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This is Jane Pauley. If you're talking about the new Bruce Springsteen biopic, it's Jeremy Allen White, the award-winning actor from the streaming series The Bear. He tells Sunday Morning's Lee Cowan all about it. Were you a fan of Springsteen Growing Up? Yeah.
Stupid question. No, no, not at all. I mean, you know, it's interesting. My parents are around the same age as Bruce, and so the stuff playing around the house You know, when I was young, tended to be more of the stuff that that Bruce mm listened to. You know, it was uh a lot of Sam Cooke.
Um it was Elvis, it was the Beatles, it was the Stones. Um and uh And so it wasn't on in my household that much, but I did grow up in the nineties in Brooklyn. And so His jukebox radio songs were everywhere. And I can't remember a time that I didn't know his name, and I can't remember a time that I didn't know what he looked like. I didn't know his silhouette.
As far back as I can remember, I knew the name Bruce Springsteen. Did you ever see him live? Yeah, I have, yeah, absolutely. Oh, since starting, I had not seen him live before, but the first time we met was in uh was in London. Um and I went to go see him uh perform at Wembley for uh for 90,000 people and I was invited to go to Sound Check.
Um so I was in an empty Wembley which was you know quite an emotional experience knowing that in two hours there were going to be ninety thousand souls filling this now empty space and what did he say to you at first? At first, I talked about my kids and he talked about his grandkids. I think both of us were a little bit nervous, to be honest. You know, I had texted with him a little bit and we'd spoken on the phone. And, you know, I was very nervous to meet, you know, this icon and this rock god.
And I think he was nervous to meet me just because he knew, you know, I was going to be I was a young man that was going to be portraying him in in kind of his his darkest days. And I think it's a you know, a delicate and fragile journey and and that was uh That was just the beginning of it and and you know He was very accommodating and generous and honest right away, but I do think that we needed to start to build some trust, which we did. Just reading what I have about you, I know you like a challenge for a role. Yeah. But I mean, Bruce Springskate, come on.
It's the biggest challenge I've had yet. It's the most, you know, it's the most kind of, I think, afraid I've been, at least in my work, you know, approaching this story and the character of Bruce. Yeah. You didn't jump at it right away, right? No, I definitely took my time.
You know, I was really excited. You know, I'd met our writer-director, Scott Cooper, a couple weeks before. there was any talk of Nebraska or Bruce or this movie. I'd always been a big fan of Scotts and I wanted to do something with him. but I thought we were meeting, you know, generally.
It turns out, you know, he had another idea and he just wanted to kind of feel me out, and he never mentioned the project. But then a month or so later, I got a call. We talked about the album Nebraska a little bit. Then he said he'd like to send me a script. Um and he did.
And I read it. And I loved it and I loved how specific it was and how sort of like intimate uh a a story it was considering, you know, the genre of musical biopics and stuff. Um But I knew that I would need to sing. I knew I would need to learn how to play the guitar. And I knew that I would be coming in between, you know, Bruce Springsteen and and these fans that he's amassed uh you know decade after decade after decade and There's a real purity.
to the relationship between specifically musicians and their audiences and their fans. It's very personal. Um and I didn't wanna interrupt um that relationship in any way or or kind of like tarnish that relationship in any way with my portrayal and And so I had to take a long time. Um I I I don't I don't know. I think, you know, w we've been very lucky to have Bruce, you know, behind us, you know, making this this film.
He was around for a lot of the process and And um Everybody's got their own idea of Bruce Springsteen. And I think at the beginning I was approaching it like How am I going to make everybody happy? And very quickly, or maybe not quickly enough, but at a certain point, I realized. You know, that's a fool's errand. It's an impossibility.
And what I really need to do is kind of look past Bruce Springsteen and try to find this man who's a musician. uh who's coming home after touring a very uh successful record, born to run. Um and uh and he's searching for some peace and and he he kind of finds something else, you know. Was there a moment that you thought to yourself, yeah, I got this, I can do this? No, I don't think so.
You know, I mean, it was, yeah, like uh. There were moments where I found confidence, absolutely, you know, and there were moments that I felt very proud of what I was doing. But you know Uh I just I respected Bruce so much. Um and idolized Bruce so much. as I was preparing to do this film and as I was getting to know him, And that respect only grew more and more and more and the responsibility and that burden became heavier and heavier.
And that turned into like a very strong you know, work ethic for me. But Hmm. But I always wanted more. I wanted more time. I wanted to go deeper.
