You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Studio.
Welcome to our space. Welcome to our home. Welcome to our home. This is our humble abode, and we are here with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show, Dr.
Shah.
So good to see you. It's good to be here. Studio audience loves you, my friend. Take a bow, man. Just take a bow.
I'm speeching. Speech. Bowing. Hey, guys, calm down. Calm down.
Calm down. It's good to see everybody. Quick update, quick reminder before we jump into today's topic. Tomorrow, Tomorrow's a big day type show. Tomorrow is our live stream.
That's right. It's our 24-hour prayer vigil. That's right. Something we look forward to throughout the year. And we have it all together three times.
Three times. And now we have started something that you actually you, John, brought up to do a live Call in prayer time. Yes. Yep.
So people will call. We'll have a number for you. We'll go live on Facebook. We'll go live on YouTube. And we'll go live on our website.
So that's three platforms you can watch them on. I would maybe urge you to go towards the website side of things. But if you want to check us out on YouTube or Facebook, that's completely fine as well. But we'll have a number for you. You can call in.
You can send that number, share that stream. That's the whole point is to get people to call in and let us pray for them on the air.
So we'll be doing that tomorrow night. Yeah, and we talk all the time about it being a family of listeners and viewers. And this is a chance for us to share those burdens that are on your heart and a chance for us to join together in prayer. And one thing we often stress and want to clarify is. Is that we're not going to mention names.
Correct. We won't even ask you for your name. We don't ask for your name. We don't ask for the particulars of what you want us to pray for. They're general prayers.
That's right. So, yeah, you can share about relationship issues and you can share about health issues. You can share about. Spiritual matters, but we do not specify who you are, where you're from, or what relationship that person has. We don't want to get into all those particulars to protect your anonymity.
That's right. So, we are very, very sensitive about that. And we have done a great job so. I mean, you guys have done a great job so far.
So, well, you as well. You as well. And people call in because they trust you. You know, they trust this team. And it's really great for us as well.
Number one, because it's really fun to be doing like live shows and live radio. It's the closest to live radio I think we've actually gotten. But I think God has some things on the horizon for us as far as live radio goes. But it's also fun to know, like, we, the three of us, sit here and we talk and we kind of hope that people are impacted by it. We hope that people are out there listening.
And we see, of course, the numbers on Pray.com go up. But at the end of the day, you know, those are like they're numbers on a screen. They're demographics.
So it's cool to hear people call. Call in and say, hey, thank you for praying for us. Hear the voice on the other end of the phone and to know that there is a relationship there. That's special.
So that's happening tomorrow from 7 to 9 p.m. I got a quick question for you guys before we start today.
So, this is a segment on our show where we talk about some of the embarrassing, cringeworthy, painful things that have happened to us. Dr. Shah, for the first time since April, I got back in the gym yesterday.
Well, good for you. Good for you. Thank you. I got to tell you, I felt great. I really thought I was going to go in there and like not even be able to lift anything, but it was like slipping on an old glove.
It felt really good. Were you at the same place that you were when you exited the last time? No, but I was not as far down as I thought as you thought you were. I hit 135 on the incline, and I'm not going to lie, that was a struggle. Wow.
It didn't used to be a struggle. That's that was, I would hit like maybe 145, 150.
So I dropped down about like 10 pounds and I could not hit the full rate. Easily get back. Yes. Easily get back. I thought for sure I would like be really struggling, but it wasn't as much.
But no, I was not. Plus, you're young. True.
So that makes a huge difference. If I did not go to the gym for five months, it would be a struggle. Yeah, it was. I mean, not that I would be like be lifted. I mean, but it won't be.
from 150 to 135 it would be much different well the embarrassing part was not that i couldn't lift the weight here's what happened i i had to do chest flies right you know the chest fly you get on the machine you come out like this squeeze it and you squeeze it in i love it it's a great finisher i wanted to do it and there's a woman working out on the floor like doing stretches and stuff on the floor she's very close to the machine so i'm like oh well i'll just do something else but i look at my app and i'm like oh this is the last thing so i'm like i'm just gonna hang out go get some water i come back in like five minutes she's still there she's just right there at the machine she's doing her stretches and i was like well i don't want to make her uncomfortable because you know women in the gym they feel like you know they want their space. That's right. And that's sh and that's yeah. That's the right thing. I see her notice me and she likes scooches, but I think it's that thing in her mind where it's like she thought she was scooching, but really she just bounced.
