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Carolina Journal Radio No. 874: N.C. voters look ahead to Super Tuesday

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
February 17, 2020 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 874: N.C. voters look ahead to Super Tuesday

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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February 17, 2020 8:00 am

In a matter of weeks, N.C. voters will participate in the Super Tuesday elections. Democrats are likely to face heated presidential and U.S. Senate primaries, Republicans will decide who should face incumbent Roy Cooper in the governor’s race, and members of both parties will see other important races on primary ballots. No one will have to show a voter ID. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, assesses key issues in play as Super Tuesday approaches. North Carolina has made significant reforms to its alcohol regulations in recent years. There’s still plenty of room to relax decades-old restrictions that block growth of booming craft beer and distillery operations. John Trump, Carolina Journal managing editor, offers an alcohol law update. Leaders of the University of North Carolina System continue to focus on ensuring protection of viewpoint diversity on UNC campuses. During a recent forum, UNC Board of Governors member Steve Long shared his concerns about efforts to ensure a wide range of political views among campus faculty. Harvard has faced high-profile legal challenges to its admissions process in recent years. During a recent Hayek Lecture at Duke University, economics professor Peter Arcidiacono shared highlights of his analysis of Harvard’s admissions. Arcidiacono explains how athletic and legacy admissions influence the mix of whites and minorities admitted to the Ivy League school. Fewer teachers are leaving their jobs in N.C. public schools, according to the latest official state teacher turnover report. Terry Stoops, John Locke Foundation vice president for research and director of education studies, analyzes the latest numbers.

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From Cherokee to current tagging from the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues book of the Carolina Journal radio I beach Coke during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. North Carolina has enacted major reforms in recent years involving alcohol will recap them and look ahead to other government restrictions of outlived their usefulness.

The wincing board of governors continues to look for ways to ensure viewpoint diversity on campuses you hear one board members concerns about the topic. Harvard has drawn fire in recent years for its admissions policy at Duke economist shares results from his analysis of Harvard's admission numbers. Plus will examine key facts and figures from North Carolina's latest public school teacher turnover report. Are teachers fleeing the state. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline well.

It is called super Tuesday, the day that North Carolina and handful of other key battleground states will go to the polls to decide who will compete in November's general election.

Now here in our state were talking about test statewide races and offices, including Gov. federal offices, the U.S. Senate, of course, at the state level, the general assembly and president of the United States as well. All of these things on the March primary ballot Carolina Journal is covering all of the key races in Rick Henderson as editor-in-chief. He joins us now to talk about what could be a head Rick welcome back to the show.

Thank you. Early voting now underway for March. A primary at no photo ID required that you wrote what voters in 2018 said, we will require the Constitution will place the constitutional provision. The voter ID shall be required at the polls with courts have said not so fast and the continue continues to be tied up in various court battles over whether or not the photo ID requirement that was passed by the Gen. assembly. The enabling legislation in some way disenfranchises elderly minority. Other voters send it to something here for. It seems like it would be a tough sell that argument, considering that that enabling legislation had a whole slew of different things that you could use as identification and the issue is always good was going is always going to be facing with any election related legislation, constitutional limits and the like is that we are a former site of the Confederacy and that for years if not decades. There was active suppression of minority votes and so we face a higher threshold than other similar states and so even though net states, not quite neighboring may have voter ID requirements that are more stringent than ours, and the one that we've proposed. At least it doesn't matter. And so we also situation which at the federal level, at least the governing Court of Appeal circuit. The Fourth Circuit is fairly hostile toward conservatives right now and so those judges tend to look askance at the attempts to solidify the requirements for voting in Summit is just as a situation right us a confluence of events is can make this very difficult and is quite possible that we will not have voter ID for the even the fall cycle so the barrel at the March 3 ballot is really quite full. Some very interesting races. Let's start with the one for governor. Now we know that to the Democratic incumbent Roy Cooper wants a second term. So he's on the ballot along with Ernest Tyrone Reeves. That's the Democratic primary. On the Republican side Rick we have Dan Forrest, the current Lieut. Gov. and Holly Grange. He was a state legislator says that racecourse will Dan Forrest should be walking away with it. As far as all the initial polling is concerned, he is walking away with. But there are some issues of concern for the forest camp involving the donor Greg Lindbergh from Durham who was operating insurance surgeon insurance companies some of said it was a Ponzi scheme that he set up and he attempted to use.

