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So stay hydrated, stay healthy, and without further ado, let's start the show. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome back to the Clearview Today Studio with our host with the most from Coast to Coast.
It's Dr. Abadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. You know, Dr. Shah, before Pray.com, we couldn't actually say Coast to Coast and it really be the case. But now, it is truly a national show.
Amazing, amazing, amazing. First and foremost, we give God the glory because without God, this would not be possible. Amen. You know, without. Christ and his gospel, I don't know what we'd be talking about over here.
So let's get that straight. Secondly, you guys, y'all have done such an amazing job in doing what you do every single day, especially you, John, in crafting out these shows. And getting the notes ready. And I mean, it's it's a lot of work. And of course, our our engineering team behind there, and that's just David, but then there's there are others like Nick, editing team that's there, of course, Ryan and all that he brings to the show.
It would not be possible. And then, of course, um, People on Pray.com, on the Truth Network and several other radio stations. We appreciate that. That's right. Very, very grateful to all our partners.
We are officially on Baby Watch. I didn't meant to tell you that. We are officially begun. Baby watching it. 2025, it is happening.
It could be any day now. Literally any day now. It should be any day now. The due date was the 27th, but last night, Ellie was like, hey, look, I'm just telling you based on what I feel right now, it could be any day. Like, May 27th or June 27th?
June 27th. Did I say May? I meant June. No, no, you didn't say any 27. June 7th.
You just said 27th. June 27th. Was it May or is it June? No. Still in the future, but still in the future, but...
The first one was early. The second one was right on time. And the way she's talking right now, she's like, I feel like it's getting close.
So I'm kind of like always torn between, all right, do I listen to what the doctor says or listen to what she says? Because the doctor's saying, no, you still got a little ways to go. But she's saying, pack the bag, be ready. It's time to go. There's nothing wrong with being ready.
Are you excited? Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm also just like. This is the three kids is the one everyone says, hey, that's the one that really. Changes the dynamic.
Like one kid was like, okay, this is actually kind of easy. It's not like super easy, but it's okay. Two kids, I was like, oh, wow, this got a little bit because I forgot that I still have to raise this one. I can't just be like, all right, you're good. Sit over there.
Let me raise the little one. You have to raise both of them. Three kids, I just don't know what to expect. That's where it's coming in. It's not that I'm scared or nervous.
I just don't know what to expect with three kids. But after three, it's pretty much. That's what I've always heard. Work out. Three is the game changer.
It's when you have to shift your thinking from man-to-man defense to a zone defense. Yeah, yeah.
So you kind of adopt a triage mindset, and it's just, you know, man-to-man. Yeah.
So did you notice a difference between two to three? And if you did, did you notice a difference after three? Like, like the fourth kid was the fourth kid, no problem after three.
Well, for us, the older two were girls.
Okay.
So it made it. Easier. Because Rebecca Abigail helped us with Nicholas and then Rebecca Abigail helped us and a little bit of Nicholas helped us with Thomas.
So they could pretty much they were already sort of self-sustaining and that could help out as well. Yes, yeah. Does not mean that we as parents didn't do anything.
Sometimes the kids like to say, Oh, You know, y'all were busy. I'm like, that's not true. I party trained Thomas. Yeah.
So I I do know how to take care I was taking care of Nicholas before Thomas was born. In fact, when I went back to um uh to a second job and as a principal of a school, For my interview with the board, Nicholas was with me as a little baby. Wow. I mean, he was say he was born in 2003, and this is 2005 spring.
So he went with me to the office where the board was meeting, and I had him laid on the couch taking a nap while I talked to the board. That's pretty good. Did you get the job? That's awesome. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely nice.
They wanted me to come and help them tremendously. But yeah, Nick was there, and I was taking care of him. That's awesome. So, when Thomas came along, you were all like, you know what, we're already pretty much pros at this. One more isn't going to hurt.
Yeah, but it was a very, very busy time in our lives as I was still the principal of the school. Nicole was the librarian. She was also the English teacher, the Bible teacher.
So a lot of hats we were wearing. And then I was also still the pastor of the church. That part didn't go away. I was still doing PhD work.
So there were several things I was doing simultaneously.
So. For a brief time, we had a babysitter for Thomas. Brief time. Was five ever on the table? No, not for us.
Did you know?
So, did you have four? Is like four is how many we want, and then we're done? We wanted to have two boys, two girls.
Okay.
