You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, a daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Studio with our host, Dr.
Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome to the show. Welcome to the studio. Thank you.
It's good to see you. Good to see you. We got a great conversation today. Before we do anything else, I do want to remind all of our listeners that Clearview Today is syndicated through the Truth Network. And you know what that means is that that's your one-stop shop for all your Christian talk radio needs.
So we want to encourage you guys to check out all the original programming on the Truth Network. If you're driving, if you're at work, if you just need some encouragement in your Christian walk, you can always find something great to listen to on the Truth Network. You can tune in live to your local stations or you can stream at any time at truthnetwork.com. And hey, if you tune in at the right time, you might just hear your favorite trio and you might just hear Dr. Shell's wisdom coming at you live on the radio through the Truth Network.
That's right. Make sure you tune in. Download that Truth app. It's a great way to keep up with the Truth Network no matter where you go. That's right, Ryan.
We got a brand new game today. Do you want to explain the game? Hang on. I got some theme music. For the game.
Ready? Ready? Ready? Here it comes. That's right.
So the new game that we're playing is called Imposter.
So a couple years ago, you remember that Among Us was a wild creature. Yeah, I remember that.
Alright, so the game Imposter works, all of us have a card, right? We're gonna play a couple different rounds. Most of us have the same word written on our card. It's gonna be one word per round.
However, one among us has the word imposter written on their card. And the goal of the imposter, like with most imposter games, is to blend in.
So we're gonna take turns going around the circle and using one word to describe the word that is written on our card.
So, for example, if we had the word spaghetti, I might say Pasta. And then Dr. Shaw, you might say, meatballs. And then David, if he's the imposter, he might catch on and say, what a new one. Marinara.
So, the goal of the imposter is to blend in, but the goal of everyone else is to figure out who the imposter is. Because eventually, they're going to start saying some words that are off the wall. And so, like, if we think we know who the imposter is, go ahead and make an accusation. Yes. But just for time's sake, since it's a 30-minute show, we're going to say that the first time one of us guesses wrong, the imposter wins.
So we can try three rounds. Y'all want to go ahead and look at the cards you got? Yeah, let's do it.
So go ahead and look at the cards that you got in. Keep your card in there. Round one.
Okay, okay. All right. You want me to start? Sure. Black and white.
Okay. Ice, okay. Yeah. Wobbly.
Okay. Okay. David's the imposter. Dang it. David, you finally agree last year.
And the word was penguin. Penguin. All right, you want to do round two? Yeah, round two. I'm going to give you another card.
Okay. Here, that's round two. Go ahead and take yours. All right, round two, David. You ready?
Do I start it off? Go ahead and go ahead and look at your card. Everybody look at your card.
Okay. I'll start it off. Dark Uh Really wrong? Go ahead and do that, John. Oh.
Go ahead, David. Follow Ryan's the imposter. I was impassive. I was 100%. Dark was so ambiguous.
It could have gone in so many ways. I was like, hmm, the word was a shadow. That's pretty fun. All right, round three. Last one.
There's so many different things to have been. That's a fun one. That's a fun one. I like that it's short because we can do multiple rounds because it's a round three.
Okay. You're Shout out to Caroline, who's on staff, for coming up with some really great. I thought they were going to be like pizza hamburgers, but these are good. All right, Ryan, do you want to start? I can, sure.
Yeah, go for it. Let's go. Words.
Okay. Vocabulary. Imposter. Yeah, David. Imposter.
Oh, you. Me? Oh, no. No, I'm not. Is it you, David?
Alright, I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep going. Author Ding. Secretary. Stories?
David Z. I think it's David. Yeah. I mean, he hit pretty close. You said it like a question.
So I was like, I feel like David's trying to look at it. The word was hype writer. And so that's the game. That's imposter. Yeah, we'll play that a little bit more as we go on.
And we'll get better and better. That was the first time we did it. But, gentlemen, very good. That was a fun. And the Jesus juke is: you know, you got to suss out the imposters in your life using the word of God.
That's right. That's right. I was going to say also a very nice play with Dr. Shaw using keys because keys was definitely a misleading one that could. Yeah, that could go a lot of different ways.
That could be a keyboard, that could be a piano. That could be keys on your keyring. Very nice. All right, let's read the verse of the day. The verse of the day today comes from Philippians chapter 4, verse 8.
