Extended Interview: Sean Ono Lennon

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Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, um, Les Claypool and I, uh, Les from Primus, we have a band called The Claypool Lennon Delirium, which is kind of a Whimsical Prague rock, experimental psych band. It's fun. And I've had a lot of fun doing it. And we have a new album coming out.

sometime early next year, I think. Yeah. And uh it's called the great parrot ox and the golden egg of empathy. That's a great title. There's a photograph of the two of you.

It looks like you're out in the desert somewhere with like crazy hats from holders. It's one of my favorite pictures. Thank you. Yeah, I have a lot of fun with him because Les is a great musician, but he's also really funny.

So we can play around. Yeah. What was the inspiration for that combination?

Well, I toured with him with Primus with my other band, The Ghost. Ghost, yeah. And. Yeah, we just got along really well. And Charlotte and I, my partner and bandmate, were kind of like struggling a little bit with having a band at a relationship.

And Les and I were getting along so well, so we just thought, why don't we start a band? And it kind of worked out. And it also really helped my relationship with Charlotte, to be honest. Did it?

Well, because working and being in love is hard. Yes. It's a luckily lesson I can't tonic. Work relationship. Yeah, that's funny.

How did you decide what kind of sound you wanted for that kind of sound? your union.

Well, I've always been a fan of Primus, and he seemed to love the ghost.

So it was kind of. It kind of felt like a merger of those two worlds. He liked what we were doing with Ghost, which was a kind of neo-psychedelic. I hate putting things in boxes. Yes, yes.

Can't put it in a box, but if I had to, I'd say the ghost was kind of psych, and he's sort of. Very idiosyncratic. He's his own thing. He's invented his own quirky universe. Which you kind of have too.

Yeah, we found something together, which I think is greater than the sum of its parts, kind of thing.

So that's why I really enjoy it. And we have a pretty cool fan base, and we're going on tour in July.

So, yeah, I'm really excited. And this is our first double album, by the way. It's a big deal. And it's a concept album too. It's actually about the paperclip dilemma.

Have you heard of what that is? A paperclip dilemma is something in computer science. The idea is with AI or some highly advanced Computer system. If you gave it the job of making as many paperclips as possible, most efficiently as possible. It could wind up going out of control and turning the entire earth into paperclips.

Maybe melting human beings into paperclips. And you couldn't stop it because it would be too powerful.

So the idea is: you have to be careful how we program these devices.

So it's based on that. It's kind of like a literal interpretation of what if. That actually happened. Yes. What brought you to making a film?

Of war is over.

Well, at first I was asked if I might help come up with an idea for a music video for the song Happy Christmas War is Over. And I did actually try to do that for a while. I took submissions from directors like treatments and stuff. And I, in fact, was trying to think of an idea myself. And nothing was really Sticking.

I just felt Like I'd heard the song so many times, and I think many people have heard that song many times. I mean, it's sort of a perennial Christmas classic. that I didn't know if I would be interested in just seeing. The song play with some visuals.

So I thought, well, what if we actually made a short film that was more like a story? And then we Drop the song as a score, kind of like the way you would in a film. And you know, I thought about in a Scorsese film, he drops a Rolling Stones song, and you know the song, but suddenly it sounds new because you're so excited, there's a new context for it.

So I wanted to see if I could get that feeling of. maybe it sounds like you're hearing it again for the first time, or at least in a new context, in a way that you'd pay attention. As opposed to, oh, there it is on the radio again.

So that was the idea, and it went from there.

So how long did it take you to get to the to a story idea for the film? That actually happened really fast.

So, what I call my friend Adam Gates, who is an animator at Pixar, and he He has a band called this is a lot of lore, there's a lot of backstory, but um he has a band uh Um Called Bean Pole. And called Bean Pole. That's really great, by the way. I put him out on my record label. And so we became friends, but he's a Pixar guy.

So I said, Adam, you think you could do an animation with me? And he goes, well, I can't, because I'm. You know, with Pixar. But my friend Dave Mullins just left Pixar. Check him out.

So Dave did a film called Lou, L-O-U, that got an Academy Award nomination. It's a short. And I watched it and I was just like, man, this film is so good.

