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Carolina Journal Radio No. 758: Recent poll highlights growing partisan divide

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
November 27, 2017 12:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 758: Recent poll highlights growing partisan divide

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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November 27, 2017 12:00 am

A recent Elon University poll reveals stark partisan divisions on many of the top political issues of the day. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, highlights some of those key divisions. He explains how those divisions affect poll results for President Trump and top state government leaders. The economy is always changing, but some elements of an economy can remain remarkably consistent over decades – even in the face of major technological transformations. Barak Richman, Duke University professor of law and business administration, has studied one clear example of longstanding economic practices: the diamond district on 47th street in Manhattan. Richman explores the district’s operations in the book Stateless Commerce. It’s rare to hear a Democratic legislator describe North Carolina’s traditional public schools as “failing.” But Rep. Billy Richardson, D-Cumberland, used that word more than once during a recent legislative debate. He wanted his colleagues to consider convening a special legislative session to deal with education issues. You’ll hear Richardson’s comments, along with a response from Rep. Nelson Dollar, R-Wake, the N.C. House’s chief budget writer. The N.C. FreeEnterprise Foundation recently welcomed a new executive director. Jonathan Kappler explains the foundation’s two main tasks: promoting business-friendly state policies and educating North Carolinians about the current state of Tar Heel politics. The opioid crisis has filled headlines in recent months. But Dr. Jeffrey Singer, a Phoenix, Ariz., surgeon and senior fellow at the Cato Institute, says many people misdiagnose the crisis. Singer says misguided government policies are playing a large role in the crisis that’s driving up the number of opioid-related deaths.

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From Cherokee to current tack and the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal review why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martines and I will explore some major issues affecting our state, a Duke University professor places Manhattan's diamond district under the microscope, he explains how that unchanging local economy represents an example of stateless commerce North Carolina legislators spar over one Democrats assessment that the states traditional public schools are failing or why he believes this new leader of the North Carolina free enterprise foundation explains that groups work to promote business friendly state policies that will speak with the doctor and libertarian scholar who says most people misdiagnose the ongoing opioid crisis. Those topics are just ahead.

First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline some positive news for Gov. Roy Cooper in the latest Elon University poll which shows the governor gaining the support nearly half of North Carolina voters after Pres. Donald Trump's approval rating up but still not enough to overcome significant opposition.

Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal. He's been digging into the Elon poll numbers here to talk about what he found Rick welcome back.

I stopped the first Gov. Cooper. He's pretty happy with this lunch thank you Lisa. He's got a 40% approval rate versus 30% disapproval of the poll is a very good number for him, especially when you consider that all the other politicians. They talk about are doing so well. Interesting that the governor seems to be keeping a very low profile in his first year in office and could that be part of it, or is he just stab right on the issues to half of I think his profile is basically when you've heard about Gov. Cooper's what's possible is been job announcements. It's been the time to file lawsuits against the general assembly of the Gen. assembly is a body is not very popular so that's probably not hurting him. Also he has gained some news for being named president trumps opioid task force and so that's given him some additional coverage and so that we all those sorts of things have worked in his favor and affect the state economy is doing well. Almost worse things you governor just more credit than he should probably go well and not knowing what I don't, so this is Lisa riding that wave as well.

That's an interesting transition to the data coming out of the L'Enfant Pres. Donald Trump right because he's faring a little bit better than he did previously. But a lot of people disapprove numbers are really pretty's surprising considering that he did with state in the electoral college fund presidential quote, but he's underwater by 20.37% approval, 57% disapproval.

