Remembering the Life and Ministry of John MacArthur

You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. My name is John Galantis, and as always, I want to welcome you to the Clearview Today studio with our host with the most, Dr. Abadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr.

Shah, welcome to the studio today, my friends. It's good to be here. Doing well, I am. Doing well, doing well. It's kind of a sad day.

We're going to talk about that here in a little bit, but I did want to start with some good news. We have a good encouraging word. Two encouraging words. One of them is from the Word of God. One of them is from a listener.

This is in response, I think, to the episode we did a couple weeks back, maybe it was last week. On someone wrote in and said, you know, I feel like I want to go into the ministry, but I feel like it's too late. I'm too old. And you said, you know, first and foremost, this person was in their mid-40s. That's not too old.

But then someone else, that episode actually, surprisingly on audio, did really well. Like that one got way more downloads than our other ones off the bat. And so, someone left a comment on Pray.com. This is Esther Kay. I did not look up what state she was from, but maybe I'll put that in the notes later if anyone's interested.

But Esther K says, I was saved at six, surrendered at 47. Don't wait to surrender. It's a whole different life. It's not easy, but it's fruitful. I've never felt more loved and connected.

All I had to do was give up myself, abide in him, and do the thing. And do. Oh, okay. All I had to do was give up myself, abide in him, and do. The do gets easier.

He gives me little missions. I do the things, and it's like I unlocked a new level for fellow gamers. He starts us off in easy mode. I like that. I like that.

Yeah, that helps. That helps. Made it very contemporary. And we really appreciate that because your interaction with us tells us that people who are listening, but also that they are engaging and they find what we're teaching is not only biblical, but also relevant. That's right, it's relevant to their lives.

And I love that people are seeing. See, for so long, you know, you've always had a platform. You've been on radio for a good while. You've been in broadcasting and you've been doing this thing, but it seems like the circle of influence was relatively small to our state, maybe the larger triangle area. But now, you know, with Truth Network and being on Pray.com, the conversation is getting much, much, much wider.

That's correct. With that comes so many people with all these different stories in their lives. And we're very, very grateful. Of course, we're grateful to God. Without God, none of this is possible.

All these things are gadgets. All this is just information. But with God's hand upon us, is why we're being blessed. That's right. And this ministry is going further.

And we are not only glorifying Christ, but also. You know, bringing God's word to the people. That's right. That's what we're doing and engaging our culture in issues that are important right now to our nation, to our world, to the church. That's right.

So that's, I'm so grateful that people are listening.

Well, I'm grateful for your heart, and I'm grateful for this mission that you have to bring God's word. In fact, why don't we start off with God's Word right now? Psalm 116, verse 15, sort of frames the entire conversation we're going to have today. Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints. And I think anybody who's, at least if you're listening on the radio, maybe you don't know, but if you saw the title of this episode, of course, we're taking the time today to talk about the life and ministry of John MacArthur.

That's right. John MacArthur passed away, I think, yesterday morning. And this morning, we're. you know, the day we're recording this. But, you know, he's a longtime pastor, teacher, author.

You know, it's no, he obviously left a very significant mark on Christianity and the evangelical landscape. Did you ever meet John MacArthur? Yes, actually, I did get a chance to see him for the first time at a pastor's conference in Jacksonville, Florida. This is back in, my goodness, in, I want to say 1998. Dr.

Shah, I was six years old. Yeah, I know. I saw him from a distance and I was like, oh my goodness, that guy is, there's John MacArthur, all gray hair. And I thought he looked old. Wow.

But. No, he was still a lot of kicking. Yeah, I mean, he was going to go on to live for another 30 years, and I thought he was looking old at the time. Wow. But then.

I had the opportunity to um Uh, sit across from him in a PhD seminar, and I think it was in the early 2000s, somewhere there. Wow, and he came to one of our seminars and he just sat there and allowed people to ask him questions. Just so he was a guest, he was a guest. Did he have a PhD? No.

Okay. No.