So I called Dave Mullins. Dave and I had a Zoom and we in our first hour of conversation, we came up with the whole outline.

So then I knew that I wanted to work with him because I liked his film, he's super talented, but we also had this kind of creative connection.

So we came up with this idea that two soldiers would be playing chess on opposite sides of a of a of a war. And that there would be an animal helping them. At first, we thought maybe it could be a dog or something, but then I actually have this very deep love for birds. And I'd also read an article that there were sort of heroic messenger pigeons from World War I and World War II. You know, there's some monuments to pigeons who had sort of survived and got a message out, even though they were wounded.

So I just was so touched by that story. You know, we're always like, you know, lauding the human heroes, but I thought it was really sweet to also acknowledge the pigeons.

So then I thought, well, let's make it a pigeon, and that was it. We were pretty much. We had the whole idea at that point and then it was just tweaking it and and refining it. What's the significance of it being a chess match?

Well, I love chess. I'm not a great chess player, but I really love playing. And my mother, Is a real chess enthusiast too. And my dad played chess as well.

So we're kind of a chess family. I grew up with lots of chessboards around. And my mother also has an art piece called Play It by Trust, which I've always loved. In fact, we have one at our house in the country. And it's a big white chessboard that only has white squares.

And all the pieces are white.

So the idea is played by trust, meaning, You you can't really fight if we're all s if we see each other as the same colour. I mean, there's an exception to that because obviously someone like Magnus Carlson can just play in his head. But if you're a normal chess player, you can't play without colors. And it's a piece, it's a conceptual piece, you know, piece about piece. Yeah.

You said in one interview that I read. You said that in in s in a lot of ways this movie was really a a tribute to your mom? Yeah, exactly.

So I wanted to do chess as a theme because I really love her artwork about peace, the play by Trust Peace. And so I thought it was like a nice nod to her. Part. and her love of the game. Yeah, and so that's where we started and we actually used a real chess match because this was Dave's idea But he wanted the last move to be going from being in check to check mating in one move which is very rare in chess.

You know, it never happens.

So he had to find a real game in history that had done that and he talked with a chess master and there was a lot of backstory to that.

So for all the chess nerds out there you can you can watch the film and see that there's real real chess behind it. Yeah. You put it up on YouTube so everyone can see it. We did.

So we got the Oscar for the short last year and we were thinking of trying to stream it on some streaming service. But honestly, in the end, we just felt the best thing would be to just put it out on YouTube. It's on the John Lennon channel. And um Yeah, let everyone see it for free. And we're also trying to raise money for a charity called Warchild.

Oh, yeah. Which is a really great charity that focuses on kids and children who are affected by war, and families with children who are affected by war. And we just thought that was a great partnership because You know, we're trying to get the message to young people ultimately that. you know, we can strive towards a less violent world. Um you mentioned the Oscar.

Um How did it feel to get an Oscar? Honestly, it was really surreal. Um I i it was disorienting. I really didn't uh I didn't expect that we were going to ever get nominated.

So by the time I was on stage, and it just seemed like I was in a dream state. It was really fun, actually. And luckily, our award was the. One of the earliest awards in the evening.

So we got out of the way really quick, and then I could just have fun.

So the rest of the night was really great, but the whole kind of anticipation and And the and the being on stage was a little scary. It felt like a Miss Universe pageant or something, and I had won, and I was just standing there kind of. Crying, you know. You've been on stage before, though. I mean, I guess it's not quite like that.

Yeah, I'm on stage a lot, but usually people are, you know, like throwing banana peels at me. This was different. They seemed to be supportive. It was really sweet.

Something I'll never forget. Yeah. And probably something you didn't at all expect. No. Yeah, I mean, I've never really made a film, let alone get an Oscar nomination.

It wasn't something that we were looking to do. But I did know that the film had some thing really special at its core. When I first read the outline of the story to my girlfriend Charlotte, she got teary-eyed. She got choked up. And she's one of those people who's just cold as ice.

