CGR THURSDAY 062223 Part Three Dr Robert Whaples

Hi, this is Pastor Greg and you're listening to Chosen Generation Radio. Get more at chosengenerationradio.com.

That's Chosen Generation Radio, where no topic is off limits and everything filtered through biblical glasses. My passion is the fight for freedom. My father fought for World War II defending our country. Today we are no longer fighting with guns. Instead, we are fighting an ideological battle for control of our country by contributing to causes that support your constitutional rights.

I am Patriot Mobile. Sexual predators and comprehensive sex education both break down inhibitions. That's what they start with. They also gain trust with the child and then slowly start to get them towards sexual activity.

Everything goes. You are teaching children adult child sex, you're teaching transgender issues, and children are moldable and influenced by that. They said, okay, now we need you and your team to be able to explain what homosexuality is to a four-year-old student. To introduce this kind of material at that age, frankly, it's child abuse. We're going to teach our children that it's okay for any two children of any age of any sex to have sexual intercourse with each other as long as two components are present. One's using a condom and they both give consent.

Did I hear that correctly? It's not a neutral venue. There's no such thing. The schools are doing your job. They are discipling your children, but they're not discipling them in the faith of Jesus Christ. It's only the exceptional child that even survives that system. Most do not survive.

Most have not survived. They believe that children are sexual from birth and that they deserve and have the right to be sexually active and to seek sexual pleasure. And if anyone is stopping them from that, then you are judging and oppressing them. Even kindergarten now, they're wanting to teach them more and more perverse information and acts and put that into the children's minds. And once that poison is in the child's mind, it doesn't leave. They'll always remember what they learned. And it's by design, it's orchestrated.

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These statements have not been evaluated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and if your products do not treat, reduce, cure, or prevent disease. Welcome to Chosen Generation with your host, Pastor Greg Young. But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people that you should shoe forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light which in time past were not a people but are now the people of God which had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. And now, Chosen Generation, where no topic is off limits and everything is filtered through biblical glasses. And now, here's your host, Pastor Greg. And welcome back to Chosen Generation Radio, where no topic is off limits and everything filtered through biblical glasses, hour number three. Don't forget, bottom of the hour, we start our India service. I'll be on Skype to India, where we do a service every Thursday.

And so you'll get the first half hour of it and then you'll have to follow me over to social media. We're at Chosen Generation Radio Show on Facebook and also in Peach Democrats and a couple of other pages. And then you can also follow me at CloutHub at at Pastor Greg CGR, at Pastor Greg CGR, and at Pastor Greg CGR.

Also over on Getter at Pastor Greg CGR. And we have been seeing just an incredible outpouring. We're over 850 churches now in Punjab, India that we're overseeing 41 freshwater wells and we just launched our fourth sewing school for widows. So we have four sewing schools for widows that we're doing as well as our orphanage and our Bible school. And we're outreaching into areas that have never heard the gospel before and seeing people give their lives to Christ. So it's really quite an amazing thing.

Encourage you to stay tuned and watch that. I'm very, very pleased to welcome my next guest to the program. He is a professor at Wake Forest. And we want to get into a conversation. He's a senior fellow at the Independent Institute as well, co-editor and managing editor of the Independent Review and professor of economics at Wake Forest University.

Is Social Justice Just is his new book. I want to welcome Dr. Robert Waples to the program. Dr. Waples, welcome. Good to have you with me. Thanks so much for being here.

Thank you for having me on. Well, so this is a really interesting topic. Over the course of the years, we've talked a little bit about this on the program.

One of my guests was a gentleman named Elgin Hushbeck who wrote a book about this and came from the opinion that when you add an adjective to the idea of justice, that you begin to modify whether or not you actually have justice or not. Talk to me about your perspective with regards to how do you see this concept of social justice melding in. And then maybe we can get into a little bit of the conversation of how CRT has kind of become a part of that whole concept, reparations, all of those things. So the book is a collection by several authors. I wrote one of the chapters.

I also wrote the introduction and edited it. And I think a constant theme in the book is that if we are going to take the idea of social justice at face value, we need to first think about what does justice mean, right? And so we go back to the ancient definition and definition that was used by Aristotle, used by Aquinas in the middle age, that justice is the constant and perpetual will to render to each what is due to him.

