
So you cannot equate everything and say, See, this happened here, so that's this is this.
So that was interracial marriage, and now you have uh homosexual marriage. It's all the same thing, guys, all the same. No, it's not all the same thing. Not all the same thing. You cannot make that kind of an argument.
And and to do that, it's f frankly, it's very insulting to me because You know, my wife is is white and I am Indian?
So, for you to say that that's the same thing as a homosexual marriage. It's not at all. I mean, I had people tell me that. It's like, hey, a few years ago, you would not have. been able to be here or exist and I'm like No, I I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response.
Right. Uh no, that's not even the same thing. No, not in the same universe.
So helpful for us. Guys, make sure you join us next time, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. Don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes.
If you want to re-listen, you can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to close with today? Definitely want to let you guys know that everything on YouTube has made a massive shift. We are now over at Dr. Abadan Shah all.
Just like we did with the website, instead of having clearviewtodayshow.com, everything online has moved over to Abadhanshah.com. Same exact thing on YouTube. Clearview Today Show is now under Dr. Abadan Shah. It made everything a lot easier.
It made all of our Prey audiences get streamlined.
So everything is tied up nice with a little bow. Make sure you go and subscribe to Dr. Abadan Shah on YouTube. Make sure you follow him on Prey.com. We're going to have that 50,000 celebratory episode probably early next week.
So thank you so much for supporting us. Thank you for giving. And we've had a great, great time talking with you guys today. That's right. We love you guys.
We'll see you next time on Cleveland Today. Very good. Yeah, that was bright.
