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So thanks for your support. Thank you to Mighty Muscadine for sponsoring today's show. Now let's get started. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and we are excited to start off the week right here in the Clearview Today studio with Dr. Abbadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show.
Dr. Shah, welcome to the studio. It's good to be here. All these peoples, all these peoples, all these listeners and viewers start their week off the right way. You've got to start your week off with the right way, man.
We start our week off with TV and movies and binge watching all this stuff. But man, what about just starting with the word of God, huh? First of the day is coming to us from Ephesians chapter 4 and 20.
This is one of my favorite books in the whole Bible. Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor working with his hands what is good so he may have something to give him who has need. No, Dr. Shah, I've never shoplifted, so I think I'm good. I've never robbed a bank, so I haven't stolen anything. I think I'm fine. No, people steal from God all the time.
They do. Well, the heart of it is leaving behind the old family values and embracing and owning and living by the new family values. We were all born in the family of Adam, and when we are born again, we're born into the family of the new Adam, who is Jesus Christ. And so when it talks about leaving behind stealing or all the other sins, we're simply saying that no longer represents me because that's not the family in which I was born and raised.
I am now part of a family that is godly, a family that is holy, the family that glorifies Jesus Christ. So did you guys ever, did you guys ever walk out of a store on accident without paying for something? Yes. So let me ask you this. Are you the type to go back? Oh, 100%. Really?
Yes, absolutely. Dr. Shah, have you ever done that? I have done that one time, and we did go back. We did. So I didn't go back.
It was at Sheetz. I think I've told this story on the show where I paid for myself, Ellie, I mean it was like 40 bucks. It was like myself, Ellie, and two kids, and we paid for everything.
I'm sorry, we ordered everything. They just handed me the food, and I drove away. And halfway home, I realized I still had the cash in my hand on the steering wheel.
Oh, no. And it was like 1130 at night, and I was like, what? I remember you sharing that story.
What should I do? That was a little bit different circumstances because they didn't ever take the money. There was no transaction that took place, and you were already on the way home. Is it stealing if I don't mean to steal? It's kind of stealing a little bit. I feel like it still is. But I'm forgiven, right?
Well, sure, yes. So I remember another thing. My mom used to do that. I don't know why people used to do this, but they would drink drinks in the store and then pay for the empty bottle. And I remember once I drank a drink in the store and threw the bottle away just not thinking. I threw it away before we went up to pay for it. And we got home, and I remember my mom getting stressed out to where she got in her car, went back up there, and paid for it. And I was like, Mom, I think it's fine.
It's like a $2 bottle. She couldn't do it. She had to pay for it. That's what makes your mom so special because she was teaching you how to be honest, teaching you how to be responsible. And of course, those are values that stay with you the rest of your life. Amen.
Amen. Speaking of honesty and responsibility and wise values, I want to start a new segment today. It's Monday. It's a fresh start.
We got a clean slate. All of our segments typically are confined to one show, to one episode. But I want to start a segment that goes the entire week, and that is Dr. Shah's Word of Wisdom. I want you to give us a piece of wisdom that we can carry throughout the week and maybe periodically through the week we can check back in and see how that piece of wisdom is coming to fruition in our lives and even in the listeners' lives because I want you guys to write into the show and tell us how you're applying it. Kind of like a word of the day, but this is your wise thought, your wise saying for the week.
Yeah. The one that comes to my mind, and I hope it will help other people because it helps me a lot, is when it comes to facing difficult situations or you are up against an obstacle and it seems like, man, I don't know how we're going to get through this one or this is a big challenge. This is one of those situations where I don't see a quick resolution. Don't immediately jump to the worst case scenario.
Don't think that it's over. That's what people often do is like, this is it. I mean, there's nothing, can't do anything about it.
Yeah, I'm sorry. We like to say, we like to do that. And one of the things I told our team when they came on board here is don't do that, right?
To give people a sense of hopelessness and everything they can, sorry. Because that's the case for so many people, like you said, we just love to default to no. And a lot of people you'll find do that.
They love to say no, or they love to keep you from doing something, or they love to say, well, if you do that, here's the catastrophic result that is going to come up. So just don't do it. Yeah, the door is closed and that's that. And I want you to know that if you trust God, if you look to Jesus Christ for answer, the door is never, ever closed. Stop closing the door before God closes the door. Now that God may close the door and say, this is, this is it.
And you need to find another way and I'm finding another way for you, but this is done. And that's fine. That is completely God's prerogative. But many times it's just a sense of fear. It's because we haven't been exposed to bigger things. It's because we were raised in homes and with families that were very quick to say, that's it. That's our boundary. That's our boundary. And we carry those experiences.
