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Carolina Journal Radio No. 843: Polling data offer hints about N.C. governor’s race

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
July 15, 2019 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 843: Polling data offer hints about N.C. governor’s race

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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July 15, 2019 8:00 am

The 2020 general election is more than a year away, but there’s plenty of political activity at the state and federal level. Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper and Republican Lt. Gov. Dan Forest appear to be headed toward a contest for the Executive Mansion. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, analyzes recent polling data linked to the governor’s race. Education reform represents an important goal. But reformers have a mixed record of success. That’s the assessment from Robert Pondiscio, senior fellow at the Thomas B. Fordham Institute. Pondiscio explains why education reform measures often fall short of their worthwhile goals. He offers reformers ideas for improvement. State lawmakers are pursuing changes that would relax restrictions on North Carolina’s craft distilleries. Their proposals are attracting praise from Pete Barger of Southern Distilling Company. He leads a group promoting state craft distillers. One of the most controversial bills in this year’s legislative session has involved N.C. sheriffs and federal Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, or ICE. You’ll learn why some lawmakers want to compel sheriffs to comply with ICE detainers for illegal immigrants arrested for crimes. You’ll also hear critics’ objections. A chief dispute in this year’s state budget debate involves Medicaid expansion. Jordan Roberts, John Locke Foundation health care policy analyst, outlines the details of the dispute. He explains how resolution of that dispute could affect taxpayers and health care consumers.

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From Cherokee to current and the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I Mitch coca during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state education reform is a great goal, but will hear from one reformer who says reform hasn't always lived up to its promise to North Carolina lawmakers want to relax restrictions on craft distilleries.

Their hearing praise from distillers themselves.

One of the most controversial bills in this year's general assembly involves sheriffs and federal immigration enforcement. Learn what lawmakers propose you'll also hear from critics at will delve into one of the chief roadblocks to a new state budget Medicaid expansion Gov. Cooper once it lawmakers disagree those topics are just ahead.

But first, Donna Martinez joins us and she has the Carolina Journal headline hi new poll from the scimitar's Institute shows North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper with a solid lead over his presumptive Republican opponent, Lieut. Gov. Dan Forest 47 to 37% yet. Gov. Cooper's a job approval sits at just 40% in a poll from the Democratic polling firm of public policy polling. So what does it all mean when it comes to what we can expect for the governors race.

Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal. He has been following these polls closely enjoins us now.

Rick welcome back what you make of the results of these two different polls that appear to show something a little bit different for Gov. Cooper well for Gov. Cooper, his approval rating as being under 50% and also effect it had to head race with the only announced candidate on the Republican side can be under 50% suggest that this race is not locked up for Gov. Cooper. The problem that Gov. Cooper faces is that he's he seems to be running more against Gen. assembly. Yes, his presumptive opponent and so because there has been so little cooperation with the Gen. assembly on some major issues then the voters have to say. We know what we like with the general assemblies doing Gov. Cooper be more proactive in his outreach to the general assembly into not only to Republican voters but to unaffiliated voters who comprise the second largest number of voters in North Carolina so it seems as if that the both Gov. Cooper and Gov. Forrest are running to their bases and that is happened recently in a space that was in the governor gave it a church in Charlotte. Charlotte area having the subbase election so far and the base if you add the base up together both parties doesn't add up to nearly hundred percent and we are just talking about Lieut. Gov. Dan Forest time here on on the show simply because the posters at this point are polling his name right. A filing is a long way off and there's been some scuttlebutt that there might be other people get into the Republican race for the nomination. What Rick do you think is set Lieut. Gov. Dan Forest biggest challenge two things. Number one. Can he appeal to affiliated voters. Voters who are not loyal Republicans and to voters who are not cultural conservatives cause the he's very vocal about being a social conservative, as well as an economic conservative. He has been coming.

