The New Season, Gisele Bundchen, Cassidy Hutchinson

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audible.com slash wonderypod Good morning. I'm Jane Pauley, and this is Sunday Morning. The events of January 6th, 2021, and the violent assault on our nation's capital, a pivotal moment in American history. More than 1,100 people have been charged with crimes in connection with that day.

600 have been convicted and sentenced. But it's the fate of one man, former President Donald Trump, and the role he might have played in trying to overturn the 2020 election that could well determine where our country goes from here. A trial for Mr. Trump could take place as soon as March. And when and if that trial takes place, a key witness for the prosecution may be former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson. This morning, she'll tell her story to our Tracey Smith. We were watching the Capitol building get defaced over a lie.

Cassidy Hutchinson stunned the political world with her testimony about January 6th, and then she vanished. You couldn't go back to your apartment? I could not go back to my apartment. I ended up moving down to Atlanta for several months.

Part of it is for security. Now she's back, and she's got a lot to say. Cassidy Hutchinson, ahead on Sunday morning. You can't talk about early 80s music without talking about the talking heads. And this morning, they're talking again with Tony DeCopel.

You may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife I saw myself and I thought, who is that guy? With the re-release of Talking Heads, storied concert film, we'll all soon get a crack at that question. It's our legacy, and this is our victory lap. It's the old neighborhood.

A reunion decades in the making, later on Sunday morning. She's been front and center as a model and cover girl for years now. But as Lee Cowan will tell us, there's a lot more to Gisele Bundchen than meets the eye.

Gisele Bundchen is one of the highest-paid supermodels ever. But she's also super private, or at least she tries to be. That's never fun when people are speculating about your life, and that's no fun. But it is what it is, right? I can control that. I can only control how I react to it.

How she's reacting and where she goes to escape. This is a bit of a sanctuary for you, is it? Look at it. Coming up on Sunday morning. On this first weekend of autumn, it's official, the new season is underway. Seth Doan goes channel surfing to sample what's new on TV in other parts of the world. Leslie Stahl will be putting Consumer Reports to the test. Plus, a story from Steve Hartman and Josh Seftel and his mom are in the forecast.

On this Sunday morning for the 24th of September, 2023. We'll be right back. You know exactly what you're going through.

They're here to answer any questions, or just listen to you vent. From getting engaged to getting married, Zola is here for all the days along the way. Start planning at Zola.com.

That's Z-O-L-A dot com. Every big moment starts with a big dream. But what happens when that big dream turns out to be a big flop? From Wondery and Atwill Media, I'm Misha Brown, and this is The Big Flop. Every week, comedians join me to chronicle the biggest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time, like Quibi. It's kind of like when you give yourself your own nickname and you try to, like, get other people to do it. And the 2019 movie adaptation of Cats.

Like, if I'm watching the dancing and I'm noticing the feet aren't touching the ground, there's something wrong with the movie. Find out what happens when massive hype turns into major fiasco. Enjoy The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad free on Wondery Plus.

Get started with your free trial at Wondery dot com slash plus. As you probably recall, a former Trump White House aide, Cassidy Hutchinson, became front page news with her damning testimony before the House committee investigating the events of January 6th. She also became a target and largely vanished from public view. Until now, she's talking with our Tracey Smith. So you were in hiding, you are in hiding? Were slash are slash coming out of hiding. For Cassidy Hutchinson, the past two years haven't exactly been a day at the beach.

Like, I go out in limited capacities, but, you know, part of it is for security. She's basically been off the radar since that day last summer when she found herself in the eye of a political hurricane. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. Only one witness and she is potentially a blockbuster, Cassidy Hutchinson. In June 2022, Hutchinson, then 26, and a former senior adviser to Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows, testified before the January 6th committee and she didn't hold back. As an American, I was disgusted.

Her position as an aide who worked only steps from the Oval Office seemed to make it all the more powerful. We were watching the Capitol building get defaced over a lie. But reports of security threats afterward drove her into hiding. So my life changed in the way that I was living my life for a while. You couldn't go back to your apartment? I could not go back to my apartment. I ended up moving down to Atlanta for several months. They didn't even think it was safe for you to stay in D.C.? No.