He was only 34% less than avast people in early October but those are not good numbers, and especially when you consider that the Gov. Cooper has 12 points higher approval rating than the president and that should be some signs of concern for Republicans, and in fact there are Republicans who are concerned about that. One of things I know will be watching in 2018 is whether or not the president makes any appearance in North Carolina and that'll be the indicator. What you think of people are feeling with how he cuts, so to speak right at the ballot box and make a difference to show interesting questions out of the Elon poll about the president to tell us about the question they asked regarding the FBI director Robert Moeller and that possible Russian interference in election. Well it was interesting in that they about more than half of the people surveyed. This was 771, North Carolina registered voters. The breakdown because I've asked about that. The breakdown is pretty much all party lines. So it's 40% Democrat. 30% Republican, 30% of the Phillies, much along the lines of the state party registration, but 52% of the people who were surveyed said they thought that this was a serious matter that the Russian investigation is something that that should be done in the media bring up some serious issues about the present home at 35% said it was just political move that this is something anti-Trump moved by politicians in Washington try to discredit the prince among the Trump supporters when they were asked about this question.

They had some pretty intense feelings like that. This was a big this is something important to the story partisan divide so many issues.

This is one of them roughly from both sides, but roughly 8 in 10 Republicans thought this was politics, roughly 8 and 10 Democrats on a serious breakdown the Trump whole phenomenon in his presidency has been fascinating to watch in terms of media coverage and of course your editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal.

So this is your business, your your industry of journalism and we got a lot of people Rick seem to believe that the media coverage is biased because resident says that's an interesting point is that the president is not popular with people think the media's are giving him a fair shake. So 52%. This poll said that they thought he was giving a biased coverage or other coverage. It was too tough as the present 44% said the coverage was nonbiased.

That is interesting because that's how you're really than his slice of the electorate writers it themselves.

Really ardent Trump support request to be popular just like the other Republicans continue winning the statewide vote for us for the legislature if all votes is Republicans typically get between 50 to 55% of the vote yes Republican dominated general symbols approval ratings, about 30 so you just go figure that the institution itself is very popular, like the president himself popular but the media is really unpopular and so interested is always a data wonder Rick if folks only some folks seem to be the media these days as part of the political process versus the watchdog the way that I was taught in college.

I guess that has a lot to do it.

I think the fact that so many people get media from sources that tend to confirm their perspectives and so people on the center-right tend to watch and say Fox news and more likely to read publications like Breitbart and the like folks and centerleft gravitate toward MSNBC LeSabre. They may or even noticed some was a CNN like and so people do tend to segregate where they get their media and where they get their information and so because of that, there's an awful lot of things called confirmation bias in that process and so yeah it does tend to make people think processed the posters that Elon also asked a question about a very significant foreign policy issue. We all know that North Korea is rattling the saber so to speak out North Carolinians. Think about this possibility of some sort of of conflict with North Korea. The rest do you think you will actually have some sort of new active nuclear weapons used by either the United States or North Korea within the next year and roughly 14 24% said yes 62% said no.

So we have to hope that the 24% are wrong. Yes I may put it another thing that breaks down there to visit baby boomers were the most likely to think nuclear weapons would be used and that's those who disapprove of Pres. Trump are more likely to believe nuclear weapons should be used. Those who approve. So his fans, his fans tend to think that he's not going to be trigger-happy in his opponents think that he may be interesting that the question on on the boomers and and their view of the possibility is that because perhaps that boomers lived through the Soviet Union. Maybe the fact that we lived at the brink of nuclear disaster for the better part of 30 some years now, 40 years, and so that those memories I haven't gone away completely fascinating numbers at the poll also took a look at the view of North Carolina's two US senators that would be Richard Burke and Tom Tillis. How are they doing not very well once again, Sen. Richard Berg, 31% approval rating of 40% disapproval, 27% no.

And then never Tillis. It was 28% approval 41% disapproval and 30% that's fascinating that we have always seen the phenomenon with Sen. Burr that big chunk of North Carolinians really don't have much knowledge of him whatsoever, even though he is a veteran politician kind wonder if Sen. Tillis is going to be suffering from that same situation. I think generally speaking, North Carolina voters have not had real favorable ratings are favorable feelings about the senators for a number of years. We have a central situation show up with Kay Hagan for the terms of goal, the gist of North Carolinians summaries that they like people who don't like him very much fascinating data. It is coming from the latest Elon University poll all the information we been talking about. You can read more about Carolina Rick Henderson editor is much more Carolina Journal radio just government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business. How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina Journal imprint each month and on the web each day at Carolina. you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina Journal radio and print on the air and on the web. You can find the information you back Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy the economy is always changing, but some elements of the economy remain remarkably constant despite all of the surrounding change in our next guest is written a book highlighting one notable example.

