How Biblical Persia Became Modern-Day Iran

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So stay hydrated, stay healthy, and without further ado, let's start the show. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and we have got a fantastic episode lined up for you guys today.

Welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We're here in the studio with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, the host of today's show, one of the most well-dressed men I've ever seen today. I gotta just say it right here on the radio. Them socks are knocking mine off.

The socks is not good. Dr. Shah, your socks are awesome. We all have a lot of them.

So are yours and yours? Mine happened. My look at that. How did that happen? Look at that rocket.

We are rocking socks today.

So, for the benefit of those who do not know, or who do not know, these are Clearview logo socks. Right. And they are awesome.

So. Come and get them. Come get them quick. Fantastic.

So I love a pair of kind of some funky design socks. Love them. And what better way, better thing to do than to rep your church fans? They are classy. These are some classy socks.

And I got to tell you this, too. Typically, when you get custom-made socks, they fall apart. They're not sturdy. But these are not sturdy. These are comfortable.

Good quality. They are warm. Man, they are warm as a pudding. The verse of the day today is coming from Isaiah chapter 45, verses 4 and 5. For Jacob, my servant's sake, and Israel, my elect, I have even called you by your name.

I have named you, though you have not known me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. There is no God besides me. I will gird you, though you have not known me. I think some context is kind of helpful here, Dr.

Shock, because God is actually talking to Cyrus, Cyrus the Great, king of Persia. And I think this is a really interesting verse because he's saying, listen, I'm going to use you. You don't know who I am. I'm not your God. But I'm going to use you.

And that's a part of God that I think we forget. Yep. That he will work through people who are not even Christians, who are not even his. And who knows? Maybe Cyrus did come to know the living true God because that decree was unlike anything anybody had ever seen before, where he allowed all the Jewish people to go back home to the Their homeland, back to Judea, back to Jerusalem, and go rebuild your lives.

I was going to ask you if there's any evidence outside of that decree that Cyrus came to faith. I I don't know. I don't know. But the way he speaks and talks. I would I wouldn't be surprised if he if he came walking around the corner in some some place in heaven.

Like, whoa. He's considered one of like the greatest like leaders, like emperors ever, right? Yeah, now he would not appreciate the emperor title because he did not believe in. Trying to control people. I mean, there's a book out there on Cyrus' leadership.

He was quite a leader. If I had to pick between Alexander the Great and Cyrus, I would pick Cyrus. Really? Who's the better leader? Better leader.

Now, Alexander the Great was quite a strategist. He knew how to win battles. He knew how to motivate men.

So I'm not for any way knocking him down. What I'm saying is, Cyrus the Great had a way of. of making you feel you're important, making you feel like you matter. And that's how the Persian Empire became the largest empire in history. I mean, even to this day, if I'm not wrong, maybe the British Empire, I guess you can say probably.

But then again, they lost America, so it's not the same. Maybe for a period, it may have been the largest in history, maybe. I don't know. Well, yesterday we were talking about, you know, Israel's strike against Iran and what that means for like today's political landscape, what that's going to mean for the future. But kind of at the end of yesterday's episode, we wanted to kind of zoom out, zoom out from the headlines and take a look at the bigger picture of history.

I think that's one thing, Dr. Shah, that you do really well is that. A lot of times I see things through a tunnel. I see what's happening in the right now. Maybe what caused this 10 years ago, but I think you're very good at zooming all the way out and looking at the complete picture of history.

And I didn't know this, but Iran was once Persia. Yes. And so that means there's some biblical significance to what's happening here. Absolutely. It's mentioned as Elam.

Elam, if you ever come across the name in the Bible, you can kind of do a quick search, Elam, it should pop up. It's a very important name, and that is also the name for ancient Persia, Iran. And in the end of times, it's going to come back again. Yeah.

So it's significant, even to the conversation that we're having in Romans right now. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so it's saying here that Elam, it talks about The was a son of Shem. Is that right? And then that it gives the location for the land of Elam as well. Yeah.

So the descendants they're descended from the same root, I guess, as the Semites, right? As the Jewish people. In a sense, yeah. And then also in Iran went some of the descendants of Japheth.

So Shem and Japheth's people went towards Iran. Got you. And then Ham went. Elsewhere, yeah, he went more to different parts, but but sometimes people uh misunderstand. I don't want to get on a tangent over here, it's almost like.

Um Japheth's people would be white, Shem's would be brown, and Ham's would be black. And that's not. Accurate. That's the oversimplification to make so you don't have to think too hard about it. That's not how it went.