Lieut. Gov. is not ashamed in any way or shy about his faith and he is made that part of his part of his persona throughout a part of the way it is governed in the way that dignity is not is not bashful about it and so what you see is what you get with him. So that's so that's something that that that that he is certainly part of him throughout what he actually was sort of looming that may have an impact on his ability to break through the fact that this continuing fundraising scandal involving insurance operative Greg Lundberg from Durham looks like it's not going to go away anytime soon and Lundberg is us essentially accused of setting up something like a Ponzi scheme to build insurance companies through assets that from other insurance companies that he owned accumulating the sort of thing, he became a huge donor to both Republicans and Democrats in the insurance commissioners race to try to get what looked to be favorable treatment allegedly from the department of insurance and while Wayne Goodwin, the current Democratic Party chairman was insurance Commissioner when this all started one good one is largely escaped any problems.

Dan Forest is one who seems to be in some peril simply because he was involved in a 501(c) for an advocacy organization did some did some work for that organization to endorse works organization.

Mr. Lundberg basically bankrolled so it's gonna be a difficult, difficult legal thread to say no.

I did know exactly what was going on with Mr. Lundberg's business, but I was happy to talk about the issues were important him likely to have to face questions about that is closer and closer to an election again if we presume that Lieut. Gov. will be the Republican nominee. The lieutenant governor is known Rick craft for having all sorts of grassroots connections. He does a lot of traveling talks to a lot of local Republican and conservative groups. What about for Gov. Cooper. On that score.

Do we know if he has those deep roots across the state we know is from the eastern part of this great well known there but does he have that grassroots activism that will turn out for him no matter what, he didn't really have it so much when he ran the first time and one of the issues that he has faced through his early political career was that he didn't really have any challenges after he won his first race for Atty. Gen. back in 2000, which was somewhat controversial. So we talked about this program before with the the race that he had against invoice Republican, but the issue that he's had throughout his how deep are his ties with local precinct chairs and local and county party officials and things like that I think is a lot to build that up as governor are those ties deep enough long-standing enough to get people to come out who just are going to be used for any Democrat is on the ballot regardless.

So that's the issue is that one of enthusiasm. I think that the Democratic Party statewide is pretty energized right now and so Gov. has that going for it is again. There's awful what you got to do as at running a statewide race which then forces on very well. Twice now in getting people to say will put out yard signs would go door for you were going to do all the sorts of things that convince people who otherwise might say him on election day or might not fill in absentee ballots and do those things. And Lieut. Gov. is great at that sort of thing is a relentless campaign are a very effective one, and is yet to be seen how good Gov. Cooper will be against someone with that level of talent as a campaigner now course 2020. Not only a big time Gov.'s race for us.

We got a big time Senate race on the ballot and its presidential year. And speaking of the president, are we expecting him to come into the state and do you think that he could in any way impact the outcome of the governor's race. I would imagine that he would have us impact on that because first, always already endorsed the incumbent set US Sen. Tom Tillis is running for reelection. So that's already happened would imagine he would come into the state. His is is daughter Laura Trump is a resident of native North Carolina Wellington area losing actually is only willing to marry still and so she's in the state quite a bit so we may well see the president family members. Other surrogates and hear a lot campaigning and it may well be that yes will see that it would have an impact on the governor's race course, we do have the Republican national presidential nominating convention in Charlotte so I will be in town for that course but that we may see a lot of that we may see a lot of VP Mike pence here in the states well.

North Carolina is going to be as important estate to both parties in the 2020s was in 2016 and especially with other things going on such as redistricting reapportionment were probably going to gain at least one congressional seat is going be big and so the national parties are to play a lot of role here is to be fascinating to see if it visits by the president and vice president. The Trump family, whether or not that generates turnout on the Republican side. Some people believe it will have a positive effect for Republicans. Other people believe that it will help to energize the Democratic base, which of course wants to see Donald Trump defeated in 2020 sell a lot to come here in North Carolina.

Carolina Journal course will be following all of these key races. Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal thank you thank you stay with us much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina Journal honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina Journal is free to subscribers sign up at Carolina. Journal.com.

