Monday, May 12 | How to Bear with the Weak

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I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis and welcome to the Clearview Today studio, starting the week off right. We're going to start with God's word. We're going to start with a great conversation.

We're going to start with a great host. Dr. Abbadan Shah is a PhD in New Testament Textual Criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, welcome. There you go. There you go. Dr. Shah, welcome. Good to be here. Got to show respect next time.

You're right. Absolutely. Dr. Shah, we introduce you as a professor. How are classes going?

Very well. The semester has just come to an end and I am done teaching the semester classes, but I'm also supervising a PhD student in my field of textual criticism. And so I'm working with him right now in his comprehensive knowledge because that's an exam that's coming up next year, I believe. And so there's a list of questions, questions like explain all the important doctrines or the theology of scripture. So you're dealing with inspiration, inerrancy, authority, sufficiency, canon. So you're dealing with so many things there.

So I have to work with him and say, okay, are you ready with this? So for this, here's the resource. You need to read the canon of the New Testament by Bruce Metzger or the canon of the New Testament and older work by Westcott or read F.F.

Bruce's, the biblical canon, which is old and new test. So I am sort of busy, but in a different sort of way. So still in academic world, I'm also editing some essays that are coming up soon. So a lot of work going on, but it's good.

It's fun. Is this your first PhD student? This is my first PhD student.

How much of it is like doing the PhD work again, but without getting the doctorate at the end? I don't have to write, but other than that, I have to now be even more than I was with my own. Because in my own PhD work, I could rely on somebody.

Here, he's relying on me. So I have to make sure I stay ahead of the game and make sure that I'm up on every issue that he is going to be writing on in his subject. And so it's a lot. So the dissertation is not even being drafted right now.

Oh yes, it is. Yeah. He's down to the fourth chapter, but it's only the first draft. So there's going to be like four or five drafts. How many drafts did you go through?

Do you remember? Oh, I did my PhD much longer than other people because just the circumstances I had to deal with. Right. Sickness and then jobs and even my own, the topic I was doing was very, very controversial.

So I went through, I would say eight to 10 drafts. Holy moly. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, I'm actually being conservative there when I say that. It probably is more than that. I bet you were glad to get that thing turned in.

When I turned it in for the final time. Yeah. Yeah. It's not that easy. PhD work is not easy. It's tough. Now you can get a doctorate.

There are a lot of doctorates out there, even in the ministry world, but PhD is a research degree, especially if it's coming from an accredited university or seminary, then you have a standard to maintain and your professor, your mentor and your external readers will hold you to that standard. That's right. And it's tough, but it's worth it. It's worth it.

That's right. Well, Dr. Shah, today's check-in is coming to us from Jose over in Dallas. Ryan, you want to read the check-in today?

I would love to. Jose says, Hey, y'all just wanted to chime in. Hey, Jose. I saw that AI image of Trump as the Pope. And honestly, I wasn't offended.

I grew up Catholic, but I was with Dr. Shah. It's funny how people always want to be offended for me until I actually want them to be. We're living in strange times, still tuning in and loving the show, Jose and Dallas. Wow.

That's really cool. I think Jose is right. Like a lot of people want to be offended for other people, but they have an ulterior motive. They're coming in to fight for us when you're really not fighting for us. You're really fighting against us. And when we see through you and we say, no, we don't need you. Trust us when we say we don't need you.

I thought that was going to be the case. We did an episode on that a couple of days back last Thursday. And we asked for people, hey, write in, let us know, are you genuinely offended? Especially people who are Catholic.

And Jose, thank you for writing in. That's a pretty big marker of media, especially leftist media is using someone else's perceived experience as ammunition for their cause. Right. Because they have an agenda. Their agenda is to tear down America, to take it from the foundational values and to create a new America, which actually is not going to stand.

And here's the thing. I believe they don't want it to stand. Because these are the same people who are calling for open border. These are the same people who are talking about removing religion completely. And what they mean by that is Christianity completely from the public square. They're the people who are advocating for people to come here who are known terrorists and destroy our country.

I am not for a moment sympathetic with such people. You're right. It's a worldview built on spite. America can't be what I want.

So I'm clearly not going to get it, but I'm going to ruin it for you. I'm going to make sure if I don't have the America I want, you're not getting. Right. And they don't want the America we have. They want to remake it, tear down, divide it. And so, and these are outside forces that have come in here and have been here for, I would say, for quite some time.

Yeah. And I'm grateful that prayers have been answered. And a lot of good is happening in our nation.

A lot of good, a lot of positive. I hate to golly, we're on such a positive note right now. And you know, I fear that, I fear that we're going to take a turn. It's time for the gripe vine. I have got a gripe. Welcome to the gripe vine.