Such a thing would have been unthinkable only a few months earlier. Hutchinson was a Trump loyalist from New Jersey who'd worked her way up from a White House internship to a spot as one of the higher ranking aides in the West Wing with access to the chief of staff and often the president himself. I was the conduit to the White House chief of staff. Pretty much to get to him you had to go through me in some capacity. Did people trust you?

I would think so. When I worked there, people did trust me. But the events of January 6th left Hutchinson shocked and disillusioned. In the final days of the administration, she was fired.

But as a former White House insider, she was subpoenaed by the January 6th committee and she started talking in a series of taped depositions. I felt torn a lot of the time because I knew what I knew and I wanted to come forward with what I knew. But at the same time I didn't want to feel like I was betraying them and I didn't want to feel like I was betraying my colleagues. As Hutchinson writes in a new book, published by Simon & Schuster, which like CBS is owned by Paramount Global, her first attorney was paid by a Trump PAC and she says she was advised that the less she remembered, the better. You're kind of caught here.

You're starting to have this moral dilemma. I mean, you looked over the transcripts and you counted the number of times that you said I don't know, I don't recall. I mean, you said I don't know and I don't recall more than 100 times. Yes, in the final transcripts it was written with I don't knows and I don't recalls, which was information that I very clearly recalled. So as she struggled with the thought of betraying her coworkers, Hutchinson started Googling another landmark D.C. hearing, Watergate, and found Alexander Butterfield, the former Nixon aide who revealed the existence of the White House taping system and helped bring down a president. Mr. Butterfield, all of the president's conversations and the offices mentioned and on the telephones mentioned were recorded as far as you know.

That's correct. Butterfield's story became her beacon of hope and the Bob Woodward book about him, The Last of the President's Men, became her Bible. She usually keeps her well-worn copy close at hand. And he really was the source of strength for me and gave me the perspective that not only that I could do this, but that there was life on the other side of it. And so armed with a newfound conviction and new attorneys, she headed up to Capitol Hill and into history. Did you want to back out at any point? Oh, yes. I almost ran out of there's the little hold room outside the committee room that we were about to walk in. And I almost started. Even then, that close to it, you wanted to run away. I heard the door click open and I turned around and I looked at my attorney and said, I can't do this. And I started to walk and he gently pushed my shoulders and he said, you can do this. And then we walked out.

When I returned to the White House. Among the more explosive moments, a story she says she'd heard from the White House Deputy Chief of Staff, Tony Ornato, about a January 6th incident with Secret Service agent Bobby Engel in the presidential limousine, nicknamed The Beast, where the President was said to have insisted on being taken to Capitol Hill to join his supporters. The President reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel.

Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel. And when Mr. Ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles. Both of these men say they don't remember this conversation happening. How can you explain that? I know what I recall.

In this particular instance, I can't climb inside the minds of Tony Ornato and Bobby Engel. Maybe they truly don't recall this happening. But for me, I stand by what I testified to in that incidence and in any other incident that had been disputed. These are Banana Republic indictments.

These are third world indictments. In an interview last week, President Trump himself weighed in, disputing her account. Who wouldn't dispute it? She's the craziest account I've ever heard. You mean that I was in the Beast and she said I was in the Beast and the Secret Service didn't win. So I took a guy who was like a black belt in karate and grabbed his neck and tried to choke her.

How ridiculous. You admit in the book, you've admitted here that you told less than the truth, that you lied. Why should we believe you now? Because what would I have to gain by coming forward? It would have been easier for me to continue being complicit and to stay in the comfortable zone of, I had some sense of security, a semblance of security. I knew people that I could easily reach out to for jobs. I had friends. Have you talked to either Tony or Bobby since?

I have not. I've not talked to many people in the Trump world since the day of my testimony. Hutchinson's book is full of anecdotes about her time in Trump world, including a detailed account of Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani groping her. Giuliani's team calls it a disgusting lie, but Hutchinson stands by her story, as does her publisher. She was also among the witnesses who testified for the federal grand jury in Washington and the grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia. It's not clear how much impact her testimony had on the subsequent indictments of the president and his associates, but there was someone watching it all with special interest.

The man who helped inspire Hutchinson to come forward, Alexander Butterfield, is now 97 and living in Southern California. And Haldeman was a pal of mine. And she's been able to thank him in person. Now we're lifelong friends.