The book is titled stateless commerce. The diamond network and the persistence of relational exchange. The author is Barack Richmond Edgar P and Elizabeth C. Bartlett Prof. of Law and business administration at Duke University. Thanks for joining us forever. So were talking as the. The subtitle of the book.

It tells us about the diamond network before we get into what's interesting about this from your perspective.

Tell people who don't know how this is diamond network work in ways they might not have realized well. Any visitor to 47th St. in New York, would instantly see a scene that is very different from the rest of New York.

So we see an organizational structure a distribution chain that at its face is remarkably different from what we have come to associate with modern commerce and what we are seeing on 47th St. is a network of intermediaries and diamonds of course are mined from the ground. We have large companies, most notably DeBeers, that then takes these diamonds from the ground and distributes them to this network of intermediaries and what were seeing on 47th St. it are the intermediaries that take the rough stones sort them polish them sort them again polish them and then ultimately sell them to the people who make jewelry, diamond jewelry and this network of intermediaries is these are not the wholesalers that sell things to Walmart. These are not the the utilizers of modern technology of modern commerce. What we see here are family businesses and individuals who have been in the industry for a long time have their ancestors of an industry for a long time and they try diamonds. They try diamonds much like in most premodern societies people were trading grapefruits and if we look at this business compared to others. This is substantially different from what happens in much of the rest of the economy is in it so it's different. It is substantially different.

A number different ways and again the best way to illustrate how different it is, is simply by looking at it looks different, you see a a chaos of a bizarre economy was bizarre with two is you see the predominance of ethnic networks.

Individuals walking along 47th St. are the people who dominate this segment of the industry. They are Orthodox Jews.

They are pollen for a James is an ethnic minority in India. These are central Asian networks. These are foreign and Lebanese networks, and they're the ones who buy and sell diamonds polish the diamonds and navigate the global network we are chatting with Duke Prof. Barack Richmond nailed many of us may see this if we go to 47th St. say it's kind of interesting. You as a professor, take a look at it and say what event there's there's more to this story.

Tell us why this was something worthy of describing in this book called stateless, exactly. So the, the, the title stateless commerce is derived from the notion that whenever there is a transaction there needs to be some sense of governance and its just breaking it down. If somebody buy something on credit and credit sales are economically desirable, no matter what industry you are, no matter what time. Urine. But if someone is going to give your product and expect you to pay down the road there has to be some source of assurance some source of governance to make sure that transaction goes through in the diamond industry that is an especially acute challenge to cover dogma diamonds you give me $1 million for the diamonds today. What assurance you have them that I would pay you in 30 days. I have the diamonds with me. They are portable that universally valuable their virtually untraceable. I can go anywhere in modern commerce of your selling me big stuff a ton of steel or house. We have liens we have legal instruments that help us secure the transaction. Sources of collateral. If I don't pay then you have other sources to get me and that in turn forces me to pay, but the diamond industry.

The law fails our legal institution simply is incapable of securing these transactions so I approach this problem asking that basic question how how can these extraordinarily hazardous transactions be govern. How is it economically feasible has a comport with some kind economic logic that credit can be extended and that the answer to that question is also the answer the question why does industry look so different. You have families dominate industry you have ethnic networks dominating industry and those kinship ties family and community ties serve as a source of collateral if I don't pay you back and visit my family and myself my families out of the business. It also means that my I have brought shame on my community, so to speak, and my community will no longer accept me as it did before.

And is this the relational exchange that spread is in a hurry. I am exchange exactly we have a certain notion of economic history of economic modernization that before there were legal institutions.