Okay. So what happens when you put the word social in front of that, which is really about individuals treating each other fairly and justly. So there it's got to then deal with, well, the rules of the game. Are they fair so that there's not some individual who's just treated unfairly? And so the big worry of the authors of the book is that so many people who use the word social in front of social justice are really just in it for themselves.

They're what economists call rent seekers. And we're trying to do some stuff to get some money our way to tweak the government, to tweak the culture so that we can line our own pockets. And you see that with social justice advocates like Ibram Kendi, whose book, How to be an Antiracist was at the top of the bestseller list a year or two ago. And one of the chapters directly responds to that chapter that I wrote. But if you're going to do social justice, right, you start with justice and then you think, okay, so what are the rules of the game going to be? They have to be rules that recognize each individual as a unique, unrepeatable person worthy of dignity, endowed with ability to direct his or her own life without harming other people, but also noble enough to care deeply about the well-being of others. In my introduction, I start with this line, and I repeat it in my second chapter, that we all hunger to live in a just world. And we work constantly in ways great and small, to promote justice. And so justice, really, social justice, a bottom up thing where we all treat each other justly. And then it flowers from there, I think is an overriding opinion of the authors in this book.

Interesting. You know, you hit on a very important topic to me, and that is value, right? Because one of the things that comes into play here is the idea of equality versus equity.

You know, right? Nowadays people try to act as though those are synonyms with each other. They simply are not. Equal outcomes in most, almost all situations, are not equitable, right? If I've got, I don't know, my football team going up against Georgia, they play by the rules, my team's probably going to get crushed by them.

But seeing in today's culture, Dr. Wabels, that's not just, that's not fair. Your team, you know, should be given, and I'm curious, this is just, we're just kind of flying by the seat of our pants here, okay? But I'm curious because, you know, betting has become a big thing now in all of this, right? They've legalized gambling, there's gambling legalized in football, basketball, but I mean, you know, Pete Rose should be suing the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame right now, right? Because it's like, give me a break, guys, seriously?

And who says that these guys aren't already doing that? And now, I mean, you got a professional football team that's housed in Vegas, give me a break. Anyway, but I was thinking about, you know, handicaps is what made my, is what triggered my thought, right? So Wake Forest goes against Georgia, well, so they show up, and they should be given four touchdowns, right? You know, right? Just start out, it's 28-0, Wake Forest is winning, now let's see how Georgia does with that equation. And all teams would end the season at 500.

Very interesting. It'd be so pointless. And isn't that, I'm so sorry, but isn't that what they're doing in football, right?

They're all talking about, you know, well, look at, you know, look at, you know, so-and-so last season, they were two and 14, and now this year, they're the Super Bowl champion, and they celebrate the idea that, you know, and we kind of get excited about underdogs, but by the same token, by the same token is the system. If you do, then, you know, the whole system gets undermined. So I occasionally will say to my students, hey, you know, here's the exams back, and, you know, some students just got higher grades than others, so why don't we just like, those, everybody got an A, let's take 10 points from them, and give them to the people who got like Ds. Does that sound fair?

That'll even things, it'll make things more, and everybody's against that idea. Not just the students who got the As, but the students at the bottom. They go, that's unfair. They didn't just randomly get the higher grade. Yeah, maybe they were born with, you know, more smarts or whatever, but they also had to put in a really good effort.

And the students who didn't do so well realized usually that, you know, I should have studied harder. And so, you know, there are obviously bounds past which you can push these ideas. And we don't want to, you know, we don't want to do it that way. We don't really want to involve coercion in making the world just. Coercion, forcing people, well, you need coercion to stop people from being unjust, like if somebody's Raja, then that person's got to compensate you. Oh, well, not anymore now.

Not anymore. Now, let's, let's, let's be right, you know, comes merely are different because people are playing by the rules of the game, then forcing us to rearrange them. No, that's not how it's supposed to work out. What we need to do is as one of the authors is distinguish between differences, you know, especially thinking about economic differences that are due to luck, deliberate choices people are entitled to make, and then deliberate choices that they're not entitled to make.

Focus on the third category. If there are differences in outcomes from deliberate choices you made that you are not entitled to make, let's get rid of those. So the status quo is not perfect.

There are some people who work the system, make deliberate choices, and then get things they're not entitled to make, like crony capitalists, like bailouts of big corporations, that kind of stuff wrong, can't do that. We're okay with a certain degree of luck. We don't want to push it past a certain point, because then it just seems like the whole world's a casino. No, but we realize that, you know, luck is part of the world.