If you were to time travel and see Noah and his three sons getting into the ark, you will not see Noah and his wife, and then these three young men with their wives. One is black, one is white, one is brown. Is that the case? I I would be very suspicious of Noah. Like, what were you doing, buddy?

Who else were you with? Yeah, Noah. No, it doesn't work like that. That's pretty stinky funny. Yeah.

People will reduce it to that though. I mean, they will they do. I had a I had a Sunday school teacher call me up one time and say, Hey, so Correct me because I'm teaching this tomorrow. Oh, no. I'm not sure what you got.

JFeth. White. I said White. No, if by white, you mean like he became the ancestor of a lot of European people, but keep in mind. He was also the ancestors of some of the Chinese people.

Right. Oh, I didn't know that.

Okay, all right, so Shem. Would be brown. I said, no, by shem, if you mean like Jewish people and maybe some Arabs, you know, something like that. Is that what you're talking about? It's like, Semites, right?

I mean, brown. Like, that's how it works.

So he's like, all right, I'm 0 for 2.

Okay. But d Shem, ham, japhet, ham. All black people, right? This one's got to be right. No, that's not how it was.

They're not crayons, people. You have to line them up one right after the other. Those colors came about down the line, where certain groups migrated certain places isolated, and certain genetic proclivities were sort of emphasized and re-emphasized. I mean, when you do that for hundreds of years, certain things, certain characteristics stand out. Yeah, that kind of comes to the surface.

And then you start to notice those patterns, right? Like the further north you go, the lighter skinned people will be. Right. And it's got nothing to do with evolution, okay? I've been in America for 30 years.

I'm not getting any wider. Right. So it just. Just because of certain migratory patterns that came about. Right.

It has nothing to do with Shem Ham Jeffett being certain colors. But. The predecessors of who we know today as Iran would be Persia, Persians. But again, there has been so much intermingling that has happened. If you just directly open up the book of Genesis and say, there you go, with Shem came Elam, there you go, it's done.

And I'll say, no. What do you do with Alexander the Great, who also traveled towards Persia? Because he was sick and tired by Persians always coming towards the West and trying to conquer Greece, right? I mean, that's what Thermopylae is all about. That's what 300 is all about.

So he was like, okay. I'm gonna once and for all make everybody Greek. And if everybody's Greek, we're not going to fight. No wars, yeah.

Well, he was successful in some ways. We got the Greek language. I was going to say, so at least everybody was speaking Greek, right? Right, right. That's why the New Testament was written in Greek.

Right. By the way, that's a good point to also mention the Genesis fallacy. If you know what a Genesis fallacy is, we talked about that. Yeah.

Is has nothing to do with the book of Genesis. If we're If the way I'm using the word Genesis fallacy, that Genesis means beginning.

Some people think if it began a certain way, that if you use anything that began a certain way, and let's say that way was evil, then it's all evil. Like mistletoe, some of the druids would used to, druids would say that the mistletoe was a symbol of fertility or something like that.

So when today, when you say, oh, under a mistletoe, give a kiss, that, oh. That's evil. Yeah.

I I remind people it's like Alexander the Great To Greek. Yeah.

All the way into the Eastern world, the Persian Empire. Jesus spoke Greek. That's right. Uh the New Testament was written in Greek. Mm-hmm.

If Greek began as a bad thing, Then, what do we do? Yeah, we do the New Testament. Jesus speaking in Greek. That's right. It's all bad together for good.

Can't go like that. That's a horrible logic. It happens in worship music too sometimes. Where there, I know there was a really, there was a really popular song that came out in like the mid-2000s. And the guy who wrote it claimed, you know, I did it because God is my great healer.

I had cancer and he healed me. Yeah.

And then it came out, he never had cancer. But people land blasted that song. Like they took that song out completely, which we never have done that song. It was old by the time I was. Or even people like rock music, not that.

is demonic. That's terrible. And I don't know what to say to people. It's like, yeah, I'm sure there were some groups. In fact, we know some of the groups back in the day doing crazy things and rock music had some bad thing.

But today, most of our services, the way the beats are arranged, are Yeah, you have to do that. It's coming from that foundation. I mean, modern, I mean, if you played, seriously, if you played, and this is not like a hard rock band by any but if you played like any YouTube album today, that would sound like modern worship. People would think it's a worship band. Right.

Yep. Same with Coldplay. Same exactly with Coldplay.

So you cannot buy into that fallacy just because it began What you have to go back to is God takes everything and works together for good.

So, with something like Persia, which comes along and God actually uses it, but eventually Persia becomes Iran. Yes. How does that happen? Like, what is the story of how we get to where we are today? Yeah, that's a good point.