I mean, you know, we could watch a movie and I'll be weeping hysterically, and she's just looking at me. What's your problem? Like, yeah, what's wrong with you, you wimp. But I read her this outline, and she got choked up, and that's when I knew that there was something special in the story.

So I did have a feeling that there was something really good about it. And in fact, the enthusiasm from other people who helped us finish the film was another indication that there was something good in the script. You're effectively the custodian of your dad's legacy now. Yeah. Technically, but obviously the world is also the custodian of his legacy, I would say.

And I try not to think of it. too seriously in that way 'cause I don't you know, I don't wanna I I don't want to make too big a deal out of it, like, it's up to me. I mean, the music is. timeless and it speaks for itself, you know. I'm just doing my best to.

Help. Make sure that the younger generation doesn't forget about the Beatles and John and Yogo. That's how I look at it. Do you think that's even possible? To forget about it?

I do actually, and I never did before. I mean, recently, I don't know if you saw, there was a viral. Kind of video clip of Ringo walking through someone's stream. I don't know what the situation was, but this young guy was like, who is that? And his stream was saying, you don't know who that is?

That's Beetle Ringo. And he was like, I don't know who Beetle Ringo is. You know, some people don't know. You know, for example When I was young, they used to teach Shakespeare in every high school. Yeah.

Because Shakespeare is an important part of Our culture, and we don't want to forget. And if you stop teaching Shakespeare in schools, you know, they probably won't remember.

So I do think, you know. Humanity creates Pieces of culture and art that are important and shouldn't be forgotten. And I just think of it in those terms. I think the Beatles' music and John and Yoko's legacy is something important for the world to kind of cherish. and be reminded of.

So that's how I see my job. I mean, culture does. It's funny, because I was talking to Paul Simon about this last year. We were doing a story with him about his hearing and stuff. And I asked him, I said, do you think about legacy?

And he said, no. And I said, why not? And he said, because he said, culture always moves on, and it'll take what it wants. and it'll throw the rest of it on the road.

So you can get upset about it, but you're not going to change it. And I just thought it was an interesting thing, you know, to hear what the artists themselves thought about. You know what happens to all this stuff. And he's also pretty blunt about what he thought has aged well and what hasn't. But it's such an interesting idea.

And culture is pretty ruthless. Yeah, and I but I do think that we used to care a lot about you know funding the opera houses and funding the ballets and making sure that these older traditions were maintained and and and studied and understood. You know, and I do think if you don't work on it, it's easier for those things to fade away. But Paul Simon, honestly, he's one of the smartest. musicians I've ever met.

Um he's one of the greatest songwriters obviously. and producers. intelligent wave looking at music and art. You know, I I think um I think what he's saying is just philosophically true. To me, it's almost like it's about detachment.

You know, the reality is, you know, we're all only here temporarily.

So you can only get attached to things so much. But I think from my perspective Oh. My parents gave me so much. that I think it's the least I can do. to try and support They're a legacy in my lifetime.

I feel like I just owe it to them. It's a personal thing. In your view, what is their legacy? Yeah, well, that's a tough thing to have to summarize on the spot. In your heart, what is it?

I think I can say what I think one of the most significant And relevant aspects of their legacy is to me today. And that's peace and love. But it's not just peace and love, it's an attitude. towards activism. that is done with humor and love.

And I think it's really important because I see a lot of rightfully, you know, energized young activists today. And amazingly, young people are more politically conscious than they were when I was growing up. But I feel that there is a level of. of humor and love missing from a lot of the activity that I see. And I think that was even unique for John and Yoko in the 70s.

There were a lot of very angry radicals at the time as well. But I just think what you know my father said something about That you can't use violence against the man because the man understands the language of violence. And they will try to get you to be violent because once you become violent, they know how to deal with you. But what they don't know how to deal with is love and humor. And I just think that that's really profound.

Um And I think it's true. Yeah. And so I think that that part of their legacy is incredibly important and something that I I hope to convey to the younger generations. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north.

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Okay, well, um At first, we just wanted to do a film about my parents' last concert in Madison Square Garden, which was called One to One. And I would have been happy with the concert movie. But the director, Kevin McDonald, and his team Once they were looking through the archives, they found these phone calls that my parents had recorded of themselves, which interestingly was a response to the FBI tapping their phones.

