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So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Angie, the one you trust, to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com. This is Jane Pauley. Olivia Munn has done it all, and An activist, comedian, actor, and now cancer survivor.
She tells us all about it. and about her marriage to comedian John Mulaney. in this conversation with Sunday Morning's Tracy Smith.
So let's talk your friends and neighbors first. It's season two. Did you expect a season two? You know, we were the first show for Apple that they ever picked up before we aired.
So I knew there was a lot of love. for the show. I only signed on for one year. I was not expecting to come back for the second season and that was a big reason why I signed on for the show because I didn't have to make a big commitment because when you sign on for shows they want like six years of your life guaranteed. And I had just gone through so much with breast cancer and postpartum that I didn't think that I had the energy to do more because also I had made a decision.
Privately, I was never going to announce this, but I wasn't going to act anymore. I didn't want to be in front of the camera. Why is that? I just I I didn't want to be exposed anymore. I didn't want to put myself up for judgment or um like just any kind of conversation that you kind of inevitably have when you are back in front of the camera.
You know, even if it was really complimentary and really nice, I just felt. Like I just needed to to retreat. And it And I actually felt like this is what I need to do, and what I want to do. And I called my agents, and I said, This is my decision, and please don't put me up for anything or pitch me for anything. I really need to make this stance.
And um And then my agent called me and said, you know, look, legally I have to present to you. this offer and And it was just such a great offer. It was such a great show. And it was John Hamm and Jonathan Tropper and Apple and And they're like, you only have to sign on for one season. And Jonathan Tropper will get on the call with you and tell you what the characters.
story's going to be this year and what's going to happen and I was like, you know. I feel like I need to take this call. It just sounded too good to be true. There was something actually that's kind of like inside baseball, but My agent had to break it down to me about why this show was really special.
So she was like, You know, now if there's so many streamers and people are getting really Really, they're narrowing down how many shows they do. You know, back in the day, like with networks, they would do like 20 pilots and then they would whittle it down to like maybe 10, and it would just like, but there was. There was just so, it was so robust with, you know, with pilot season and all you could do as actors, but now. She was explaining to me that every streamer pretty much is doing like five pilots each. And for this season of pilots, there was only going to be five top pilots that everyone would be clamoring for.
and that your friends and neighbors was one of those five.
So then that kind of kicks up that thing in me as an actor where you're like, man, you want to do great work and you want to work with great people.
So I took the meeting with Jonathan Chopper and I was like, You know, I think I'm gonna do this.
So I had to have the call with John. And um and just tell him like I think I'm gonna do this. And he was so supportive. And then it was like maybe by like episode two or three, where Jonathan asked me to have lunch and then asked me to stay on. for another season.
I was like, this is uh it's not what I had you know, um, prepared for, but I asked him just to give me The time to get through the season, and then we had a lunch at the end of the season when we wrapped. And he kind of gave me the pitch again about what the next season would be. And if I would sign on for a few more seasons, and at that point I I knew I was going to do it because I just, it was so much fun. How did you make that shift from not wanting all those eyes on you to, oh, okay, I'm okay with this and this is fun?
Okay. There comes a point When Fulfilling like the thing in me that I've always wanted to do, just Came all the way up to the surface. You know, I've wanted to be an actor since I was so little. And it takes a lot of luck and preparation and hard work to get to a place Um where you get opportunities like this. And Just knowing that it was here again for me and it came so perfectly wrapped.
that I was like, you know, I j Like, I gotta give it a try. And, you know, the response from the audiences and critics about it was like so amazing. And I mean, I remember I was out. at a lunch in New York. And there was a table of college-aged kids.
And I heard, there was like 10 of them. And I heard one of the girls go, Oh my god, have you guys seen your friends and neighbors? And I was like. I was like, oh my gosh, like they're talking about it, and they were talking about how much they loved it, and they were talking about the plot line with my character, and I was like, I was like, it was just so exciting that it was like, you know, this younger generation, along with like, You know, basically every generation that I'd met, I'd be on the street and people from like, you know, like 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. It just was like everyone was like really loving the show.
And that made the fear I had About going in front of the camera again and being out there again, like really dissipate because it was such a. such a pleasant experience back in. And it's not always like that. No, but it was a warm embrace, it sounds like. Yeah, it was really nice.
Yeah. I want to talk more about the evolution to this point going through your career because this is kind of. your friends and neighbors is kind of what you've been aiming for all along and you've made some difficult choices along the way to get to this point. But before we talk about that, I want to talk about your health, as I'm sure everyone does. How are you?