And uh and the thing with with this medium is, you know, once you make it and you put it out there, that's, you know. That's final, you know? Um But I'm glad I never got quite comfortable because I think every night I would go home and I would get back to work. And uh, and I would wake up with my heart racing, uh, and just with nerves, yeah, of course, and and wanting to get right back to set. I've talked to uh I I did a film with um Austin Butler recently who played played Elvis and and we joked about that feeling in the morning.
He was like uh I didn't drink any coffee when I was doing that movie and I said I didn't have to drink any coffee either because you wake up and uh and it hits you where you're at and you're you're ready to go, you know. How did you work with a voice coach? How did... How did your voice coach kind of describe Springsteen's voice. Or did he?
No, I mean that you know, I think again in in the beginning my focus was on these kind of external ideas. Bruce, I was like, well, how do I look more like Bruce? How do I sound more like Bruce? And, you know, I was concerning myself, I think, in the beginning with all the wrong things. And my vocal coach actually, you know, we were approaching the music and seeing the songs, and my focus was so much on how do I sound like Bruce Springsteen?
I just need to sound more like Bruce Springsteen. And Eric Vitro, my coach. was like slow it Slow it down. Um What kind of story are you telling? What are you singing about?
What does that mean to you, Jeremy? Can you find the honesty in these lyrics? Can you make them your own? If you can sing these lyrics with some honesty, they'll connect.
Sounding like Bruce comes later. Let's start here.
So, no. Like in its immediacy and in the beginning, I think, you know. focusing on sort of the results or the external factors were were kind of a problem. More the performative stuff, not the problem. Yeah, I think we had to go from um from the inside out.
Or or that's where I found my comfort at least, starting on the inside and and going out, yeah. When um When you were... I heard you were listening to his audiobook of his biography kind of all the time, just so you kind of had his. Voice in the ether as much as he can. Yeah, yeah.
I would listen to it on on my runs. I would listen to it while I was m making breakfast. I listened to it all the time. Not just to have his voice in my ear, but It's a pretty remarkable biography, you know. Um his recall is uh astounding.
Um these moments from uh his childhood uh up until very recent. Um you know it's it's it's an incredible uh It's an incredible telling and and incredible life lived. Um but um but yeah, that was uh That was a very uh uh helpful, obviously, you know, piece of uh piece of work in in getting ready for this. When I saw you singing uh Born to run, it f- It feels like for anybody, probably including Bruce, that that's like pushing a freight train up a hill by yourself. I mean, it just seems like it's.
Physically exhausting to sing that song. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is, it is, and um. But that's what I wanted to find. And it's funny, you know.
I knew if I could get one thing right in the performance aspect of Bruce. Like, I've seen Bruce perform live. I've watched a lot of footage of Bruce, and you know, if you're gonna do one thing to get it right. Um you have to perform to the point of exhaustion, because he continues until he cannot go any longer. And so I remember on those days when I had to perform live, I had this idea that, you know, Um I was gonna have too much endurance.
So I would bring my jump rope, I would bring all these things to in-between performances to try to exhaust myself while they were setting up new camera angles and stuff. And then I very quickly realized that jump rope was not necessary whatsoever. Just kind of moving, exerting energy the way he does, singing the way that he does. Uh that did the trick. Yeah.
John. You say that the more you sang, the more songs that you sang, the closer to him you felt. Yes. Was there one in particular? Um Yeah, my father's house, I think, you know.
I um I went to Nashville, Tennessee, and we recorded at uh at RCA. um which is a very you know storied uh recording studio. It's where Elvis recorded the sun record and um And uh that was a big inspiration to to Bruce and specifically, you know, the the album of uh of Nebraska. And with my father's house in particular, I think I discovered what a lot of this movie is about. There's many themes that are going on in this movie, but for me, one of the truest is it's about a father and son, and it's about a longing for a connection and a fear that that connection might never be found, you know.
And that's the one that really does kind of sum up the whole. Yeah, certainly when I was singing that song, absolutely. Playing guitar, were you actually playing the chords or were you just kind of mimicking the chords? I was playing. If you see me playing in.
Colt's neck in the house. Yeah. That's me playing. Um. And then I played everything on stage.
But you're hearing. Uh Someone else, I'm I'm sure. But all the stuff where I'm alone and acoustic, that's me on guitar. And you'd never played guitar before, yeah? No, I'd never played guitar before.