Well, more than friends we are. Cassidy Hutchinson says that while her life and her heroes have changed, she's still a Republican. Are you backing someone yet in the 2024 election? For starters, I would like to make clear, I would not back the former president of the United States. He is dangerous for the country.

He is willing and has showed time and time again willingness to proliferate lies and to vulnerable American people so he could stay in power. To me, that is the most un-American thing that you can do. I want to begin by thanking Ms. Hutchinson for her testimony today.

We are all in her debt. Alex Butterfield said he'd do it all over again. Would you? I would.

I don't think I would really change anything. I got to where I needed to be and I'm proud of the work the committee did, too. And I'm also very grateful that they were willing to listen and that America was willing to listen, too. We'll spend some $14 trillion on consumer goods this year, which means deciding what to buy is no small concern. Leslie Stahl of 60 Minutes visits the folks who quite literally put the saying, buyer beware, to the test. There's any number of websites filled with product reviews and recommendations, but really, which ones can you trust? If experience is any test of credibility, Consumer Reports, with its website and magazine, has been testing stuff longer than anyone. This is the first cover ever? That is the very first issue of Consumer Reports, 1936. And the cover story is about milk.

Marta Teado is the president and CEO of Consumer Reports. Milk. And if you recall, there's grade A and grade B. And at the time, Consumer Reports asked, well, what's the difference? And there is no difference. You just pay more. What? But it's exactly the same.

In 1936, they found the higher price for grade A wasn't justified. CR, as it's known, has been surprising and sometimes outraging consumers for 87 years, testing more than 2,000 products for safety and effectiveness annually. How many people work for Consumer Reports? There are a number of 600 testers, journalists, scientists, investigators that really pursue the mission.

We have 60 labs. We test. We have engineers. We do the research, and no one does what we do in a nonprofit organization. This is our impact test.

Most of their work is done in labs like this at CR's headquarters in Yonkers, New York. For example, dropping bike helmets to see which ones survive a crash and which ones don't. Oh, wow. As you can see, part of this ticked off.

That means that the helmet is not safe. And look at this test. They actually have mosquito sting volunteers to see which repellents work. They test refrigerators to see how cold they are.

And toilets will leave it there. CR's annual testing budget runs well over $30 million, funded mostly by 6 million members who pay $30 to $59 a year to subscribe to the magazine or website. CR accepts no freebies from manufacturers.

They buy every product they evaluate to avoid any conflict of interest. These have been washed for two hours already. Oh, you're kidding. Lee Druckenmiller is Mr. Dishwasher, who tests dozens of the machines with his own impossible-to-clean, swirly, gunky sauce. They're cleaner than before, but as you can see, you wouldn't necessarily want to eat off them.

No. He doesn't expect any of the dishwashers to clean perfectly. The test measures which ones scrub the best. This is a sock tester. This is just one of many contraptions they've invented. This one was used in the 1940s to test the durability of socks.

This gizmo, with its rubber feet, was created more recently to evaluate exercise treadmills. It's actually funny. Without driving the CR staff to an early grave. We don't want to have staffers running for, you know, 25 hours on a treadmill. It's just a little too long. 25 hours. Yeah, so we run it for 25 hours.

We want to simulate about a half a year's use for a homeowner. To reach a younger audience, Consumer Reports now has channels on YouTube and TikTok, where Rich Handel, the guy with the Brooklyn accent, has become a star. Here are five things I would never do as a laundry expert. You have a huge following. How many people? Ten million views. A million likes. Something like that. And you go on and talk about washing machines.

Yeah, imagine that. Laundry. Laundry's popular. Because CR's testers, like Rich, are beholden to no company, they're unafraid of taking on a popular and lucrative product and say... Never use fabric softener. It's a waste of money.

Not only can it irritate sensitive skin, it can leave a layer of residue on your clothes and reduce the absorption of your towels. Save your money. And nowhere can you save more money than through CR's car reviews. This is the avoidance maneuver test. Jake Fisher, the head of auto testing, took us on a so-called hot lap around CR's six-mile long auto test track in Connecticut.

Eager to go the extra mile, so to speak, he took us out for a test of emergency handling. Brace yourself a little bit. I'm bracing. Whoa! Jake seemed to think my heart attack was a little over the top.