We only had personal exchange and it was extraordinary accomplishment. Extra economic complement to go from personal exchange and personal exchange when impersonal exchange is possible. You can trade with anybody you open up markets you no longer beholden to sources of power concentrated authority you bring in dynamism to bring innovators you open up scale, but impersonal exchange requires some kind of nontraditional governance mechanism and most people think that the emergence of courts enable impersonal exchange and really expanded the ability of, in particular European economies to grow along the Middle Ages. What this paper suggests is that impersonal exchange is not always possible with certain industries and certainly the role of courts in the state is not always effective or even available, and supporting economic expansion in market market transactions and that's why we see these pockets of persistent of relational exchange that persists in the modern era. Are there some lessons to be learned that we can apply to other sectors of the economy so there are lots of lessons.

One is that there is a reason that different areas of commerce, different industries are organized in their own way, every particular transaction in every industry has its own features has its own nuances that has overcome and manage, and the to achieve efficiencies in those different kinds of economic settings is different so what is good for the banking is not good for diamond which is not good for steel, which is not good for cars and we should not apply any kind of hegemonic view of what efficiency looks like or what we think efficiencies would look like.

Certainly one great lesson is we have to think about the legal and social environment that can nurture different industries and ways were not entirely familiar with and also we should understand that that certain economic policy tools should be applied with care that often the legal and social and structural environment of different areas of commerce of different industries are not understood. At first glance, and we might be hesitant to apply certain policy interventions. If you'd like to learn more.

You can read the book.

It's titled stateless commerce. The diamond network and the persistence of relational exchange, its author and our guest Barack Richmond professor at Duke University. Thanks much for joining us will have more on Carolina journal radio in just a moment if you love freedom we got great news to share with you now.

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Don't forget log on to today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation will get back to Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca. It's rare to hear an elected Democrat in North Carolina describe public schools is failing, but state representative Billy Richardson recently used that word Richardson was debating a bill on state budget technical corrections. He wanted to address a larger issue about principal just proves what our schools are filled our school system is really we can fix it if we are we doing a special session on how we can get out of the 40s. The top schools are number one charges Constitution is to take your schools. What are we having a special session of fixing failing schools with this bill.

This is not all it is not right. Richardson's words did not go unanswered Republican Nelson Dollar is the statehouse's chief budget writer. He responded directly to Richardson's criticism been some issues raised raised about having some special session for addressing educational reform and if a minor plan for just a couple of moments just to simply say this week for the last several years have had sessions long sessions and regular sessions in short sessions of this Gen. assembly dealing with a whole range of educational reform. We have invested billions of dollars over the last 67 years in education. We perform K through three in particular in terms of what were doing in the classroom think programs like read to achieve early childhood education programs investments that we've made and look at the grades are coming back in terms of student performance increases in student performance increases in teacher pay once again this year, just about a month ago. The BPR came out, not us. But BPR came out and said we had once again, a record high high school graduation rate in the state of North Carolina. So we have been working on education. And if there's any doubt in some member of mind of big with you and get some of them with you and explain you what we've been doing the last and the positive impacts his head. That's Republican state representative Nelson Dollar is the chief statehouse budget writer is responding to democratic representative Billy Richardson. Richardson describe North Carolina's public schools as they like, will return with more Carolina journal radio moment really influence you either have it or you don't and at the John Locke foundation. We do, and that's not bluster in a private survey of more than 250 North Carolina political insiders 87% said we influence them either a great deal a good amount. So while others talk and complain. We get to work providing research solutions and help our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse that is the envy of every other state.

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Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca, there's a new leader for a North Carolina group that focuses on the states business environment in the free market. The group is the North Carolina free enterprise foundation, its new executive director Jonathan Kappler joins us now Carolina journal radio. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. So Jonathan the first of all, I gave way too short of an explanation of what the North Carolina free enterprise foundation is tell us about the group are really the mission is actually really kind of has two main focuses to its mission statement, one is really providing nonpartisan political analysis and research for the states.

