You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and we are here once again in the Clearview Today studio, going strong this week with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show.
Dr. Shah, back in the studio again. Yes. Yesterday's show was very inspiring, I guess you can say. It brought a lot of comments and questions.
And so I'm looking forward to this show. Yeah, yeah. Usually we don't respond to comments and questions.
Well, I mean, we do when they're edifying. Yeah, right. I mean, yesterday's conversation, you know, of course, we're talking about what's going on in Los Angeles with the riots and then the protests to President Trump. And it brings up a very emotionally charged response for a lot of people. But yesterday's conversation was very helpful in helping us frame this discussion in a way that glorifies God, but also helps us think rightly about what it means to be an American.
Right. I think a lot of what we're seeing online. We typically don't have this conversation in person, but we see a lot of this online. People can't be illegal. You know what I mean?
You can't call people illegal because people aren't illegal. And it's a very semantic way of taking the argument and making it about something else. Because no one's claiming that a human being is illegal. The argument is and has always been that a human being is in the country illegally. Same way as we gave the illustration yesterday.
If I go into someone else's house, without permission and I'm just there. My existence is not illegal. My presence in that house is. When the situation is blown up now to where it's not just illegal immigrants that they're arresting, but now you have protesters and agitators who are being arrested. I mean, there's been over 70 arrests that have been reported, including 50 from just Saturday to Monday.
And so because that's happening, Dr. Shah, what the media is doing is saying, look, they're arresting American citizens. These aren't just illegal immigrants. They are arresting American citizens because they're brown. And now, so now that protesters and the agitators who are causing trouble and therefore, as a result, getting arrested are now getting lumped in so that they can say truthfully, by the way, air quotes truthfully, they're arresting American citizens.
These people aren't illegal immigrants. They're American citizens. It's a sensitive issue, no doubt, but it's also a very black and white issue and. I know some people are Hard pressed to see that because all they see are people like them who are being put in handcuffs and taken away, or they're seeing their loved ones with their family taken away. And so people are upset.
And I understand, I mean, that's a that's a tough, tough place to be. But We also have to remember that we cannot function as a nation where all laws are suspended. That's right. And we are a society of chaos. It cannot function that way.
There are also ulterior motives that are behind all this mass illegal immigration that the previous administration allowed over years. And last show, I read some of the statistics coming from the northern and the southern borders, but mostly in the southwest border where it was.
so many millions of Chinese nationals coming in into our country.
Now we're not even talking about, say, Venezuela, we're not talking about Nicaragua. or Haiti or some countries in the south of us, we're talking about China. And it does not make any sense why so many millions are coming. And some of them are on a list Or were on a list of names that were told not to come back, and yet they are in the country. That should be a big alarm for all of us.
Why in the world? Do we think this is okay?
Something is terribly wrong. And so We have to fix this problem, and that's what's happening right now. That's right. And I know people have questions, and hopefully, in this show, we can. Answer some of those questions.
And we can bring some reason and maybe even scripture to bear on these issues.
Well, there's a chapter in your book, 30 Days of Praying for America, the devotional written by you and Nicole. And I remember sitting down with you and working on this book and talking about these numbers. And I just thought, I was like, this has to be wrong. These numbers have to be exaggerated. They have to be a mistake because if this was real, we should, I mean, there should be alarms going off all over the place.
And there wasn't.
So that should bother us even more so. We also live in a country where the media is completely bought. You know what I mean? We don't get the Walter Cronkite news anymore. No.
Yeah. Every piece of information that you're fit.
So I guess where I'm going with that is. A lot of people will say, I'm with you. Go after people with terrorist affiliations. Go after them. Don't go after my uncle who works at Home Depot.
Don't go after my gardener who's trying to make an honest living. Go after just the terrorists and leave everybody else alone. And I think what we're seeing is that those victories where we are getting these terrorist affiliate uh uh individuals are not being reported it's only ever what we Quote unquote, don't want being reported that's being reported. Anything to fuel this fire that's being stoked right now in Lost City. Yeah, 100% right.
And that's what we're discussing, and we discussed in the last show. And by the way, we got an overwhelming response about that show. And so this is where people's hearts are right now. This is where we are as a nation. And this is, I would say, we are at a crossroads here.