Okay. He never got an earned doctorate. Gotcha. And maybe we can talk about that in a moment. Sure.

But he was given honorary doctorates.

Okay. And I mean, I think he could have earned it, but he never had an earned doctorate. Gotcha. Gotcha. So he was sitting in our seminar, and I asked him a question.

I don't know what I asked him about. I just wanted to like. You're right, to say that you asked him. Yeah, I asked Lisa. I have no idea what I asked him.

But he was very gracious. He turned around and he looked at me and he talked to me for good. Three, four minutes answering that question. Wow. That's really awesome.

So that was my one and only encounter with John MacArthur. That. I've done that too, where like you're meeting someone and like they kind of open it up and it's like, I don't really have anything I want to know, but I want to say that I had this interaction. I've definitely done that. My first ever, ever encounter With John MacArthur, not in person, was when I was probably, I would say, maybe 10 years old.

Wow. So, my dad used to get his tapes from Grace to You Ministries. This is back in the early 80s, and I was in India. And so, I remember walking by dad's room, and he would have tapes from, of course, John MacArthur and Chuck Swindall, and a lot of these giants, you know, at one time. And Chuck Swindall is still going.

Still there. He's still going to be there. You just met him last year? Yeah, we met this year. We met him back in February.

February, yeah.

So, anyway, so I. I remember Hearing his voice. And then I remember picking up a tape one time and seeing his name, John MacArthur Jr. Grace to you, ministries. And then I left it.

And then through the years, I would hear it on and off, you know. when dad was listening to him. When I came here And even then It's not like I heard about John MacArthur. It's when I met Nicole's dad. That's when I began to hear about, oh, yeah, I know John MacArthur.

I've heard that name before. Oh, wait. Yeah, my dad used to listen to him.

So that's how. I've known him about him at least. 40 years? Yeah, he's certainly made an impact on, you know, like I said, the evangelical landscape. And his voice is familiar to everybody through his Grace to You broadcast and his books and his preaching ministry.

He was the pastor of Grace Community. That's right. Where is that? This is in California. And he was there, my goodness, over 50 years.

The only, I think, see, like, I got saved in 2007, and I was 15 years old. And so I never really, I never really got into, and I was always drawn more towards the music side of things.

So I didn't really know about John MacArthur until I met you. And I think one of the first books you gave me, well, you gave me two. You gave me a Warren Weersby study Bible and a John MacArthur study. I still haven't. Yeah.

And I actually, I think I gave the John MacArthur study Bible to, I either gave it to my brother-in-law or I sent him a link to one as well. But I guess all that to say, I'm. I've lived a lot of my Christian life unfamiliar with John MacArthur. Right. And so maybe there's a lot of people listening to the show now who are in the same boat.

You know, we think that, oh, of course, that's John MacArthur. Everybody knows him. But maybe, you know, maybe they don't. Do you want to just kind of give us a rundown of his life and sure, sure? And again, just because we're covering him here does not mean that we 100% or I 100% agree with him on everything.

You don't. I don't even 100% agree with myself.

So there are places that I will point out later on where I would say, in this particular theology, I feel like he wasn't right. And which particular theology, I mean, we can talk about that. But then there are many places that he was right on when it came to the word of God. He was right on, and he was courageous. He was bold, and he was speaking out.

On the truth. And so we need to make sure. Where it matters that we say, Yes, well done. You know, he's going to hear well done from the Lord. And then there are places you have to say, I'm not sure.

Yeah. He hit the mark there. I do remember one, before you get launched into it, I do remember one instance. I saw him. Debate Ben Shapiro.

I remember that. He did an episode on Ben Shapiro. And I don't know if it was a debate, but he was presenting the gospel of Jesus to Ben Shapiro. And Ben Shapiro was like, of course, I have heard the gospel of Jesus, but. More or less, in other words, give it your best shot in a respectful sort of way.