You know what I mean? She was like, oh. And she didn't move at all.
So I was like, okay, I'll just kind of be direct.
So I went up to her. I was like, hey, do you mind if I work out on this machine? She was like, yeah, go ahead. I was like, okay, I just didn't want you to be uncomfortable. She was like, oh, thanks.
No, I'm good. I scooted it over for you. I was like, okay, come on. You didn't. All right.
So, like, I get on the machine. And I'm like going ahead and doing my set, but she's still like right there, like maybe, maybe three feet away from me, very close doing these stretches. Too close. And so I'm like, now I'm uncomfortable.
So I'm like, okay. And she notices me like stalling, and she looks at me, it takes her apart. She's like, hey, you're not making me uncomfortable. You're okay. And I felt like I couldn't say, I'm uncomfortable.
You're stretching like three feet away from me. And like, I just, I was like, I was like, I'm good. I was like, I might, I might hit something else and then come back. She was like, oh, okay.
Well, yeah, fine.
So it was already awkward, right?
So I'm like, I need to do something with my hands. I reach down and pick up my water and just start drinking it. It was her water. Oh, no.
Now she is uncomfortable.
Now everybody's uncomfortable. Did she know that you drank her water? She did, but she, bless her heart, she didn't say anything. She saw me. Watched me put it down and was like, okay.
And this went back to her exercise. And then when I looked at it, I reached over to pick up my bag, and there was my water inside my bag. I said, oh my God, this could not have gone on. Did you clarify it to her? No, I got it.
We just got to make it flesh. I fled the premises. Just vacate. I went back in the free weight room with David, waited until I saw her leave and get in her car. And then I went and did Chesla.
Oh, no.
It was as bad. Have you ever had like a bet? Like a real bad thing.
So here's a question. Yeah. Did you see the water bottle still in her hand or did she throw it away? No, she left it on the ground. She saw me pick up her water.
Like, it wasn't like a hopefully she didn't know. She watched me drink her water. And then she's like, now it's yours. Yeah. She just won't have to watch it.
She put her AirPod back in, went back to her stretches. I just left the free, that was the machine room. Went back in the free weight room and just waited. And I watched out the window. This was creepy.
I watched out the window and watched her walk to her car. Then I went and did the.
Well, you know what? I mean, she could have made a big deal about it. Like, I can't believe you drank my water. But she was like, she was nice. She was gracious.
She was nice because I told her, I said, hey, I don't want to make you. Uncomfortable. She was like, No, no, no, you're very sweet. Go ahead and work out. And then she even said, You're not making me uncomfortable.
But the whole thing was a travesty. Have you ever, have you ever, uh, David just said, I wondered why you were staring out the window. Have you ever had something like that happen to you in the gym? Yeah, I mean, Jim, maybe Jim, there are times if people are too close on the machines, I will find something else to do. Or just like a situation where it's like, that couldn't have been more awkward.
Yeah, that's happened before. Being right there, and so, you know, people are doing this and doing that, and you're like, no, I don't want to be standing right in front of you doing these. Even though I'm per perf perfectly, you know. legitimate in being right there because it's a machine and it's Five feet away, I'm not going to stand in front of you. Yeah, it has this.
And it's also like, it's also like the icing on the cake. Like, this is a really awkward situation. I'm going to leave, but I'm going to trip on the way out. Anyway, that was my day yesterday. You know what it reminds me of?
It reminds me of that sound that's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, there's just everything going wrong.
Something falls over, something breaks. There's a noise. This right here. That's the one. That several things just kind of bonk.