Dr. Shaw got a gripe today. Okay. Bring it on. I am, I am steamed boy. I'm steamed. And it's all because of your sister. Oh no.

I'm kind of joking. I'm not really steaming, but I did think this was kind of funny. She's here at the church and she is, was unloading some stuff out of the dishwasher. And so I had some, some food that I had left and she opened the fridge and she said, whose food is this?

I said, oh, that's mine. I meal prepped it. I meant to, I'll just throw it away, toss in the sink.

And I even said, you know what? I'll rinse it out. Cause she's putting stuff in. I don't want her scraping my food. So I rinsed it out, left it in the sink. She said, oh, you have to put these in the dishwasher so you can take them home. I said, no, no, I'll just, I'll rinse them. And then I'll take them home and we'll wash them there. She says, no, they're not clean. You have to put them in the dishwasher. I said, I understand that, but you don't have to do that.

I don't want you to have to worry with it. I'll just take them home. I'll wash them there. She said, you cannot take them home.

They are not clean. I'm telling you, you have to put them in the dishwasher to wash them. I said, all right, Libby, go ahead and put them in the dishwasher or whatever. So I, she, she's like, no, I'm not going to do it.

They're yours. I said, okay, fine. I put them in the dishwasher, walked away. I said, thank you for washing the dishes.

Blah, blah, blah. She said, I can tell you do not help Ellie at the house. You don't help her. You don't wash the dishes. You don't do the, she said, you don't do the laundry.

I know that. I said, Libna, golly. So we start picking back and forth. So I asked her, I said, so who did the laundry at your house? Who did the dishes at your house?

Was it your mom or was it your dad? She was like, oh no, no, no, they didn't do the dishes. I said, oh, so you did all the dishes at the house. She said, no, no, no, no. We had servants.

I said, what? She said, yes, we had servants. I said, Libna, you're getting on to me for not doing the dishes at my house.

You don't even know that. That's that's true between the three of us, but she don't know that. I said, you're getting on to me for not doing the dishes at my house, but you didn't do the dishes at your house. You said you had service. She's like, yes, we had servants.

We had, they would come in, they would do the, but we paid them. And so I asked, I said, so did your dad make a lot of money as a job? She said, no, he had like four jobs. I said, golly. I said, so what does it take for me to get a servant here?

She said, I would do it, but you have to pay me a lot of money. Well, the thing is, let's clarify the meaning of servant to start with. It's not servant in the sense of like a slave or like an indentured servant or slave, whatever. Servants over there are simply workers. Like a maid. Like a maid.

Yeah. They come, yeah. The house cleaner. So they come, it's an unfortunate word they've been using. Servants. Servants. Because it sounds like so, so, you know, wrong for 21st century, but really there are people who are house cleaners and they have like a service, except they don't have a service like we see today with people in minivans. You know, they have all their stuff in there and they go on different homes at different times of the week and they clean.

But servants in India, they come to your house and then they will do their chores that you have assigned them to do for a certain amount of money. And man, some of them make good money. So the good money.

Just between you, me and the 6 million people listening to this. Right. Did Libna do her chores as a kid?

No. I knew it. Well, we were told study, study, get education, work hard so that you can go and do great things in the world. I mean, that's pretty much whether you're Christian or not. Right. Your parents tell you that in India. And so here are the servants. And by the way, not every Indian family had a servant. Right. Those who were able to afford it would do that.

So you can do other things. And we treated our servants like normal people. Some people may not treat their servants normally like how they're supposed to, but we did.

Your sister also said something else. Did your dad own a restaurant? Did he have a restaurant business?

Back in the eighties when my brother was in England, we were really strapped for money because my dad was supporting him. Right. He didn't, he couldn't work there.

Just like Libna doesn't work here. Right. She volunteers.

She helps out when she is not in school. So he needed money. So my dad had to send him money from India, which had to be converted into pounds so he could pay his bills. Right. So in that time period, for about a year or two years, dad opened a restaurant, which was a disaster. Really? Yeah. Because it's a different life.

It's a different life. What type of restaurant was it? It was just Indian food. Indian food. Yeah.

Okay. And it was not a high class restaurant. It was not really low class either.

It was somewhere in the middle. Did you work at the restaurant? I did some, but it was, it was not for our family. But I do understand why my parents did that.

They didn't do it to get rich. They did it so they could have money to send to my brother. Wow.

And when I was in America, yes, I did get the president's scholarship because of my grades, but there were a lot of things I had to pay for. And my mom and dad would send me $60 every month. Wow. And they would do that through a missionary who was supporting people in India. And he would, my dad would send him the money and then he converted into dollars and sending the money and he would give the Indian money.