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You won't be disappointed. It's fresh news if you'd like a heads up on the daily news sign up for daily email do that Carolina Journal.com Carolina Journal, rigorous, unrelenting, old-school journalism, we hold government accountable for you. Welcome back Carolina journal radio I Mexico guy education reform sounds like a great idea who could object to improving education building better schools but education reform practice leaps some observers underwhelmed count among them Robert Pond Visio Senior fellow at the Thomas B form Institute. Welcome to the program is readily so education reform you've actually read the whole column about about education reform sort of losing its way what you mean by I feel I have written almost nothing.

But this in the last year. So if you like I'm becoming a bit of a broken record.

Preface this by saying look I consider myself in it reform, or at least I hope my reform credentials are in good order. I like you choice and charters accountability and testing just fine to the end of the day am also a teacher that's really how I kind of a self identified as a work in this work, I tend to be the guy when those conversations happen about choice and charters in accountability and teacher quality is a can we talk about the kids are doing all day that matters to you, and I think that gets a little bit lost in education conversations started. This is I'm going to answer your questions soon, but it's but discursive. If you think about the logic of the classic Ed reform playbook test driven accountability that the notion is predicated on right is that will schools know what to do.

We only need to hold him accountable for doing it. That's why we test. And if you're good, then we let you open more charters. We praise you or we reward you.

And if you know good. Then we shut you down, or counsel, you have the business make sense right well because I've been a teacher for so long. I think we made it we were to get this idea that we know what to do and we just need to either have our butts kicked, or be praised and rewarded for doing it. That's not what's going on inside a lot of schools so there's there's an internal logic problem there and I and I think your 2025 years into this Ed reform experiment. I want to be paid what you brought up brush, but I think it's been a mixed bag. I mean if you are an inner-city school teacher, that's my background, I'd much rather be a low income kid of color in a place like Newark or New Orleans or New York City where I taught today than 30 years ago, but that's not the same thing as education reform has has created this rising tide has lifted all boats.

It has been a very mixed blessing. A lot of parents complain about the deleterious effects of testing and test prep in accountability and they are not wrong so that that's in in in in some I gave you a complicated answer because it's a complicated issue is one of the problems that people latch onto these various reforms at the Guelph. We just do this. Sure this is going to work and I don't there's that easy, but hearsay, so, so it is that's something targeted to help people surmount the you can't just say more charter schools. More choice, more testing there needs to be follow-up and it's not easy. Well it's the reason I tend to focus in the work in writing that I do on an educational practice. In other words, what the curriculum and pedagogy were kids doing all day because again, accountability works when that works so get at the risk of painting with too broad of a brush might my money laments is that if we spent the last 20 or 30 years trying to improve teaching and learning. Educational practice I would probably be a little bit further along than we are right now we're chatting with Robert Pond Visio who is a senior fellow at the Thomas before the Institute so you've identified a problem with the reform itself. What we do now, what we see this when we knew how much time do you. I do think that the money must I give the impression that I'm anti-reform and not again my my credentials are in good order. I think it's a question of where we focus our energies again that the vote of the sickly or ambiguous success that reform. So far, inner-city charter schools but that's not the same thing again as having created a rising tide. So if we if we focus on teaching and learning on if if that really good burst of energy that's been an unambiguous good thing. You know that the did this just the amount of airtime, so to speak that were giving to education going back to teach for America and charter schools, and one that's a very good thing if we had applied that energy that we put into testing and accountability into improving curriculum and instruction training teachers better giving them the why so to speak as to what were doing.

I think we would be further along so is not a question of policy doesn't matter. Accountability doesn't matter, it's you have to be very very careful about what you're incentivizing and you have to be very clear on the fact that if teachers and this is gonna sound like I'm being an apologist for that teaching. I'm not. If you are under the impression that teachers know what to do. Your mistake in the 21st oh I was a midcareer switcher. I started teaching at age almost 40, so I was untainted by by an schooling nuclear progressive notions of of of educational practice and it was a bit of a mystery to me like no will let you know this is not how I learn. But what will you know what I know I haven't been in elementary schools is that when the students so they must know something. It took me a long time to really been an appreciation for how little because people are poor and poorly attended. Just because we have some unusual notions about what good teaching and learning looks like and in much of the energy in the reform movement has not been on that at all. It's been about testing and accountability, etc. some again I'm ranting here but but my my point is that if we spend that energy trying to improve the products as a poet process as opposed to assuming the product is fine and now we just need to measure the output would be further along. Where does the type of reform that you're focusing on best head the other that is guessing this is not good be something in Washington is going to dictate yeah hello. Is it something more appropriate local level station where sure look, I'm sure there's a policy play hear from you.