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy, meditate on these things. Circumstances of your life and what you're going through at the moment. This can either be one of the easiest verses to achieve, or it could be one of the hardest. Yeah. You know what I mean?
I imagine like people who you know, when things are going well, when you're riding life, it's easy to look at the or it's easier, I would say, to look at the good things and say, God, thank you for this life. Thank you for all the blessings you've given us. And it's easy to meditate on those things. But when you're In the trenches, like when you're really, really hurting and struggling, a verse like this can seem impossible. Yeah.
Very recently I was talking to a person who was facing a difficult time and they could not help but Just Focus almost like a laser beam on their problems, on their situation, really. And uh I kept telling him, you know, that Turn towards the positive things. Look towards the promises of God. Train your mind to go to the truth of God. It was very difficult.
It was very difficult because this person agreed with me that that needed to happen. But in practice, Their mind was just Like a rubber band, it would come right back to that original position. And the original position was negativity. And I thought about our own. personal lives, even though we're not going through that.
Situation or the tragedy or the trial, yet we sometimes get hung up. On those negative thoughts. That impossible situation, that mountain of a problem, and that's where we need the Holy Spirit of God to help us. overcome that natural resting place Which is negative, by the way. And overcome and focus on the truth of God.
And that's what Paul is telling. The Philippians. You know, whatever is true, good, noble. Praiseworthy, meditate on these things. And meditate is not just a casual glance, it's taking the time to Just Think on those things.
Take the time to almost like marinate. Yes. Yeah, you're right. I love the words that you're using, the intentional language, where you said this person needs to train their mind. I was just about to say that.
And meditate is an intentionality. There's a forcing your mind to do this kind of thing because by nature, our minds drift, our minds wander. I mean, we've used language like that for years. Your minds wander, your thoughts get away from you, you run away from you. But we have to train, we have to force our minds to focus on the things of God.
I think people think that being positive is just like a bent. Like you're either a positive person or you're not. And there might be some truth to that, but I think you're right, Dr. Shaw. It's a discipline.
You have to discipline yourself to look on the bright side. And I like the way that you said train your mind, because I think a lot of people would take that advice and say, so you're just telling me to ignore the bad. Just focus on the good, ignore the problems in life, and eventually they'll just go away. But really, you're training your mind to handle. Those situations better, right?
Like training your mind to see the positives, even in those bad situations. Right. When Paul is saying, whatever things are true. And noble and just and pure and lovely and of good report, if there's any virtues, if there is anything praiseworthy. Don't just think of them as um the beautiful things of life.
Or the praiseworthy things in in this world, noble things. Make sure that they are coming through. The the foundation Yeah. The Bible. Make sure they're coming through the person of Jesus.
So don't just think of lovely as in, oh, I was listening to Mozart, or I was listening to, or watching this beautiful. Movie or painting. No, think of it more in the sense of scriptural truth. You can never go wrong there. Other things, as beautiful as they are, or wonderful as they are, They're all flawed.
That's true.
So make sure that. the positives that Paul is talking about. Yeah. Coming from the bedrock of Scripture. That's right.
You know, a couple months ago, we were walking through all the doctrines of Romans. We were diving really, really deep into Romans. And one of the things that it was like up it was like when we came up for air. One of the things we talked about was how people misuse Romans 8:28. You know, all things work together for good.
Because I think if you read that verse by itself, you might be tempted to just say, okay, so I'll just wait it out. All things are gonna wait. All things are gonna come together for good.
So I'm gonna grit my teeth. Suffer through this, and then eventually, if I wait, God will do his thing. But what Paul is seeing here, and I think what you're saying is you have to actively meditate on these things and find the virtue. Find what's beautiful about the trials. It's no secret that in the world around us people are struggling with Anxiety, depression, mental health issues, and struggling to find the positivity.
There's a very real push toward negative because negative is what is going to sell headlines. Negative is what is going to make people tune into a broadcast because they want to know what the problems are in the world. They want to know just how bad the world around them is. I think we have this sort of morbid fascination with things that are going wrong in the world. We do.
How do we how do we s as People who are in ministry, and even just believers who are tuning into this broadcast, how do we speak? Into that and encourage people to train their mind. How do we help guide people in that process? And I think I'm really glad you asked that because I think people, especially people who are listening today, are actively looking for that. You know, yesterday we talked about some of the guys, some of our reps from Pray.com took us out to dinner.