If we don't get this right, Uh, we're gonna have some problems. You're 100% right. One of the things we did want to respond to was the people who texted us Exodus 22:21, and other verses that are very much like this. There's some in Deuteronomy, and there's some in, I think there's one in Genesis where Jacob is talking about it. But he says, It says in Exodus 22:21, You shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Yeah, which I guess is a way to say, Hey, you should just allow it. I guess this is what these commenters are saying: allow everyone to be kind to people who are not from here. And which is, yeah, sure. Yeah, absolutely. We should.
We should. I mean, I'm one of those people. Your grandfather was one of those people.
So, yes, absolutely. Don't be hateful, don't be mean to a foreigner who is in your land. In fact, in 1 Kings chapter 8 and verse 41 through 43, it says: Moreover, concerning a foreigner. who is not of your people Israel. When I hear something, people skip over.
Yeah. Moreover, concerning a foreigner who is not of your people Israel, but has come from a far country for your name's sake. I don't really like nuance in my scripture, though, Dr. Shaw. I don't like.
And then it goes on to say: For they will hear of your great name and your strong hand and your outstretched arm, talking about the living true God. That's right. When he comes and prays towards this temple. Not running around with no shirt and climbing on top of police vehicles. And waving a foreign flag burning Holmes and Shops And throwing concrete blocks on police cars No, this is a person who is a foreigner coming from a far-off country because they're hearing about the living true God and coming and praying towards this temple here in heaven, your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to you, that all peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you.
As do your people Israel, and that they may know that this temple which I have built is called by your name. very different Purpose for the foreigner to be there in the land of Israel. That's right. Now, wait a minute. I want to be counted in the nation of Israel and I want all the benefits and rights and privileges associated thereof, but I also want to keep my pagan worship.
I'm from the Canaanite, so I want to keep my pagan worship, and I still want to identify as a Canaanite, and I want to promote Canaanite culture and diminish Israelite culture.
Well, you got to go. Wait a minute. You got to go. I thought it should be kind of foreigners. Yeah, that's exactly.
That's the line of reasoning, though. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Yes. I think a lot of things, we didn't get a whole lot of those comments, but there's definitely some because people. And I see this in the media a lot too.
They want to oversimplify an issue. And they'll typically say, Well, it is just that simple. That's what it is. Either they're allowed in, or they're allowed, or they're not. And people are illegal or they aren't illegal.
But I think what we're talking about here is a very real problem that honestly, there are some people maybe getting caught up in the crossfire, but at the same time, just like you said yesterday, Dr. Shaw, if you're in the country illegally, you've committed a crime. Right. And I know that hurts to hear because that is your gardener. That may be people living across the street.
I get it. But you cannot function as a nation without laws. This is not. this is not their fault, you may say, but they took that chance to come illegally. And also the governments or those people in power who allowed this to happen, who tied the hands of our immigration authorities, Our border patrol and kept them from doing their job.
So finally, they are doing their job because they have support. From the government, from President Trump, to do their job, everybody's upset about it. It's like, no, that's what they're supposed to do. You said it so well in yesterday's episode. We've been functioning with laws suppressed or just not enforced for so long.
When now that they are enforced, it feels bad. It feels wrong. It feels wrong. And it's not. It's just a basic law enforcement.
Now, when I was in 1991, okay, 1991, immigration laws were pretty strict. And we, as outsiders, were to. You know, carry ourselves a certain way. Don't get involved in any kind of crime, or you'll be sent back.
Now we've come a long ways from that because now people are here doing some of the most heinous crimes. And being protected. And being protected. These sanctuary cities that began in the past They are terrible places for people like this to hide.
So, if you, as a family, are hiding your uncle, your brother, your son, your nephew, whoever. who is a criminal And then when they come for him and they see your Cousin over there, who is just illegal. He's not really a criminal. He's just illegal. Why are you keeping that person there?
Yeah. And then when everybody's taken, everybody's upset. And and I feel like man, should not have harbored that person. But th we were afraid because, you know, that person may hurt us.
Okay, there are other issues involved then. Yeah. Other issues involved.
So don't just blame the government. Don't just blame ICE. Don't just blame other people. Just know that. a a society cannot function like this.
without laws. And still be prosperous, it will fall apart. And we were. Yes. We were at the verge of completely spiraling down and losing it.
What year did you get your citizenship? You came to America in 91. 91, yes. I didn't come here to become an American citizen, honestly. I loved America.
Okay. Growing up as a Christian in India, we love America. I mean, we love America. Everything about America is wonderful. And especially in our home.
Mom and dad Raised us with such positive appreciation of the West, especially America, that I knew more American history than American people here. Did non-Christians feel the same way? Not always. In India. Not always.