To be brutally honest about I can point to a lot of examples were policy as well intended at ease as it might be has really gotten in the way. Maybe a subject for the time but we can look at literacy and the incentives that that that that annual reading test send teachers about how they should teach kids to read and make it a deathless length explains you how. That's really creating almost incentivizing bad practice.

So there's two things I would argue that have to happen in this is my third broadbrush alert one we have to really, really we think of the messages that were sending to teachers and schools through short-term incentives to test driven accountability.

I'm not anti-Tesla make that really really clear. I wonder how my kids doing I want to have your kids doing. I want have schools and districts are doing a but that's not the same thing as we want you to get test scores up right now that's more complicated so that that that's the policy play is to really rethink what were telling teachers functionally to do to your very good point. Can that happen at the at the national level. No, absolutely not can happen on the state level. Well, it depends on what the policy is I'm looking very optimistic that charter schools are taught in charter schools and staunchly pro-charter as long as the policy conditions are in place that allow genuine innovation, genuine experimentation and smart teaching and learning that I think you've got something but it is almost like a perfect storm that's conspired against it and we can talk about in school at length in the way I was taught to teach literacy to kids that doesn't know what every can of Tom's been alone can get a color.

Many of the ideas that I I I now make fun of them simply are demonstrably that that's got to stop you.

We need to create the conditions that allow teachers and schools to make long-term investments, so to speak in background knowledge on an unapologetic disciple of ED Hirsch, Junior, who you might know of cultural literacy.

I was that he was the one guy whose work describe what I was seeing in my South Bronx classroom every day you gotta create the conditions that allow for that patient investment in background knowledge and vocabulary.

And don't just put a dipstick into the engine once a year and sale, how you doing note not enough progress since last year because is, as Hirsch himself says language is a slow slow-growing plant and may not respond to short-term incentives Robert Pond Visio.

He is a senior fellow at the Thomas before the thanks of moron Carolina journal radio just a moment.

If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina conservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and lot foundation analysts, opinion pieces and reports on higher education James G. Martin Center for academic renewal, commentary and polling data from the scimitar's Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com. Try it today.

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But here's what's better is on donates 0.5% of the price of your eligible Amazon smile purchases to the John Locke foundation to try it. Be sure to designate us as the nonprofit you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mott foundation will connect Carolina radio. I Mitch coca some North Carolina lawmakers want to loosen government restrictions on craft distilleries. Their winning praise for their efforts from Pete Barker is principal owner of southern distilling company in Statesville. He's also president of the state distillers Association is really a commonsense provision. This is at the end of the day employment bill. It's a business growth bill. This is about supporting industry and employing people in the state of North Carolina contributing to the taxpayers, North Carolina today were still fledgling industry, but would come a long way in a few years or 77 permitted distilleries in North Carolina, while growing, you have to remember we are small family grown family-run organizations that have made significant investments in capital equipment and it takes years for those investments to pay off in this business, such as the nature of this business. We are also uniquely tied to this community are to the communities that we operate.

That's because we are sourcing our local products or grains, etc. from local farmers and growers to put this in perspective southern distilling company every eight hour shift.

We used 10,000 pounds of locally sourced at any point in time we have 2000 acres of rain and contract production within a 5 mile radius of our facility.

So not only as we grow we employ more people directly, where probably employing three times the number of people indirectly because of the rural agrarian nature of our business.

I think that we can all agree North Carolina still rule in agrarian state anything that we can do to help support those industries is a benefit SP 290 simply provides the market access and the additional revenue critical to grow our businesses to hire more employees and to continue to support the state of North Carolina through federal excise taxes, state excise taxes, etc. Pete Barker of the state distillers Association also compared rules for spirits to those for beer and wine.