Well, I mean, great, great question.

So, in the Old Testament, you hear a lot about Persia. For example, the Jewish people, when they were taken into captivity, this is the second exile, which is known as the Babylonian exile. They were not taken to Persia, they were taken to Babylon. Babylon would be modern-day Iraq, which is on the west side of Iran, somewhere between Jordan and Israel, Syria, and Iran. That's where Iraq is.

But God's people were taken into captivity to Babylon. Babylon in Mesopotamia, and then they stayed there, but they had been given promises by God that one day he is going to. Take them back once the days of the captivity are over. You're coming home. But until then, plant yourself there, build homes, build vineyards, give your sons and daughters in marriage, and take sons and daughters in marriage.

Do whatever you can, build your life, bloom where you're planted. Right, right. And in time, God said, I will bring you home. and some listened, some didn't, but none the less The years moved on, and then over one night. Uh Cyrus, the Persian.

Okay, this is the kingdom next to Babylon. Cyrus the Persian began to rise in power. And in God's timing, I would say, God raised him up. And even Cyrus acknowledges that he took over Babylon in one night. Wow.

He redirected the waters of the Euphrates River. And again, he did not do it overnight. He was working on it. How do I get inside Babylon without like scaling the walls or fighting the enemy? How can I do that?

Well, wait, the Euphrates River runs through Babylon. I'll just redirect it and then walk through on dry ground, like a dry riverbed. I can march my soldiers. And that's exactly what he did. Wow.

They marched under the gates. Remember, there's a river.

So, gate, it seems like, well, there's water there. You cannot come through. Oh, wait, water's gone. Yeah.

The soldiers just marched through that through the dry ground or muddy ground, whatever, but they were able to walk through. And took it with no resistance. No resistance. They came inside and the people celebrated them in a way because they were sick and tired of Babylon. Babylon was already going downhill by that time.

This is not the Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar. Through the years, the kings that came after him, like the Mene, Menetakel, the Parson, Darius the Mede, right? He was one of the last ones. He's over there. Goofing off.

Yeah.

Goofing off. Bring all the temple treasures so I can pour wine in it and drink. Like, what? Why? Why would you?

What do you mean? What is a pleasure? Yeah.

You have this tyrannical leader, Nebuchadnezzar, but at least he's got some kind of like arm of power. He brought all those temple treasures. And he's like, okay, we can come look at it. This is our new museum. And all Jewish treasures.

He's a bad guy, but at least people, you know, were scared enough of him to show some healthy respect. But then he's like a goofball. Yeah, then God gets a hold of Nebuchadnezzar, right? God gets a hold of him, uses him, and teaches him a lesson. And so you would humbles him.

Yeah, humbles him. And then you would think Darius would look and be like, maybe this Yahweh is like not to be trifled with. Nope. But he's like, nah, that's not going to happen to me. Yeah, bring out the temple treasures, and I'm going to drink in those golden bowls and these chalices.

And right then, God's like, okay, tonight your kingdom is going to be taken from you and given to the Medes. And is that where we get Medo-Persian? Yeah, Medo-Persian. The kingdom of the Medes was different from the kingdom of the Persians, but they sort of merged. These were different.

When I say tribes, don't think of them as just like Tribes like Native American tribes, just kind of you know, people living in their own little. Enclaves over here, whatever. No, tribes here means this was a different group of people. A different people, a different people group. Yeah.

And different groups of people, different people groups. Yeah, yeah. I was trying to find a better way to say it, but I couldn't do it. Different groups of people groups. I was like, okay, okay.

So, was it two kingdoms that merged into one, or was it just allies that kind of worked together? I would say the second would be probably more appropriate to say that. Because he was a Persian. Gotcha. But then it became the laws of the Medes and the Persians.

Yeah, I hear that all you hear that a lot. Yeah.

And so they took on, and so now you have the Persian Empire. And in this Persian Empire, you come across names like Esther. The beauty queen. You come across names like Daniel. Daniel was already there.

He was one of the first captives taken from Judea into Babylon. He was under Nebuchadnezzar, he was under Darius and others, but then he was also under Cyrus. He was the head of the Magi. The Magi that came during the time of Jesus are also coming from Persia. This was an ancient class of people who were sort of Somewhere between mystics and scientists.

Astrologers, more like.

Okay. So king makers. Charting the stars and seeing what destinies they could. See from the stars, but not in the sense of like we're in a cave with backwards. I mean, they were very well respected.

in in the Persian Empire. Right, right. Exactly. Are the people of Iran now still considered Persians? Are they the same people?