According to prosecutors is now being now been indicted is now facing charges of essentially bribing public officials to try to get favorable treatment for his insurance companies and there were a large number of campaign contributions made to to political action committee that will supporting Dan Forrest. There are campaign contributions are some allegedly, some contact between the four staff and Mr. Lindbergh and Mr. Limburg Associates and so this is now continuing to unfold as we speak and Dan Forrest should be the lead pipe cinch nominee, but he may not be in the Grange camp.

She's a New Hanover County state representative represents military community. There is I'm guessing just hanging on by her fingernails, hoping that something happens to the overturn of the narrative about this race because otherwise Dan Forrest should win the primary and if he does seem big could well be a damage candidate going to the general election. So this can be fascinating to see how that one turns out that for the race for governor. The Lieut. Gov. race is quite interesting as well. We have lots and lots of people are Democrats and Republicans who are in this primary soak in the Lieut. Gov. said Democratic primary. We have Allen Thomas Bill Toole Terry Van Dyne Chaz Beasley Yvonne Lewis Holly and Ron Newton over on the Republican side.

We got John Ritter Mark Robinson Scott Stone Andy Wells Buddy bangle Deborah Cochran Rene Elmers Greg Gebhart and Mark Johnson. Why does everybody want to be Lieut. Gov. because I think is the easiest way to be governor eventually and also because as for spring court. Just as Gabor said to drill a hole in the Lieut. Gov.'s duties. By and large, depend on the largesse of the governor to some extent than you are a member of the state Board of Education you have other member boarding commission memberships for which you have some power your number counsel states you get to vote on things like debt and real estate purchases and things like that. But the general assembly has essentially removed most the Lieut. Gov.'s formal powers, and so it's a position that essentially allows someone who has ambitions to be governor to potentially travel around the state network and build a campaign war chest for a later run for other office weatherstripping governor seems to be the one. This is preferred by these candidates.

The it's a crowded field because it will be an open race, but I think what's very interesting is that some of the people who were on that list. For instance, current superintendent of public instruction, Mark Johnson, who abandoned that after that job after one term to run for Lt. Gov. former member of Congress Rene Elmers is really not raise much money at all and then Scott Stone, the former member of the general assembly who has raised a lot of money and so it's going to be a very interesting is the if anybody gains any traction and if were going to go through it or just run off.

No party's ability governor and I think you described in course accurately but also isn't it true Rick that that person really would take over as governor should heaven forbid something happened to the governor of the state incapacitated in some way. That's right. That's exactly next in line of succession to the governor which causes occasionally interesting situations we had this with the Beverly Purdue a couple of terms ago when she was at the Kentucky Derby at a sorority party when we had a catastrophe happened and nobody could be where she was because she didn't essentially apparently did let people know that she was gone. You had current Gov. Roy Cooper plagues some say some games will he's been out of state traveling because essentially when he's not in the state of North Carolina. This is your Danforth as the acting governor and so you do have these kinds of games that are often played among the two offices to see who's in charge and how much a notification going to give things like that so we can our remaining time here. Let's talk about the U.S. Senate race.