That wasn't too bad. No. We can go much faster.

Let's not. Certainly the car companies, they want to do well in our testing because they're going to sell more cars if it's a car that does well in our test. Consumer reports can make or break a new car or a new technology. I am going to approach that pedestrian as a distracted driver, which means I'm driving along. I'm not going to hit the brakes. Fisher told us that it's because of CR that many vehicles on the road today come with a crash avoidance system that kicks in when humans get distracted. Oh, wow. I did not touch the brakes.

I did not do anything. The car did that all for me. There is no regulation to say that cars need to have this technology. However, we have communicated to the car companies that it affects our score. And because of that, just a few years ago, around 30 percent of vehicles had a standard. Now it's around 85 percent because they're reacting to us.

And in some ways, we're almost a de facto regulator in that way. CR is so influential that when it comes to cars, even Elon Musk listens. When they launched the Tesla Model 3, talked for 45 minutes with Elon Musk at the time. He called you up himself.

Yeah. And the brakes didn't perform very well in our test. And we talked it through.

He understood what the problem was. And they actually did an over-the-air update within the week that actually improved brake performance. And consumers were going to have cars that soft better because of that. Consumer Reports spends over $2 million a year to purchase around 50 cars and trucks. And as Jen Stockberger, the operations manager at the test track, revealed, they buy all those vehicles in secret.

What does that even mean? Secret buyer. So we go in, much like every consumer would, and only at the very end of the transaction do the dealers know it's for Consumer Reports. I'm afraid you're blowing our cover. I know. We might be able to shop after this. You know, the dealers say, if I'd known you were from Consumer Reports, I would have treated you differently.

And I say, you think you want to treat all your customers this well? One of CR's most consequential investigations involved the Fisher-Price RocknPlay sleeper. Almost 100 infants have lost their lives. It was CR that revealed the link between the deaths and the RocknPlay.

The angle of the sleeper can allow infants to roll over or fall forward and suffocate. And it wasn't until we stepped in when the government inadvertently shared with us data that showed us that there was that link. The U.S. government knew the sleeper was problematic but left it on the market for years because, as CR discovered, there was a very anti-consumer clause in the Consumer Product Safety Act meant to protect a company's reputation. That says you have to ask the company for permission. What?

To disclose that kind of data. So we went public with the story and within days there was a national recall. Nearly 5 million infant sleepers were taken off the market. You're infuriating me.

I don't know what people... Leslie, it isn't over yet. Because the recall hasn't stopped the sale of used RocknPlay sleepers. There's a secondhand market. Think about the platforms online where you buy used products. Recalls are an imperfect way to get things off the market. They're not just investigators. They're advocates, watchdogs, change agents. Where will Consumer Reports go next? Here's our scoop. An investigation into the range claims of electric vehicles. Elon Musk, hold onto your hat. As one of the world's leading supermodels, Gisele Bundchen has never been shy about life in the limelight.

Or so you'd think. Lee Cowan caught up with her far from the beaten path. To see a sunset like this off the coast of Costa Rica takes a bit of effort.

The Nicoya Peninsula is not the easiest place to get to. It's home to a beautifully chaotic town called Santa Teresa, full of expats and world-class surfers. And once we arrived, we realized that being far from everything is exactly the point. Especially for the person who invited us here, Gisele Bundchen. This is a bit of a sanctuary for you, is it?

Look at it. This is her home away from home. And she says the perfect place for this supermodel to find renewal. I'm in a different place in my life. I'm able to choose more of what I want. I think before I was more surviving, and now I'm leaving, which is different.

Go get it! At 43, a mom of two, she still has one of the most sought-after looks in the business. That said, though, she's largely pulling back from the runway. Not because she had to, but because she says, it's now about time to show the world what all those designers and all those photographers missed. Her true self. You know, they weren't hiring Gisele, because they didn't even know me.

They just liked the way I looked, and they liked the way my body looked in clothes, I guess. I've done that. I understand that. And now I get to be me. And what me is, she says, is not the spotlight-loving personality you might think. I'm a cancer. I like my home. I'm a little crab.

I like my little home. You know, the crab, he has a little shell. He likes to go in her shell. You feel, that's me. But being an introvert, and then becoming a supermodel, seems like... That was a very challenging thing to do.