Yeah. You think you'll keep it up? No, I don't know. Um it's interesting. I you know, I I got together with this really wonderful uh guitar teacher, you know, J D and and we became very close and um he's out of Nashville.
We get together five times a week and uh and we work together. And the first time we met, You know, I went, Hey, it's very nice to meet you. You know, I'm so excited, you know, I get to learn how to play the guitar with a master. And he said, we don't have time to learn how to play the guitar. We're going to learn how to play these five Bruce Springsteen songs.
So my approach to the guitar was sort of different. It was based in only the chords necessary for the songs that I had to learn.
So if I look at anything else or try to play anything else, it's gibberish to me. I didn't learn how to play the guitar. I learned how to play Bruce Springsteen. Bruce seemed to have faith. I shouldn't call him Bruce.
Bruce Springsteen seemed to have faith. all along that you could do this. Why do you think he had that fish? Um The Bruce. I mean Uh when we've spoken about it.
Um He had a lot of faith, he had a lot of trust in Scott. um and he'd seen me perform Uh And I think What was important to Bruce is to was to hire an actor who I think Could Internalize what was going on with him during this time in his life. And Uh these are his words, you know, trying to find an actor who who um could tell a story just with their face kind of in silence and expression. and Bruce had had seen my work and thought that I would be fitting if you're spending a lot of time with a man alone in a room. You know, why not let that man be Jeremy White and why not be looking at his face?
You know, I think I read somewhere where he said he saw. Your performance in the bear, and just thought you kind of had the emotional complexity to. portray something this deep yeah delicate yeah yeah. Which is pretty cool to just even think that Bruce Springsteen was watching. I didn't know he had any idea who I was.
I mean, before. Yeah, of course. Yeah, no, I mean, I. I I spoke to Scott. A lot about the movie.
And then about a week after I was considering He said, Bruce really wants you to do this. And I said, what? And he said, did I not tell you that before? I said, no. And he said, yeah, he wants you to do it.
And then I was kind of like, all right, well, I'm not going to stand in the main floor. Yeah. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview. after this break. When it comes to acting, I think almost every interview that I've ever seen you do You talk about one drama teacher.
In particular, that really had an impact on you. Yeah, yeah. What was it about? What was it about him? Or hurt.
I can't remember, it was a hurt. It was John yeah, John McEniny, I think, is probably the the teacher I spoke about most, and that was my middle school drama teacher. And the first time I ever acted was in his classroom, seventh grade. And I think what that was is, you know, uh as a young person No, I'll speak for myself. Wh when I was a young person, um I uh It was very hard for me to focus and find real presence, you know.
And I remember being in his black box classroom and getting in that room for the first time and getting up in front of the group and performing and I felt a sense of peace and presence and focus I'd never felt before. And John Mackin and he He he treated myself and my classmates as a As adults, you know, in a really wonderful way, where, you know, if we had a passion for this thing, it was respected. And I think prior to that, you know, as a kid, You don't often get that from the adults in your life. Um and He gave me permission, I think, to pursue this thing. He gave me faith.
Um that I was good at it um and that it was a worthy pursuit. Um and uh And and he took it seriously. You know, even though he was he was training very young kids, he took it very seriously. And I thought, uh How noble, you know, to take this thing as seriously as he did. You started doing Dance, right?
Tap and ballet. Was dancing what you thought you were going to pursue instead of acting? Yeah, I don't know if I'd thought about it in any sense of a profession or anything like that. But yeah, I would have been happy continuing to do it throughout middle school and maybe high school, yeah.
So you kind of fell into acting in a way. Yeah, but it was around that. Yeah, my parents met um my parents were actors. Uh they lived on the Upper West Side um and they met uh you know, my my my dad saw my mom on stage and uh ran out at intermission and got her flowers um and handed them to her afterwards and and they started seeing each other and and they were in acting classes together and they did theater together and And they got pregnant with me and they moved to Brooklyn and they had to kind of get real jobs to support a family. But the passion was always there.
So I grew up, you know, having a respect for the performing arts, whether it be acting, dance, you know, whatever it is.
So I was aware of that world. I had an interest in that world. Did your parents can... kind of encourage you to go into acting or I think in the beginning they thought it was just Fun, which it was, and it is, you know, when you're a 12-year-old and you're taking acting in middle school, the stakes aren't that high. But I, uh you know, m mister McEniny He would send me out, he'd go on Backstage.