I'm doing good. I'm doing good today. Um it It's interesting. I've talked about this before, but when Kate Middleton talked about her journey recently. She said something that was so Powerful for me, and it helped me articulate a feeling that I was having such a hard time articulating.
And she said something like, You think that the first part of the journey, like the treatments and the chemo and the surgeries, like that's the hard part. And if you get through that, then the rest you can deal with. It is sometimes feeling feels so much harder to do all the stuff afterwards because your body has been through so much. You're much more exhausted. The medicine you have to take afterwards is.
Sometimes so exhausting, and it goes on for so long, and also, on top of that, there's the the mental stress of Having to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life, you know, like once. I think anybody who's gone through cancer and been in that same position where you're in the doctor's office and you hear those words. It takes your breath away. And you just kind of realize, oh, this happened to me. You know, sometimes you think it doesn't happen.
It happens to other people, or it happens in movies, you see the whole thing play out. And for me I was like, oh, like...
Okay, like I have to start fighting now, and I'm in a battle, and this will go on for the rest of my life. And I I know how lucky I am because So many women in my position aren't given a path forward. You know, they're told to get their affairs in order and I was given a chance to fight. And my mother was given a chance to fight.
So, with that, I think that I'm so lucky. I don't look at it like. like cancer has taken these things from me or It's unfair that I have to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life. I know that I am lucky to be here and I know how lucky I am to be exhausted. How lucky I am to be exhausted.
Yeah, when my kids, you know, they're four and 17 months, and it's exhausting, as you know. It's like, and And I actually just thought about it yesterday because my daughter was screaming. She was like, she wants to go outside, but she wants to play in the water, but it's getting cold. She can't play in the sprinkler. She's got to come.
And she is very strong-willed. And I was like trying to handle her as my four-year-old is, you know, screaming for me to come play with him over here. And I was like, this is insane. But it hit me like I am so lucky that Like that, this is so crazy right now. I'm so lucky that I'm in this chaos and that.
I haven't slept in a few days, and that I'm exhausted. It's a true privilege to just be alive in the world. Yeah. How precious are those moments now? Oh my gosh, like it's such a gut punch to be given the diagnosis of cancer.
And with mine specifically, where My doctor. told me that. You know, we're lucky at stage one.
However, this is very aggressive and it's bilateral and multifocal and multi-quadrant. What that means is it's in multiple. parts of my breast. And it's in both breasts, and that was more rare, and so. there is this this fear that comes over you of like wow where else has it gone?
And how did it even get here? Like, how's, you know, I felt fine, and now it's here and it's all over, and it's. Um it's just so scary and you know, and being um a mother to young you know at that time Malcolm had like just turn two And so it was like. What am I going to do? What do you do?
Like, what happens? Like, what happens to. to your family, to your kids, your friends, like what happens to everybody? There was a lot less fear of me not being here, and so much more fear of. me not being here for the people who need me.
And that's when you feel Thank you. Out of control. I just felt like, oh wow, like the wheel has been taken from me and I'm, you know. flying down the highway and I don't have control. That's where the The Opportunity to fight comes in because I realize: okay, I can take control of this and I can get to somewhere that.
Yeah. going to be a beautiful place where I get to live my life. if I take all of these extreme measures. And so Yeah. And talk about the you say extreme measures.
What are the extreme measures you decided to take?
Well, I decided to I decided to get a double mastectomy. And I also got an opherectomy and a partial hysterectomy. The double mastectomy was important because I did the lifetime risk assessment test, which is something that Save my life. It's a free online test that anyone can take. It takes minutes to take and get your score, and it tells you your chance of getting breast cancer in your lifetime.
And anything above 20% is considered high risk, and I was 37.3%. And you had no symptoms. No symptoms. And I had a clear mammogram and a clear ultrasound. And I did clear genetic testing for not just BRCA, but a lot of other breast cancer genes that you can test for.
I tested negative for all cancer genes, not even just breast cancer, like all.
So I felt really good. And then my doctor, Dr. Aliyabadi, did the lifetime risk assessment test and said, like, you need to go get an MRI. And so I go get the MRI. And the radiologist calls and said, I think we see something.
And so then they make me go do an ultrasound, and then I'm in the Ultrasound and The doctor is You know, looking around, and she's really quiet. And I'm like, you know, do you see something? And she said, Well, I see the one from the MRI, but now I'm seeing two more. And that's when she explained to me the multi quadrant.