And here's the sad reality. You may not be able to ever completely shake it off. It may stay with you the rest of your life.
And so being on this team, thank God for being on this team. This is helping you not say, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's, it's not possible. And that's not true.
Yeah. I can attest to that personally. One of the biggest life lessons I've ever learned through Dr. Sean through this place is the power of yes.
And I don't mean like yes, like become a yes man. I mean, like learn to learn to you, you genuinely can't, this sounds like a podcast bro thing to say, but you can manifest positivity. Not that I'm manifesting it. God is the one doing it. Absolutely. Everything that we're saying is based on the power and the plan and the sovereignty and the providence of God. It's not us, but, but, but yes, allows him to do it through your life and to operate from a perspective of anything is possible. We just have to find the right route.
That's right. And, and understand what pitfalls may lie along the way. Like if we do this, then this is something we need to take into account, but this is the goal and we're going to make this happen. I mean, that's transformative.
When you think about it that way, that's something you've shared with me over the years and it's transformed my thinking about not just work here, but ministry in life. Say yes, and then figure out the details along the way. As long as it's a godly thing, you know, you're not saying yes in the sense of go rob a bank. Right.
Say yes, right. Then we need to revisit that scripture. Now hold on, because I think really we could, we could really use this money for God's kingdom. We could get, we could get like a private jet. By robbing a bank?
By robbing a bank, if we, no. Oh, okay. That's, that's going to be a no. That one? Right out.
That one's right out. Okay. Yeah.
What if it's a godly thing? No, don't let that one, um, uh, you know, closed door stop you from trying again or the door is closed again the next day or the door is closed again the day after. Does not mean you need to give up or stop trying.
Or if you come across an obstacle in your planning and your purposing, don't stop and go, well, I guess it's not meant to be. Yeah. Yeah. No, if it's a godly thing, if it's going to build God's kingdom, you, you try again, you try again. And that's one of the secrets to Clear We Church. We don't give up. That's right. So, so the way the weekly wisdom segment is going to work is maybe Tuesday, maybe Wednesday, Thursday, we're going to revisit that and see how that's manifesting in our lives throughout the week. And I don't want it to be for us. I want it to be for the viewers too. I want you guys to write in.
That's right. You can do that at 252-582-5028. I believe that somebody who's listening and watching today needed to hear that. Yeah, put it in your check-in. There's some situation that is going on in your life that that was the answer that you've been looking for. So write in and let us know how you're applying that wisdom.
252-582-5028. We're going to take a quick break and be right back with more Clear View Today. Hey. Hey, you. Me? No, not you.
You. Listening to the Clear View Today show. You're here right now because you love Christian talk radio and I'm 100% down for that. But what if I told you that Clear View Church also produces original music?
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Hopefully that's going to be out sometime this coming summer. Clear View worship on iTunes and Spotify is your 24-7 place for inspiration and worship. Follow us today and let God's message of hope, love and faith be a guiding light in your life. Amen. Let's hop back into the show. Welcome back to Clear View today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. Dr. Shah, on Friday, we pulled a bit of a cliffhanger. Everyone loves a good cliffhanger. Everybody loves a good cliffhanger, man. Just keep them coming back for more. And I got to say, we left them on the edge of a big cliff, right? Because sin and death have entered the world.
And whether we think it's fair or not, that's what it is. It feels kind of hopeless. But you mentioned in the intro that we were born into this family, the Addams family, if I may say that.
It was like muscle memory. I couldn't help it. It's kind of funny because they do look kind of dead. Like you don't want to, whether it's Addams family in the Bible or the Addams family, you don't really want to be a part of it. They are creepy and they're kooky.
They're positively ooky. But you also mentioned that you don't have to stay in Addams family. You can switch families. And that's the good news. Amen to that. I will go ahead and say this now. I was going to wait till the end and say it, but let me just go and say it now. We are all born in Addams family. Jesus came, the new Adam. And so we can make a family transfer to the new Addams family.
You don't have to be stuck in Addams family. Especially, are y'all ready for this? I'm ready. Especially, are y'all really ready for this? I'm really, really ready. Hang on one second. I'm holding on.
Yeah, I'm ready. Even Adam is not stuck in his own family. What? Hey, look, he was clothed in God's righteousness. When he sacrificed that lamb and put that skin as a covering for Adam and Eve, Adam and Eve are not in their own family. Right. I know we've got more to talk about, but if the head of the family leaves the family, it's time for y'all to get up.