Entirely opposite. But I had her. Her. Her. She saved me. Her.

That's how she refers to the alluring chameleon who's been staring back at her from billboards and glossy magazine covers for decades. Why was that? Because it was so... For many reasons.

It was easier to deal with criticism that way as well. You know, we need to change the hair. It's not working. We need to change the makeup or the clothes. Everything is terrible. And then if you're young and you're thinking, I'm terrible.

I'm doing something wrong. But I can't imagine, though, you're 14 and people are talking about your eyes are too close or your nose is too big. I still have the same nose and the same eyes. But I grew into it, too. Right, but that's hard to hear at any age.

But if you're 13 or 14 years old... This is why the hair was very important for me. It was a veneer that did shield her from the often brutal side of the fashion business while also allowing her to flourish in it. Her long list of lucrative contracts made her one of the highest paid models in the world. Seems like she had a talent for the business side of show business, too.

But it was between the glitz and the glamour, the rare times when she was alone, that she sometimes wished she'd never been discovered at all. Everybody looked at me from the outside and thought I had it all, right? And I was feeling like I was living this life that was just like... Killing you.

Exactly. Drinking mocha frappuccinos for breakfast with three cigarettes, drinking a bottle of wine at night to calm down from all the coffee I was drinking. Not sleeping and traveling and working. I basically burned down my adrenal glands and my nervous system couldn't take it anymore. I felt bad about it. I felt like I couldn't tell people that because they looked at me like, she has everything.

They wouldn't even understand. So how did the anxiety start to present itself? I was in tunnels. I couldn't breathe. And then I started being in studios and I felt suffocated. I lived on the ninth floor and I had to go up the stairs because I was afraid I would be stuck on the elevator and I would be hyperventilating.

Because if you can't breathe, even when your windows are open, you feel like, I don't want to live like this. You know what I mean? Did you really think about jumping? Yeah, for like a second.

Because you're like, I can't. She didn't jump. Instead, she says she stopped everything in a single day. A complete detox.

No caffeine, no sugar, hardly any alcohol. And she began a new morning ritual. Meditation. You know, I wake up at five.

Five? Yeah, I like to wake up early. I like to greet the sun. You know, sometimes you're tired and you're like, okay, like I'm just going to sleep in a little bit.

But I feel the difference when I do that. A few years later, when she met NFL superstar Tom Brady, she says she was a different person, happy and healthy, and looking to focus less on modeling and more on motherhood. Do you miss the spotlight, though, a little? No. Not at all?

No, not at all. I was there to take my kids to school every day and make them breakfast every morning and just be with them and just, I mean, what a gift. They grow up so fast and it's like that, you know, like you wake up and you're like, what happened? She and Brady now share custody of those children. After 16 years together, their divorce was as public as their careers. Painful for everyone, she says.

And yet... I look into my life and I wouldn't have it any other way. I wouldn't have any other life. I wouldn't have done it if they say, can you change something in your life?

I wouldn't change absolutely anything. Not even getting divorced? I mean, it's not what I dreamed of and what I hoped for. You know, my parents have been married for 50 years and I really wanted that to happen. But I think you have to accept, you know, sometimes that the way you are in your twenties, it's, you know, sometimes you grow together, sometimes you grow apart. I mean, he's the father of my kids, you know, so I always wish him the best and I mean, I'm so grateful that he gave me wonderful children.

And I think, you know, when a door shuts, other doors open. One of those doors opened onto this blooming field of echinacea. Nature is my happy place. Anytime I'm in nature, I'm happy. This is the Gaia Herbs Farm, nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of western North Carolina. It's been organically growing any number of healthy herbs to be turned into supplements for nearly 40 years.

And for Bündchen, it's as much a brand as it is a lifestyle. That's how I treat my kids. You know, we use Edelberry syrup, which is a huge, amazing immune booster and my kids and I love it. Are your kids on board with all this? Are you kidding me? My kids have been taking it since they were born, you know?

They're like, mama, I want to eat this food. I'm like, well, if you can tell me what that is, then you can. She just signed on to be the wellness ambassador for Gaia Herbs. I feel like it's a combination of the journey I've been on. A role she says that's less about business and more about teaching what she calls the wisdom of plants. So there is different herbs that might have a bigger impact on your system than others, right? So you have to kind of like experiment, experiment it.