So they thought, well, we need to tap our own phones because if they try to say we said something that we didn't say, we'll have our own record of it. I mean, it's pretty mind-blowing that that Actually, it happened.

So we had hours of them just chatting on the phone to their friends, to their assistants, to each other. And um When Kevin McDonald found those recordings, he thought, I think there's more to this film than just the concert. There's a film that uses the concert as a lens through which we can see their lives moving to New York and their political activism. And then also I would say you know, what was happening in America. And generally, you know, in Europe as well.

How many hours of recordings are there of that stuff? Of the phone calls, I think there's hours. I'm not sure I didn't go through all the raw stuff. Because actually, when Kevin said, oh, we should use these. These private phone calls for the film, I kind of didn't.

Really understand where he was coming from, to be honest. You didn't know they existed? I hadn't. I didn't really know they existed. I thought there might be some s stuff.

I mean, there we had tapes. Yeah. But it's not the kind of thing I wanted to listen to. I don't know. How to explain it, it's like It just seemed like it might be creepy.

I didn't know if it would, I didn't understand. I didn't see the vision. And Kevin is a really brilliant filmmaker.

So he understood what we had, and it's because of him that the film is that interesting, to be honest. I guess what I'm saying is if it were up to me, the film would have been a plain old concert footage documentary. And it turned into something much more interesting. And you know, to to speak to what I was saying before about Love and humor being these potential you know, tools for spreading your message. I really think the film one to one you know, you can see that.

Well, first of all, my parents are always being funny and they're always laughing. They're always having a good time. They're always joking around. And you know, even when he's at court, my dad and mom, because they're trying to deport him from the country, which is ridiculous, trying to deport John Lennon from the country, he's so sweet and like has a good humor about him. And I just think it's really nice and it's powerful.

I think there's something. I feel like There's strength. In in rising above it and and and and conducting yourself with with um Wi without taking yourself too seriously. What do you what do you see? When all of that stuff comes out and gets brought to the surface.

I mean, it just. What's it like? No, I mean, do you see something you maybe didn't see before? Or have you seen it all before? No, honestly, um I hadn't seen all of the home video footage in one-to-one.

I hadn't heard those phone recordings before. And personally, that stuff means a lot to me. For example, the Get Back film that Peter Jackson did, there were hours and hours of. of unused footage from the Let It Be film. And um You know, for me it's just It's like getting more moments to spend with my dad.

So it means a lot. Because I grew up with. You know, a limited number of video clips, a limited number of film clips, and a limited number of photographs that pretty much everyone has seen. And so it's almost like when I find something new that I haven't heard before or haven't seen before, I feel like I'm gaining a little moment to be with him.

So, actually, for me, on a personal level, it's It just really means a lot.

So, yeah. I mean, I think, I think. The one-to-one process of making that film was personally really nice for me just you know on a family level. You also produced All the music. The remastering of all the music, which actually sounds great.

Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's a really fun part for me, especially because it was a concert.

So, um, I have worked on overseeing the remixes of My dad's recordings. And that's really interesting, but it's also really difficult because, um, They were recorded really well.

So there's not, it's actually really hard to improve them. I think we managed to, to be honest, but the thing about the concert is it was kind of haphazard.

So it was very easy to improve it.

So I really enjoyed that a lot, and I do think it sounds. way better now. Yeah, I mean that just gives me a nice feeling that I get to Hmm. contribute to making my dad's music sound better. It's it's a nice thing for me, you know, personally.

I mean I would think in some ways Dealing with all of this, as I said, being the custodian of all this. Uh I mean That can be a pretty heavy thing in some ways, if you want it to be. Yeah, I do think so. The reality is, it doesn't really feel heavy to me until people start getting upset about something that I've done. You know, like the saxophone is too quiet on this mix.

And then I realize, oh my god, all these people are so precious about every song. But I don't really think about it when I'm working on it. I think it's because I actually am a musician by trade.