Some, but not always. But here's what I want to say: I hope people don't, maybe this is a little side conversation. Across the world. If you don't listen to stupid leftist media. People love Americans.
Across the world, they love Americans. I think that's good for people to hear. Yeah, and I want to. We usually hear the opposite from our own media as well. You see that in movies, you see that in documentaries, or you know, locked up abroad or some shows like that.
It's like, yes, there are people who are crazy, but overall, I hate to say it. If Europeans are listening right now, love you. You're a great wonderful person. But when it comes to like Germans or Dutch or English or French or Italian or Portuguese, Nothing compared to Americans, people light up immediately. Why is that?
It's just something about America that people love. They just love it. Yeah. You know, I remember when we went to Greece and people, we were, we were obviously American. Yeah.
So when we were interacting with people and we were trying our best to throw in some Greek here and there, but you know, obviously our English came through. Everyone was so kind, so nice. And this wasn't just people who were like in the service industry. Right. It was people who were walking down the street, giving directions.
I mean, they genuinely like, oh, you're from America. I felt the same in Israel when we went to Israel. But somebody may say Greece, Israel, they're about, you know, as Western as it gets. How about someplace like Egypt?
Well, we were in Egypt and people loved us. I mean, we went to this famous mosque in Cairo that. We went to see and kind of, it's a historic site.
So we went, and nobody wanted pictures with me because I looked like them.
So that was nothing special. But they kept coming up to Nicole. Really? And girls. Right?
Gir and and wanted to take pictures with her in the mosque. Local girls? Yes. Wow. Local girls.
And so Nicole looked at him and was like, I think it's fine. They just want they just want to say, I took a picture with an American woman. Wow. They asked, she said, Are you American? And she said, Yeah, can I picture?
And so I said, That's fine. And they kept taking pictures. She's like, It feels kinda strange I'm like They just are Amazed, because you're an American and they're seeing you for the first time and you're Around them, so they want to take a picture with you. Wow. So you go to get your citizenship.
Do you feel like the. I get where I was going with that. Was it? Yeah, originally the question was really. When did you get your citizenship?
Yes, yeah. And it's not like I hated America. I loved America.
People all over the world love America, especially Christians, especially in our home. We really loved America.
So when I came here and Nicole and I got married, I didn't marry her for. American citizenship. Because if that was the case, I would have filed for citizenship in 1995 or 90 95 is when we got married. I think it's like a year or two after you you can do it.
So I could have done it in like say ninety eight or ninety nine. I didn't. Because that was not on my mind. Like I need to become an American citizen. It was just like Okay.
Were you here on a on a school visa? Mm-hmm.
Okay. But I became uh a green card holder.
Okay. And so it it would require money. I had to get a job, which I wanted to get anyways. I had to go for interviews. A lot of things had to happen for me to be able to have a green card.
So even then, the process was difficult and long. Yeah, it still is. Except people are bypassing that process.
Well, that's called illegal immigration. That's what I wanted to get at. Do you think there's any credibility to the fact that? Because. From the surface, this is an issue I'll never have to deal with.
I will never have to deal with the U.S. immigration process. Your grandfather did. My grandfather did. And I never met him.
I was never able to ask him, you know, what was the process like? Was it hard? And more to the point, was it worth it? You know, what we're seeing now, a lot of the pushback is it's impossible. It is absolutely impossible these days to do it the legal way.
Do you think there's any credibility to that? No. Do you think there are a lot of people from Mexico who live here, who work here, who are legal, who have green cards, who have work permits? They're doing it every day. I mean, look at the fields and the farms.
They're not all illegal immigrants. They are legal. They come on a work visa and they come and work.
So that's a lie to say that. What leads someone then to. I mean, people who are unsavory want to cross illegally, but what is the rhetoric? Like, why are people saying they have to come here illegally? Because.
Well, when a government just like our government has done what they did. Uh I'm talking about the past president and his agenda where completely made it a joke the border became a joke yeah President Trump was trying to build a wall. He was trying to trying to bring about proper immigration. And and it's not like people can from Mexico cannot come in. I mean, I've been to the Mexican border in near San Diego.
People come in and out all the time. I mean, it was kind of interesting standing there watching Hundreds of people. going across the border back and forth. Wow. They're because they work.
The people in San Diego who go to work in Mexico, and there are people from Mexico that come to work in San Diego, far more the one from Mexico to San Diego.