And I don't think he, I know he didn't succeed in converting Ben Shapiro to Christianity, but that was one of the one, that was one of the very few long-form interviews or debates, if you want to call it that, that I actually wanted to. And I do remember being impressed with his delivery and with his style, and the whole thing was very friendly and amicable. But other than that, I have almost no. knowledge of John MacArthur's life and ministry. Right.

So he he was um he grew up in a pastor's home. In fact, he has several generations back, he has pastors in the family.

So I mean, it's like Third or fourth or fifth generation pastoring pastoring.

So it was sort of written in stone what he would do.

Well, not really. I mean, he wanted to play football. Really? Yeah. He and he even played football.

Okay. And then he ended up going to Bob Jones. And Bob Jones didn't have football at the time.

So he sort of stopped that. His dad wanted him to go to Bob Jones. Do you think they have football now? Do they have football now? I don't know.

Maybe they do. If somebody knows, please let us know. Didn't Mark Ward go to Bob Jones? Mark Ward went to Bob Jones. They probably don't have football.

Stu Everson went to Bob Jones. Oh, did he? Yes, he did. Then they might have football. That's a big guy.

So, I mean, Stu is more of the basketball. Yeah, true. He loves basketball. I've seen him play, and he's quite good.

So John MacArthur went there and then he went on, I believe he went to Dallas Theological Seminary. He went to Talbot. Talbot is where he studied under Charles Feinberg. Charles Feinberg was a great scholar, dispensationalist. I may not agree with the dispensational side of things of Charles Feinberg, but as to a biblical scholar, Oh, phenomenal.

Now, are all these people that he's mentoring under scholars and pastors or mainly scholars? Oh, you're talking about John MacArthur? John MacArthur, Charles Feinberg. Charles Feinberg was a PhD.

Okay, okay. Yes. I guess what I'm asking is, is this John MacArthur's pursuit into academics? Yes. So he started trying to become an academic.

Well, I wouldn't say he was trying to become an academic. I think he wanted to be a pastor. Gotcha. He was getting educated to be a pastor. Yes.

Gotcha. So Bob Jones to Dallas, and I think he went to Los Angeles Bible College. I'm not sure. And then, of course, Talbot. He went there as well.

At Talbot, he studied under Charles Feinberg. And the reason I mentioned that is because. Charles Feinberg made a big impact on his life. I don't want to take away from the conversation, so maybe we can save this for another time, or we can maybe cut it out. But is that normal to go from like, like, to go from school to school to school to school instead of saying I'm going to one school for this degree.

No, I mean he did his um I think his bachelor's there. I think at Bob Jones and then did his master's or something like that at Dallas and then maybe THM. I think maybe I'm not sure.

Okay. I'm not sure. Okay. So, but that's a common thing to go from di wait different schools for different degrees. Yeah, people do those kind of things.

So for Bob for, let's see, John MacArthur right here, he went from. he he actually he didn't finish at Bob Jones.

Okay. He got his BA from Los Angeles Pacific College.

So he went to Bob Jones and went to Los Angeles Pacific College. And then his he did his M Div and D D from Talbot. Theological Seminary.

So it's not a PhD, but it's a Doctor of Divinity. Sure. Um. And then, of course, awarded a degree from Grace Graduate School, which is sort of a honorary doctorate.

Okay. Yeah. Cool.

So he's getting educated to become a pastor. Yes, that's correct. That's correct. That's correct. So then what he I assume he succeeds, he becomes a pastor, but he's not immediately.

Icon Jarm MacArthur. No, no, he begins to preach. And I mean, he preaches, he has a legacy of great preaching. He grew up in a Christian home, and that was a big part of his testimony. He said he doesn't remember a time when he did not know about Jesus.

And then, of course, he had a horrible wreck, and that was kind of his crisis moment as to which way he was going to go.

So all these things were sort of setting him up for a Strong pastorate. But nobody Expected that he would become a world-renowned preacher. Right. And I think that's where God's hand comes in.

So you've got this man who's launched into fame or launched into, I guess fame is a good enough word. He's launched into making a huge impact for the gospel. Is that when he starts the grace to you, the broadcast ministry? Yeah, he begins to do that.