Business community really an objective way and then also providing educational programming got both to the business community and the public at large around making the state more business friendly and having a business environment in which the state can prosper in the business market so it while wheelhouse and what we spent a lot of our time is elections campaign finance polling demographic analysis so that the business community can engage in a way in which it wants to civic responsibility. You are new as executive director, but not new to the North Carolina free enterprise foundation tell us of what you did in a past life. For the Scripture. I'm so excited rejoinder for enterprise foundation between 2009 2013 I was the research director at the organization is a very familiar with the programming of the organization and now I'm rejoining as executive director shall have a broader scope of responsibilities, but very excited to be back amongst my friends, coming back home with the organization and do a lot of stuff that I love between those two times you stepped out and were actually in the world of higher education/government working for the University of North Carolina.

How was that experience can impact what you're doing certainly well that I worked for the UNC system and so I was up one of the two people that represented largely in Raleigh and for time in Washington DC as well. All 17 institutions in the UNC system and so that was actually great because it allowed me to come to better understand the state as a whole.

Travel to stay quite a bit and really understand things in a more grassroots level and can get more engaged in the communities that are around the state and so UC system has 17 wonderful institutions are never corner of the state and severally valued my time there develops wonderful relationships. Got to work with presidents Ross and spellings learned a lot from both of them and so really appreciate the leadership lessons I learned there along the way you suspect that there are going to be opportunities for increased tie-ins between what North Carolina free enterprise foundation is doing and what University researchers or entities are up to. Absolutely. I certainly want to be able to tap into both the network of very talented faculty members and students right to be to leverage the work of the North conifer and across the nation and frankly give folks an opportunity to to take some of their expertise and talents and use it for a state or nonprofit like this. We are chatting with Jonathan Kappler, executive director of the North Carolina free enterprise foundation near the top of this interview, you mentioned that there are two main pillars of what the group does. Let's let's talk about both of those and what you see lying at. So one of them is I guess the part that you spent a lot of time on when you research director that is what's going on with elections electoral trends which districts favor which party what you see happening on that front moving forward. Yeah me.

North Carolina is among the most politically dynamic states in the country and so authorizations are perfectly positioned to be really in the thick of dynamics that are in the news every day. So we do a lot of candidate briefings elections briefings on candidate forums. I would publish the almanac of North County politics which provides an overview of elections and districts in every corner of the state mainly to state legislative level and were providing that programming for the states business community, but also for the public at large and so if you have an interest or questions about candidates really stand on issues this because of things for nonbusiness related issues were the place to go is a resource for you on those things. So information largely lives online these days, and certainly leveraging social media and other things as well. Why is it important for people with the North Carolina's business community to have this type of information. Some people might think well they should be just busy with doing their business. Why do they need to know so much about what's going on in the political world right absolutely decisions our elected leaders are making in practice in a variety of different ways and you know the business leaders of the state are the ones providing jobs and spurring the economy forward.

And so it's really important that they provide. They understand how to engage in the process and that they have the information to effectively engage in the legislative and political process so that legislators have the best information available and that we have legislators that understand the value of the business community. So that's one big piece of which do the name North Carolina free enterprise foundation also suggests that there is this focus on the free enterprise system and letting people know about it when you see happening on that piece of the business of the foundation sure yeah we actually Cumberland. Those two things in a variety of different ways. And so, for example, soon will be releasing our business ratings of the North County Gen. assembly, which has a kind of an analysis of how legislators approach business issues through their time in the lives of long session and so that's helpful for legislators is helpful for the business community in the states offer for the public at large to understand how those two intersection account legislative politics and business issues company. We also do other kind of programming ring and scholars have other events that are, focused around issues that aren't of interest to the business community and and were looking for new and innovative ways right. There are other opportunities, TV, radio, and expensive things to provide some programming so that the business community has a voice North Carolina so the name of the group is the North Carolina free enterprise foundation. A lot of people associate a free enterprise in business with Republicans you're speaking on a libertarian talkshow that is often seen as being conservative, is there really a conservative, liberal, libertarian bent to the free enterprise foundation or you sort of the work with everyone right main goal is to provide objective analysis so that individuals however they choose to engage can do so in a way that's informed and educated so we do not lobby.