It wasn't.com at the time, I guess it was actually Backstage, which is where you would find open casting calls where anybody can go. And um he would find auditions for me to go to where like 300 kids will show up that don't have representation. and I got my first job. It was a like off, off, off Broadway play called The Present. Um and I did this play in a very small black box on the Upper West Side.
and my parents came to see it. And I do remember seeing them after that show. And then being like you're wow that was actually you're pretty good at this um and uh And if you love it, like we're We're behind you. And I did. And I continued and then uh you know it got more and more Serious as we went along.
I still don't know if I was thinking about it as a profession, but I certainly wanted to continue to explore it. Yeah. Sounds like that we weren't. Just going to audition after audition, you were you were kind of looking for certain Thinked. You weren't just looking for a job.
Yeah, I mean I didn't ne yeah, you know, I I was very lucky, you know, I was I was a kid, so um You know, I uh I didn't have to take just any any job and and I was particular even at a at a young age and I think my first agents were uh kind of confused and upset with me for kind of like having a a standard for what I would go audition for. You know, I'd never done anything before and I was 13 and they were like, just go on the audition, you know. Um but um But I didn't because I didn't have to. I didn't have to support myself yet. We all know what the bear has become now, and congratulations on all that.
It's so great. But early on, it strikes me that if you were just to read the script, it was kind of. Just a story about a sandwich shop. It was a hard thing to explain. Yeah, absolutely.
I remember, I mean, I read the script and I really enjoyed the script and I saw the dynamics, and once I started to understand the culture of kitchens and stuff, everything. Became a lot more interesting. Um but yes, I remember saying yes to that job and being excited about it. But then I remember trying to explain to friends what it was about. And it sounded something like that, you know.
Yes, this kid comes back. He's a chef and he's opening a sandwich shop. And I saw my friends trying to be nice and say, oh, that sounds great, you know. But I could tell that they were a little concerned about what I was doing next. But um But yeah, I mean that world is so rich.
uh Chris Dorr and Joanna Carlo, they they write such um such deep and and and complex characters and and now that we've gotten going, you know, I mean I just feel so lucky to act with those actors, and I'm a fan of all of them as performers. And I love all of them as people, so I'm very lucky there. Much like with this, you did so much research. You went to culinary school, you worked in an actual restaurant. What were you.
What were you hoping to get out of that level of research? Just to get it right, I guess. Absolutely, trying to get it right and trying to look like, you know, I knew what I was doing and they're very specific. Yeah, they're very specific and exacting. Yeah, I wanted it to look right.
But I also wanted to understand the day in, day out. I don't think I had an understanding of quite how demanding that world is, especially at the level in which Carmy is used to operating in these restaurants in New York and Copenhagen. Which kind of sounds like That was sort of the same point at about the same age you are that Bruce found himself in, right? Eeeeee. Yes, a lot of noise going around.
Yes, oh absolutely. I mean, Bruce has gone on on record and said, you know. I have no problem performing for three hours on stage. That's easy for me. I know exactly who I am on stage.
You know, it's the other twenty-one hours that I have trouble with. Yeah. Hmm. The backdrop of this is obviously the the dark times that that he was going through. Did you know any of that before you really took a deep dive into his biography?
I mean I was familiar enough with his music that You know, I understood his depth. Um And I understood, you know, w we're dealing with a man who's looked over the edge before, absolutely. Um But no. I I didn't have uh a knowledge of of this period in his life. Um um I I didn't have a knowledge of uh of his journey to uh to to therapy.
Um I didn't have knowledge of his his relationship with with John Landau. Um no. What kind of I mean he was very involved and you guys would have lots of conversations about it. What kind of questions were you? asking him.
I'm sure it's kind of touchy at some point. Yeah, I mean I was just trying to get as specific as I was like I mean, there was a lot on the page, and there was a lot in Warren's book as well. I felt like I had like the template and I I understood the environment and there's so much in his music. But I wanted to get really specific on some things and I asked him, what's that panic about? You know, what is that fear inside of you?
What's driving you down in the spiral, in this period? And he said, um No, I I had this moment where I felt like an outsider and an observer. you know, in my own life. and felt like a prison. And I wasn't sure if I'd ever be able to find real um Presence again.
or control in my own life. He shared uh many things. like that and um you know, he was very um very honest uh throughout and I'm very very grateful, yeah, for his honesty. Have you ever struggled? Yeah, of course.
I mean, I find every day I, you know, I was very. When he told me about that, that moment, that feeling of being an observer of your own life, that was very familiar to me, you know, and it was something I had been dealing with fairly Presently, you know, at the time. Just after the success of the bear and all that, or before? I think it was something that, you know. Um I've always struggled with maybe more times than others, but about just really being present and not letting my mind sort of uh uh wander off or or uh uh uh Living in the future, you know, future tripping is what you might call it, you know.