So for me to go and mix a song, I just get into work mode, you know, and I just try to make it sound as good as possible. It's once it comes out, I realize that I'm dealing with a legacy that a lot of people have a lot of feelings about. But I also try not to get too caught up in those reactions as well, because you can't please everybody. And I can sleep well at night knowing that I've. Just done the best job that I can do according to my ears or whatever it might be.

And that's all I can do.

So, yeah, I try not to let it weigh on me. For me, it actually feels more like. a treat. You know, it really does. It's like a treat to get to Mixed John Lennon songs, you know, and on top of it, he's my dad.

I love him so much. It feels like a It feels like a gift that I'm at this time in my life, that I'm given this opportunity to do it. I really enjoy it. It doesn't feel like work, you know. It feels.

Uh it feels fun. You know. I'd forgotten that the concert was for um For Willowbrook, which I remember really well and that whole thing. Um I mean, was the whole concert shot? Was it all preserved somewhere?

Yeah, we've got the whole concert and um I mean, it's pretty remarkable that they raised, I think, a million dollars. Like a million and a half, I think. Yeah, over a million dollars at the time, which. you know, if you adjust for inflation, I'm sure is a lot more. Yeah.

Well, and those things were pretty unusual then. Raising that kind of money was a big deal. For sure. I mean, even today, raising over a million dollars is a big deal.

So, yeah, I mean, it's a beautiful thing that they did. And you know The tragic part is that It was clear from how my dad talked about That show and touring that he wanted to do more. And he was going to do a lot more charity. work as well, charity concerts. He wanted to raise money for You know, prisoners who needed help with their legal stuff and couldn't afford bail, and he had a big plan for that.

you know, he sounded great and his voice was Arguably better than ever. I mean, it was different. I think he sounded amazing in a new way, in a more kind of raw and emotional way. And yeah, it would have been really beautiful to. For those tours to happen.

So it's pretty tragic, but I guess we just have to be lucky that we have that concert at all and that we recorded it or that they recorded it. All might not very well, but they recorded it.

Well, it was pretty unusual to record stuff then. I mean, wasn't it? I don't think so actually. I'm always shocked. how many concerts were recorded.

Considering that they had to roll around these big trucks with multi-track tape machines in them. But they did. They did a lot of shows. You're right, it's less common than today.

Well, it was so much more work then. Yes, and I mean, Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones, they recorded big, huge albums out of vans. There were these portable studios that they would drive around.

So that's how they would go to like some castle in the country and make a record. They just pull up this van or this bus, essentially. And so yeah, I mean, there were a lot of concerts that were recorded very well. But I think because the one-to-one concert was kind of a last-minute thing, or I guess I don't, maybe it wasn't last minute, but it wasn't on the heels of some well-oiled machine that tours all the time, you know, with John and Yoko.

So it was all put together just for that one-off. And I think that's why, you know, some of the mics might not have been working properly. And between the matinee, evening show, there was a lot of chaos, you know.

So yeah, we had a lot of work to do to clean everything up, but. Again, that's what made it the more fun for me, was having, you know. Having a ceiling that I could raise on the quality of everything. Yeah, well, you can do so much now, it's kind of amazing. It's a really great time for For what we've been doing, you know, working on 60s and 70s recordings.

With the modern technologies, it is really fun. It's the best time. Because there was a time when they remastered everything digitally in the 90s, and they were like, digitally remastered Jimi Hendrix or something, and it was always, it sounded terrible compared to the vinyl. But I don't think that's true anymore. I think we've gotten to the point where we can arguably improve the sound quality.

And it's an important concert because it's the only concert. Your parents did together, right? I mean, they did some uh festival appearances and some charity appearances, but it's the only full length concert. Certainly the only concert I think that he played a Beatles song to. come together, which he apparently wasn't going to do.

Um and they added it last minute. Because I think he was just in a good mood. Yeah. You know?

So he was really enjoying the rehearsals, and it was sounding great. Yeah. And everyone obviously wanted him to do a Beatles song. And he was just kind of like, I'm not going to do that. You know, but last minute they, Bob Gruen told me that he heard them rehearsing come together, and he was just like, Secretly very excited about Bob wouldn't know.

Yeah, that sounds great. It does. His voice sounds incredible. Yeah. How's your mom doing, by the way?