Okay, maybe a few go to. Toward Mexico, but mostly are coming this way. There's a train that runs all the way to the Mexican border. and and takes people and they go to their various stops to work.
So it's not like this like cartoon that we think of in our mind of this big long chain fence with guards. Like like there's there's an there's a border process system. Yes. I mean, of course there are guards and everything there, but yeah. Yeah, i if I had my passport with me I would have gone into Mexico that day.
But I didn't because and plus uh we had some other places to go and I was like, No, I don't have my passport, I don't want to get stuck with my license or something like that.
So I'd rather not. But yeah, people go in and out all the time, but they are They have proper legal documents to work in America in San Diego and the surrounding area.
So, yeah, you can do those things. And they're being done by. Millions of people. Right. And getting a visa.
And getting a visa is much, I'm assuming getting a visa or a green card or a work permit is much easier and simpler to get than a citizenship. But while you're getting your citizenship, those things keep you legally in the country. Right. So illegal immigration is usually because a government has made it a joke, and then people say, it doesn't matter. You don't have to go through the process.
Just go. It's fine. They'll give you food stamps. They will give you health care. They will give you social services.
Your kids can attend school. You can live, work, don't pay taxes. Do whatever you want to do. Yeah. So it's a lie when people say, oh, the process is too hard.
Millions are doing it every day. Right. They come, they work, they go home, they come back, they send money home. I watched it on the border, but even in North Carolina, there are so many who come and live and work and make a life. And so, then, when you do have a nation with an open border policy like that one, it makes it much easier for people who do mean harm.
To be able to cross, absolutely. Absolutely.
So, illegal immigration is then perpetuated, but also dangerous illegals also come in. Yeah. I think I've I can't remember if I've heard this, if I've heard us talk about it, or I've heard someone say this, but a nation without borders is not even really truly a nation. Right. Like, if there's not any borders and not any defined, like, this is the process that we're coming in, and this is what it means to be a part of this.
You can't even really call yourself a nation.
Well, what you just said is what people like George Soros have been fighting for for quite some time, which is take away all the borders. and turn this into just a free-for-all. Why do you imagine that is? Why what why would he want that? Uh I mean, just to completely weaken this country, because if this country is weakened, then people like him and others can perpetuate their social Marxist agenda.
This is the one country where we are still openly capitalist. And I'm not saying capitalism is a perfect system. I know there's abuses there, too. And definitely that happens. And that's why it's sad.
You need some. Conscience and morals and laws. Right. But At least you can work hard and and you can make a life and you can achieve the dream of having something in life. And so, if you can tear this down, then you can.
you know, spread your social Marxist agenda. and social Marxism does not work. It does not work. Marxism does not work, which is trying to reduce everybody down to the same level so that everybody will have their needs met and have all the basic things of life. Under the guise of Taking care of everybody is usually A small class rises to the s surface that becomes exactly what you're saying.
The bad capitalists do. Right. Right. There will always be some level of hierarchy. Yeah.
And I guess, I guess. The goal of Marxism is to make that hierarchy as small as possible. I think it's important for people to hear that, too. That there are people, there are forces in this country that are actively working to, and praise God for the changes that we were seeing, and they're not so much anymore, but working to. Weaken and dismantle structures in this country so that they can rise to power.
I think a an illusion that a lot of Americans have, and I think I've had, especially in the in the days following Um, 9/11 is that America certainly has enemies, but America's enemies are holed up in a cave somewhere with rocks and sticks and maybe some rockets, but. You don't think about America's enemies being here. Yeah. Oh, they got it. Over the past four years, I would say a lot of these people who have been taken out.
And again, the pictures the media paints for us and the news stories they show us and the reels we see on Instagram or Facebook or whatever else social media is all is just the poor families who are being separated. What they don't see, and what we're seeing, kind of interestingly, over the past few weeks in places like Los Angeles, is the real face of illegal immigration. Where you are um Flying The flag of another country. That to me is Is I wish it was funny because it's not funny, but it it it is as close to funny as it gets at the end of the day. It's so absurd that it's comical.
Like you want to stay here, but you're going to fly that flag. Yeah. And then When people have this false sense of confidence to get up and say, Well, let me tell you something, we've been here way before you got here, and so we got to work together to help. All of us. Yeah, I'm so glad we have finally woken up and the American public has spoken up and we are not listening to liberal media that we're all gone down this road of wokeism.
And finally, people are realizing: no, none of us, do you believe that? No, I don't believe that. Do you believe that? I don't believe that. None of us believe that, right?