So like multi-quadrant is, so our breasts are round and they think of our breasts in quadrants.
So you put a cross right through it. And it's not Super abnormal to have. tumors in one quadrant, which would be multifocal. but I had them in two different quadrants.
So she's like, you need to go get an emergency biopsy right now.
So then I went in the very next day and got the biopsy. It was just a few days later that my doctor had me come in and said, look, this is. It's already been tested and this is an aggressive type of cancer. And she said, I guarantee you, if it's this much in one breast, it's definitely in your other breast. And so when I was meeting doctors through this, they said, there's no way that it's in your left breast.
Like, that would be too crazy. It's already enough in one, but this is. this this would not be likely. And then sure enough, it there was. Yeah.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. I can't even I mean, you touched on this, but when you hear news like that, what goes through your head and your heart? For me, I just I s I got really focused. I didn't cry.
I didn't ask why me, I just Like, listened to the instructions that she was giving me. She was like, you have to get a dull mastectomy. And explain to me why.
So some people Choose a different path, and everything is, you know, every path is different for everybody, and it makes sense for. for them. But when you get a lumpectomy, It takes out just the tumor. And then you have to do radiation afterwards. And if you do radiation, It damages your skin irreparably, and it can make your skin into like.
Paper thin, okay, so you have a higher chance of necrosis and losing your skin and Um and also it makes Whatever part of your body is getting the radiation, it shrinks it. Everything shrinks.
So then it's going to be hard to get symmetry if you wanted to do reconstruction later. And the biggest reason for me was that. If I do a lumpectomy and I only take out that tumor, my lifetime risk score is still 37.3% because it's the tissue. And so it was important to take out all of the tissue so that my score dropped to zero.
Now your score is zero.
Now my score is zero, yes. I want to talk about this, the test, the lifetime risk assessment test. Since you went public with your story, the number of women taking that risk assessment test has gone up. 4,000 percent. Yeah.
I mean you've literally saved Lives. When I decided to talk about this publicly, That was the number one goal. I said, I want women to know about this because I didn't know about this test, but it's been around. Yeah. So many years.
It's just been there for doctors. To do for women, to let them know, but no one has told us. I thought, if this is a free online test, this isn't like one of those. Big MRI companies where people have to spend thousands of dollars to get a scan done, and a lot of people can't afford that.
So it's really. You know, uh It's really created for people of a s of a certain um You know, economic status.
So, this is a free online test, and I wanted women to know about it. And I Was never expecting the response. And for it to go global, and so many women to know about this test, and for it to be saving lives. You know, I was just talking to somebody yesterday, and she said, you know. I took the test because of you and I had all of my girlfriends take it too.
And I meet people all the time. Like when I'm out and about, and you know, young mothers too who have found their breast cancer because of this. And it really is great for people who. you are unsure if they are are even susceptible, especially younger women. Who don't really even think that they're at risk?
It's one of the things, but okay, being a mother. Is the number one thing in my life. It makes me so proud to see these little people in the world and that. I get to be the one to to raise them into hopefully really great people in the world and who are really kind and thoughtful. And the other thing that I am the most proud about is Getting this information out and having so many women take this risk assessment test, and knowing that it's really changed so many people's lives, it's been.
Um the most amazing thing. I I there's no way I could have ever predicted it. What's it like to have somebody come up to you and say, hey, you saved my life? That's really hard to describe. There is an instant bond with a woman who comes up and says, I have breast cancer.
Okay. Somebody had said this phrase to me and it really hit home. They said, Welcome to the Worst Club with the best members. There is this like sisterhood that we have that You just never feel alone. Cause so many women have gone through it.
And whatever Um someone comes up to me. Oftentimes they say, like, sorry, I don't want to bother you. And I'm like, no, you're not bothering me at all. Because every time I talk to somebody going through this, I feel like I'm getting healed a little bit more myself. And I think I feel less afraid every time because there is this.
feeling that when I'm looking at someone. who is going through it, I feel like I want it. I want to impart some of my Experience on them and try to instill a lot of courage and hope because they think there's so much hope with this. You can never lose hope. That's the biggest thing.
You know, when I was diagnosed, one of the first things I did was, Look online. I was online, I wanted to hear other people's stories who have talked about this publicly. And one big through line was that it was really scary. There was a lot of posting about. Um the treatment and and their fears and the how emotional it made them and there is a very real part of that.