And when we had the two boys, two girls, then we felt like I think that's where we stopped. We're good. Nice and round numbers. We're good. Any discussion about five, or were y'all both like we're done?
No, we were done. We already knew that. Three or four. Gotcha. It was three or four.
Five was right out. And five was right out. And so three. Uh Nicholas came along and Nicholas still says that She was not prepared for the fourth one. Like that was like that was a choppy.
I just disagree with that. We had talked about that. We were, you know, discussing how it's going to be. And of course, Women have God knows we needed one. I've noticed that women have really, really good, solid memories everywhere, except when it comes to kids.
Like when it comes to kids getting pregnant, birthing kids, their memories just stink. Ellie was like, you know, Holden's birth really wasn't that bad. And I said, what are you talking about? That was a nightmare. Gavin's birth was smooth sailings, but Holden's labor and like delivery was a nightmare on earth.
And she's like, no, I don't. I really don't think so. I think that's a kindness to moms. They forget the worst of it. And so we end up having more kids because they forget just how bad it was.
And it's always bad, too, when you're like talking about something you know for a fact, but then your wife just can't remember or says stuff like that where it's like, I don't. I don't think it was. And it's like, now I feel like I got to fight this point. That's too funny. Yeah.
Four was kind of the number that we, Elizabeth and I had settled on. And then, you know, right around the time, we're like, okay, maybe we're like, maybe this is our family. We're finished. We wanted more boys. But by the time we had one boy and three girls, about that time, little Asher came along and we're like, okay, perfect.
This is the great stop. This is it. Five is good. We're the mini family. We're the sixth ever on the table.
No. Not for either of you. You know, our one of our church members has seven, has seven kids, five girls, two boys. And that was what they told me. They said, look, I could have had 10.
I could have had 12. Once you have three, and from four to seven to 10 to 20, it's all the same. It's true to that because just like you said, Dr. Shaw, the older ones start helping out with the younger ones. And it's all.
Hands on deck. The parents are still the parents and doing the brunt of the work, but you've got extra hands.
So I was looking up the verse that immediately came to my mind when you said, you know, she forgets this is actually biblical. Oh, okay. Right? John 16:21. A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come.
but as soon as she has given birth to the child, She no longer remembers the anguish for joy that a human being has been born into the world. See, I always took that as a biblical thing. Yeah, I always took it. It's funny how God works through scripture because I always took that as like, oh, she doesn't remember the anguish, means it was all worth it. But it's like, no, she'll literally forget.
Jesus gave that illustration to explain the joy that comes after the sorrow, and that his disciples will go through sorrow. In the end times, there will be sorrow. I mean, he used childbirth. Amen. And moms.
That's right. I love it.
So beautiful. Our verse of the day today, talking about end times, we were going through our end time series as we were talking about Romans. Our verse of the day today is coming to us from Romans chapter 8, verses 12 and 13. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die.
But if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. You have to put to death the deeds of the body. I also like this imagery here, that we're debtors. You know, we talked about this. We've been talking about this a lot.
You're slaves to sin, but then you graduate. I don't know if that's the word. You become slaves to righteousness. No matter what, you're a debtor to someone. It's just about who do you choose to be that debtor to.
And Paul is saying here, like, if you put to death the deeds of the body, you're going to live. What does that mean, Dr. Shao? Put to death the deeds of the body. It's mortification, mortification, putting to death.
The deeds of the body.
Now, people misunderstand that passage, or they misunderstand how to apply that passage. They think, Put to death means I have to take hold of that adulterous thought and try to kill it. Or I have to take hold of that lying tongue and have to destroy it. Or some other sin that so easily ensnares me. I have to do something to kill it.
Put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live. You will live. But that's not. in the context what we're supposed to do. In the context, putting to death the deeds of the body is by What Paul talks about in Romans chapter 6, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin.
But alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Reckon yourselves to be dead.
So put those two passages together. Put Romans chapter 8:13 along with Romans chapter 6, 11. Put those two side by side, and you're able to. understand how to apply, put to death the deeds of the flesh. Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin.
means by faith stand in the fact That you You were buried. And you rose again. But more than that, By faith standing in the fact that you died with Christ, You were buried with Christ. You have risen with Christ. With Christ is very important.
You're right. Because if you just die, bury, rise again, I mean, I'm the center of the story. Yes, and still, there is no power in you. There is no purpose in you. There is no direction in you.
There is no vision in you. There's nothing there. You just die, baby. I mean, what's the use of that? Right.