And if you're really on top of things, you make your own luck in some sense. So we don't want to slow it's hard work, right? It's it's about hard. It's about I mean, and and I so so bringing this into the equation, because I think it's a part of the conversation. You know, it we've gotten to a place where everything because we're a couple of white guys.

So the immediate assumption is, is right now is because we're a couple of white guys we we you know, we we started out with a with an upper hand. But should your parents or my parents be penalized? Because they weren't my my my immigration is Italian. Okay, my great great grandfather came over here as an indentured servant in Nevada, and worked in the mines in Eureka, Nevada, and and ultimately ended up buying a ranch and and and and having some success, and then helped my grandfather to have some success. On the other side on my dad's side, my my grandmother, they can trace their heritage all the way back to the Mayflower. So you know, and they fought in the in the in the Revolutionary War, and then obviously would have been they were in the north.

So they would have fought on the side of freeing the slaves in in in the in the southern conflict, the North South conflict that took place. All of that being said, they worked hard to try to create opportunities for their children. You've worked hard to create opportunities.

You mentioned, you know that you've got kids, you you worked hard to create opportunities for your kids. Should you be penalized for that? Yeah. And so there's the element of luck, right? I was lucky enough to be born the son of Jean and Marlene labels. I had wonderful parents. Okay, my dad just passed away. My mom's still with it.

But very lucky, not everybody else is. But what we want to do is encourage everybody to be really good parents. And so if if then, you know, we kind of take that away from people, it's not gonna work. If we turn over to the the raising of children to strangers and to the state, but you know, everything falls apart. We know that that's how it happens.

So I am totally with you on that. My wife's mother was a slave. She was carted off by Stalin's forces.

They were Polish, put in a work camp above the Arctic Circle during World War Two, right. And so when my wife hears about reparations, she's like, Okay, what about me? No, I'm not gonna play the victim card. No, that's what we need to what we need to do is realize that we're all in this together. There is a dignity in every single human being that's there because God created us. That's what gives us our equality is equality as moral worth in the eyes of God. Well, that's so much more important and powerful than mere material things. And what we've done is we've set up an economic system that rewards people for working hard for trying hard.

It has the tide has lifted all boats. I wrote an article last year where I calculated where the poorest 5% of Americans fall in the income distribution. Okay, so the poorest 5% of Americans are by definition at the fifth percentile among Americans, but in the entire world, they're at the 68th percentile. And what I did in my article was then think about, okay, where does their standard of living put them among all human beings who have ever lived?

117 billion or so of us going back to who knows, right? Right. And so people used to be incredibly, incredibly poor.

Yeah. And so the poorest 5% of Americans would fall at the 95th percentile among all human beings who've ever lived. That's the system that we've set up a market system that works very, very well at providing us with material things. And so why don't we just stop worrying so much about all those material things, we got plenty of them, and focus more on the spiritual things that are so much more eternally valuable. And why should we apologize for having created nation as an example of what has been awesome example of what using countries in the world, they've gone, hey, that's the way to do it. I want to bring this in really quick, but I'm glad you bring in the moral aspect of it because I think it's important. Steve Bannon gave a speech in like 2015, 2014, where he talked about moral capitalism. And he vilified the idea of a capitalism without moral values, that capitalism without morality becomes greed, it becomes harmful, it becomes destructive. And so it has to have an underpinning of morality, as does America, as does the world.

And I'm so glad that you brought the equation of God in because when you look out at the other landscapes where God is removed, you see how ugly it can get. The functioning of just in totally materialistic terms, the functioning of an economy requires people to not be fraudulent, not use force, all that kind of stuff. The less people believe in God, the more likely we are to have people just trying to rip each other off wholesale.

And countries where people do not trust each other, where they don't respect their dignity as human beings, cannot have this flourishing economy. So for purely utilitarian reason, having God in the equation is good, but of course we are not purely utilitarian. We care far more about our mortal souls than how big our paycheck is, I hope. And so even if God didn't pay off, we would still worship him. Well, I've heard the argument that, look, let's say that you're a gambling person and you're gambling on the future. And so if you believe there's a God and you gamble on Jesus and on those principles and you live that out, and at the end of the day there is, and there's a heaven, and since I died three times and took a couple of trips up there, I can tell you that it's real.