That was me drinking her water and then slipping on a banana peel out the door, falling into a mop bucket. Yikes. Yikes. So, I guess the answer to the question is, yes, you did do that. Yeah, oh, I did that for sure.
Yeah, our verse of the day today comes to us from Romans chapter 8, verse 37: Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. I needed to hear that. That's a verse that we love to take and just kind of. Yeah, because I felt like I got conquered by life yesterday, but I do love this verse, and I love that Paul is saying that. You know, didn't you say that?
Paul didn't write this from prison, right? Paul didn't write Romans from prison. He was writing from Corinth.
So so he's in a I mean, he's in a tough situation.
Well, he is still on a mission trip and he is about to head back to Jerusalem. And um He is writing this letter, hoping that everything will go well in Jerusalem, and so that he can then launch out into this. Final mission trip headed towards Rome, maybe even towards Spain.
So. It is a difficult season in his life because he knows a lot is going to happen when he goes to Jerusalem, and now he has to go back.
So, yeah, there's. It's a difficult time, but he's not in prison right now, right? I guess, I guess, I'm just thinking like all the things that Paul went through in his life, the faith that he had to be able to say we're more than conquerors. Yes, yes, it's just a great verse, it is. And what is very important for us to remember is that the Greek verb huper nikau, I mean, nikkei is victory, hooper is overwhelming, but huper nikau is a plural verb.
So it's not just I am completely victorious or I overwhelmingly conquer. It is we are completely victorious. We are overcomers, more than conquerors.
So, what we need to remember is the plurality there. It's not like I've overcome this. Yes, we often think about it in our individual self. Like, I am Jesus, I can overcome anything. I am.
And My therapist, we can overcome whatever. That's not how Paul is intending this. He's talking to the whole congregation in Corinth, I'm sorry, in Rome. Maybe also to the Corinthians that we together Are more than conquerors through Jesus Christ who loved us. That changes the way that you see that verse and the way that you apply it.
It no longer becomes a, I'm going to write this in my Instagram bio because I just ran a race, or I'm going to put this on the back of my jersey. It's we as believers together are conquering in the Christian life because of what God has done for us. Absolutely. You know, God. Community is very important when it comes to overcoming incredible odds in life.
Do you think there's a lot of people who, I think that. I probably know the answer to this, but there's people who shy away from community because of their upbringing or because of their family or because of whatever. They feel like. I don't know how to trust other people because of whatever happened to me. I need to go this Christian life alone.
Yeah, and they are. They're right because genuinely people are what hurts us, what hurt us. It's not. Animals or things or objects or machines or nature. It's people.
People. And of course, things can hurt us. A fire can burn us. And a wild animal can bite us. or a tornado can destroy us, but People are Who hurt us deeply within.
And so. It's very tempting to back away from people, to get into a little bubble and say, you know what? I'm not going to deal with people anymore. I'm not going to deal with this community that I was in, whether it was church or a club, or when I say club, I'm not talking about like a dancing club. Like a nightclub.
I'm talking about like a club as in A civic organization or Your family, because your family is that first community that we find when we come into this world. We want to be less like, you know what? I'm done, I'm out. I'm just going to do my own thing. I'm going to work.
I'm going to enjoy life. I'm gonna travel, I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna grow. I'm gonna just do me. And that's all I need because the moment I bring other people into my life, Then all of a sudden I'm vulnerable. Right.
All of a sudden I get hurt. All of a sudden now I have Nights with no sleep.
Now I have to figure things out in my head how I'm going to solve this problem. How I'm going to make this person happy. I know I'm approaching it from a completely different worldview, but I don't even see how that can be a short-term.
Solution. Like, I don't, I don't see how a person could last two months living like that. Right. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not just saying that like.
Oh, that's so like, I don't know how you go your whole life without involving other people intimately in your life. I think it has to do with people viewing how they were brought up and how they were raised, their view of their family. You know, it's trendy and it's popular to use terms like dysfunctional and traumatized and things like that. But how we think about those formative years and how we process the things that happen in those formative years greatly impacts not just our view of ourselves, but our view of other people as we move into adulthood. Absolutely.