And we were talking about that and they said that the number one most searched Because they have a new AI tool now, which is basically, it's not like the content creation side of things, but like you can type into it and talk to it. Yeah. And it will give you answers and it'll give you scripture and stuff. But they said the number one by a landslide search is how to get over depression, anxiety, mental health, like mental illness. He said, and there wasn't even a close second.
It's that by a mile. And so I think, you know, us talking about this today, I think there's people listening who are listening, like, yes, give it to me. How do I get out of this? Yeah. So we need to back up here and sort of lay down or, you know, revisit certain foundational truths because.
As you live in this world, it's very easy to become I won't say contaminated, but become Um indoctrinated by What the world says about life. And what the world says about life is Problems are too complex. People are too complex. Uh Situations are more than what you see on the surface.
So, your little solution. is not enough. to solve people's problems. Your Trite. Um Pitzee.
Principles and statements are not going to help people. You don't understand.
someone's struggle. We have to Not necessarily ignore that because I think there is some truth in what they're saying, that people are complex, situations are complex. But we need to go back to what the scripture tells us. And one principle that comes to mind is, and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. That's right.
We have to go back to that. Because if not, we will get swept away by What the world says has Hey, don't offer you quick solutions. And sometimes even. people who are in Christian Scholarship. will often Repeat the same things, and I get it.
I do understand that life is complex, people are complex, problems are complex. I get it. But at the same time, We need to make sure that we do not trash or jettison Biblical Principles in order to satisfy the world or feel like we are We are we are talking the same language. You shall know the truth. Which means we have to give people the truth.
Now, I know there can be mental issues that are to a point where that person cannot just bounce back by a simple talk. I know there are struggles people have that one sermon. One Sunday morning. From 950 to 100. 10:30 or whatever time services y'all have.
You know, the first part is worship and then the sermon starts. Just that 40-minute or 30-minute, however long your sermons are, are not going to solve that pro person's problem completely. We know that. Mm-hmm. But we should not Underestimate the power of the truth of God.
That's right. And you've even said before from the pulpit that there are some struggles that you will struggle with for life. It doesn't also true. Yeah. And so I think if we're looking to, it's kind of like goes back to our conversation from a couple of days ago, maybe it was last week.
If you're coming at this looking for, I want a solution that will eradicate this problem forever, you're bringing the wrong question in. And so, of course, you're going to get the wrong. Because sometimes those principles and truths will be more not as much as removing your problem as helping you not only endure. But also maybe even thrive. Through that problem.
Yes, that's true.
So that principle may not be to eradicate it. The principle may be to bring out something good through the point. That's one of the most beautiful things I think I've ever heard you say from the pulpit. You said that in a couple of different messages in various ways, but it's not always about just getting to the other side of the problem, just solving the problem and getting to the easy life.
Sometimes in the difficulty, in the struggle, that's where God keeps you because that's what he wants to teach you something about himself. Yeah, of course. Of course. That's a beautiful reminder, especially for people who are listening today who are in the middle of a struggle and looking for that way out. You know, we don't want to say miserable forever, but in that waiting, in that season of difficulty, could it be that God's trying to teach you something?
So I remember sitting in the pulpit when you preached that sermon, and even when we talked about here, for me, I thought. Anybody who heard that would feel like even more depressed, like, oh, I'll never get rid of this. But for some reason, God worked in my heart where it was like, I felt more free. Yeah. Like, I think one of the big things I struggle with is impatience.
I've always, always been that way. And it's something that I have prayed, God, take away from me. Help me get over this so that I don't struggle with this anymore. And when you. said that.
It wasn't like Okay, cool.
Now I have permission to be impatient for the rest of my life. It wasn't that. But there was a freedom in that God is going to help me thrive. even despite my impatience or maybe because of it in some way. Or, like, or through it, maybe is a better way to say it.
But I think that was just a freeing thing. And maybe people listening to this are like, How in the world can I thrive through depression, through anxiety, through all of that? I think it's freeing to think that there is a reason in everything, even if we don't get to know the reason. God has a reason, that God has a purpose for everything that He allows into your life, or even that He brings into your life. The good things, God allows the bad things into your life, but there's a purpose, a reason behind everything.
That alone is kind of a breath. Absolutely. I would say to people who are struggling there, and I don't know what the spectrum is for where you are on that spectrum. It may be it's just a mild struggle, or it may be that you are really struggling, I mean, to the point of being. Paralyzed, you know, or you're somewhere in between where it's not that you're paralyzed, but it seems like you keep coming back to that.