Well, I would say. Since Alexander the Great came through there, this is past the point of Esther, past the point of Daniel. I would say Daniel before Esther. Past the point of Ezra and Nehemiah. Remember, Nehemiah was a cupbearer under King Xerxes.

Xerxes came after Cyrus and all. Same Xerxes as in the 300 movie or different Xerxes? I would say that Xerxes would have been Artaxerxes. Gotcha. Who would be Xerxes' son?

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Um And I don't think Xerxes came immediately after Cyrus. I think there were a couple of the kings in between, but nonetheless.

Then Alexander the Great Marched against Persia because sick and tired of Persian invasions, and a lot of Greeks. And some of the people in between, they also moved along. and settled in these places. They settled in Babylon, they settled in Persia. And they became part of that culture.

So How can we then say Iranians are the old ancient Persian? Maybe, yes, I would say. Probably mostly. But then you also have this Greek influence. Yeah.

There is some mixing happening. Oh, absolutely. For example, the Jewish people had to fight against Antiochus Epiphanes. Antiochus Epiphanes was a Greek. From Persia.

He was the head of the Persian Empire, but really he was. He was a Greek. You can call it the Greco-Persian Empire. And he wanted to spread Uh Hellenism. Among the Jewish people.

And so he comes against Israel at the time. This is during the time of the Maccabees and all of that. And he wants to spread Hellenism because he's sick and tired of these Jewish people holding on to their ancient traditions. And, you know, he tried to sacrifice a pig on the altar in the temple and all that stuff. That's the desolation that brings abomination.

Yeah, desolation of uh ab abomination of desolation.

Okay. And that's at Antiochus Epiphanes. Mm-hmm. Claims to be God. I mean, he is God.

Greek. Yeah.

Wow. But from Persia um And And so That Should tell you that Yes, in a sense, they are the ancient people, but at the same time, there's been a lot of migrations in and out that have happened.

So, if they're, but one of the things that Persia was known for was being like, hey, we're going to let you do your own thing. Great question, yeah. But why all of these different invasions? It seems like they want to invade, but then tell the people, do your own thing. Everyone wants to bring peace somehow.

Mm-hmm. But peace on their own terms.

So, if we are the ones ruling, we can ensure that there is peace without necessarily micromanaging, but we're going to be the arbiters of that peace. Yeah.

So, Persia is not like, hey, live and let live. You're going to live under our rule. You just don't have to be Persian if you don't want to, is basically what it is. You don't have to be Persian in culture. Yeah, you can keep your religion, you can keep your gods.

That was new. That's one reason why Cyrus sent the Jewish people back to Jerusalem and said, Go rebuild your lives and then later on allowed them to go back and build the temple. That's fine. You want to build the walls around the city of Jerusalem? You know, we see another Persian king, and Nehemiah, the cupbearer, says, you know, I need to go do that.

Okay, go. What do you need? What do you need? So they were okay with that. They gave you autonomy.

But at the end of the day, you're still Subject Two The Persian rule. Gotcha. And then you follow Persian laws, you pay Persian tribute, stuff like that. Um, you p you pay tribute. Oh, yeah.

Laws, you can have your own little laws and whatever you want to do, but you have to pay the tribute.

So you're paying the Persian Empire. Right, absolutely. You have to send in the tribute. Yeah.

And And the problem was, especially with the Jewish people, because they ultimately were like, No, we're loyal to God, to the living God. We're not going to be loyal to you. And that really did not help. But They went along with it. It was okay.

And then Antiochus Epiphanes, who was also now a Greek from Persia, he sort of. Reverse that trend because Greeks came to spread freedom, ended up. Causing abomination of desolation. How interesting is history? Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

There was a question that I was just asked from our engineer, and the question is. Um How does America differ? How does America differ? How does America differ from in freedom?

Well, big difference. When America goes to other countries, it's not to take over. It is to set them free. Nobody goes over there and says, Now you will swear allegiance to the President of the United States. Right.

Like back in 2003, America established democracy in Iraq. They don't have to pay the American government in order to do their thing. In fact, we lost a lot of money there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And even there, I don't know how successful we were in establishing democracy. I would say still. The people were given a chance to be free, right? And those who disagree with that, think about all the people who suffered under Saddam Hussein. Yeah, that's true.

So, in a sense, they were given a chance to freedom. You said this before, though. I mean, we have a burden, in a sense, as the superpower of the world to go and. liberate those who are being oppressed and and step in and support our allies where need be. I we talked about this in the previous episode, where like, why America?

Why is it our problem then that Israel and Iran are in this conflict.