I think that's where it begins. That's where it begins. There might be a hurt in the family, maybe when you were really young, or as a teenager, or if your family went through a divorce, or some sickness, or some death, or some breakdown in some relationship, or some estrangement happened, and all of a sudden, you you are hurt and nobody Took the proper steps to help you navigate through that. Trauma Through that tragedy, nobody took the time to guide you, and even if they did. They did it improperly.
Yeah. I think that's a great point, Dr. Shah, because a lot of what I hear on the internet and what I hear about just even people who talk about trauma is that it's really important to talk about your trauma, and that's about it. Tell the story. Tell people how you're traumatized.
There's not really, and maybe I'm off on this, but there's not really any focus on healing. There's not any focus on getting back to being a functioning member of a community. It's all about just recounting the story of what happened to me so that you understand my trauma.
Well, it seems almost like your brokenness becomes your identity. Right. I think that's a great point you made. There's a difference between experience and identity. That's a great point.
Trauma. I have trauma, you have trauma. My trauma is not your trauma. Your trauma is not my trauma. That's experience.
Right. But when it becomes. We're all traumatized.
Now your experience becomes your identity. Right. There is a big difference between, yes, I had trauma, to We are all traumatized, or I am traumatized. To put it a little differently, We're all dysfunctional. Which is a fact, and we're going to maybe talk about that if that's okay later on.
Please. What does that mean that we're all dysfunctional? That's an experience. And just so that nobody You know, tunes off the show right now. But what we're talking about is: if you believe what the Bible says, we're all born dead in trespasses and sins.
If you believe that Adam and Eve sinned and trauma came in under the judgment and under sin, and look at what happened in that family, then of course we are all dysfunctional because the same DNA is running through all of us.
So, in that sense, we are all dysfunctional. That's an experience versus my family is dysfunctional. Right. Now that's our identity. Right.
That's our core. Yes. Now, your family may be dysfunctional, but be very slow to. Quickly jumping to conclusions, saying, This person did this, and they're toxic. And That's why we're dysfunctional.
Oh, this person did that. And now we're toxic. And or dysfunctional. you know, a uh psy psychologist by the name of Sherry Campbell, she said it this way. She said, toxic people Are very bad people with good moments.
That's a great definition. Yeah. Toxic people are very bad people with good moments. They're not good people. With bad moments.
I think she's right because I can imagine like even my bad moments They're not like flare-ups of anger I might have like a couple weeks of just going through some really bad stuff Or just not being in the right mindset not reading my Bible not praying and so like if anybody met me just for two weeks like for those two weeks if they met me and then like went home They would go home and be like he's like that all the time. He's just toxic at his core. Yeah. Where it's like, no, I had a toxic couple of weeks that I needed to get right with God. Yeah.
Yeah. You're right. We're looking back, you know, you can, you see things that your parents did or didn't do and you're like, gosh, my mom was so toxic. My dad was so toxic, they did these things. Could it be that your parents were doing the best they could with what they had in front of them?
Did they make mistakes? Sure. No parents are perfect, but maybe they're not quite as toxic as you would label them or as the world would have you label them. Exactly. You have to ask that question and answer that question sincerely and with integrity.
With integrity. Are they really bad people? Or are they good people who had bad moments? Yeah, good point. And if you truly can answer that question with sincerity, integrity, standing before God in humility and honesty, then you can say, yes, they were bad people with good moments.
Okay, now maybe You need to break off that relationship. Yeah, true. Maybe you need to walk away from that. Maybe you were in a toxic situation. You were in a dysfunctional home.
Nothing good can be salvaged. Move on, find grace, find hope, find healing. Don't look back. That's what you need to do. But if you're buying into the world's definition, which is coming Very much through social media right now.