Now we're coming into the 70s, into the 80s. He is, you know, this is when the tape ministry era began. Like real, like cassette tape title. And I mean. I saw that all the way in India.

I know it's fun. It's not funny because there's tons of people who are like, yeah, I listen to it on cassette tapes. But I always find it one of those weird moments in history where I wasn't there for them, but I still remember them. But if you showed me a cassette tape today, I'd be like, I have no clue how to play this. I mean, his preaching ministry became.

Uh you know, world renown. But in the early days, of course, uh, you know, he's he came there to Grace and it went from it could seat about a thousand people in nineteen seventy one and it expanded again. tripling its size in by nineteen seventy seven. Wow. to 3,000 some people.

And then Each week, uh, according to uh certain research, that there were five thousand some tapes going out. Wow. Yeah. Was he an expository preacher? Yes.

Okay. Very much so. Gotcha. Is that do you do you feel like um that contributed to your style of preaching? Or or did did you get were were you always going to be an expository preacher?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's I love Going Verse by verse. At the same time, there are places where he did not stick to the rules of Okay. Framing your sermon.

Okay. Right. For for lack of better terminology. Sure. Now, if you say expository preaching, then of course it has its own nuance.

But homoletics includes expository, topical, textual, you know, you name it. It all falls into under homoletics, which is the the s study of preaching. Right. But His Some of the places where I may not agree with him. or I don't think it's always the best way to go, which is there was no outline.

He would just talk. He would just talk through that passage.

Now, keep in mind, he has done his homework. I mean, each week he would spend 30 hours studying on a sermon. Wow. That's a lot. Yeah.

And I know the average pastor cannot do that because there are a lot of responsibilities and visitation. involvement in the community. church maintenance, various committee meetings All these things, and then of course, your own family, your marriage, your children, you have to make sure your house you're taking care of that.

So there's a lot that goes on.

So the average pastor cannot do that. But for him, he was able to sort of delegate a lot of those things to other people so he could focus on the preaching side of things and it blossomed. Right. So I'm not suggesting that every pastor needs to go out there and delegate everything. and spend thirty hours a week on a sermon.

I hope you can. It'd be great. But that is not always the case. It is I wouldn't even call that ideal. It worked for him.

Right. Does that mean it needs to work for you, that you need to get 30 hours a week doing that. I don't know. He would not outline his sermons. He wouldn't write it out.

He wouldn't put it. No, but he would write it out. I mean, the writing part was fine. It's just that it was not outlined as in, like, point number one, point number two, point number three, or. Here's where it goes from this point to this point, or this theme to this theme, or this doctrine.

Now we're going to flesh it out.

Okay. It was unlike that. Why do you disagree with that specifically, the the not out not outlining his I don't wholeheartedly disagree with that. I think there is a place for it. There are messages that I preach where it's almost if somebody's trying to take notes.

It's a little difficult. Because it's like, so what was the first point?

Well, there isn't. I'm just walking through this passage right now. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. And there are applicants. Um But he never did it.

N I won't say never, but most of the time. His messages were sort of Just He is just working through that passage.

So do you think that that contributes to having like was there a lack of like logic? Or was there a lack logic was there?

Okay. The f the textual flow was there. But as sermon, like three points or four points, and then background information and application. You may not find that.

Okay. It's like a commentary. It's like you're reading a commentary. Like he's preaching a commentary to you.

Well, most of his messages became his commentary.

So I have in front of me right here. I hope I don't drop them. Here, if you do, I can help you. These are. the four volumes and I didn't buy them.

I inherited them from my father-in-law after he passed away. Those are some heavy books, by the way. I can tell it's kind of awkward to hold them all for.

So these are the four volumes of Matthew's gospel. And so, first one was Matthew 1 through 7, then 8 through 15, then 16 through 23, and then 24 through 28. Your father-in-law gave you those? They're very good.

Well, he didn't give it to me, but when he passed away, I got the library. Hey, kind of gave it to you.