This is really an alcohol parity or equity bill you know a president is Artie been established with beer and wine and quite frankly we're just looking to the same access to consumers and markets that are friends and beer and wine have enjoyed look at these industries. 15 years ago. They were just like we are today small fledgling industries. Today, their economic drivers in many communities and desperately need that income. We want to be a part of that growth and to do that we really need your support. So we are engaged in vested members in our communities. We believe that we can responsibly grow these businesses but need your support to do so. That's Pete Barker of Statesville, president of the distillers Association of North Carolina.

He speaking in support of the bill to loosen state government restrictions on craft distilleries measure would grant distilleries more freedom in selling their products, will return with more Carolina journal radio where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast Locke is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time that's listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation will connect Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca among the most controversial pieces of legislation this year at the North Carolina Gen. assembly a bill requiring the states sheriffs to cooperate with federal immigration enforcement agents in the state Senate Republican Chuck Edwards made the case for the new requirement like to begin with these words.

Please listen to these carefully.

I do solemnly swear that I will support and maintain the Constitution and the laws of the United States.

I do some solemnly swear that I will support and maintain the Constitution and the laws of the United States members.

That's the first line in the booth that every sheriff in North Carolina has taken when they took their office want you to know and be clear that the most North Carolina serifs eagerly cooperate with immigrations and customs enforcement. In spite of this, there've been a few sheriffs that have refused to cooperate with eyes they will honor ice detainers and they won't allow eyes to interview trainees when that detainee is in their jail is all of our jobs to protect our citizens. Edwards responded to the bill's critics I've listened to feedback from a lot of folks and asked myself, are we doing the right thing. Are we doing something that you are we doing something that is constitutional, are we making a decision that is so humanitarian and I really question whether or not to spill those that have come to the conclusion that it does all this things we've heard from many citizens groups. Some are frightened some angry. Almost all of them really not fully understanding what this bill does. We've heard from some sheriffs one on behalf of the sheriffs Association that strongly supports the bill from a couple would oppose the bill. I'm convinced that this action is the right thing to do. If we are clear about who we should protect criminals or law-abiding citizens.

Edwards recapped the bill's primary purpose will require local law enforcement to work with federal immigration officials in the interest of public safety.

Nothing else it will protect law-abiding citizens from repetitious criminals. It will support all the law enforcement officers that are out there risking their lives daily to help ensure that our lives go uninterrupted by crime.

Edwards pushed back at those who complain about ice the federal immigration and customs enforcement agency were talking about cooperating with an organization that's trying to protect us. Our citizens are sought entry our nation.

Let let's let those things to sink in for just a minute and let's keep in mind that there are people in this country illegally that want to hurt us there people in this country illegally. That would want to hurt my granddaughter through some terrorism act through selling some substance that she would put in her veins or some other means, and we can say that about the families of every member in here that's Republican Sen. Chuck Edwards supporting a bill to require North Carolina sheriffs to cooperate with federal immigration and customs enforcement, or ice on the other side of the argument. Democratic Sen. Floyd McKissick of Durham County is single sheriff in this state. Not a single one of the 100 counties and violated a single law, single rule, a single regulation as a relates to ice in cooperation with ice is within the inherent authority of each sheriff was duly and lawfully elected from all the people within those counties to decide whether they want to work with ice decide whether not to work with ice that's within their authority that's within her discretion today and that's the way it should remain when we look at some of them languages in this bill we go far far astray. And it's good to have a very showing impact on many people in this state. It's going to intimidate many people in this state. Many people who already live in fear shadowing underneath the plow. We should be about making certain that it is stated, everybody, regardless of where they came from Phil so they can have confidence in law enforcement and call law enforcement whether a victim of domestic violence when they're a victim of a crime of robbery regardless of what that type of offense might be that might've been perpetrated against them not to be fearful not to be unduly concerned. McKissick challenges the notion that ice detainers will target only the worst criminal offenders. It could be a jaywalking offense.