Think of the most colossal mess up, the most colossal goof up you've ever done in your life. Adam takes the cake by a million. But if he is in heaven, there's no reason that you can't, that you can't put the same faith in God.
Absolutely. And here's the thing, because he's no longer the head of the family, someone else is ruling that family. Who do you think that someone else would be? That's Satan.
Oh yeah. So you have a choice either to stay in Adam's family, i.e. Satan's family, or join Jesus' family, the new Adam family.
Great point. So here's something just before you say it. So the whole Adam's family joke, Dr. Jha preached on this on Easter Sunday and you said, you said Adam's family values, which was, he was talking about like, like in the Christian life, you're living by Adam's family values, but Adam's family values was like the direct, it was one of the movies where they go to summer camp when they have the third baby. They remember the baby with the mustache? Oh yeah, yeah.
And it was Pubert. I thought Dr. Jha did it on purpose because he said Adam's family values like three times and I was like, surely, that's not very good. I think it was like direct to DVD. I don't think it ever went to theaters. Anyway, just before you said Adam's family values, I really just wanted to get that out there.
It was not very good. Much like the family values of Adam. Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Who is not in his family anymore. No, no. Or Nor Eve.
And we have that same hope. Yes. Neither is Cain and neither is Abel.
Isn't that crazy? Like we tend to think, we think of them like, like Adam is the like, okay, you messed up, you messed up bad. But Cain is like, that's an evil guy. He killed his brother. So we don't think of them as being safe.
We don't think of them as being justified. We often think about Cain as sort of an irredeemable character. Yes. The irredeemable.
He's like the model of intentional sin. Right. Yeah. Right.
But if you think about his conversation with God, when God was, he said, put a mark on me. You know, this, I cannot survive. I cannot make it without you. That is huge. That is huge.
Yeah. And of course, Abel himself was saved. And again, maybe we're stretching it. I don't think we are.
But if, if the main family has vacated the family homestead, why are you staying there? Well, well, it, maybe you're stretching it, but I don't think you are because think about what you like, like you believe that, and I think, I think you're right on this, that it wasn't God slaying that animal and putting him on, on Adam and Eve that saved them, right? It was the faith that they had that that coming son was doing. I mean, yes, it was symbolic. And yes, that had to happen. That sacrifice had to happen because we know that the sacrifice of Christ had to happen, but Adam still had faith.
Adam and Eve had faith in that promise. Absolutely. And I guess to an extent, you could say that Cain did too, right?
Yes. Because he, because he did repent. That's right. I mean, he still had to be punished. He still had to be cast out, but. That's right. There were consequences. Right.
He said, people are going to try to kill me because of this. And there was a sense of, of return to God. There was a sense of repentance.
Again, maybe somebody may say that's a little too stretched and no, I'm not going to wage my whole life savings on it, but I think if the main family has already vacated the family home, don't stay there. So what does that means of family transfer for us? What does that, what does that look like and how do we live that out? So if I were to kind of explain this a little bit further, the Old Testament describes death as a cosmic power.
So we are separated from self, others, and God, and we are united with sin and death. Is that poetic or is that like, uh, is death as a force? Is it actually a living force, a cosmic power? You can say it's a little poetic or metaphors are being used, but I think the more I study the Old and the New Testament, that it is described as a power. It's a spiritual mechanism that functions.
Right. That's what is referred to as in the apocalyptic view of the book of Romans, where you realize that these, these are power. Sin is a power. Death is a power. Grave is a power. Sin is a power. So all of these are powers coming against you, whom Jesus fought back and destroyed. It's not a person, but it's a force. It's a power. It's a power.
Okay. So let me give you a couple of examples coming from the Old Testament. The first one is Isaiah chapter 25 and verse 8, where it says that God will swallow up death forever. So death is a separate entity that comes and unites us with itself, used by the enemy. And it says that God is going to swallow death up forever.
And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces because death had so engulfed us. Like, um, uh, what is that? That Spider-Man show where, where venom kind of comes over. Yeah. Yeah.
And the symbiote completely engulfs him. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it is. That's kind of what death has done.
Yeah. To peel death off of you is what Jesus came to do. You can't, no, there's no bell tower that's going to, that's going to peel that off. No, no sonic boom, no fire, nothing.
No, no, no. Where did, if these are cosmic powers, where did they originate from? How did they arrive into the world? Through the enemy.
Through the enemy. Death came in, separation. Death is separation, physical separation and spiritual separation. My separation from my body. Um, my separation from my loved one, my spouse and my separation from God, these ideas and these powers and forces were brought in by the enemy. You will not die. You will not be separated.