And so they were able to do what he wanted to do in India. And my dad was able to pay him back. That's awesome. Wow.

Yeah, that's awesome that it was able to work like that. Yeah. Without a shot, it's Monday. That's right.

Start of the week. So give our listeners and our viewers some, some little nugget of wisdom, little daily wisdom that we can carry with us throughout the week. Well, recently I was talking to our staff. I was talking to them about people who we can love, but at the same time we can see ulterior motives in them.

Uh, it's great to have them working together with us, but at the same time you can see they're not completely with you. How do you deal with those kinds of people? Unless those people are malicious, unless those people are doing things actively to, to sabotage or thwart what you're trying to do as a church or as a business. The Bible tells us in Romans 15 verse one, we then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak and not to please ourselves. Scruples means hesitation.

Scruples means this sense of weak mindedness, not like you're foolish, but weak minded, like you're not all in for whatever reason. How do you deal with those kinds of people? Don't throw them out. Don't shun them. Bear with them. That's a good point. But at the same time, don't be swayed by them. Yes.

Yes. That's a weakness that I've had in the past because I've definitely had, you know, like on a worship team, really any like ministry led team, you'll have people who are like, okay, the leader is casting a vision. Here's where I want this worship team to go, or here's where I want this, this youth group or this, whatever this ministry is going somewhere. And then you have people who are like, I'm bought into that vision. I want to be part of it just, and then there's other people who's like, I just want to play.

I'm just here to, I'm just here to, I'm here for what I can get from this. Correct. Correct. But they may be talented people. And I think the mistake I've made, and especially in worship, a lot of people make is like, well, okay, they're really good on guitar or they're really good on bass or they're really good on drums. So I'm going to just give them what they want. And so you end up treating them as though they are like the linchpin of your ministry when really they're just like, Hey, I'm here just kind of for me. And I don't even mind that if there are certain people like that, that's fine. As long as they don't bring their ulterior motive or they start sabotaging and becoming a stumbling block to building God's kingdom. As long as that's not happening, I'm like, okay, I can manage you and we can still keep moving forward. But the moment you see them doing evil things, sinister things, that's when you have to go, okay, I can let you do that.

That's right. So we're not talking about those kinds of people who will try to tear down what you're trying to build up. We're talking about people who have, whether through their personalities or through their upbringings or because someone has sort of poisoned their mind, whatever, but they're not against you. They're not trying to actively tear down what you're doing, but they're not wholeheartedly with you. There's a sense of hesitation. Scruples, by the way, some of you can quickly find the definition.

Just one person can find a definition of scruples. Paul says here, and this is a very important verse, by the way, this is Romans chapter, since I'm in the book of Romans, I'm trying to bring that book up here. It says, we then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples, the word is astenema. Astenema means failings or weaknesses.

Astenema means failings or weaknesses. We ought to bear with the failings or weaknesses of others. So there's a lot of people I think who are in ministries or heading up ministries where they do have those people where you feel tension and maybe you don't know what's going on with that. Maybe it's like, okay, I don't know if this person has a problem with me, or I don't know if this person has a problem with what's going on, but I never feel full buy-in, or I always feel some sort of tension, but they're always here. They're not, like you said, Dr. Shaw, they're not working against me. They're attending faithfully. They maybe even be giving. Even elements of what they bring are helpful. But then where's this weird tension coming from? It's, is it only the fact that they're not completely bought into the vision or is it something more?

Is there something that's lying in wait, waiting for the right moment to strike? Yeah, that's a great, great. I don't want to be a paranoid leader either. Right, right. I don't know. I don't know. I don't have the best answer for that. But what I do know is that we don't become proactive in trying to remove people.

Of course, we need to protect that business or that church or that team. But at the same time, you're not trying to constantly uproot people. Even Jesus gives that parable where you have this crop, right? You have this well plowed land and, and you have sown the good crop, whatever that crop may be, wheat or barley or whatever. And then the enemy comes and he sows the wrong seeds, the bad seeds.

And the servants find out and they go to the master and say, what do we do? Because we know there's a whole different crop here. And this is not a crop. This is a weed. This is harmful. This is not good.

This is not going to help you. And the enemy doesn't say, okay, go out there and just remove all the bad elements. No, he says, let it grow until harvest time. And when the harvest comes, then we can separate them. Because if you do it now, you may pull out even the good ones.

Wow. So don't do that right now. So there are times you have to cast out the scoffer. So contention will cease. But then there are times you go, this is not a scoffer.