That is that is one hundred percent, like eighty percent of what you feel. But I was really looking for hope. I was really looking for women who got to the other side of it. And Look like themselves and looked happy and like they were thriving. And I just needed that because it needed to be.
Something that I could could hang my hat on and be like, okay, this is this is possible. And so when I speak to other women and when they come up to me and when I talked about it publicly. It's so important for me to Lean into the hope of it because that's what I needed. And I see that's a big thing that I've received back from talking about it publicly. How many people have Um felt that they're going to be okay.
You know, it's like Having hope is one of the biggest driving forces in getting better and getting through this. What's it been like to have John by your side through all of this? I mean There is no better person in the world to me than my husband. I mean, you've met him. He's just, he's very kind and he's very thoughtful and he's very nice and.
And he really loves to help. That's a huge part of his. Of his persona and his identity. You know, he just. loves to help.
Um You know, when we first met, it was really funny because his parents are successful. And Um they they don't need anyone to help them you know pay their electric bill. But John told me that all he wants to do is help his dad pay the water bill. And I was like, does he need help paying the water bill? He goes, no, but I just wish that he would ask me to.
And I said, well, that. Is so interesting because I have an entire Asian family who's going to be so happy for you to pay their water bills and get them a new roof. I mean, they're going to line up. Um and they have. Um but um But he's just sucked.
He wanted to come to every single doctor's appointment. He had his little notebook. You know, he's got his notebook that he writes all of his. ideas for jokes and anything that comes to him through the day. You know, you turn halfway through it and there's all these notes about, you know, cancer and hormone therapy and You know, everything that you could imagine that I need to know, he was there.
And um You know, Having the humor to go through it and having someone who's so funny. It really It just lightens everything. We made a lot of inappropriate cancer jokes that we could never tell publicly. Because it just lightened the mood. It just made it not so scary.
And Um And it really helped change my mind at times.
Sometimes when I was really scared, we'd talk about it. we'd really get into all of the fears and his fears and then There'd be like a lull and then he would make a joke and it would just all feel not so scary at that time. That's beautiful. Yeah. He's the best.
Mm-hmm. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview after this break. Not sure how to tackle your taxes? Are you sweating the small print? You may be experiencing FOMO.
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Download today. Um What For you And I do want to talk about your career. We have a lot of people. Oh, no, I've never been a person who has been like, I need a purpose in life or I have a purpose in life. I just.
I wanted to be good to my family and my friends and I wanted to be an actor and that was really, you know like that's what I focused on as a as a kid. And then there are times, you know, that come up, you know, like Stop Asian Hate and the the Me Too movement and things that that felt really important to me. But Uh Once I was diagnosed with breast cancer, it was like, oh. This is This is what I can do. This is how I can.
Really? How they strong purpose in life and if I can help people get better and feel hopeful and Feel a sisterhood, like then I'm going to do it.
So, anytime anybody wants to talk about it. Um I'm so happy too because that this is the the driving force in in my life aside from my my kids and my husband. Like this is this is what I want to do. This is your mission. Yeah, more than I mean acting a bike.
It's The acting thing is really nice and I'm really excited to get back into it, but This is what m It gets me excited and really gives me a lot of energy. I just I just I know How much I needed it, and then seeing the response and seeing how many people it's saved has been. It it It's um Yeah. It's just inc it's incredible. I I don't know any other word.
It's just so It's just It's incredible. I couldn't believe it. You know, Allison Hall. Um CBS. That story probably sticks with me more than than all of them because it was You know, she's so young.
And Like her boss, it's like can you Go do this lifetime risk assessment test because Olivia just talked about it publicly. And I was like Finding that out, it's like she there's All the signs pointed to that, you know, She'd be okay, she was healthy, she was young, and to have breast cancer. at that moment in her life. seemed really unlikely. Um but she scored high.
And then for her to have... breast cancer and then to go through Some of the steps that I went through, like a double mastectomy, was Like I was like, wow, like that's um Like, that's the power of sharing your story. That's the power of. of going through something really difficult and getting to the other side and and and letting people know like what you've been through and and what they can do to help themselves. Yeah, I mean you literally Saved her life.
And then got to sit across from her and she told you that. Yeah, that was really I mean, I think her and I were just like crying and crying and crying. I've tried not to cry so hard when I'm on T V because I'm like, that's a lot of crying. Like I've I've cried a a lot since, you know, I only cried twice during the journey of my diagnosis before I spoke about it publicly. The first was going into my double mastectomy.