It could be a simple trespassing offense. It could be a simple traffic offense if they end up going down the Caney jail.

Now we have all that says that sheriff allows law enforcement officers personnel must absolutely must weary ice. They must do it and what must they do otherwise think I'll wait and see what occurs with ice and establish a parallel system that same type of parallel system that's unconstitutional a parallel system essentially says now if we get information back with ice. We have a magistrate to sit here and conduct the hearing and establishes a dictator process independent from federal law to hold someone for 48 hours micro my original bill sent 96. I guess you brought it back to what he ate because you felt the least that would be consistent with ice would do under federal standard or remember, you can't go at their clear peril system and then it sits there and says that that person who is being detained.

Ice can come and interrogate them. Ice can come in and this is the process were now establishing under normal law, a person goes before magistrate magistrate looks at the criminal record. They look at the offense of which their chart and determine if there are threat and determine if they can be released immediately or if there's a modest bond that allows it to be released but no worse than looking a whole new set of standards which in my mind are clearly unconstitutional. Republican Sen. Chuck Edwards had a response for the critics we noticed you do solemnly and sincerely swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the state of North Carolina and to the constitutional powers and authorities, which are or may be established for the government thereof. Members that came from the every one of us took earlier this year. If you expect our serifs to live up to their oath. If you are truthful when you took your you believe in the rule of law. If you believe in the sanctity of this nation.

If you believe in the very essence of your role as a lawmaker, and that the laws you pass should be followed if you believe we should protect our citizens instead of criminals.

Please join me in voting yes you been listening to highlights from debate over a bill to require North Carolina sheriffs to work with federal immigration enforcement agents will return with North Carolina journal radio in a moment really influence you either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms in the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complain or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life.

Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse, the envy of every other state research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you are. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation.

Welcome back to Carolina journal radio and Donna Martinez, Gov. Roy Cooper's veto of the bipartisan state budget passed by the Gen. assembly has again focused attention on North Carolina's decision to date to expand Medicaid to another 500 to 600,000 adults. The governor and other advocates are staunch supporters of the Medicaid expansion approach, but the John Mott foundation's healthcare policy analyst says that would be the wrong move to make. Jordan Roberts joins us now. Jordan welcome back to the show you have written a lot about this issue and in a letter to the editor of the Wilmington Star news that editorial board had endorsed Medicaid expansion. You wrote that legislators are right to reject what you say would be an estimated $6 billion expenditure over 10 years. Are they right to reject Medicaid expansion while for a number of reasons, but I think the most important recently got a look at first is the costs and there's two aspects of the cost that were concerned about here. The John Locke foundation. First of all the way to the affordable care act was set up. The federal government would pay for 90% of the state Medicaid expansion program and were concerned about is with the state of the federal government $22 trillion in debt approaching $1 trillion a year of deficit that you know is the federal government to be able to keep the promise of paying 90% and you look at some these other social programs like Medicare and Social Security and I just it's a bleak outlook and so you know were concerned that if we commit to covering you know of 230% of the federal poverty run-through or state Medicaid program that you know at any time. The money could be ripped out from under us, and you know that's just a chance that the North Carolina Gen. assembly shouldn't take on the other side when you inject more federal money into the healthcare system. It's a massive market distortion and you know cost can rise for private insurers be because of our private insurance crowd out Medicaid reimburses below what it normally cost to provide care. So sometimes you have a large hospital systems systems you having to make up for that in some way so you know there's there's a big reason for costs. Another reason is that you are here North Carolina. We have about 10 million people for our state population. We are to have two point little over 2 million people already on the Medicaid rolls. We've added 500,000 just in the last couple of years while the economy has been growing and so he notes that you know there's no shortage of problems in our current Medicaid program.

So when you look at all that you look at the growth of the program. It just doesn't make fiscal sense to you know another 5 to 600,000 people potentially getting close to 3 million. 1/3 of our states.

You're just below the third of our states population to the Medicaid program.