She's good. I mean, you know, she's 92, so she's slowed down a lot and she's retired. Yeah. So, um,. Yeah, I mean Uh You know, that's why I'm kind of trying to do the work that she used to do.

And I think she did a really great job for a lot of years. And so she deserves to kind of sit back. That's why I feel a lot of pressure actually to do my best 'cause 'Cause she she set a high standard for the way that she dealt with my dad's music and the Beatles stuff. Yeah. Does she check up on you and what you're doing?

Well sh w sh she lives in upstate New York. Yeah. So I see her you know, half the year. Right. But I mean, just in terms of you know, does she will she scrutinize all this or no?

Um, no, she's not involved anymore. You know, she I you know, I Yeah, okay. I she's not the kind of person who can share control. She's like my girlfriend. You know, it's like either I do it or we or she does it, but we don't you know, it's it's hard to They're independent ladies.

Let's put it that way. Yeah. You've got to admire that. Yeah. Yeah.

My dad asked my mom if she would be, you know, his his writing partner. Yeah. And she said, no, I I work alone. Yeah. So they did eventually do Double Fantasy together, but they um they wrote their songs separately.

Yeah. And I think, you know, that's just she's a she's a singular woman and she she's always been Very singular, and I think my dad. Was less so. He had Paul to write with. And then he was hoping that my mom would kind of be a writing partner.

And I just think it's really funny that there's probably only one person in the world who would turn down John Lennon as a writing partner, and that's my mom. Yeah. That's probably why he liked her. Yeah, exactly.

No, that's exactly right. Yeah. You know that's probably the sexiest thing is to not, you know, buy into the Kind of. Whatever mythology of who he was, she just, you know, she was his equal. Always, and I think that was very appealing to him.

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So you've got this new project next year. Musically, where are you going these days?

Well, I actually did This is. Yeah. This sounds goofy in this context, but I did a jazz album. You know what? I listened to this.

Thank you. Gorgeous. Thank you. I was like, I could put this on and just have it in the house all day. That's very sweet.

Yeah. Yeah, so that album's called Asterisms, and it's on a label called SATIC or SATIC. Yeah. T-Z-A-D-I-K. And that label is run by.

A really brilliant guy who's a friend of mine, John Zorn, who in the New York jazz scene, he's just a legend for his generation. And so for him to ask me to do an instrumental album on his label was a really big deal for me personally. And it was honestly, you know, it's it's it's not a pop record, so it was maybe less noticed than some of my other work. But for me, it was a monumental Achievement actually, because he's such a hero to me, and I grew up so influenced by. By his records.

So, for him to ask me to do a quote-unquote jazz, I mean, it's not really jazz, but you know, it's an instrumental, experimental record, it was a big deal for me.

So, I felt actually very. Much like I'd sort of made it actually, you know, in a sense. Yeah. Yeah. That's is that Is that a genre you'd wanted to work in, or was it just almost like he just put it on the table and you suddenly like, I'm going to do it?

No, I mean, John and I had actually worked together on lots of different projects over the years. I think it's because my mom is an experimental avant-garde, you know. wizardess that I um I've always been interested in experimental music. And John Zorn, you know, he's he's known as a jazz guy, but he's very experimental, avant-garde. And so I played with him at this place called the Knitting Factory back in the day.

I've jammed there with Tonic, this other kind of experimental place. And I do shows at the Stone, which is at the New School. Yes. And the Stone is his venue.

So he kind of curates the music.

So I've recorded with him and Laurie Anderson, people like that. Not the kind of music that's on pop radio, you'd say. But still stuff that has really meant a lot to me over the years. Yeah. And obviously music you want to make.

Yeah, I mean look I I make no apologies. My mother's yoga owner, she used to make music with John Cage, so I like to do all sorts of stuff. Um And I'm very lucky that you know. Isn't that what an artist is supposed to be? Sure, but you know, I have nothing against someone who just plays blues music all day, but I'm lucky enough that I've had.

An exposure to lots of different things, and a career that has allowed me to. Do whatever I want.