I was so afraid of not coming out, it's such a big surgery. And then I cried a week afterwards when, you know, I just kind of I Just realize what I had gone through and and And And like what that Like It's just like you're. I'm like, how am I going to dress myself? Like, I've never had like. Thanks.
Breast implants like this, and it's very different when you go through a double mastectomy. They have to be like a rounded shape, and that's not as natural looking. I just was like, oh my gosh, my, my. How is my life going to change? I will say that a big part of that was A lot of people trying to help.
but not helping. in this specific way. When I would talk to people about Going through a double mastectomy, and also the ophorectomy and the partial hysterectomy, where I would have my ovaries, my fallopian tubes, and my uterus removed. I would Be told often. to get ready.
To have a traumatic um experience afterwards because I may not feel like a woman anymore. Because these These identity markers for women can be your breast and your reproductive organs. I just had never thought of that.
So now that's in front of you: that, oh, I have to be prepared for this. Yeah, I thought, wait, but. I I thought like by weight like having my breast removed, I'll feel less. Like a woman? And then suddenly that's another train coming at you.
Yeah, well, it just. You know, it's like when someone puts something into your mind that wasn't there before. And when they told me, I thought, oh, that's really, that's not going to happen. And then it just kind of creeps up on you. And it really affected me after my opharectomy and my um partial hysterectomy because I was like Wait.
Like What does this mean now? Like, 'cause like right before that, I was Like literally the day before, someone said it to me again, and I was like, What do you mean by this? Because people keep saying this, what do you mean? They're like, Well, it's just going to be empty now, where they were. is they're no longer going to be there and there's not going to be anything there and so Of course in my brain I'm like Is it like just Hollow?
It's like, what's happening? And it just... It just created um a neuroses about it that Didn't need to be there. And that goes back to me really feeling like I wanted to put out hope. And also talk about it honestly.
And I do, I talk about how tough things. were and are. I talk about how it feels emotionally and physically. But a big part of it is the hope and to not Um Oh yeah. Do not put it into women's minds that this is the experience, because the truth is.
Once I got through those little moments and cried about the thoughts that had come into my mind. I was like, wait, this is not how I feel. This is not a reality. Like I am very much still who I am. Except now I'm I've proven to myself how brave I am.
You know, a lot of times you don't, you can't. really know how courageous and brave you are until you're Put to test. And you can always say, Oh, I know I would do this. I would do this. Yeah, if I was ever in this situation, I would do this.
you really don't know how you will respond until you're put into that situation and so Um You know, having a mastectomy and you know, having my ovaries and uterus taken out, like. I am I'm Myself. But the more the more confirmed, braver version of myself. That's great. Yeah.
When you're asking You're asking about um Like, what did that feel like that day? I have this expression that came up with. Years ago, when my grandmother passed away, and I was really close with her. I lived with her during college because she lived just down the street from the University of Oklahoma. Um it was like the middle of the night.
And I could hear my grandpa in the next room saying, Honey, honey, are you okay? Are you okay? And I was like what what is that?
So I went into their room and um the bathroom light was on and And you could See my grandfather, like, standing over my grandmother, and he was trying to wake her, but she had, you know, was unconscious. I had to call 911 and um and it was so Scary. I had just turned 21 at this time, so I was like, never experienced anything like this. And my grandmother was like. The best person in the entire world.
Just such a kind, kind person. Her name was Estelle, and just the best. And so I was just In shock, I've never, you know, I'm like, I have to call 91, I've got to tell them what's happening, and then the paramedics come in, and everything goes in slow motion. And the next day, um We were called back into the hospital and said, like, she's not going to make it, and we need to say our goodbyes. turn off the machine and It it just happens so suddenly and It happened.
Like on on a day that was really sunny outside. It was summer in Oklahoma. And it was really pretty. And This Horrible thing happened. This huge thing happened in my life.
And it didn't look like the movies. It wasn't ominous, the skies weren't dark, it wasn't thundering and lightning and rain, it was a beautiful. Day. It was a weekday. It was just, it wasn't the...
The big scary feeling. And so I came up with this expression. Um that I say um A lot actually to myself as a reminder of how life can change in an instant. They say it's not the Christmases and the birthdays and the New Year's that we remember. Like, life happens on a Tuesday.