Yeah, none of us have believed it. Yeah, none of us believe that.
Well, there's a whole lot of us, right?
Okay, great. Right, right. Because we don't agree with what he just said. That's right. The loudest ones do not represent the majority views.
Yeah. Media is not reality. Yeah, media has. Painted a picture of where America is today that even I was susceptible to it. I was like, maybe, not that personally, I believed it, but maybe we're a minority.
Yeah, because you want so desperately to trust the news. You know, that's because again, I mean, that's the whole setup. Military. And when our parents were growing up, and I'm sure when you were growing up as well, and I don't know if it was like this in India, but the news, you watch it because you trust it. It's all you have.
It's the only thing that you have. And when it came on, you know, like Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather and all these guys, when they would start talking, you're like, okay, they're telling me what's going on. They're not trying to persuade me of anything.
Well, Dan Rather was not a poster child for a single news reporting either.
Well, again, I'm a child of the 90s. I don't know. I just know he's old. But you know what I'm saying? There was a time when, before I was around, where you could trust the news.
You had no choice but to trust the news. And now, It's like, that's the one thing I don't trust. And I think we're starting to see that, especially with this, like you were talking about, you find a majority of Americans, and you can see this reflected in the last election. A majority of Americans seem to be on the same page. We're never hearing any of it, right?
Right. And finally, we're hearing it now when we're seeing most people standing up and saying, and even people from the Mexican community, by the way, I don't know if you've seen some of those. Yes, I have. Yeah, speaking out and saying, hey, I am an immigrant here and I have worked hard. You can see in their accent, and they even claim it's like I came from Mexico.
And what you're doing is dumb. Why are you flying the Mexican flag? Why are you here? And I thought that was great because a lot of people are calling.
some of these people out and saying, who are you? Yeah. And I'll tell you who they are. Many of these are Are Marxist socialists, and it's not just one country, one people. I'm I I've would say China is very, very much behind all of this and they are doing whatever they can to bring back the old antifuck behavior.
And what they didn't realize is, uh oh, This time is different, boys. This is a different nation now. You will get arrested. That's right. Pam Bondi is going to find you.
Tom Holman is coming for you. Yeah, he's coming. The big tech set is not backing down. No. You know, Cash Patel is still doing his job.
I mean, I can go on and on, but people aren't backing down. It's like, uh-oh. Yeah, and all these people thinking, oh, Gavin Newsom is going to save us. Are you serious? No, Gavin's checking out his hair.
Yeah, he's almost gone. Yeah. You're trying to play the same game, but we're under a different set of rules now. Yeah, because they did that last time. Last time when these things happened in some of these sanctuary cities, um.
Their hands were tied. The law enforcement and federal agents, I mean, couldn't do their job. Yeah. And it was horrible. But now it's like, uh oh.
Yeah. This is not going to end well for me. What should our response be, Dr. Shaw? How can we think about this?
We talked a little bit about this yesterday, but as believers, as the church, what can we do? How should we speak and think about this? Number one, pray for our nation. Pray for God to bring revival in our country. Pray that Christians would take the gospel of Jesus Christ very seriously.
Start sharing the gospel. Pray for our president.
Okay, pray for our president, pray for our leaders, pray for our troops, pray for the law enforcement, pray for the ICE agents, pray for all of them because they're trying to do a job. That's right. Pray for our migrant community. Absolutely.
I believe in praying for them. Pray for those who are here legally, that, man, they will take pride in who they are and not bow down to those who have compromised. Pray for those who are illegals. And I know there's a difference between those who are causing terrible damage and those who are just trying to eke out a living. Pray for both groups.
Pray for those who are good people, but man, they need to understand. Unfortunately, That day was coming when you would have to pay for this. You would have. repercussions and that they will understand that And and try for um the proper process To become American, or at least be here. And for those who have come here to do harm.
That God will change their hearts because there is a judgment coming on the other side. But guess what? The judgment here has also begun. Amen. Amen.
Guys, make sure you join us for tomorrow's episode. Same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes.
And you can always support us financially at ClearviewToday Show.com. John, what do you want to leave the listeners with today? Definitely want to plug our spot over at pray.com. You can follow Dr. Abadan Shah.
We are seeing that follower count grow more and more every single day.
So thank you for those of you who are following us. Thank you for those who are giving and supporting the ministry financially. We appreciate you and we look forward to speaking with you again. That's right. We love you guys.
We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today.
