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And make no mistake, she's hot. Doja Cat is talking with Sunday Mornings Michelle Miller. Just for the record, state and spell your name.
Okay. Uh, Amala. Do I say Doja Cat? I do. Of course I do.
Well, what do you want me to call you? Call me. Doja. Doja. Yes.
Or doja. Why did you feel, and it seems as almost that you knew. That an alias was the way to go. Why so? Um I think that I wanted to separate myself from my work.
And It just felt safer to me. To do that. like being separate from it would give me Somewhere to sort of escape to. Like when I wanted to make music, I didn't have to necessarily like.
Okay. be myself almost. Like I could talk about being cheated on while I'm not being cheated on, or I could talk about You know, when I'm writing, I'm writing about situations in general. I'm not really. Um Always Pulling from my personal life.
That I find that fascinating because not many artists of a certain age. Understand that. Because a lot of people do draw from their personal life. They pour it into the page, they pour it into their writing. But to be intentional about not doing that, there's that.
That took something special out of you. How did you know? Um I don't know, I mean I didn't know. And I don't know. I just like I f it just felt like uh something I had to do.
In that moment. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I always wanted to like create different themes and characters throughout, you know, even elementary, middle school. Like, I would dress up. as certain things.
Remember I came into class one time dressed up as Santa Claus in like ele elementary school. I think it was like s first grade or something. I don't know. But like I'm always wanting to like create a character, create Some sort of narrative and Scene and world. Fantasy.
World building.
So, this room has some special meaning. I mean, you spend some time here. Yeah. This is Electric Lady Studios. I love that name.
Yeah, it's a good name. Where where did you spend your time? On that couch and zero percent here in front of the uh control boards. I don't know how any of this works. I know each of these little things here are a track, but that's as far as my knowledge goes.
But I mean,. Take me from this to when you first start. I mean, you were doing it all. Yeah, so I came in here after I had made, I made a couple songs in LA. And then I came in here and started working with Jack Antonoff.
It was just super Easy to kind of get into my element here. Like, I remember, I feel like the first song that we made was Could have been one more time. Um It could have been stranger, I'm not sure, but I know like It was immediate. Like, it just felt very comfortable working here. I love that, like, this upstairs area is the best area.
Because you get the outdoors. There's a basement area, which is like iconic. A lot of artists from the past have worked down there that are like legends. And so it's incredible, but you kind of get a stairwell, but that's and that's fine, at least there's something. But I love being up here because you get some sunlight and We hang out on the, you know.
patio and stuff like that and so It's been nice. Did you draw from the energy of those who came before? It feels, I mean. Every time I go in the bathroom, which is like lined with faces of like legends, I'm sitting there and I'm like peeing and I'm like... Goodness be me.
I don't know. Maybe not. But it's a very cool studio. And yeah, Jimi Hendrix was. Mm.
I think it was Jimi Hendrix who worked here and um I don't want to mess it up. I was going to say another artist, but I'm not sure exactly. Go ahead. I just know Jimmy was here. It could have been Lenny Kravitz.
I don't know. Was Lenny Kravitz here? I don't know if you're here.
Somebody has lived here.
Somebody lived here. It was Jimmy for sure. Worked here, but someone lived here. And Taylor? Yeah.
Yeah. Okay, I just have to go here because you brought it up. What is it about you and sharing your Urinary track. Oh. Yeah.
I mean, the Grammy moment was so... Oh, yeah. It's a pattern, isn't it? Oh, my gosh. What was that?
Were you nervous? Were you... I overshare. I'm a bit of an oversharer. I think that I just don't have enough shame.
And maybe, yeah, it could have been that. I just, I wanted to be honest. And I don't know. Mm-hmm. They they my friends used to say, Michelle, Filter.
Yeah. Filter. Yeah. I mean, it sometimes it's like it doesn't matter because it's like Everybody pees, right? Yeah.
If you overshare certain things like trauma dumping in certain situations, maybe isn't helpful to you in every instance, but. you know, it it gives people an idea of like what you don't care about hearing. Like I just I connect with people in that way when I'm like, I have to go take a piss. You know, then they're like, oh, okay, she's like one of those where she's like gonna tell me she has to go take a piss. And she's going to tell me everything.
I don't know. I'm an open book. You feel that way. What comes in, I've looked, I've watched, I've listened. And I have to say, you have such a wide range.
in terms of what you cover. Um And you have a wide range in terms of what you share. Um. And before I kind of go into that, because it's like this is a free-flowing conversation, but I sense that that imagination. can take you anywhere.