Like it just It just happens. And you cannot expect it. And so every day you should just be so present. and grateful and Put your phone down when you your kid says, Mommy. Like you don't wait for the second time.
You know, you do it the first time. Let them know that they are important. You know, I... Because of going through cancer, I started thinking about my life and how much time I would. get here and that we don't get to choose that time.
And I thought about myself. making it to 80. And I thought... If if If someone came to me, said I'm going to give you 40 years back. You get to go back to this exact moment.
Like, what would I do? I would Throw my phone in the ocean. I would look at my son. I would play with him until I was exhausted. I would get in bed with him and I would just stare at his little face and I would cuddle him and hold him.
And That's all I would do.
So Let me just pretend as if That has already happened. And I've been given forty years back and just be here. Because That's what I would do. And so that's like in that same vein of like life happens on a Tuesday because like Um These are the moments. This is what is this is what life is made of.
It's all these tiny little moments. And once you are faced with the possibility of death and not being here.
Next up. For me, all I wanted were the little moments. They're the best. They are. I mean, you know, having kids, it's like You know, because I think about Like I say to John a lot, like we never know when we're creating a core memory.
Because there are times In my life, that I know my mom doesn't remember, but they stand out to me so much. they're so impactful and it and like so we don't We don't know when we're going to create that memory. And so let's really be thoughtful about all of those times and those moments because The hope is that it's a really great core memory. Talk about your childhood a little bit. What was your childhood like?
You started off in Oklahoma, then you were in Japan, then you were in Oklahoma again. Yeah. My mom is Chinese Vietnamese and she Escaped. Vietnam the day the war ended back in 75. And her and her um her mother and her eight siblings.
Got onto a ship and made their way to the Philippines, and then were sponsored to come to America. And then while they were here, they all worked extremely hard. They all went to school and um got their masters and I have the you know Uh Aunts and uncles who are top doctors in their field, and one uncle worked for NASA, and there's Engineers and teachers, and everyone has really worked really hard to contribute to. The country that really embraced them and gave them a real shot of. of living a really beautiful and um And Um Just just a beautiful life.
Um Uh So my mom was in Oklahoma and then she was introduced to my biological father. Through a friend, and they married and had my sister who's two years older than me, Sarah, and then they had me. And then at six months. old, my mother and father divorced. And then soon after that, she married my first stepfather.
And he was in the military and he was in the Air Force. And so went from Oklahoma to Utah and then to Japan. And then we were in Japan for a really long time from like fifth grade till, you know, um Fifth grade tilt Through sophomore year, yeah.
So I was in Japan from fifth grade through sophomore year in high school. And then you moved back to Oklahoma in the middle of high school. Yeah. Thank you for understanding that. Oh my gosh.
That was.
So difficult. Like people think it's hard to like live in Japan. And how that must have been a culture shock? No, no. It was a huge culture shock to come back to Oklahoma because in Oklahoma, everyone has grown up together.
They've known each other from kindergarten up. And so I come in junior year in high school. Everyone has already found their friend groups. There's social hierarchies. Like everyone is like in their place.
And I was when I was in Japan, I um I was a cheerleader, and I was, you know, I went out for class president and became class president, and I had my friend group, but I also dressed like a skater. Like, so I wore, I wasn't a skater, but I dressed like it. I wore really big oversized jeans and big. men's t-shirts and converse and When I get to Oklahoma, this is like, you know, where people like do pageants and they all like their moms taught them how to curl their hair and put on makeup and I was walking through the hallways and pretty invisible and that was really hard because I went from a school that where I was so involved and had so many friends. To not being seen at all.
And I mean like invisible, like just walking through the halls and no one even looking at me. The first month of being at this high school, I would arrive. Um Like that, I would go into the hallway where my first period was, and I would just be crying. I'd cry from the moment I got out of my car until I made it to my first class, and I would cry for the first five minutes. like quietly to myself just like trying to hold it back and then I would get myself together and then when I would see the clock was like oh five minutes before the bell rings and we go to our next class and I'd be in the hallways again.
where no one is even clocking that there is a human being walking by that they've never met. And I would start crying again. I just I felt so lost. And I also grew up as one of five kids, and so from the time I was two. To 16, I had a stepbrother and a stepsister.
along with my my older sister and my younger brother. My stepsister and I were the same age.
So we were always in school together. And my sister and my stepbrother were only two years older, so we were always in school together.
So there were the four of us. And so by the time I went to this new high school, My mother had divorced my stepfather. And my stepsister is no longer in my life. And my sister is now in her First year of college.