So, in a sense, I guess he passed it on. Maybe I can say my mother-in-law gave it to me. Sure, sure.

So, yeah, and I have several others like that by John McCarthy. But those were his sermons published into commentary. Yes, with maybe some minor editings, I would say. I'm not quite sure about that.

So, like, if you look at it, let's say this is about when Jesus called Peter and Andrew to follow him, I will make you fishers of men.

So, it just the Sea of Galilee is an oval-shaped body of water about eight miles wide and 13 miles long, and is nearly 700 feet below sea level.

Now, of course, he may have edited this to sound like a commentary. Commentary. But this is how he preaches.

So he would literally be preaching, reading that. He would write it out, but he's not writing out, like, what's a point they can take from this, or how can they apply this to their lives? This is like, here's the Bible, and here's what it says, and here's some information. He will apply, but many times he would say, I'm going to leave the application to the Holy Spirit. Gotcha.

So there is a level of application.

So he's not going to be like, okay, so now moving along to he comes by and sees two other brothers. No, he will apply that God has called us to be fishers of men. Got it. God has called, and he is always calling for some to go.

So he will do things like that. And by the way, he's not a boring. Monotonous preacher. I mean, he if you ever heard him, he can get loud. He can get animated.

So he is funny too. Really? Yeah. So when people think, Oh, it's kind of you know, are you saying he just reads a commentary? That's not true.

Gotcha. That's not true. I don't want I don't want a misunderstanding there. But what we typically expect his sermon to be It's not quite like that. It's like Really strict expository.

Do you think it made his preaching lack in a way, or did it make it stand out or both? Oh, it definitely stood out. Gotcha. All you have to do is compare, say, John MacArthur to Chuck Swindahl, or John MacArthur to Charles Stanley, or John MacArthur to some other preacher that you know, and you'll quickly see it's like, oh, I see what's happening here. And many people loved it because they were hungry for the word.

True. They didn't want to hear your funny story, your funny experience. And people think John MacArthur didn't do that. He did. Give stories at times if they were relevant.

But his sermons were overwhelmingly scripture. Scripture interpreting scripture. Got it. That was his goal. Got it.

He said, I don't need all the other stories to help. you know, fluff off the word of God. Right. My words there. Gotcha.

I can do that with the scripture, just going to the background information, context, word studies. Um, Flow of that passage, theology, doctrine. All of this, I'm bringing it. Together to make the word of God speak to your life. Got it.

What are the other books you have?

So there are other books that he also did. And I think it may require us to maybe spend another show on this. We can do that. Because there are things that you will come across. That we may say, oh, okay, so there are places we may not agree with John MacArthur.

But I do want to say. He did more for expository preaching in our generation. In my opinion, than any of the pastors. Really? Yeah.

Wow. Just because of how well he did it, or how often he did it, or both? How consistently he did it.

Okay. How consistently he just kept on preaching the word. Verse by verse, book by book. All to the New Testament. And I mean, it just was quite amazing.

And it brought. People back. To the Bible. Was he New Testament primarily? Primarily, and that's where his dispensationalism.

Comes in.

So he was dispensationalist? He called himself a leaky dispensationalist. What does that mean? Means he is dispensationalist, but he leaks a little bit. It means it's not like a strict dispensationalist.

He would not say he is a strict dispensationalist like his mentor, Charles Feinberg.

So for those who are listening, dispensationalism, and correct me if I get this wrong, but basically is saying. Mm-hmm. Before the cross, God saved people in other ways.

So, like if Noah got into the boat, that's salvation for him. If Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac and obeyed, that was salvation. Right. Okay. They would still say that it's all through Christ, but did they all understand it?

in there in their particular dispensation. No.

But They were still doing things sort of. In obedience to God, that God is going to count as you and I say, Would you like to receive Jesus as your Savior?

Well, let's pray. And ask Jesus to come into your life. Ask him to forgive you of your sins and be your savior.