We don't take positions specifically on issues of information or providing is information that we hope whisper is viewed as objective and credible for anyone to use and so it you know the business trainer in your account is not monolithic, that always think the same things as our role is certainly not to pick winners and losers on on particular issues like that simply to provide that information for me to do with what they can as you been talking to business leaders, have they given you some ideas of things they want the free enterprise foundation to do that either has not done as much of work done in a different way. Absolutely there's lots of ideas out there. It's always a source of time and resources right or small organization but were fortunate in your thought about so many other organizations that we can part with on various things with his overlapping interest in the process of exploring a lot of these new things and I'm excited to be in my tenure to be able to kind of permit. Some of those new things you mentioned a little bit earlier that much is information lives online these days and that's the best way for people to find out about these things.

So, if people want to know what the free enterprise foundation is up to where should they go absolutely. Our website the North conifer enterprise foundation.

It's in C pretty easy and were definitely in the process.

As we enter into an election cycle. Words can be a lot of content and R-value is providing some context so that you don't get overwhelmed by the information you understand. Really what's important so people don't get overwhelmed by the website.

What are some of the main things still see when they go there certainly were trying to roll out some additional kind of snack table contents and bite-size chunks that you have some sense about what's happening certainly is as quick moving is only cycles are these days is important to stay up with a more regular basis, and so were looking to shift in that way as well that we also have longer-term research projects as well. Campaign-finance analysis and those kinds of things that a little bit more meaty substance so well as people get ready for another election season, crank up one resource. They're going to want to check out is that website in C we been speaking with Jonathan Kappler as the new Executive Director North Carolina free at a price foundation. Thanks much for joining us. Things will have more on Carolina journal rate full-color throughout every issue more visual storytelling. We've revamped Carolina journal to make it easier to read a new look and a new feel. But one thing hasn't changed and it never will.

That is our commitment to truth and transparency in government, you can still count on Carolina journal for investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles and vetting of corruption. No mission to shine the light on what North Carolina government and the bureaucrats who run it are doing in your name and with your money will never wane and because of that our reach and influence are growing through all of our distribution outlets we reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians every month so make sure you stay informed.

Read the monthly print edition of Carolina journal.

Then check in several times a day, Carolina that's where you'll find fresh stories, opinion pieces and updates on government politics and your money. Carolina journal. We hold government accountable to you back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez, Roy Cooper is one of just three US governors that serves on the trumpet ministrations commission on combating drug addiction and the opioid crisis, the president believes that the situation is so serious that he's declared the opioid abuse problem health emergency in our country. Our next guest believes that policymakers have failed to properly diagnose the opioid crisis and thus the proper course to address it. Dr. Jeffrey Singer is a surgeon in Phoenix.

He's also a senior fellow at the Cato Institute needs rent written a very interesting piece about this issue. Dr. Singer. Welcome to Carolina journal radio.

Thank you.

Happy to be here so Gov. Cooper is one of those governors on the commission and it looks like the commission is going to be looking at several different things. I'm identifying some federal funding, addressing treatment issues, prescription practices and and things like that do you believe that the top administration commission is on the wrong track with this. I think the wrong track because on basically restricting opioid as opposed to stripping overdoses. I think we need to focus the goal should be that we want to have less people overdosing back in the late 80s early 90s. It was made clear that the doctors were under prescribing for payment people not getting enough control of their pain and effort was made to encourage doctors to prescribe opioids for pain and patience to accept patient were afraid as well.

Now what happened is the pendulum swung the other way.

So we've gone from from encouraging people to use opioid pain and encouraging doctors to prescribe discouraging but if you look at the numbers discouraging suitable pain is going after the wrong problem prescription and now according to the CDC, have come down. Prescription rates have come down seventh Street years. In fact, the prescriptions of the higher dose.