That is your that is your default setting. Yeah, that no matter how much you hear, you go right back to it. No matter where you are. Just know that we haven't truly understood the complexity of the human mind or the human heart. That's a great point, too.
We haven't.
So don't let's let.
Some Researcher or scholar, even if they are Christian, make it look like, you know. This is it. This is it for you. The truth shall set you free. I want to operate from that principle.
Right. From that Truth from the Bible. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. And truth is not just an idea, truth is a person, truth is Jesus. That's right.
So, We have to If you're struggling with it, we have to constantly receive the truth of God. means daily spending time in in the Bible Is a must. I think it says a lot about our culture today and our society where truth, because we talk a lot about Jesus' model for living, finding favor with God and people, which is to have truth and mercy. Or you could even substitute that today with truth and kindness. And we're living in a world today where kindness is king at the expense of truth.
We want to get truth out of here. This is my truth, and that might be your truth, and never the twain shall meet. But kindness is king. And I think what you're saying is not only is truth important, but truth is so critical. Truth is really the antidote, the antidote.
To what we're seeing in our world today. Yeah, and daily, not only doing the word, I mean, listen to the word, but also. Spending time hearing the word of God, listening to messages. There are a lot of people who are struggling with problems, they haven't gone to the church. Mm-hmm.
And I get it.
Some churches may not be meeting the need that you have.
Well, find another one. Find another Bible-believing, gospel-believing, Christ-honoring church.
So don't just stay there. If that doesn't work, go somewhere. But staying home and saying, I'm just not going to do it for a while. It's not a good solution. Because then truth is not coming towards you.
That's right. You're not hearing the word of God. What is the motivation behind people who are struggling with depression or struggling with anxiety, struggling with these worries to isolate, to keep to themselves and not find, not seek help or not seek answers? People. They don't want to be around people because people sometimes raise the anxiety level.
Because if you're already struggling with anxiety, then.
Someone looks at you wrong, or someone doesn't come over to speak to you, or whatever happens, or you see someone that you had a previous Um Sort of a uncomfortable encounter, and maybe it's like a really bad encounter or just um Not very pleasant. You just don't want it to be a trigger in your life.
So I'm just going to stay away and maintain my peace or whatever. But that's not, it's not. going to help you. You have to hear the truth. Think about it as as a water.
You know, washing of the water by the word. as the water begins to repeatedly hit you, And it may take Months, sometimes it takes years. But it begins to wash and clean that untruth that is coding your mind and your heart. Again, I don't want to make it too simple. There might be medications needed at times.
I get it. You may have to go to a Christian Bible-based therapy and counseling, Okay, that's all part of this. I'm not saying. Just hear the message. And it will solve all your problems.
Or just do your devotions, and it'll solve all your problems. What I'm saying is. The more And repeatedly and consistently, you're hearing the truth, it will do its work. That's right. That's right.
It will do its work. Unfortunately, Even Christians, pastors, and counselors fall into the trap. Like, no, it's the truth, it's not what they need. It's not more preaching they need. It's not more Bible study they need.
They need something different. Why do you think that is? Why would we fall into such an obvious trap? Like that the world has set the world has laid that because the world is so convincing in telling you, look at the data. It doesn't work.
You're saying the truth will set them free because sometimes they will take an aberration of that practice.
Some preacher just preaching at you, or some mom or dad just beating you over the head with some truth principle again and again. They go, That it doesn't help me. It doesn't work for me.
Okay, I hear you. But then find something and pray for something that would be more biblical. Right. That instance did not work for you, but that doesn't mean biblical preaching and Bible-based counsel doesn't work overall. Right.
Right. And so. We succumb to the world saying, This doesn't work. And we go, Okay, okay, okay, all right, all right. All right, I'll back off.
We'll do it your way. And maybe Okay. We need to stop and say, yeah, certain things are not good or done that way, are not helpful, but done the right way. are helpful. Mm-hmm.
They do make a difference and they do help people.
So, have you seen people like in your practice, like when people, and when I say practice, I mean like your pastoral counseling? And maybe this is even a question for Nicole, who have completely come out of depression. Like, I'm depressed for a season. Then I'm back to my normal self and I can live my life. Or do you think this is something that you will always sort of struggle with?
it will always sort of be with you, but God can lift you out in those seasons. It depends on the kind of depression people are going through.