This is somebody who is weak-minded, somebody who is hesitating, somebody who's not completely with you. Bear with them. And maybe that's a great way to put it, to bear with them. Because there may be people out there who are kind of like me where it's like, okay, so it's okay for these people to be here to be part of your ministry. So I'm going to treat them just like I treat everybody else. Don't do that. But yeah, because exactly, because then you're elevating them. And then elevating them to a place of, and it comes from a sense of like people pleasing or insecurity or whatever. But yeah, I agree.

You can't do that. And I've learned that the hard way too many times where you put people all on the same level. And now these people who are not bought into the vision are like, wait, I guess I'm kind of important here. I'm going to start enacting my vision.

I guess it's time to do it. And then they begin to go to other people around you. And you're going, wait, are you talking to them about this?

And you're trying to, you're bringing your vision in, or you're trying to, what's the word I'm looking for? Contradict, contradict what I just told our people, but you're saying them something different. Or you're even at times mocking me as I am trying to enact something good.

You're over here going, I just don't think that's going to work. Well, I guess we'll go with it. Oh, wait, that's not allowed. Right.

100%. That's not allowed. Or I know he's saying that, but I just don't think it's going to work. Oh, wait. Time out.

Can I talk to you for a moment? That is not going to work. Yeah.

You cannot do that. Now, if you don't do that, and if you're weak and you're shy, or he's like, I don't want to, then tap into my courage if you need to. Well, yeah. And I would say, don't be that way. Cause what's going to end up happening is someone who's over, if you're not the lead pastor, what's going to end up happening is he will have to get involved. Right.

And now people, instead of not appreciating you, they're going to attack him. Right. And you don't want to ever do that, especially if you're like a worship pastor or a student pastor or whatever it may be. You don't want to bring someone else in to correct your mistake. Yeah. And also you want to correct it early. You know what I mean?

But I've definitely done that. And I think there's people who are here, who are listening, who are like, well, I have these people and they're not fully bought in, but they're not troublemakers either. Yeah.

And I think that weekly wisdom that you gave is. Bear with them. Just bear with them. And don't please yourselves because pleasing myself would be like, I'm the boss. I'm in charge.

I need to feel good. No, don't please yourselves. Bear with them. That's right. Great point. Helpful for us. If you guys are applying that weekly wisdom, let us know two, five, two, five, eight, two, five, zero, two, eight, right.

And let us know how you take that word of wisdom from Dr. Shah this week and put it into practice. Scruples, by the way, feelings of doubt or hesitation with regard to the morality or propriety of a course of action, some synonyms, qualms or hesitations. It comes from Latin, by the way. Really?

Yeah. It means like a pebble in your shoe. Oh, that kind of gives you some hesitation.

I'm pretty sure that's what scruples means coming from the Latin. It's like a sense of hesitation. One of the things I think one of the best ways that you have improved me as a leader and I think just even as a man, as a father and as a husband is by getting rid of hesitation, hesitation and hesitancy, I think is the one thing that kills most ambitious people because everybody has ideas.

Right. And everybody has like, I want to, I want to do this and I want to, I want to change the world. It's like, but I don't know if now's the time. I don't know if this has gotten God's timing or if this is my timing. So let me just sit back. Oh, is this going to make somebody angry or frustrated or mad or upset? So I'm just going to hang back.

Did you find it? Yep. That's exactly what it means. Scruples from the Latin scrupus, which literally means rough pebble.

Rough pebble. Okay. There you go. But that's the English word in the Greek. The word as we mentioned is asthenema.

Asthenema. Yeah. Got you. Got you. Which is same thing.

Scruples. I believe so. I'm still trying to make sure I have the right one. Um, so let's see, we can go ahead and find it right now. While, while he's finding that, we'll say we had an episode planned on, we were not, we were not going to talk about, um, ministry and stuff today. We were going to talk about, uh, the flesh.

We were going to talk about some of the things on the flesh, but since we have eight minutes left on the show, Dr. Shuh, do you have any advice for someone who's trying to bear with people, but just can't seem to get it right? Yeah. Again, the word is asthenema.

I just looked it up. Uh, well, it's, it is part of ministry. This will always be part of ministry. Think about in Jesus' among the Jesus, among Jesus' disciples, there were people who hesitated. There was one who didn't, and that was Simon Peter. That's why he became the leader. Simon Peter was not the leader because he was the most knowledgeable. Of course, he, we, we sort of underestimate him because we think, oh, Simon Peter was just a, just a dumb fisherman.