More potent opioids are down 41% from what they were in 2010, according to the CDC, every state now is prescription drug monitoring programs which monitor doctors and patients and had the effect of basically casting a chilling effect on doctors prescribing opioids that may opioids come down. The truck enforcement and ministration as manufacturers to decrease the production of opioids 25% in 2016. This year they ordered another 20% reduction happening in hospital overdose rate is going up up up and 35,000 opioid overdose. That 33,000 in 2015 and according to projections the end of this year. The 2016 numbers of go up even more.

If you look at those numbers, the majority now are from Dillon heroin and actually prescription opioids as the cause of the open overdose deaths have legalized or be seated.

So all of the mistaken in thinking that the cause of the overdose crisis is doctors prescribing medication.

Patients in pain. Well, it is multifactorial why we have to ask yourself why are people seeking to abuse drugs and you know in the legal market and is a lot of different factors are social factors or economic factors that mean that there certainly is a country where it seems to be hard you hope you will those places in the midyear review to people with chronic unemployment, with no broken families, like people are turning to drugs to alter their mind. Now granted I were some bad Apple doctors out there who I would not have an MD degree and are using it to become tool pushes for the most part they been rounded up and arrested and punished, and that as it should be long majority of doctors treating people in pain. Narrative out there that if you take opioids you become an addict, but is a tendency for people to link the two words addict and chemical dependency interchangeably and are not addiction is actually a separate behavioral disease where you crave it. Even when you can detox that we do self-destructive behavior in order to get the truck and study after study, including from the government's own numbers show that is roughly 12% rate of actual addiction in people chronically for pain from the doctors government data shows that less than 25% of people show up in emergency rooms overdoses even obtained a doctor in the previous preceding year. Public policy perspective, if the top administration is off the mark in terms of focusing so much on overprescribing end and situation with doctors. What would be the appropriate policy prescription will help people overdosing in the black market.

When you have prohibition. You never know. Of course what you getting right about cultural vision anymore when I go to the market by a bottle of liquor I've never crossed my mind that the strength of the alcohol on bottle label or that might be. Maybe something else that I don't want because it you have a legal market legal recourse so dying is because they're buying what they think is what say oxycodone on the legal market intern dying from the data show basically driven to heroin so the real answer, obviously, is to look at ending prohibition, but that's probably equally not a realistic option at this point in our nation's history. So then let's focus on stopping people from dying instead of stopping people on pain from getting relief. So reduction measures which are part of the commission's recommendations should be on in my opinion. So, for example, what harm reduction measures well medication treatment has been shown to be helpful. Methadone maintenance clinics and other kind of like Suboxone but it's very very difficult a lot of bureaucracy, attempts to set up methadone maintenance clinics and regulations is very hard for doctors to become certified as an outpatient drug addicts using Suboxone and not only that, but any position extended PA or nurse practitioner have to get also the special waivers liberalize those regulations to make it easier for doctors and Dr. expanders medication treatment. We need to make no locks only answer though overdose more readily available right nowhave me know where you can get directly from drug over the counter drug will have to cool pharmacist in the form prescribed well that some people believe that by giving their information to a pharmacist they may get into trouble because I got a substance abuse problem.

Some people from getting so drug yet you would make no locks or over-the-counter people will buy it over the counter and check out the catheter and they can keep their private life more secret. In addition to states so far but all of them should adopt what they call good Samaritan laws because if you overdose your free to call the police or the funders to see the life of the person's overdosing because you're free to get arrested Dr. Jeffrey Singer. He is a surgeon is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute senior thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it and that's all the time we have for Carolina journal radio this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch.

I'm Donna Martinez will join us again next week for more Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John learn more about the John Locke foundation donations support programs like Carolina journal radio send email to development John Locke call 66 jail left 166-553-4636 journal radio nation airline is present on this program nearly commission or other foundation. Many airline sponsors Carolina radio again

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