I don't know how you start. Like How does that process flow for you? Because I know you're more so into, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's the music that drives you, not so much the lyrics of the moment. Yeah, it's not always lyrics. I think that I start off with sort of mumbles every time I write, but not every time.
There's some times where. There's things I really want to talk about. And for this album, it it... kind of has been that way. I've been trying to follow a recipe.
Um of like staying Um not confined, what's the word, but more cohesive and and wanting to like talk about love in all of its aspects. loving others, being in a relationship, and also your relationship with yourself. And I think music is just always, it's a lot of that, you know? We don't talk about. blowing bubblegum, bubbles and and flying kites.
like, um, what's that one place? What's that one band? Um from the 70s. Uh free design. Like, that's really cool music because it doesn't talk about that all the time.
But I do, I'm just, I love to talk about love. I love to talk about. Um you know relationships and dynamics and things like that. And this is kind of that You know.
So the album is called It's called The Y V. It means life in French and it evolved from. Yeah. Two MFV. Yeah.
All that. Uh So I think It it Came from the number five.
So I wanted to get a five tatted on me, and instead I. chose Roman numerals. And I liked the three Vs a lot, and it reminded me of Scarlet in the way it kind of like came off the back of. We had like an upside-down A for Amala, but it was also the. Um What is that?
From The scarlet letter. It's the upside down A, or like a red A, or something like that. And so I wanted to kind of it morph that into V, what's a word that starts with a V? And then I chose V in French because That means life and I feel like you can't have life without love. You can't create life.
You can't bring life into a room without there being love. Also just like quite literally. You can't make life without making love. Hey. And so I really liked the idea of of that.
And I also liked the way the word looks, just that beautiful V and then the I, the dot and the E and it swishes. And I have it in um in cursive on my rib cage. It's it's like the main thing for the whole rollout. We'll have more from our Sunday morning extended interview. After this break.
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Are you happy with everything you make? Not all the time. But I'm happy with it in the moment, and then it's the way that I grow with it. That has always been a bit of a challenge or a learning. process Um it it takes a while for me to like it's weird with say so and kiss me more and things like that.
I mean more so say so. Um that was like my number one song, that my first number one ever. Um and I kind of like hated it a little bit for like a while. Um because it was just always knocking at my ear and hearing it in the car, I was like, Oh, this is great, but I've heard this now one million times. And I I love to change my my tune and my vibe a lot.
So it's like sticking to something for what felt like forever just felt, you know. Like a lot. What's it like for you on tour when you're singing those songs over and over again? Yeah, and over again. Again, it's like it just is like constant.
you know, like the same thing every day, and I I want To kind of change my vibe, but like it's taken till kind of the beginning of this next, this album, be to like appreciate my older stuff. I think it was a return to that. Um 'cause Scarlet was sort of like this Like uh just a a release of energy that Um Was very different from all of that. And so I just, I feel like I'm just in a place where I want to do what I know. And I know that those first two albums, well, the first three, were kind of all.
coinciding with each other. And so V feels like an evolved version of all of those things.
So for you, what is the relationship between creativity and virality? Um So It's interesting because What was my answer? It was It's like, of course, I want to world build. And I think that it takes an immense amount of creativity to world build with not that much. Shh shh money.
I'm just gonna say it. And I think that There's sometimes like I don't do songs with the intention of them getting big. I think I tend to lean into melodies that.
Sounds good. quite pop. And I'm inspired by a lot of pop artists from the past.
So I think that it tends to just naturally flow in that way. Uh But I get mad at my biggest songs, I think. And it's been a pattern. was not the biggest fan of Sayso after Sayso came out and then paint the town red. I you can ask all my managers They were like, this is our favorite song and I'm like...
Yeah, but what about Skull and Bones? What about Shocho? What about this one? What about... And it's just something that like I when I know something is going to be big, I think There's a Um I get triggered.
There's like a bit of fear behind that because I know what that comes with. And so I tend to like... I'm like, yeah, that song sounds like it would play in a J C Penny.
Okay, all right. But I'm not mad at that because it makes me money and that I can use to put forward into my vision visually. And I I am a visual artist and so It gives me freedom to world build. And I love making the music. It's after I make the music that I'm like, all right, I'm moving on.
You have a real appreciation for the melody, the cadence, the beat. Yeah. And you spoke of it before. It's like what comes out of you, and you wanting to put the Put the music in the forefront. Yeah.