I was always getting ahead of myself. I had a very hard time being in the present. Bruce had a very hard time. He wasn't future tripping. He was always living in the past.
Um but um But yeah, I mean, I I have like tools in my every day. I have in place where I'm always trying to find more, you know groundedness and um and presence uh in life.
So yes, when when Bruce told me that story I thought, Oh, um Here's the tether. He doesn't know about it yet, but But this is a familiar feeling. I know this feeling. Um you know I know that view looking over the edge. Um and uh and I think I can um I can reach that place, you know, for for this film, 'cause I think it was necessary.
But, like he said, some of those dark times I imagine are the fuel in some ways for creativity. Yeah, absolutely. Is that the same with you? I think it can be. Yeah, if you've got the right outlet.
If you've got the right outlet. Uh if you're in the right place. I mean, you know. Bruce did get Nebraska through this period. But then they did it.
He recorded it. They got it on vinyl. It was a success. That's when his depression torpedoed.
So The correlation of being able to turn your pain into art It's not a solution, you know. You're not treating the wound necessarily. It's a bit of a band-aid on a bullet hole situation, I think, sometimes.
So it was It was after Nebraska came out that It wasn't after it came out, but it was after he was successful, able to master it, get it on vinyl. He's gone through that whole journey already before he goes on the road trip and before he gets into therapy, you know.
So it's that period that it really got. That's when he got his darkest. Yeah, absolutely. Well, he said that, like, like you, he. It was still better.
On the road than being at home, he felt better performing than not performing. Yeah, absolutely. That said though, because of your success, you're now kind of in the club of a lot of the Actors and performers that you grew up watching and idolized, in a way. You get to kind of rub elbows with some of those folks. I've gotten to meet a lot of people I admire, yeah, absolutely.
What's that like? You know, it's wonderful. I I you know, I remember you know, when I was first being invited to some of these, you know, award shows and and stuff like that for uh for the bear and um And And yeah, i it it being really um remarkable Yeah. and uh and and and daunting um you know To be standing in front of so many that you've idolized for so long. And these are really moments that you've you've dreamt about or I've dreamt about since I was I was a kid to be a kind of part of this um This club You know, I really respect um these performers um and just the fact that they um never mind, you know, or or supportive of the work that I'm doing, but even have any idea who I am, um Uh it's still kind of like uh uh pinch me, you know.
And getting up and having Not having, but having the luxury of winning awards.
Now you gotta talk in front of all these guys. I mean, my goodness, the five-you know, the first award I won was Golden Globe for the Bear. I do not remember my time up on that stage. I really don't. People say that, and I thought it was always kind of like nonsense.
I don't remember the walk up. I don't remember standing on that stage. I don't remember what I said. I remember kind of coming to backstage with the statue in my hand. I was in shock.
Yeah. Where do you keep them all? Uh-huh. I uh I have a little like uh I have a little room off my house that's like uh, you know, like a little uh little office kind of and they're just in a in a corner over there. Do kids get those?
Do they think that's like a big deal? Yeah, they would get really excited, you know, they'd always watch um they'd always watch the award shows and uh and uh as he, my oldest, would call the awards a Trophy winners' cups. Daddy won another Trophy Winner's Cup. Um And yeah, they like them. They get a kick out of it.
But they also are very honest and they're just like, why do you get all these things? Why doesn't everybody get all these things? More people should. Do you uh do you now sort of have to or try to avoid playing the expectations game now. For your next project.
Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I'm content. I've done enough. Truly, like, I feel I still want to work. I mean, this is what I love to do, and longevity has always been kind of the goal for me. I want to continue on.
But uh awards and uh any critical successes and stuff like that, um Um you know. Uh the ride is fun, um but I'm you know I'm filled up. I just want to work with people I admire and be able to keep doing what I love to do. That's what's important to me.
So if all the fame and success ended After this film You'd feel like it's a little bit of a message. Great. I'm Jane Pauley. Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday morning on the free Odyssey app.
or wherever you get your podcasts. The secret's out. May I speak freely? Thank you very much. The Naked God is now streaming on Paramount Plus.
I've seen it a hundred times. It's a return to comedic glory. A little lower. A return to comedic glory. That's awesome.
The Naked God of PG-13 now streaming on Paramount Plus.
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