To live again, then die, bury, rose again. But being in Christ gives it a purpose, gives it a meaning, gives it a divine significance. Right, because that means your old self is dead. Mm-hmm. Of course, the spirit of sin is still alive, but this body of sin.
Is done away with.
Now you say, well, I still there. Right, the law is still there. The law in my members is still there. It's that principle. It's like, um, Like I was typing.
on my phone this morning and I thought about it. You know, I was typing my email My email address. And Without even thinking, My My thumb went to The shift button and hit the Act button. You know, Pastor Shah at How How did that happen? It's like it was just such a natural movement that I didn't tell my.
Fingers to go do that. It just was done. You just have done it so much. Muscle memory. Yeah, yeah.
So, also, there is a law in my members. My members are no longer. Uh uh uh slave to sin. Right. Remember, I died.
So this body? Has been dead to master sin. But the law in my members is still alive, which means it still tries at times to. Do What I used to do in the old life. Right.
And if in my mind, which is should be transformed into the mind of Christ, if it obeys the law in my members and goes along with it, then of course sin follows. It kind of is a good, it's a good illustration because there's always intention and there's always consciousness, but your body can act of its own accord. Just like you said, like we do have muscle memory. There's times where we'll shut a door, we'll flip a light switch, and we don't even mean to do it. We're not telling, okay, I need to flip that light switch or I need to close that door.
Your body just does it.
So then it opens up that question of why, like, did I intend to do it? It's like, well, yeah, I guess I intended to do it. But is the intention. Me, you know what I'm saying? Right.
Is that the same thing? Yeah, where does the autopilot version of our body come in? I mean, think about driving. There are some times where I'll be driving and I get to where I, where my destination is, I'm like, How did I get here? Yeah, well, that's kind of dangerous behind the wheel of a car.
It is. I've definitely done that too. I'm paying attention. I'm aware of what's happening, but I'm not actively thinking, okay, I got to check this mirror. I got to turn my turn signal.
It's just kind of, it's just happening. And it can be frustrating because it's like someone says something to you, right? And you get angry. But it's not like they said that, and it's like, now, how do I want to process this? I can choose, yeah, I can choose to let the spirit lead me, or I can choose to live in the flesh and get angry.
Right now, I'm going to choose to get angry. Here I go. No, it just happens. You know what I mean? And it's like you have to fight what naturally occurs.
Right. Unless you consciously keep your mind on Christ, unless you consciously submit yourself to the Holy Spirit, to the leadership of the Holy Spirit in your life, you will go by muscle memory. But it's more than just muscle memory, it's also the indwelling sin. The sin principle, the law of sin is still with you.
So, law in my members, we can call that muscle memory for, I think that comes very close to describing what we're doing. But it's more than muscle memory. But the law of sin, which is also with me, and it will be with me until I. Uh leave this live. That also perpetuates the sin that follows.
And the death that comes inevitably.
So it's almost like if you're not actively taking control of your members and redirecting them, they're going to default to this. Absolutely. That's why Paul says: yield your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Mm-hmm. Means you have to yield your members, submit your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Now, what earlier y'all were talking about. Doing things and not even thinking. All that is biblical, right here in Romans chapter 7 and verse 15. Paul says, for what I am doing I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice.
But what I hate That I do. If then I do what I will not do, I agree with the law that it is good. Right. I mean, nothing wrong with the law telling me not to do it. That's fine.
Law saying this is right or law saying that is wrong. Law is fine. Right. But then it says in verse 17: what does it say? But now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
For I know that in me that is in my flesh nothing good dwells, for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. Right. And that's what we're discussing here: how to perform. What is good.
So do you have to live your entire life constantly on alert, constantly minded, like, okay, do the right thing, do the right thing? Or is it that with enough practice and with enough discipline, just like with sin or just like with just natural things, We can develop spiritual muscle memory, like godly muscle memory. Yes, and no. Yes, you can. The more you do what is right, the more it becomes part of your righteous nature in Christ.
Okay? That part is true. But it's not just muscle memory that I'm going to focus my life on doing good things and thinking good thoughts. That is true. Paul talks about that in other places, about doing what is right, but also thinking what is right.
He talks about that in Philippians. Uh he talks about uh whatever is Good and true and noble and trustworthy, and all in all, meditate on these things.
So keep your mind on those things.
So if you are watching Let's say shows or movies or something that are contrary to what God has for you or the morality that God wants us to have in our lives? Then You are opening the door. for the enemy to use Your body. For evil. Yeah.