And the words. Right.
Song is I tend to speak of my music in the sense of like I like this because it sounds good, not because it's speaking to me lyrically, and I think that's how I attach to music in ways. Yeah. I am a lyricist and at times I'm a great lyricist. Um And then at times, I don't know what I'm saying, I just, I put it there because it feels right. and then maybe I regret it later.
But I love I love to just love what I'm hearing and not sit and expect something or expect a message or expect something profound. I think when I go into music, like listening to other people's music that way, I don't get much out of it. Um Those should always come by surprise. And there's very few and far between writers who Uh can do that. I mean, I just, yeah, it's all about how it sounds to me.
And I wanted for this project to have more instruments. And so we worked with a lot of saxophone and a lot of other things. I don't even know what they're called. But Jack Antonoff is really great when it comes to sourcing musicians Uh so this this was this was that.
So, I mean, like, so many people want to pigeonhole artists, and I just find this generation is breaking the mold on that. I mean, There's so many categories you hit. And when you think of that, what is it about your generation? I think that Coming out of like the 90s. I think that there was a hope for the future.
And artists were doing. Everything. and playing a lot with irony. And I think that It's just gotten more and more ironic over the years. Rappers wearing skirts and Pop Pop people wearing, like rappers wearing skirts is a big one, and dresses, like that was, and being in touch with their feminine side.
And I think that that irony is what catapulted My generation and generations to come forward is people who are who are not. you know, following a path that is expected for them. Um I think It's more than just like being androgynous and things like that. But that's I mean in the eighties that was that was the thing. You know, it was like Prince was on top.
You know, he's a ma. I mean, he still is. I mean, it's, it's. Like embracing parts of yourself That you know are real and true. Uh without being apologetic.
I think that's what allowed people to be more experimental and I feel like that's what shaped me in a way. Where I feel like there are no barriers.
So, rap pie. Top. jazz, R and B. Is there a genre that that does Not defining you. Oh, sorry.
Oh, you're rough. No, go there, girl. What won't you do? Country.
Okay. I just have a feeling that at some point in time you're gonna go there and I'm gonna come back and say, ah. Remember that one time? Yeah. So, not country, but if there was one that you would say, best reflects your music.
What would it be? I really think I think pop. I think I'm a rapper that makes pop music. Why why does pop get such a bad rap? Oh, because it's popular.
I think anything that does It doesn't pop does root for the underdog. But at the end of the day, it's popular and it's pop music. You can make pop music about the underdog. I think people want to feel. Like they can relate to something, and pop can be so out of like this reality.
I mean, it's like. It's glam, it's camp, it's, you know, and it's going to be redefined in the future, but I think like, you know, people look at pop and they're like, like fast fashion or like, you know, I'm at the mall and I'm bored and something like that sometimes. People need that though. People need some sort of plainness. 'Cause life is very chaotic.
Not to say that my music is plain or anyone's music is plain, but it's You know, we need that. We need the contrast between what is edge and what is not edge. Um, and sometimes pop is edgy.
Sometimes pop is camp, like I said.
So Yeah, I feel like I have a scarlet. And also going back to pop music. I think there's a narrative on like Twitter and stuff like that. Where it's like, oh, she's going back to pop music because the other thing didn't work, which doesn't make sense because it felt so good to do that. And we did such an incredible set of tours.
for that project and it just I felt like I won. I felt So good doing all of that. And now I'm back where I know I can thrive. Uh and doing new things with that too. Even.
I I just find people always want to be success. or failure. And the pattern of growth Is never in consideration. That whether it's success or failure, the growth that happens in those moments or in the in-between. Yeah.
It's like you have to like love your spirit, love on yourself. in order to Grow at all, and sometimes that love means to either step back or try something new that may not work. or people might not understand. and you have to listen to yourself. Not what's happening outside.
and the what people are demanding of you. And so. you know. It's important. This has been so fun.
I loved this. This was great. Wonderful. It really was. I'm Jane Pauley.
Thank you for listening. And for more of our extended interviews, follow and listen to Sunday Morning on the free Odyssey app. or wherever you get your podcasts. Culture is my home now. Academy Award nominee Sylvester Stallone stars in the Paramount Plus original series, Tulsa King.
His distillery is a very interesting business. And we gotta know the enemy. From Taylor Sheridan, co-creator of Landman. What are you saying? Hello?
If you think you're gonna take me here It's gonna be really Difficult time. a king. New season now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. Mm.