And this is what I've done. Like I've taken, I've been taking herbal remedies pretty much all my life. She grew up in a rural town in southern Brazil where her late grandmother had an herb garden of her own. Bündchen fondly remembers how what her grandmother plucked from it seemed to be able to cure almost any ailment. She was magical for me because she could fix anything. She could plant anything. She could make anything grow. She could heal anything. She was just amazing, right?

She was just like, she's amazing. Sorry. Well, you're doing her proud, that's for sure. Thank you.

I'm sorry. She was so special. It's emotional, she says, because after touring the world. Do you like that sweet baby? She's like, your life is good. She now realizes that her ultimate destination may have always been home. I'm a small town girl. You know, you can take this girl out of the small town, but not the small town out of the girl. As a model, Giselle Bündchen called herself a silent actress.

She hopes that silence, though, is now no more. I just think now is I'm allowing myself to come out as Giselle versus as her. I don't have to play a character. I can be me. And that's liberating.

He liked the water though. Oh, there you go. Oh, that's amazing. Give us a little refreshment. Steve Hartman this morning tags along on a journey to the past. Never mind the limousine, marching band and red carpet. What amazes 75-year-old Marvin Jones the most is that he's back at his old high school, period. Because when I left Brunswick High School in 1966, I said I would never return.

It was a different time. Schools across the South were desegregating, including Brunswick High in Lawrenceville, Virginia, where it fell to Marvin and these 14 other kids to take that first painful step. On the bus, the students would bring KKK flyers. And when I would come down the hall, they would close their nose and say, here comes the skunk. I felt as if I had leprosy.

Even decades later, those memories haunted. So to heal, Marvin decided to put pen to paper, writing letters to the very students who tormented him. What did you say in the letters?

I would tell what each person had done to me. Marvin wrote about 90 such letters to former classmates, pouring out his pain whether people wanted to hear it or not, and most didn't. But one of the letters he mailed struck a different tone, and that letter was very well received.

Where is he? The recipient was Paul Fleshed. Marvin says Paul was one of the few students who never bullied him or said an unkind word. Really touched me. Marvin wrote, There were many days that I wanted to scratch up a conversation with you and that I perceived you as one of the students I could have been friends with. Did you get a sense that he was trying to open a door?

Absolutely. And when you saw that, what did you think? I thought, well, I'm going to go through that door. Hey, buddy. Marvin and Paul became close friends. Good to see you.

Good to see you. And that friendship eventually led to this. We acknowledge their sacrifice. We celebrate their legacy. Earlier this month, Paul and other leaders in the community hosted a ceremony honoring the Brunswick 15. Those 15 brave children who were once treated like untouchables, now embraced with open arms. It means a lot. It means that we have overcome a lot. Marvin used to say he never had one good day at Brunswick High School. But almost 60 years later, looks like maybe he finally passed.

Well, how did I get here? It's the new season on Sunday morning. And here again is Jane Pauley. Once in a Lifetime was a big hit for the talking heads back in the 80s. All these years later, they're reuniting to celebrate a shining moment.

They're talking with CBS morning's Tony DeCopel. In 1983, a band whose cerebral lyrics and funky melodies helped define an era. Performed in L.A. before a packed house and some cameras. The film that followed, called Stop Making Sense, captured talking heads in all their kinetic glory. And through the eye of a talented young director named Jonathan Demme.

Recorded what would become the band's final tour. An experience the late Roger Ebert called life lived as a joyous high. And then 40 years later, the critic of New York Times called it nutty jubilation.

And I feel like both are right, you know? What's it like witnessing yourselves once again? Weren't we pretty?

What was that phrase? Nutty delicious? Nutty jubilation.

Nutty jubilation, yes. When I first saw the screening recently, which had been probably a couple of decades. And I saw myself and I thought, who is that guy? 40 years after that initial release, you may find yourself in a large theater. Because this classic concert film has been restored, remastered and once again shown on the big screen.

I mean, let's face it, man, this movie is hot. For Chris France, Tina Weymouth, Jerry Harrison and David Byrne, the re-release is a chance to get reacquainted. It's the old neighborhood. After decades of estrangement and also revisit a moment of shared success. What is the story being told in Stop Making Sense? It's the story of love.