I mean, would you agree with that? I mean, what's happening in social media? 100%. 100%. I mean, think about these, let's just pick TikTok.
I don't have a TikTok account, so people sometimes will send you TikTok. Send me TikTok. Check this out. Yeah, they do. Yeah.
They do. And it's great because it's like a, sometimes it's something like. very witty that someone said about church or preaching or or sin or whatever. And it's like, check it out, check it out And I'm like, Well, well, I will. You can't watch it.
I'm gonna have to give that link to someone else, like At the staff, because we have a TikTok account as a church where we put our sermon reels and worship reels out, and then I can watch it. But Why don't uh why do I not have TikTok? I'll tell you why. Because for one, it's And I'm speaking from America. It is a foreign owned Platform And It's owned by a country which.
is doing everything possible to harass Americans. And what they've done over the past few years, some of the things that have come have been horrendous, and they've tried to fragment the American family. And And you see that on TikTok, especially with young people. Absolutely. Everything is very much: blame your parents for this.
Your parents did this wrong. Your identity is what you have suffered. And it's almost like a badge of honor to label yourself as traumatized or label yourself as damaged or broken because we all are.
So own that and let that be part of your story. That's not at all what scripture tells us how to think about the things that we've endured. Sure, we go through bad things. Sure, we go through difficult experiences. But how you process that and your worldview greatly impacts your ability to recover from those things.
Everybody wants you to think that social media is a fun platform to express yourself. And that is what it's masqueraded as. But I mean, from personal experience, I can tell you it's a tool to change you and to alter your mind. I was way more argumentative. I was way more proud when I was on Reddit.
And then I got off of Reddit and I got onto TikTok, and then TikTok did the same thing. Because that's what that's the kind of stuff that it was showing me. It was constantly showing me people debating and people arguing. Let me ask you something. Yeah, go for it.
Let me ask you something. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, baba. Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's like, you know, and I've seen those videos, and I'm like, yep. Wow.
Who are you? Who are you? Who are you that you are so confident and so convincing or trying to really. It's condescending, by the way. Yes, 100%.
The funny thing, this is how the algorithm of TikTok works. And there's masterminds behind this, I'm sure. But I never saw any of those videos. You would talk to me about videos you were seeing. And I'm like, I've never once seen anything like that on TikTok because the kind of content that you engage with, that's what it'll continue to put in front of you.
So what it puts in front of me is very much like, we need to love people and support like, because I follow a lot of theater accounts, support LGBTQ, support trans communities, like all that kind of stuff.
So I'm just constantly swiping and pressing hold. No, I'm not interested in this. But it's based on your likes, the things that you follow, the profiles that you engage with.
So it kind of. Curates that content for you. And it does it so quickly and so subtly, you're not even aware of it. Mine was very much. Like family dynamics, like we're talking about.
Husbands do better. You're trash. You don't understand what your wife goes through. Just, and then, and then women complaining about their husbands, and their husbands are trash, and their husbands don't understand how much it takes to be a mom. And a lot of it was from that one that we posted about the, uh, about like not getting the groceries in, and that one blew up.
And so a lot of like angry women got in, and TikTok was like, okay, this is the content that he wants. And so a lot of it was, um, Was just angry, resentful. People, mostly women, but men and women too. But it was very much like what you're talking about: dysfunctional family dynamics, which is that dads, men, you are the ones making your. Holmes dysfunction.
You're toxic. Yeah. It's masqueraded as we want the algorithm to serve you and the kind of content that you engage with. But really, it's pushing you further in that direction. It is.
And it will change you. And it's changing our young people. It's changing our teenagers. Yeah. Psychologist Nick Hoslam wrote: he wrote: the bar for qualifying as trauma today is much lower.
So, anything and everything can be traumatic. And so. Why is this relevant? Because in America, when everything becomes traumatic, then everybody is a victim. Gone is an experience.
Now, this is the identity. And I believe having studied this for a while and heard stories and experienced some of these some of the repercussions of some of these things, this is a psychological attack on The United States. I agree. From a foreign agency. I 100% agree.