What do you mean? And then because of sin and disobedience, God's judgment comes and these forces are now born. And these forces are opposed to God.
Absolutely. They're enemies of God. That's right. In Hosea chapter 13 verse 14, I will ransom them from the power of the grave. I will redeem them from death. Oh death, I will be your plagues.
Oh grave, I will be your destruction. Now here, Paul later on in first Corinthians chapter 15, he's going to quote this and he does that. First Corinthians chapter 15 and I believe it's verse 54. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, death is swallowed up in victory. Exactly what Isaiah and Hosea have said. He's quoting from the Old Testament.
It's funny cause Paul is quoting Isaiah and Hosea who are in turn quoting God, like the I will ransom them from the power of the grave. It's funny that God is putting so much emphasis and so much, I don't want to say giving credit to, but he's putting so much weight and gravity on the power of death. But what humans do is say, look man, it's all, it's natural. This is a natural part of life.
It's just part of life. Like why are we minimizing death when God says that's a big deal? That's a great point. Because we are covered in death. We are covered in death. We cannot see life apart from death.
Wow. We cannot see life apart from death. We take the inevitability of it to mean that it's good. It's fine. It's fine. Don't be afraid of it. Man, don't be afraid of dying.
We just explain it away because we can't conceive of a world where it doesn't exist or it doesn't have power over us. When a person says, I mean, don't be afraid of dying. If they're saying it because Jesus Christ is the Lord and savior of that life. Praise God. Thank you for saying that. But if they're saying without having Christ in their life, what they're saying is given to this power.
Let this power swallow you and let it consume you as part of who you are. It's kind of, it's kind of sad. Like I think of all the artists and poets and like novelists and filmmakers who have tried to make death beautiful.
You know what I mean? Like, like they want to give you meaning in death. They want your death. Like, like a character dying has meaning and it's poetic and it's just and it's, they try to put this perverted sense of beauty onto death.
Yeah. In ancient times it was glorious, the glorious death. Like among the Greeks, the Romans, the glorious death, or even among the Vikings, the glorious death. You die that glorious death in battle. This might be taking things too far and if it is, tell me, but is this an extension of trying to pull worship away from God and almost almost worshiping death in a way like glorifying the concept of death?
I would say so. Yeah, you can definitely make some applications there that we are now glorifying and elevating the very thing that is going to consume us, swallow us. Death swallows us.
Yeah. So when God says I will swallow death, he is saying death tries to come and swallow you. I'm going to swallow death. Because it's the, I mean, other than God, I mean, it's the, it's the only other thing that is really inevitable. You know what I mean?
I don't want to say it's the second most powerful thing. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that it is inevitable in the sense that there's nothing I can do. There's no medicine, there's no trick, there's no, I can't defeat it. Just like we said in the previous episode, we are now in this corrupted union with death.
We are, we are not separated from it without Christ. Right. And it is, it is impossible for the human mind, I think, to separate, like, like for me to, like, I can't fathom eternity.
The more I try, the more frustrated I get. Yeah. Even though I was created for it.
That's right. And then Paul says again here, this is again, I'm quoting from First Corinthians 15, O death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory? The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
So there's hope. There's hope because Jesus has conquered the grave. Now, if you want to go a little bit further into this, and if we have time, we would love to talk a little bit longer about death and what this really means. Now death has, was not only confined to Adam and Eve, it spread to all men. Romans 5, 12, and thus death spread to all men because all sinned.
And I think that was the original question. That was the question on Friday is that I didn't eat that fruit. So why am I guilty of that sin?
Why am I not just guilty of my sins? Yeah, it feels like the teacher's taking away recess from everybody. That's a good way to say that. You know, when the teacher walks in and says, all right, everybody say, wait, wait, wait, wait, I didn't do anything.
I didn't do anything. So I was, I went to school with a kid named Christopher Thompson in first grade and he got ripped off trading Pokemon cards. His mom came up to the school and raised Cain and just, just made a big set. So Pokemon cards got banned at school.
Same situation in my school. Not Christopher Thompson, obviously, but same situation. Yeah. There was somebody who there was an unfair trade and that was like, okay, no Pokemon cards for anybody anymore. I guess it was really an Adam syndrome. It's not a Christopher Thompson syndrome, but still, yeah, everybody's got to, everybody's got to pay for it. You know, Adam sinned. What does it have to do with me? So we have to go back and then ask ourselves about this verse. What does it mean when it says, because all sinned.