It really is. It starts with one person, an individual alone in this world and then a community builds around it. The arc of the film mirrors the arc of the band itself. There's Byrne and then his two married college friends, Weymouth and France. I heard stories from Chris, oh yeah, that's mad Dave, you know.

He would do things, you know, performance art where you shave off half his beard vertically. The three met as students at the Rhode Island School of Design where Mad Dave and France had already formed a band. A cover band called the Artistics.

We both really enjoyed it. I could see that David had a gift as a front person. The name of this band is Talking Heads and the name of this song is Psycho Killer. They moved to New York. And I thought, wow, these guys are unique. Jerry Harrison made the band a foursome.

Run, run, run, run away. I bought into totally what they were doing and I just wanted to be the best partner in making that go forward. They spent the years that followed building an audience on MTV and perfecting their sound. By the time we got to stop making sense with the expanded lineup, we were really tearing the roof off.

And doing a lot of running. The music that we were doing had great groove and it just made me want to dance. Where are you coming up with this? The music usually inspires it, but it was improvised like in my loft. I have a little video camera or whatever and put on the music and see what I came up with. And I'd go, that one, that really works.

Let me try that. Let me try it in this song. This is an impossible question, but I'll ask it anyway.

How do you know it works? That's a really good question. All I can assume is that there's something intuitive that says that music and that movement belong together. And somehow together they say something greater than either of them apart. What is that relationship that people are seeing on stage?

We are obviously having a great time. We were a locked band. Call it peak talking heads, but it wouldn't last. I think a mystery at the center of Stop Making Sense. It's such a great tour. Why is it the last tour?

Well, that is a mystery. Talking heads had always taken breaks for side projects, most notably Chris France and Tina Wayman's band Tom Tom Club. But within a few years of the film, the band went on a break that never really ended. And in 1991, Byrne told the LA Times, you could say we've broken up or call it whatever you like. Yeah, we found out from a newspaper. Yeah, LA Times called us. It was a fact checker. And they wanted a comment. The relationship suffered from there. At one point you called, I think, David Byrne a vampire.

That's what they say. I don't remember that. You don't remember that?

No, I might have been in a bad mood. And while the band did perform one last time in 2002 when they were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I'd like to thank the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for giving this band a happy ending.

They had not appeared in public until the premiere of this restored concert film brought them together. It's natural to feel pride in the legacy and joy and the memories. But inevitably, you also ask yourself the question, would I do anything differently? Would you do anything differently, David? I think I could have been probably a more easygoing collaborator. But at the same time, that was kind of the way we were, the way I was.

And so it's not like, oh, I wish I could have changed that. I think that's just the way we were then. And it kind of had to happen that way. Do you feel like over the years you guys, in one way or another, hurt each other? Families do that. They don't just bite each other.

They take chunks out. But the beauty of it is, well, maybe you don't forget, but you forgive. And you're standing here beside me I love the passing of time celebrating Stop Making Sense, but also the music that we made together, which is always going to be greater than any of us individually. It is something for us to be proud of.

And I think we all agree on that. With the Hollywood actors and writers' strikes dragging on, the upcoming TV schedule is very much up in the air, which got us wondering, what's the rest of the world watching? Seth Doan takes us channel surfing. Turn on the TV in Korea, the production powerhouse of Asia, and you can find dance troupes battling each other. In Israel, it's a local take on Dancing with the Stars, while in South Africa, Shaka Elembe about the rise of Israel. King has been likened to an African Game of Thrones.

Welcome! And in the United Kingdom, the BBC period drama Call the Midwife still rules supreme after 12 seasons. In Italy, the show of the moment is Mare Flori, or The Sea Beyond. It's a steamy coming-of-age drama unfolding among young prisoners in Naples. We were on the same page as the show of the moment, with director Ivan Silvestrini, who credits the cast.

They had to somehow portray these characters and their inner feelings. And notably in their own dialect. Blended with the Italian language is Neapolitan, mainly spoken in Naples.

It's a familiar mix for one of the stars, Massimiliano Caiazzo. For me, it's simple to act in the Neapolitan language, and avoid the dialect. Because I was from here, and my emotions were more grounded. Nepal is a character. It's a fundamental character of the story. Producer Roberto Sessa of Pico Media says the sense of place grounds the story, too.