So you say, Well, I love my wife. Great. But if you keep watching adulterous movies or listen listening to m music, With adulterous lyrics. What's going to happen? Yeah.
See, another thing we don't discuss much is Satan. In the book of Romans, Satan is not mentioned that much, but he is mentioned. He is mentioned in Romans chapter 15. He is there, ever present. To Get us.
to f fall, to fall into sin, to fall into death. Maybe not eternal death, but to go into a death-like experience.
So It's not as easy as I'm just going to get my muscle memory going in the right direction. And just It's going to automatically take care of the other things. No. We're living in a world, in a system that is marred by sin, by the flesh. By death.
And by Satan himself. And they are Constantly trying to come at you. We forget that we have an enemy that is against us. Fiery darts of. The evil one.
Yeah, well, I think in this day and age, we're not used to having enemies. Or if we have enemies, they're ideological enemies. They're enemy. They're just people who think differently, but they're not actually attacking me. We're not used to and I know I'm not used to.
The idea that someone is actively working To bring me down, to get me. And I think it makes scripture more real and it makes what we're talking about a lot more applicable. Because a lot of people would listen to a conversation like this and be like, this is too much. Y'all are reading too much into this. I mean, think about what it says in Ephesians: put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of.
The enemy and having done all to stand. To stand. Told to go out there with the armor and start fighting the enemy and tearing down. The gates of hell. You do that.
Hell is going to come into your life. Yeah, that's true. Not that you're going to go to hell, but you have just. opened up The army of Of demons against you. That's a great deal.
No, you just stand. You put on the armor of God and you stand behind Christ. You don't need to be afraid of the enemy.
Sometimes people get afraid. I'm not afraid of the enemy. But I never want to underestimate the enemy. That's a great point. There's a lot of times where people will talk about spiritual warfare and they'll talk about things like that.
And they run out in front, claiming all this authority, claiming that I can bind this and I can say this and I can do all these things. And we forget that, yes, we have an enemy, and yes, you know, we fight from a place of surrender to Jesus and what he's done for us, but our enemy has been doing this a lot longer than we have. And we also think that when those people inevitably fall, because it always happens. You know, you always see some scandal or some health crisis or something in their lives that either, well, I guess they must have fell away from their faith or maybe there was some secret sin, but we never stop to think maybe they goaded the enemy. Why don't people think that?
People are so. I mean, there's that's in recent news. There's big name figures that have fallen. And we never, and we never, we never want to stop to say maybe they maybe they overstepped. Yeah.
Maybe they overstepped. I mean, talking about big names. I mean, recently another artist came out who The Christian artist has been around for a long time and admitting some some of the most heinous, horrible sins. And people are like, Hey guys, show grace and I'm all for showing grace, but you have to call sin sin. That's exactly right.
And this is why the cause of Christ Suffers. That's right. God's going to keep working. God's going to keep using people who are submitted to Him, not perfect people, but people who want to please God, to live for Him, to build His kingdom. It's going to keep going.
But yes, yes, every time that happens, it's. Another weapon in the hand of the enemy to keep people from coming to Christ. And Paul uses this language. He talks about even internally, there's conflict, there's war, there are powers at play, both in our external world, but also within ourselves. And I think that's something that a lot of people neglect going through Romans is this conflict.
Even when he talks here about, I know what I should do, but I have two minds: I have a mind and I have flesh, and they're at war with each other. And I guess my question is. Does that war this side of heaven ever get resolved? No, there there is no place where you can say That the old nature is eradicated. That is not a biblical.
Doctrine, the eradication of the old nature or the suppression of the old nature. You cannot do that. You can only counteract the old nature. Through the power of the Holy Spirit. Yeah.
And that power of the Holy Spirit is not just focusing on the Holy Spirit or doing instantaneous, spontaneous, radical things. The power of the Holy Spirit comes when you grow. In love for Jesus Christ. Of course, you love God the Father, of course, you love God the Holy Spirit, but especially God the Son, because through Him, the one we can connect with, the one we can touch. Through him, we have the power of God working in us.
That's right. The life of God working in us. We never become God. We will never ever become God.
Sons of God is quite different. It means we take on the characteristics of Christ. We take on the mindset of Christ. We take on the vision. That Christ has, which is to seek and to save that which was lost.
What is our hope then? How does this fight become easier? Because there may be people who are listening to this radio show or this podcast and thinking, man, I feel like I'm in. Being pulled in 17 different directions every single day. Like I'm in the middle of this tug of war right now.