We're trying to understand the mechanics of this because all sinned. In the Greek, it's not just one word for because it's actually two words and it's really a prepositional phrase. F ho.
F ho. Okay. It's two different words together. Give us the word because. And so because all sinned, what does that mean? So there have been many views, six different views to be exact, but really three of them are very pertinent to us. The first one is a, is known as a copy view.
Some people call it the imitation view. And according to this view, because all sinned is simply because all sinned after the example of Adam. So he said the pattern that we have followed.
We follow when we come into this world. Okay. So are we guilty upon birth in the, in the copy view?
No. It's the first time you commit a sin. Right.
You're copying Adam. But it's inevitable that you'll commit a sin. It's not necessarily inevitable. Okay. It just happens, but it's not necessarily inevitable. Gotcha. You have a choice.
You are born neutral. Okay. So we would not, we would not subscribe to the copy view. There is no sin nature in this view. Right.
Okay. That's, we get that from Pelagius. Pelagius was a British monk, really more specifically coming from Ireland in the fifth century. He lived about the same time as Augustine of Hippo because later on Augustine is going to, to, to oppose Pelagius for this view.
Where you are born neutral and you choose to sin. Okay. I did say that he was a monk, right? Yeah. Which means more than likely he didn't have any children. Right.
So I know where you're going with this. What does that, what does that mean? That means he wasn't around little toddlers, right?
Right. He don't know how little toddlers like that. How do they act when they have 20 toys and another toddler walks into the room? I literally, I literally had to give, give some scolding this morning over that exact same thing.
And it wasn't the one that you would think. You don't have to be around kids for very long to understand the concept of a sin nature. Yeah. We have my two kids that both are obsessed with toy stories. They each have a Woody. So we had, they were fighting over both of them.
So we had to put our names on it. So Holden had Gavin's and Gavin who does, does not even care about it at all. Saw that cause Holden's is missing a finger.
Holden's Woody has four fingers. So he was like, he saw, Oh, Holden's got mine. I want it.
I want it. Started screaming, crying. And I was like, okay, Holden, give it to him. He went away.
I was like, that was yours, but you didn't want it until you saw Holden with it. That was why. And you're right. He did not have to be taught that. I didn't teach him to do that.
Oh yeah. But that's what Pelagius was saying that we are copying Adam, but listen, the kids, good parents, godly parents sharing selfless parents, and yet their kids turn out to be so selfish at that age. All of a sudden out of nowhere, they're not copying Adam. They're not even copying their parents. They are simply reflecting something more that is happening inside of us.
That's right. It's in them. So let's just discard the copy view. The other two views are the corporate view and the corrupted view. I don't know if we have time to talk about that. Maybe next week, next show.
We can do it tomorrow, but do you want to give us just the cliff notes of each one? Of course. Corporate view is that because all sinned means that we were in Adam and since Adam sinned and we were in him, we also sinned. Corporate view, inclusion view.
That's what it means. We were included in Adam. And the third view is corrupted view because all sinned as in we inherited the sinful nature of Adam. The corrupted nature of Adam.
Another word for that is the infected view. Okay. That's the one I think makes most sense to me.
Would you subscribe to both of them? Corporate and corrupted? Yeah, the first one is right out. Copy view. Holy hand grenade style.
It's right out. But corrupted or corporate and corrupted, I would say together help us understand originals. I love it.
I love it. I think we're starting a little unintended mini series here on original sin. People are into this. People are really, because it's something that affects every single person.
It's helpful to actually put it in terms that make sense. I mean, we can say all day long that we have a sin nature. We're guilty because Adam sinned. But when we really get into the why, that helps us understand why we need Jesus.
I mean, everything is connected and points back to the cross. 100%. So good, guys. Make sure you join us tomorrow. Same time, same station.
We're going to dig a little deeper into this concept of original sin and these two views that we introduced today. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us on iTunes by subscribing to the show. And you can always support us financially at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
John, what are we close with today? Definitely want to let you know about our exclusive content over on Pray.com. Most importantly, and really most relevant right now is Dr. Shah's new series, Discerning Doctrine. Every single week we release videos, a video a week on Christian doctrine, things to kind of help you navigate the Christian life the correct way. You know, we think that as long as we believe in God, everything should be all good. Now there's a correct way and there's an incorrect way to view our Christian life.
So make sure you check out Discerning Doctrine on Pray.com. We just passed 3000 subscribers and followers. So we're celebrating that, but we also want to see that number keep going up because the more that number goes up, it's the more people are being reached with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So thank you to those of you who followed and those of you who have given on Pray.com. Amen. Enjoy the conversation tomorrow.
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