Absolutely. And I wonder. And of course, for those of you who are wondering, who I'm talking about, China. Yeah. Yeah.
So, yeah. I don't think at this point, if you don't know who's behind TikTok, you've probably don't need to be on it. Get up with the times a little bit more. But I think about our young people, we're talking about Gen Z specifically. Because like me, like I'm in my 30s, and only after like being on TikTok for a couple years did I have the wherewithal to be like, wait a minute, this has changed me.
I don't like this. Think about like a 16-year-old. Right. Think about this per like a 15, 16-year-old girl who doesn't have that and is like, no, this is just me. Or this is reality.
This is the world around me. And I'm being told that who I am is wrong. Like, I should, like, I am traumatized, but nobody wants to hear it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
Like, they're so warped in their Gen Z, who had TikTok drop in their generation. And then you have Jen Alpha who's growing up with it. Yeah. Yeah. True.
So what is needed is a true. When I say true, I'm talking about biblical and latest scientific understanding on this subject of. Family dysfunction, trauma. Um You know, all of these things, we need to have a Biblical and scientific. When I say scientific, I'm talking about the latest psychological research, not something from.
50 years ago, or even 20 years ago, right now, what is the cutting edge? And when I say cutting edge, it's not some fad or some trend. I'm referring to good, solid, balanced. Um Research. Let's talk about where does trauma come from?
What qualifies as trauma? And a couple of years ago, I did a series on this. It was called Inside Out. And you're welcome to go find it on our website in YouTube. It's there.
It was a three week series. Uh but I want to focus a little bit more on this functionality. And How important that is for us to have a proper understanding, an objective understanding, a biblical and scientific understanding, and then also see. That trauma is real. But it requires A community to help us in the healing process.
Yeah, that's true. It's not one-on-one. Um You know, a cure. It's not just me and Jesus, or me, Jesus, and my counselor, or me, Jesus, and my therapist. It's about a healing community.
Now, Dr. Fred Gingrich, who was my wife's mentor, professor, in fact, both he and his wife both are. doctorates in, um in counseling and therapy.
So, when my wife was finishing her master's, one of the books that she had to read was an edited work by. Gingrich and Gingrich, called Treating Trauma in Christian Counseling. And Dr. Fred Gingrich wrote the chapter titled Strengthening Family Resilience in Trauma. Strengthening Family Resilience in Trauma.
And this is what he says: he said, even in an increasingly disconnected contemporary culture, Even in an increasingly disconnected contemporary culture, family relationships, including marriages and extended family, are often A victim's Primary healing community. whether they live in individualistic or collectivist cultures. A victim's family. And here when we're talking about victim, we're referring to children or teenagers or young adults growing up in a family. The family Is the healing community.
So, if I'm hearing you correctly, and I know we gotta wrap up after this, but. Often, if someone goes through trauma, they're like, I need to get away from my family, go see a therapist, go see a counselor. Or even family does that. It's like, we got to take you to a therapist, we got to get you to a counselor.
Now, we need to also discuss. What kinds of traumas can a family Experience or an individual in a family experience growing up. And maybe that's something we can discuss next week. Yeah, sure. What kind of traumas they can experience.
So, based on that, Families have to decide.
Okay. This, I think we can discuss this. No, wait. I think we need to talk to our pastor. I think we need to ask our pastor to recommend some Christian Bible-based counseling.
The families can decide that. But does not mean for a single moment that your family is absolved from. participating in the healing process. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that's a great point.
Great, great point. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow so we can continue today's discussion. We're going to be diving into this topic a little bit further on tomorrow's episode. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. Don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts from.
And you can also support us financially at Abadanshot.com forward slash give. John, what do you want to close with today? Definitely just want to see you guys on the live stream tomorrow from 7 to 9 p.m. Facebook, YouTube, ClearviewBC.org. That's where we're going to be streaming to.
We want to pray with you guys, so make sure you call in on that number we give you. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