So it's just you. It was just me. Where do you think that seed was planted to get into acting? I loved Punky Brewster. As a kid, you remember Punky Boots.
Yes, of course. And she looked like me. I was, I, I, my stepsister was very girly and wore dresses and loved like makeup and things like that. And I, Um I like to get dirty and I wore like, you know, like plaid pants from the eighties and like T-shirts that belonged to like my older brother and And I saw Punky Brewster, who had dark hair. And freckles like me, and she was more of a tomboy.
And I It was like What, how can I play with her? And I wanted to play with her. I want my mom to call Bunky Brewster. And she explained to me then that she was just an actor and this is TV. And then I started kind of.
Realizing what that was, and was like, oh, that's what I want to do. I want to do this. I love storytelling, even at such a young age. And I was like, I want to do this. But it took certain people believing in me.
And those people specifically are Um Jon Stewart. Francine Maisler, the casting director, and Aaron Sorkin. Those three people really changed my life and my career because That all happened simultaneously. Jon Stewart had. seen me do some of my skits on G4.
And asked for me to come in. And I met with him, and then he. said right there in that meeting, he said, um you know, I want you to come on and be the new correspondent. And that was like, you know. like people now are Getting to know who Jon Stewart is again because he's back on air.
But he, like at the time, and still is to so many of us, like... Like The pinnacle. And so when he Said that he thought that I was good enough and funny enough to be on his show. It was just like. such a huge moment and then Um There is the newsroom that comes along, and that Aaron Sorkin is a big fan of The Daily Show.
And And then there's Francine Maesler, the casting director, and they both said that we should bring her in for this role. And Sorgan had just come off winning his Academy Award for Social Network. And there was a lot of people trying out for these. There's three roles that That I could have done. Um, and it all depended, you know, and they had me try out for two of them, and then.
And I you know, got got the the role of Son Sabbath, which Everything changed. You know, when you have two people of that caliber and then a casting director of that caliber. It just it helped change the way that people were looking at me. And also you did an awesome job. What was it like trying, did you struggle with that dialogue?
You know, you hear about the Aaron Sorkin dialogue. Um I speak really fast. I don't know how fast it's going to sound in this interview when people listen, but I speak really fast, like so much so that people have told me to slow down. And so when I was Doing Um Sorghin dialogue. I remember the very first day, my very first take That day, when I was talking really fast, and then the director came up to me.
I was like, hey, can you just slow it down a little bit? And then Soar could hear. And he goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, go faster. No, go faster.
Go faster. He's like, that means I can get more words in her mouth. And I was like, okay. And I was like, so excited that I could talk. my normal speed and just like, you know, go to town.
But Um I had also when I was on G4 We would go out and take these international trips to Amsterdam and Tokyo, and we didn't have a prompter, so we had. Um all this dialogue to do direct to camera. And I have never been good. Like in auditions, people always come in with their paper and they're holding their paper and they're looking on it. And I could never do that.
You would always memorize it. Yeah, because I would feel like I just didn't understand the choreography of now you flip your page. I would just get so nervous.
So I was like, I have to memorize. And so when we were on G4, we had to memorize like massive amounts of dialogue. And so then I taught myself how to Like Like just um Like rem remember everything by looking at it.
So you can look at an Aaron Sorkin script and boom. I could look at it and work on it and then Learn it pretty quickly because I had gone through that kind of crash course in Tokyo with G4. But his was really difficult for me at times because my character. He had written into the script, said that she's the smartest person in the building with two PhDs. I was like, that's not me.
I don't know, I can't do this. And she's a financial expert.
So they're. Were scenes where I had to explain the economy and the history of the economy, and I had to be the. like the expert on all of this. And so I had it was like reading It was like reading Chinese. Like, I was like, I don't know what this means and how am I going to remember it?
Because so many of the things sound the same, like when you're going through numbers and companies and the stock. And so I created my own hieroglyphics for it.
So like if I had to say like Like the House Senate overturned the ruling for. T-Mobile to Uh incorporate and merge with AT ⁇ T. like I would make I would say like You know, I would draw a little house and I'd make the Senate would probably be like an old man with like a mustache. I would draw like a face with a mustache.
So you have these pictures in your brain for all the. Yeah, so I would, so then as I'm, whenever I'm doing the dialogue, I'm just seeing the pictures. Like I'm just seeing the pictures, I'm seeing the how, I was just, and I would remember it like the way that it was, like, oh, it goes to this line and would move to this line. I just remembered it like a picture. That's really cool.