I'm wrestling with I know what I want to do, but I'm really struggling with these issues in my life. What hope do I have that this fight's going to become easier?
Well, I will tell you this: when the enemy knows that you are in a fight, he does not back away. He turns up the heat. The only solution you and I have, again, if you're stepping away from Romans for a moment, is submitting to God. Submit to God, resist the devil, and then he will flee from you. Submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
I would strongly encourage those who are struggling with this and and are frustrated and discouraged and demoralized because of some sin in their life or some place of conflict they're facing in their family or Some situation that is out of their control, and they feel like there's, if I only didn't have to deal with this, life would be so free. Right. Well, Read. The whole chapter of Romans, chapter, I mean, the whole chapter of Romans, chapter eight. Because in Romans chapter 8, it's not just how to follow the Spirit.
It also tells you how the Spirit is going to help you. He intercedes. For us. Um So It it's uh Yeah.
Someone said, Can we say stop trying and start trusting? That is a good way to look at it. Yeah, I would say that. Stop trying, start trusting. You mentioned yesterday, you know, the aspect of suffering.
I think a lot of modern Christianity has, especially what we see online, is just overcome. You will overcome. They'll even say with Jesus, with Christ, with God, you can overcome any obstacle in your life. He's going to overcome it through you. And I think we've become so obsessed with this overcoming narrative that we've forgotten that the Christian life is a call to suffer.
And I like the way that you put it yesterday, which is if you're going to identify with Christ, you're going to learn what it means to suffer. And I think that was really cool because a lot of people have forgotten that. We do talk about that overcoming lifestyle and fighting spiritual battles, but it's a call to suffer and it's even a call to surrender. I mean, there's very much a laying down, like coming to the end of yourself and saying, Jesus, I need you to do this because I can't. And would you say, Dr.
Shah, that there's no guarantee that you'll overcome in this life? Would you say? Would you so far? Yeah, oh, absolutely. There are Christians who may end their life, not end like.
Taking their life, but but but come to the end of their life on a very low note. You know, people sometimes think that man is going to be upward and onward, and man they will walk away in victory. Um, maybe. I think we will all walk away in victory as if you know Christ as your Savior. But I have known uh personally known People who were born again saved, but because of an addiction, because of a habit, because of a bad choice they made, that the end of their life came not on a happy note.
What does that mean for a single Millisecond that they are in hell? Absolutely not. Does that mean for a single uh New York minute that that that person was not truly saved? No. Yeah.
No one can call Jesus Lord without the Holy Spirit. That's right. The Bible says that. And so, I believe it's John that says that. No one can call God without the Holy Spirit.
And so, if that is the case, then. They are saved. They call Jesus Lord. not the same Lord Lord. And not believing.
No, they believed they were obeying, they were trusting, but the struggles of life were too strong. 1 John talks about that. And so um Yeah. I hope we are sinning less. or do we become sinless?
Nicole's dad used to say that, and I'm sure others have said it too. No, we don't become sinless, but hopefully we sin less. Amen. Amen. The goal is to grow.
The goal is to become more Christ-like. We'll never arrive. We'll never cross that finish line this side of heaven. But the goal is, you know, with each day, with each month, with each year, with each broadcast of this show. I mean, we're driving to become more like Jesus.
That's right. We've been going through Romans, not because we're fascinated by this book, but because there are people. Maybe even you listening to this right now who needs to hear this book. I need to hear this book. This book is, the book of Romans is changing how I live my Christian life.
Even 15, 16 years after being saved, it's changing me. And so our goal in going through Romans is that it would change you as well. Yeah, absolutely. Guys, join us tomorrow. Same time, same station.
We're going to be diving into the great topic here on the Clear View Today Show. Thanks to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. And you can always support us financially at ClearviewToday Show.com. John, what do you want to close with today?
13,500 people. That's how many. Many people have subscribed to dr shaw onpray.com. We are so, I'm just gonna give us a round of applause. Not us, we're gonna give God a round of applause.
Let me go ahead and say that. Thank you. Glory to God. Thank you guys so much for supporting us on Pray.com. You can always give financially.
Thank you to everyone who is subscribed to Give Monthly. It is a huge help. It helps us get the word of Jesus Christ to people all over the world who are listening to Dr. Shah's message for the very first time.
So thank you for that. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today. This episode of Clearview Today is brought to you by my.
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