That's not true. When you read first, second Peter, you see how deep he was in theology and the old Testament. So yeah, he was not foolish, but Jesus could have picked Matthew. Matthew could read and write really well. Matthew ended up writing the gospel, the gospel of Matthew, which is the most quoted gospel. He was good at keeping lists.

Think about the, the, the genealogy, all those kinds of things. So it would have been very easy for Jesus to say, Matthew is going to be my leader. It could have been easy for him to say, no, not Matthew. How about Andrew? Andrew is the more levelheaded person. Andrew is the one who goes out and gets people. You know, Andrew went and got Peter to come follow Jesus. That's right. Jesus could have made Andrew the head of the disciples. I mean, go down the list. In fact, somebody said it kind of mockingly, a great candidate to lead the ministry would have been the one who understands money well.

That's true. And guess who that was? That was Judas. Yeah, Judas could have been the one because man, he gets the money sense. Let's make him the head of the disciples. Jesus didn't do that.

That's right. He picked Peter because Peter, we often say he was impulsive. I don't believe he was just impulsive. I believe he was willing, willing to take Jesus by faith, not impulsive, but willing to go, I'm going to do it.

If it's you, ask me to come walk on the water. Right. I'll follow you. Right. Other disciples didn't always do that. Yeah. I think a lot of times we find ourselves, everybody wants to be a Peter in that sense, where you want to be the first to step out. But I think a lot of times we end up finding ourselves that we're, we're sort of like the other disciples where it's like, Hey, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to give my life for this. As long as I see someone else does do it first. Yeah.

Yeah. Let me just have an example of someone to follow so I know that it's safe. And then I'm all in and I'm, I'm, I'm that way. And I wish I weren't. And I'm praying to be more like a Peter, but I'm definitely the type where it's like, Hey, if we're all in, I'm all in, but it's not, it's, it's very rarely I'm all in first. But also keep in mind that with, with that kind of a mindset that, Hey, I'm, I'm in, if my master, my savior, my Lord, and my God is out there, then I'm going to follow him. That also sometimes leads to impulsive behavior. I'm not saying Peter was just impulsive, but it can lead to that. Like on the night of he was crucified.

Yeah. Peter, stay here. Pray.

Keep the disciples. No, I'm going to follow you. Don't come after me. No, I'm going to even die for you. Well, before the night's over, you're going to deny me three times. Okay. Well, I'm doing it anyways.

Messed up badly. Right. Yeah. So there are some drawbacks to that, but overall that's the kind of person you want to lead somebody who's willing to step out and take the risk. But the others didn't, they were not always as as willing to trust Jesus and Jesus had to bear with them. He had to even bear with Judas who Jesus knew the whole time.

He's going to betray me. Right. And in one sense, it seems like what's the big deal. Jesus is God.

He was going to do this anyways. So what? But Jesus was also fully man without sin, but fully man, which means in his humanity, you can imagine him going, you're over here talking. So wonderful and lofty. And you're sitting around this table and talking about, is it I Lord?

Is it me? What is wrong with you? After all the miracles, after everything, the son of man indeed goes, but woe to the man by whom he goes.

You have an opportunity to stop and come to me and seek help. I'm going to be betrayed anyways, but it doesn't have to be you. But Jesus still had to bear with him. He didn't let him sabotage, but he did let him do what he wanted to do. Great point.

That's a powerful truth I had never really thought about before. Jesus was going to be betrayed, but it didn't have to be Judas. Yeah. Jesus says that, right? He says, you know, woe to the man. Yeah.

The son of man indeed goes, but woe to the man through whom he goes. Wow. Man, that's powerful. It is. That was a light bulb moment. Yeah.

That's a impactful moment for sure. And I'm struggling to find the right words to put it because you often feel as a leader, you feel like a failure when you have, or maybe not feel like a failure, but you feel like, man, why do I have to deal with this? I wish everybody was just think like me, be on the same page.

We're all going together. But then you do have those people who are hesitators, or maybe you do even have those people who are wolves and they get in and you're like, how did I let this happen? How did I let the organization, the team down to this level? Then you remember Jesus had the exact same problem and it wasn't due to poor leadership. Maybe it's just the nature of leadership that you're going to have those people.

The nature of leadership and the nature of people. Amen. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow. Same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clear Read Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes, and you can always support us financially at ClearViewTodayShow.com. John, what do you want to leave our listeners with today? Definitely want to say, make sure that you're following us on Pray.com. Dr. Avidan Shah, we're passing 4.5 followers. Very pleased with that.

I want to get us all the way. 4.5 thousand, I should say. We have more than, we have more than almost five followers. Yeah, we got four followers and one little kid, so 4.5. 4.5 thousand followers. We're trying to get up to 5k before the end of the week.

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