Yeah. It totally worked.
So, what, yeah, if you go back and watch it, I'm literally just thinking of like. Victors the whole time. But it would make sense to me because I was like, oh, now the House, Senate is doing.
Okay, now I understood it. because I could visualize it. Yeah. So do you feel like in a way is your friends and neighbors like a full circle moment for you, kind of what you've been pushing for all along. The newsroom is the pinnacle for me.
Like I, working with Aaron Sorkin and working with his dialogue. and getting to do that character. Um Mm-hmm. It feels like just yesterday. I cannot believe how many years it's been.
Especially because so many people talk to me about it and have loved it and are re-watching it. That character, um I I I I just, I love that character so much and I love working on that show. I've done a lot since then. But the second closest would be your friends and neighbors. Um It's such a fun character.
I will say that in Your Friends and Neighbors, I've never played this type of character. I've never played. Like the person who's really Like Hmm, I wouldn't say the bad guy. She's manipulative. She's manipulative and she is looking out for herself and.
She's really not someone that you should be trusting.
So, just one more question while we're sitting here. And I asked you this earlier: how are you? But if you, do you. And you've touched on this a little bit, but... Do you take time to step back and go, Wow, I mean to look at this view, to look at where you are career-wise.
What you've gone through. Yeah, every day. Every day I think about it. Every single day. I I think about The fact that I'm here.
The fact that I've got such a sweet little family, and that I've got a husband who's like. Just the most fun nice person in the world and like my kids are just like like my whole life and we just love them so much. It's just I never I never went. was like the person who was like, I want to have kids and I want to get married. I just, I never thought about that.
And I feel that This was always going to be my life. Like it was just, it's such a special time in my life. John and I talk about this a lot, about how people are like, once they have kids, they're like, this is the best time of my life. We're like, well, we had some really good times, you know? You know, when he got onto SNL for the first time as a writer, that was like an amazing time of his life.
And when I got onto the Daily Show and got the newsroom, that was like. such an incredible time of my life. This is a different kind of incredible. And I'm so happy to be in this life. And I'm so happy that this came later for me.
You know, I was 41 when I had Malcolm, 40 when I got pregnant. Um It gave me a l a a a lot of runway to Define myself and to figure things out and to have a lot of experiences and to mess up and to. Um To have great opportunities with work.
Something I've learned as a parent is, and I'm sure you'll be able to understand this, is that. Um Mm-hmm. The things I've really truly messed up, the big mistakes I've made, I know that's going to help me more as a parent. because my kids inevitably will make mistakes. And I want to be there to help them not beat themselves up too much and help them be able to pick themselves up and course correct.
And I can do that because I can say, like, look, I've done this, and sometimes I've done worse. And and I beat myself up too much about it. And the thing is, is that Like When it All ends. When we when we leave this earth. Like the things that you'll remember and the things that you wish you did more Of is just like Loving people and being happy, and most of all, like loving yourself.
Like, I don't think I had a lot of that in myself. I think I thought I did because I was so feisty and I was fighting for myself, but. Like I I I found I find that I thought I was So strong. And I had this armor on, and I really was like combative, and I would fight for myself and fight for others, and I would just like. I would just unleash sometimes for what I thought was right.
And I do look back and I'm like, what I was fighting for was the right thing. But the way I was fighting was not the way to accomplish anything. And I realized that. With my cancer battle, like I couldn't hold on to this armor. There's no way I could have climbed the mountain that I had to climb with this heavy steel armor on.
So I dropped it. And then I realized like I'm so much stronger. being vulnerable. I'm so much stronger leading with my heart. and being kind to myself.
And that has changed my life. And I wish... I had learn that earlier. But you learned it. I've learned it with enough time in my life to really enjoy a big portion of my life.
I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts.
Now streaming on Paramount Plus. My center, my soul, is gone. from Academy Award nominee Taylor Sheridan. Mine is not a family designed to withstand tragedy. Starring Academy Award nominee Michelle Pfeiffer and Golden Globe nominee Kurt Russell.
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Welcome to Survivor 50. I wanted one more shot to play the game that I fell in love with 25 years ago. I want to win against the best of the best. I chickened out at the Final Tribal. Season 50, it's an honor.
Light your torch. I've got some unfinished business. Be part of history. I have more to play for this time. Bigger than ever.
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