Well, yes, we're allies with Israel, but also we have the means to step in and ensure that peace. But we're not then going and saying, okay, now you're an American. We have liberated you, but now you are under our rule. No, we've liberated you because we believe in freedom. Right.

And yeah, we do want to bring some good values there, some freedom, and that's okay to do. I believe in spreading those Western values. I think they're good, they're good for all people. And I know there are some people who say, like, no, no, no, no. You're trying to spread Western-style democracy in places that cannot have.

I get it. I get it. They don't have the same Judeo-Christian foundation. I get it. But still, at least you need to make some attempt as you're watching women being subjugated and minorities being tortured.

Can we still, are we still going to say, oh, no, that's their culture now? Yeah, we can't. At least make an attempt to say, Hey, let women have some freedom. Come on. You're right.

At some point, some attempt has to be made. At least some starting point has to happen. I do find it a little bit funny that people have a problem with us imposing Western values when those values are based on Judeo-Christian principles that began in the Middle East. Yeah, I know that's the thing.

So it's just interesting to see how if we connect those dots, really what you have a problem with. Anyway, I just thought it was funny. It is funny. And I feel for the Persian people, whatever their DNA is, whether it's the original. Persians and the Medes or with some Greek mixed in, or the Turks also came down through Persia, through through ancient Iran and moved into Turkey or whatever.

Whatever the intermingling has been. I still feel for the people because they have been in subjugation for the past five decades. Yeah.

And they need that freedom. Yesterday, that I thought would be a good way to close it out because you said that their story is not over. You know, they're going to be still relevant in the end times. Right. Yeah.

I mean, they were there on the day of Pentecost. Of course, these were Jewish. People from Persia, the people who did not go home after Xerxes sent them, set them free. But on the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, it says, Devout men from every nation under heaven. Mm-hmm.

Partians Meads Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia. Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia. Of course, part of these are coming from. Iraq, but many of them Are really Iran. They were there on the day of Pentecost.

These were Jewish background people living in parts of Iraq. And most of Iran, who were there on the day of Pentecost, and they took the gospel back with them. Wow. So the gospel got to Iran, In somewhere 35 I mean I would say 33 through 35 AD. That's incredible.

That's crazy, isn't it? It is. It really is. And then in the end of times, you're going to see the gospel again it talks about in, I believe, in Jeremiah 49:39. It says the Lord will restore the fortunes of Elam.

Isn't that something? We don't think about that. And I know we don't actually think this, but it's easy to fall into that way of thinking, even subconsciously, that Christianity is for America. This is our religion. This is our faith.

And we're going to be the ones that win in the end. But the gospel is for all nations. Yeah.

And this Elam is in the west, in the southwest of modern-day Iran, in the, believe it or not, in the it is in the Khuzestan and Elam provinces. Khazestan and Elam. Same word. I love it. I love it.

Later in the future, you know, as we because we've got some conversations we've been having behind the scenes, particularly with people that we've met at NRB and partners that we've talked about bringing not only this show, but just the gospel message to the East. You know, there's television networks in the East, in Pakistan, in India, and hopefully that'll be expanding even more soon. But, you know, maybe there's more details that we can share in a later show. Absolutely. I was in Washington, D.C.

for the National Day of Prayer at the White House, and I had the opportunity to meet with a pastor who was from an Iranian background. And I'm hoping to connect with him soon and talk with him. But it was amazing to talk to him and to see he came from a Muslim home, but he was converted. He came to know Christ. And just like my father's testimony, his family sort of disowned him and they don't talk to him.

But he is leading a church. He's reaching people with the gospel of Christ.

So it's quite amazing that. lot of Iranians are following Christ in Iran, I would say. A lot of Iranians are Christians. Amen. Guys, if you enjoyed today's episode, write in and let us know.

252-582-5028. Thanks to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. And you can always support us financially at clearviewtodayshow.com. John, what do you want to leave the listeners with today?

Definitely want to encourage you guys to follow Dr. Abadan Shah on Pray.com. We are closing in on 14,000. Want you guys to go ahead and close that gap as soon as possible. It's so crazy how that, you know, what's funny how God says, ask and you shall receive.

Once we started asking for followers, we really start to see the numbers. It's crazy. Those numbers kind of rock it up. But we're so, so glad that you guys are into the message. Thank you for giving.

Thank you to everyone who is subscribed monthly. If you want to support the ministry, you can also give a monthly gift and it's recurring, but it helps us to take the ministry of Clearview Church out to the nations. That's exactly what God has called us to do. Very grateful for Dr. Shah and his message and the avenues that we have to get this message out to people.

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