But let's say that you're going, yeah, but I don't know if I want... But as a culture, as a society, I mean, they've rewritten the Constantine narrative, but the reality is that Constantine looked at the Christians who were being persecuted and said, wait, hold on a minute. Their society is cleaner. It's more productive.

It's healthier. They're the only reason that we still have a Rome. If it wasn't for them, the whole thing would have already imploded.

Maybe we need to look at what they're doing and adopt what they're doing as a national policy. And so they did. And to this day, it goes even beyond that. The material benefits from being a religious person are gigantic.

Okay. And lucky, lucky for us, of course, the spiritual benefits are what we ultimately care about, and they're infinite. But there's studies done, and I wrote an article on this a couple of years ago, where they look at how healthy people are, how long they live. There was a study of nurses. They saw who's going to church regularly, who's not, and they kind of see the baseline. And the ones who went to church more often, they lived longer.

They were healthier. You're happier as well. I mean, there's these whole cottage industry of studies on self-reported well-being, scale of zero to ten, all that kind of stuff. Holding everything else constant, people who go to church more often are happier than other people. What's the secret?

What's the magic sauce? And so people have looked into that. And it has to do partly with just the mindset that you develop. You know that there's this higher purpose in life. And it also has to do, these studies seem to indicate, with your social interactions with people at church. It gives you more friends. One study looked at kind of non-church friends versus church friends. So you're outgoing and you do all these volunteer activities, and you have friends or whatever. Church friends are what make you happier.

The other friends, not nearly as much. And so it's very nice that I think God maybe put things together that way, that if we did follow the plan that He set out for us, we would be happy here on earth and then be ready for eternity. Darrell Bock Well, you know, even in your darkest moments, whether it's the fear of God that causes you to say, okay, you know what, I'm not going to cross certain lines, or whether it's the love of God that draws you back in to recognize that in the midst of whatever you're going through, there's still good that God is spinning off of that.

And ultimately, He has good intentions for you. It's how you perceive that and faith. And the significant importance then, that faith creates and builds in us, both the hope of the substance of things, perhaps to come, but the ultimate hope that we have in what we cannot yet see.

David Eagleman Yeah. Now, you know, you come from the perspective having died three times. I come from the perspective of being a former atheist. And I was baptized as an adult. And that was the most powerful experience of my life. I felt like a light was shining down from heaven on me. I felt like a new person.

Just talking about it kind of makes my hair stand out again. So I love it. That faith is a gift. Yeah, it's a grace from God. But it's a gift that He's offering to everyone.

Darrell Bock Yes. Yes, absolutely. One of the things, and we're about to do a service in any, but one of the things when I do the ultimate invitation, and then I'm leading them in praying for Christ, is the reciting of the Declaration of Galatians 2 20. I am crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. It encapsulates that the whole experience, right?

You know, the old person dies. Christ exchanges that old nature for a new nature. We are now new. And now Christ is in us. And He gives us ultimate value and ultimate worth. And then in order for us to be able to hang on to all of that, He doesn't say, Well, try, you know, try and believe. He says, No, I'm going to give you my faith. I'm going to give that to you as a gift and put it in you so that you have the ability to believe that it's real. Yeah.

And there's that one passage in one of the Gospels where the guy says, I do believe help my unbelief. Amen. Amen. Oh, so what is social justice? I was thinking, you know, before I got on, you were talking about what you're doing in India. That sounds like social justice to me, right? Helping your neighbors, helping, especially the neediest of people setting up programs where people can help themselves, not doing it because you were forced to, right?

Because the government took your money away and spent it inefficiently on doing that. But doing it directly out of the goodness of you're going to get rewarded for paying your taxes. Well, I guess there will be a little bit, but you're going to get rewarded for doing this stuff directly yourself. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Amen. Absolutely. Dr. Wibbles, thank you so much for being with me today.

I greatly appreciate it. Is social justice just? That's the name of the book.

Is social justice just? I assume you can get it in Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever. The best place to go is to the website of the Independent Institute, which is the publisher of the book. So it's just independent.org. And you'll see everything, all the great things. Boy, that's just, that's tough.

I don't know if we have the hard one right there. Independent.org, you'll see other books that we publish. Excellent. Independent.org, is social justice just? And while you're there, as Dr. Wibbles suggested, peruse the catalog and see if there isn't anything else there that you might find of interest to you.

Independent.org. Perfect. Excellent. All right. Dr. Wibbles, thanks so much for being here.

I greatly appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. All right, we're going to take a little break. We'll be right back.

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