Sometimes it's chemical imbalance. And so getting that kind of a chemical care, but in the right Um And not for For some kind of dependency, yeah, it can definitely help people come out of it.
Sometimes it is not as severe or hasn't gone to that point, and they are able to hear the truth and be around godly fellowship, and they're able to come out of it.
Some people, I mean, think about Charles Spurgeon. He had repeated bouts of depression.
So what would you say to him? I mean, if any man knew the truth, he did. But he he succumbed to that. What was the source or cause of it? I've done some reading on his situation.
Some of it might be just his personality.
Some of it was his physical constitution. We don't know. Uh he he You know, we we don't know for sure.
So Different I guess different strokes for different folks. Yeah. Do you think that personality plays a big part in? Like, could we have a melancholic personality? But not be depressed.
Does that make sense? Like, have you ever met people who are like, I think they're just a, they're just like an Eeyore, but they don't have clinical depression? Yeah, yeah, I I I do get it. I mean, and and there are people who who like Kierkegaard, right?
Soren Kierkegaard had that melancholic personality and he struggled with that. And yeah, it can happen. I do get it. Um And so For them, I mean, as as Paul talks about that, you know, sing psalms, sing spiritual songs. Yeah, meditate on the things that are true and noble and just all those things.
I think that falls into that clarification between people who are depressed versus those who have depression. Yeah. You know, there are people who have that ongoing pervasive struggle, kind of like you said, with there's some chemical issues there. Versus people who are depressed about a particular instance or a particular season in life. Yeah, it's different.
And that's where I'm okay with the complexity. Right. That's where I'm okay with that. Yeah, we need to understand the complexity of the problem, but don't. be so won over by the complexity argument of the world Or the scholars in the field to say, yes, to say, oh, then our solutions may not meet your need.
Right. Well, do we also think that the Bible, who is ultimately authored by God through the hands of men, do we not think that that's complex enough to meet the complexity of the human mind and heart? The author of the Bible, who is also the author of mankind. Absolutely. Just because our solution is simple does not mean that it is not.
it's not standing on some very complex and deep Um Facts.
So uh like right now I am projecting The image from my iPad, like scriptures, onto a screen in front of me. It's very simple. I can. Plug this and go. But to make it happen, there was so much that had to take place.
The TV had to be installed. This cable had to be installed and brought over here. And then, of course, I mean, if you want to talk about iPad, I mean, somebody had to invent this iPad and create this technology that now. Can create these images that go to this cable and get on the TV.
So it's a very complex thing, but when I come in here, I don't say, hey, how am I going to see that? Oh, I just got to. Plug this in and I'm good to go. You're good to go, yeah. Yeah, that's all you have to do.
It's just plug this in and good to go, and you can see it. That's a good point. That's a better illustration. Yeah. Yeah, that is true.
But behind it, it is a very, very intricate. Truth. And facts that are science that is taking place.
So, also with Christian principles. On the surface it may seem oh, it's too simple. Too simple. No, behind it. Is some very, very intricate, complex truths about life and God and salvation that.
That are taking place. I think you're right. We're almost out of time, but Dr. Shah, the people who are listening, who are saying, This is me, I am in this struggle. I'm in the thick of it.
I'm having a hard time with this. What are some actionable steps you would give them to begin to train their mind to focus on the things above, like Paul said, versus the situation they're dealing with?
Well, just recognize that we are prone to sin. And through Christ, we can overcome that problem. We are also still living in this world that is full of the lures. which only leave us Hurting and hunting for more and doesn't satisfy us.
So, also, there is the enemy. I know sometimes the enemy will be as simple as get your mind on a negative thing.
Sometimes the enemy will hold you in a chokehold. And so. There are All these factors against us, but just know. That to Christ we are more than conquerors. Amen.
And that is a truth. And you can base your life and eternity on it. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clear View Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors, the Blue Ultra Pure Water, and Mighty Muscadine, for making today's episode possible.
Don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts from. You can also support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to close with today? Definitely want to encourage you guys to follow drshawnpray.com. We just passed 40,000 followers.
We're so grateful for all of you. Thank you for giving. Thank you for supporting the ministry and supporting all of our shows, not just Plea V today, but all of our shows and all of our content. Very much appreciate it. I want to encourage the rest of you: let's go ahead and get us to 50,000 followers by the end of this month.
I think we can do it. We're gonna have a very special celebration episode once we do. That's right, we love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Three Today.