When you know the scope of this program is for the neediest in our state. Jordan what I have found really compelling about some of the writing that you've done on this issue is not only the thief fiscal impacts that you just described, but he talked a lot are you wrote about how current enrollees in the Medicaid program. People who really do fit the qualification their poor they are disabled they really do need the social safety net that some of those folks would find themselves crowded out essentially not able to access care that they need because so many new people would be added into the system talk a little bit more about that right so you know when it comes down to North Carolina we we have no medical desert trip shortages of primary care physicians, mental health professionals in a lot of areas of our state and so you know the traditional Medicaid population sometimes can arty struggle to find doctors who are in their area or if there are in their area who actually accept Medicaid or to accept new Medicaid patients so you know, without shortage problem adding a whole another half a million people to the roles that really could have an effect on people's ability to seek care through the Medicaid program and that's not to say that we don't want these people to seek care assisted you know, we know that this could have an effect on people's ability to get into the doctor and you know that because of Medicaid's lower reimbursement rates. Some doctors are willing to accept that so that comes back to the point that you know health insurance doesn't mean you have access to healthcare and so you know addressing is accessing problems.

First, that's the right step instead of just expanding government coverage to people who may not be able to access a doctor here.

Some people say will wait a second, Jordan Roberts and that all sounds great but is it sounds very academic and why wouldn't she want to try to help people, but you've also written that just because you oppose Medicaid expansion doesn't mean that that you don't care and doesn't mean that there isn't a real problem there really can't access affordable health insurance.

So what we do instead. If not, expand Medicaid, that's the crux of the disagreement between those on the left and the right here. You know here at the John Mark foundation. We have seen what you know 50+ years of government intervention in our healthcare markets is Don prices continue to go up and the answer seems to be from a lot of people more government regulation more government spending more government control of healthcare is not how we see the correct fixedness market and you know I have started well before we need more higher supply of healthcare so there's a number of supply-side reforms we can take in the state to increase the number of low cost facilities.

The number of health professionals in the area and you know when you have downward pressure because of increased supply, you know that's how we can you lower the cost of health insurance be valid through an employer plan through the Obama care exchanges, you know, there's lots of laws in North Carolina that we can change just a few off the top my head. Certificate of need laws.

We talked about that on here before opening up the freedom of nurse practitioners to practice without supervision requirements. Expand the use of telemedicine by letting people with good standing with licenses outside of the state see patients inside of the state during these lice licensure compacts that make it easier for licensed professionals to come in. No other insurance options like Association health plans that a lot of these workers that are full-time employees working for a company that provides an employer plan maybe through a trade association they can get coverage and is there's plenty of options. We know that more government intervention more government spending more government control is not the answer that's good bring down prices instead of just shift the cost of the taxpayer.

By expanding these government programs that now provide coverage to people who can afford it and you know large prey reason it's unaffordable is because of the affordable care it's all these regulations I got placed on insurance markets what insurers have to cover so you know we we seen the evidence. When the government gets involved. You know the prices for healthcare keep going up insurance becomes less competitive, less affordable for a lot of folks in them.

That's when we arrive at this answer where a lot of people say you're the only other option is to expand Medicaid and that's not the way we see it and it looks like momentum to expand Medicaid across the country actually is slowing a recent story in governing magazine talked about North Carolina and other states that have not expanded Medicaid and says that you know there was a a time when state after state was starting to sign on to the program and saying yes we can take that federal money were going to go ahead and expand but they had some experiences in other states. That will give states like North Carolina pause before we would act that way.

So why is momentum slowing that I think there's a lot of states that see the trajectory of the federal budget and there's a promise of 90% of the costs in here North Carolina that our state share would be roughly 600 million over the first two years so in total. That's about $5.4 billion being promised by the federal government, and if we commit to that open up the our Medicaid program to cover these folks and the federal government would somehow take that money away North Carolina Gen. assembly budget makers would have to make that up somehow or not comes from crowding out other parts of the budget cutting services for Medicaid for current Medicaid recipients. Or, you know, raising taxes to fill out all women talking about the debate over whether or not to expand Medicaid in North Carolina.

Thank you all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost. Okay I'm Donna Martinez.

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