He's a star. While producer Maria Pia Amirati of RAI notes young people watching across platforms are driving the show's popularity. And I think that we speak in their language. International TV is where you should be paying attention these days as an American viewer.

Mike Hale is a TV critic for the New York Times. He says foreign television has been strong for some time, but now we're more aware of it. There are a lot of shows that we know from American TV that really were reboots from another country.

That's so true. Some of the most popular shows on American TV were actually based on shows from Britain. Do you want the doctor? For example, All in the Family. And then we'll have a little fun?

Come and knock on our door. Three's Company was also based on a British show. And The Office.

Put my stapler inside a jelly again. Hale says for Americans, it all changed about a decade ago. Netflix starts showing things with something. It starts showing things with subtitles and people watch. I have a feeling that the trend is going to be toward homogeneity in the sense that people want their shows to be able to be seen and sold all over the world. We don't make global shows. We make local shows and local films that we launch to a global audience.

Andrea is Netflix's chief content officer. She notes 70 percent of viewing on Netflix comes from members watching a title from a country other than their own. Is there a homogenization of the product because there's a Netflix style or expectation? I think the Netflix style or expectation is that you're getting a really specific, authentic version of that story.

So I think it's the opposite of that, actually. I think when you look at something like Squid Game, which a lot of people know, that was made in Korea by Koreans for the Korean audience and then it really spoke to people around the world and became the biggest TV show ever. Netflix is also seeing TV viewing drive travel trends. As did HBO Max. A trip to Sicily after White Lotus, anyone? As streaming operations invest billions, Paramount Plus, which like CBS is owned by Paramount Global, is eyeing 150 original foreign programs by 2025. Back in Naples, Mare Fori is benefiting from those audiences who are increasingly drawn to stories that take them far from home.

When you are telling a true story and you are realistic and you speak with your heart, then probably you can reach the world. Whatever the weather's like where you are this morning, to hear Josh Seftel's mom tell it, the outlook is mostly cloudy. Wait a minute.

I can't see what I look like because it's too little. Hello. Do you like watching the weather, the weather report?

I do. I do that the first thing in the morning, which is very interesting in Florida. Here's your forecast for the next few days. The heat is on. What's it like for you to go outside in this heat? Not fun. I put the garage door up and it's like something hit you. You're like walking into a wall of heat and humidity.

It's pretty uncomfortable. We also have malaria. What? Oh, you didn't hear about the malaria in Florida? Mosquito spraying trucks in Florida are ready to fight the bite after two more cases of malaria were reported in Sarasota County. There's a bad mosquito that got here. Is it one mosquito? No.

I guess there's more than one. How's it affecting your life, the weather? I don't like it. It's boring. I'm inside. I either read a book, look at TV, talk to somebody on the phone. I've gone to the movies a couple of times, which I normally wouldn't do. I saw Indiana Jones. Oh, how was it? It was okay.

I wouldn't tell you to rush. How do you feel about the current state of things with the weather? It's frightening. Wildfire smoke from Canada is once again making air quality unhealthful. Scientists warn July could become the Earth's hottest month in hundreds if not thousands of years. Fourteen million residents are under flash flood alerts.

Torrential downpours dumped at least eight inches of rain in the area. It's pretty scary that the climate in the world is changing. How do you feel about what the human race has done to the Earth? I'm not happy about it because the people that are in control are not ignorant people.

They're just, one, make money or be in power. But this is serious. This is destroying our planet. I mean, if I understand a little of the cause, can you imagine what the people that really know what they need to do and aren't doing it, and then now they're saying these effects, how they must feel?

I can't even imagine. Are you worried about the future of our planet? I'm worried for my children and my grandchildren. What advice do you have for the world right now?

You know, I usually have advice for everybody. I don't know what to tell people. I don't know what I can do to make it better. Do you have hope?

Yes. Like with a lot of things, you've got to take it like a day at a time. There's a lot we can't change anymore, but we certainly can help it from getting worse. This is kind of a depressing conversation. How can we end it on a positive note? Well, I'm going out for dinner tonight. Thank you for listening. Please join us when our trumpet sounds again next Sunday morning. You can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.