So, your main pushback would be: no, they did understand, and that understanding really is the key point. That's what I would say.

Okay, okay. So, in that sense, I don't call myself a dispensationalist. Gotcha. Because you would say, no, Abraham understood. He may not have known Jesus at this date, at this time, but he understood there's a promised one coming, and I'm going to put my faith in him.

Right. I mean,. Jesus himself said, Abraham saw my day and he rejoiced. Right. So, when that whole thing happened, where sacrifice your son, okay, I'll do it.

Where is the lamb?

Son, God will provide a lamb. All those things that were being said were not. Just random speech because when God held back, the angel held back Abraham's hand. Abraham, you have been proven faithful. There is a ram caught in the thicket, and I'll sacrifice that.

And Abraham does that. It's not like, okay, so he sacrificed the ram, and man, he was a faithful guy. No, in that whole act, He got the gospel. The gospel was this: Abraham. You see how you were about to sacrifice your son, and I stopped you?

One day, another father. Is going to sacrifice his son, and there will be no one there to stop him.

Now the Bible doesn't give us the O, which is. Him understanding and comprehending. That's what this was about. This was not about my faithfulness. This was how you were.

Are you going to one day send your son into this world to die for my sins? But a dispensationalist, and maybe in a loose sense, John MacArthur, they would claim, no, Abraham didn't get it. He just was obedient, but God knew what was coming. Right. Got you.

And you were the time of the law, keeping the law with the Hebrews or the Israelites. Yeah, they had to keep the law, and that's where they saw the inadequacy. And, you know, they did the sacrifices. And those who were obedient and obeyed God and didn't go into sin and didn't follow after those other gods like the other nations around them.

Now, those were the faithful ones. No.

I would say in the entire sacrificial system The gospel was being given to them. Yeah, because even today, you can't trick someone into following Jesus. They have to understand the gospel and then choose. Right. Yeah, yeah.

So when they were doing that and sacrificing the bulls and the goats and all that, they knew.

Now, not every one of them knew.

Some were just doing it out of tradition or out of like a. You know, I did my thing, now I can go sin. And they were not true Israelites, right? They were sinning against God and refusing to receive his grace. But Many of them, I believe, they got it.

And they realize that, yes, I'm putting my hand on the head of this animal, but ultimately, It will be the Lamb of God who's going to do this.

So, yes, we're doing this right now. Until He comes to take our sins away. Wow. That's where I would part company from dispensationalists. Gotcha.

Because they will say, oh, prove it to me, show in the Bible.

Well, if you really want to go there, then See how Jesus on the road to Emmaus showed. those disciples who he was in the Old Testament. That's That's where you realize Oh, he's always there He's there In my opinion, again, dispensationalists are believers. It's not a heresy like. Miss Candice opens up.

Yeah, like she wants to think. Yeah, that's wrong. But at the same time, I think in this particular area, I believe they're wrong. Mm-hmm. But what we can commend them, and of course, also John MacArthur is his stance on Israel.

Because of his dispensationalist leanings and his professor, he definitely kept Israel and church separated. That's incredible. That's great. That's good. Yeah, yeah.

We are running out of time, but maybe we can go over those other four books because I know there's probably some other things in there theologically that we can discuss, but also just the impact on the legacy that John MacArthur had. Dr. Shudd, is there anything you want to say before we close out? Just any encouragement to anyone who has to do that? Absolutely.

I would say stick to the word. That's right. Stick to the word. And I know there are a lot of gimmicks out there, and there are a lot of toys out there to try to enhance a message. And I know some great preachers who do that, but I also know that they are still sticking to the word.

So, yeah, you can use props and you can do. Find creative ways to present the gospel and the message on a Sunday morning. Great, do it. But make sure the word of God. Is primary.

You may not preach like John MacArthur did. That's okay. Let's stick to the word. That's right. That's right.

Unbelievable message for us. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be continuing this conversation right here on the Clearview Today show. And thank you so much to all of our sponsors who sponsored today's episode. We couldn't have done it without you.

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