So, you know, I have a lot of fun. You know, I've worked on hip-hop records, you know, I've worked on psych records and And I've worked with John Zorn, so and I think um You know, I appreciate the fact that I'm in a position that I'm able to do that. And it's really fun. Is it something you need to do in some way, do you think? Yeah, that's interesting.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I come from a family of artists, and I do think I was raised. in a culture of believing that you know, expressing yourself artistically is is essential. to survival. Not, I'm sure a lot of people don't see it that way, but that's how I was raised.

So for me, it's just like. as natural as anything else. you know, breathing or eating or sleeping. You know, making art is sort of A fundamental Force in the physics of my life, I guess you could say. Yeah.

You did make a record recently with Zach Starkey and with. With James McCartney. Yes. We do have a song that we've been working on together. And um but no one's actually heard the song.

I think a lot of people think they did, but they heard a tiny little Instagram clip. And hopefully, you know, we'll finish it off and put it out. And yeah, look, we're friends. I think people are surprised that that the Beatles kids are so close. And I'm not sure why that is.

Maybe I think there's an assumption that maybe because. We're all Beatles kids that we'd have some kind of Animosity or competitiveness or something, but that's just not the case. It's not the case between my brother and I. We're very close. Danny and I have always really loved each other.

And I love James. I think he's a brilliant. Musician, and you know, I've known him since we were kids. We jammed when he was. 12 or something.

You know, I was a little older. Has has anyone ever like offered you a gig to all play together. Has anyone offered us a gig? You know, I'm sure we get a lot of offers. to do like a Beatles uh remake or something.

Sure. ask for that a lot, but I do think that would be ridiculous. But the reason Zach and James and I made a song together is not because we're trying to redo the Beatles, it's just because we like each other. I'm a fan of Zach's work, I'm a fan of James's work, and you know, we're friends and I work with a lot of people. Happy to work on writing songs with them.

You know, it's fun. I did put out a song that I co-wrote with James on his last solo record. It was called Primrose Hill. It's really pretty. And, you know.

I have no hesitation to work with him. It means a lot to kind of write a song with him because he's. You know, he's my dad's best friend's son, and he's a great songwriter.

So there's no reason for me not to do that. What about you and Jules?

Okay. Julie and I have spoken about working before. We've had some ideas about it. Um Honestly, I think it's a lot about geography. You know, I mean, Julian and I didn't grow up together, and now he lives in France.

And I rarely get over there, you know. But we're not against the idea of doing something together. We have a couple ideas that could work out. But, you know, honestly, he's busier than I am, that guy. He was um He's a very successful musician, you know.

Unlike me, in a way. He's had number one singles and stuff, you know. And so he's very busy. He's putting out records, he's got a charity called White Feather Foundation. And it's photographed.

He's got the photography thing. He's a super busy guy, and so am I.

So it's not like. we have a lot of time, but we're not against it. We've thrown around, we've tossed around some ideas before. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That'd be really cool. Just because I know, you know. How much you guys appreciate each other. Yeah, and look, any of us working together We just, we do it.

Well, if it happens or doesn't happen, it's because we felt like it and it was a natural thing to do. We're not going to do it because of some expectation or to fulfill anyone's expectation of. What we should do. It has to be natural. And the James McCartney song just happened naturally.

I was at his house, we wrote a song. And Zach and I have been friends for a while. He had a tune that he wanted me to work on, and I worked on it. It's pretty simple, you know. It's just totally organic.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. What's the children's book? Basically. Oh, yes, I know. You made it out of the movie, right?

War is over the short film is not just a film, it's a multimedia project, okay?

So we've got a single that has a a vinyl kind of zootrope animation on it. That's really cool. And then we also have simultaneously a children's book version of it. But the children's book is really cool. Penguin Kids put it out and it's completely new artwork.

And it was hand-painted by the guy who did the character design. On the film. Oh, nice.

So it's sort of a triptych. If you really want to complete the immersive experience, you got to watch the film, you got to have the book, and you need the vinyl. That's the only way to fully. Understand the breadth of the story. Yeah.

Good pitch. Thanks. There's no way you could get it from just watching the film. You had me sold. If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs.

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