We've got a five person field on the Democratic side, Erica Smith, Steve Swenson, Cal Cunningham, Trevor Fuller and a tool go well on the Republican side Tom Tillis Paul Wright Larry Holmquist Sharon Hudson it's still a thing of the Democratic side, a two-person race between Erica Smith and Cal Cunningham Cal Cunningham has the support of the Democratic establishment spent a lot of money. Erica Smith seems to have more of a grassroots support and is actually done okay with fundraising so that's good to be of interest on the Republican side, Tom Tillis is his race to lose intercourse Carolina journal covering all of these races@carolinajournal.com Rick Henderson is editor-in-chief. Thank you thank you with as much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina journal, honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina journal is free to subscribers sign up Carolina journal.com you'll receive Carolina journal newspaper in your mailbox each month. Investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles who the powerful leaders are and what they're doing in your name and with your money. We shine a light on it all with the stories and angles. Other outlets barely cover but there's a bonus print newspapers published monthly by our daily news site gives you the latest news each and every day lot onto Carolina journal.com once, twice, even three times a day. You won't be disappointed.

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Welcome back Carolina journal radio I Michiko got North Carolina has made great strides in recent years when it comes to reforming alcohol regulations, but could take other positive steps. Joining us to recap what has happened and to look ahead to the future of alcohol. All reform is John Tromp. He is managing editor of Carolina journal eddies also author of steel and barrel book about distilleries in North Carolina walk back to the program. Thanks Mitch so there certainly has been a lot of movement in recent years on changing the rules link to alcohol weapons of the top things you've seen well is distilleries began. They could not sell the product on site and that changed with McCrory while allowing the one bottle that became five bottles of this past year of a bill was passed through through legislature along the soul is much as many bottles as they can, which you know it is great for people want to have a wedding or one of them on a feature of a specific North Carolina spirit also liquor tastings and ABC stores are now allowed to open up bars like technical group.

Technically, there are no bars North Carolina, but they can suck now sell beer and wine, along with her liquor as long as I get the required permits and tastings at ABC stores things like that which goes a long way to helping people in a flooded market and market dominated by the so-called big boys, the gym being scrawled royals and so forth, and it gives them a leg up yet. You know it.

As we talked before were still hampered by monopolistic North Carolina ABC system yes or for people who haven't really followed this the old rules were was very hard for anyone who operated a distillery to be able to sell their own product you mention for a while you could sell one bottle to a customer per year you live now it's unlimited so that has to be a major positive change for people are trying to make a business out of this hole right there was no way that you look at wineries and breweries. They can sell their own products and they basically always have been able to which I think brewery makes but there are breweries who don't can just sell sell from the brewery itself. A distillery would have to go through all the ABC roles get the product in the store just to even get on the shelf.

Now people can come to the distillery and sample they can have a cocktail hour before they can have a shot of warm liquor straight warm liquor which a lot of people just don't really were careful. But it gets them to sell their own product in their own business, which it is is a huge is used up in the unlimited cells in it are big too because they before they would have to track it if you came in about a ball around you Mitch but one ballroom you come back again and you can only do five now.

They got the word about the Burkart credit red tape for the people to buy it by that will, in that it allows these guys it's it's really use for them. I mean Melanie say total reform is needed to take the ABC out of the equation altogether and you know that you get into local board but that's that's another problem but is this through your question, yes, this is been a huge step yet working to get back to future reforms in just a bit, but we been talking about distilleries.

There's also been major change in terms of beer and wine, especially beer. The craft beer industry had a huge gain in the last couple years to write a word. They were limited by, and it took a lawsuit from note an old Mac. There were limited to how much Thomas. I can make and either was up to 25,000 barrels and lot of an old Machen and Noda, for example, were stopping at 24,000 barrels before they had to get a distributor to force the state force them to get a distributor which John Marino Machen argued that it takes away their branding. They wanted to do their own thing they want to distribute themselves. All this allows them up to hundred thousand barrels or were they can make with and they're really not to catch that limit the that's that's pretty high up there, but it's the 25,000 was too low and this allows them to operate their business as they see fit, without government strangulation. We're chatting with John Tromp. He is managing editor of Carolina journal and author of the book still and barrel, which is about distilleries in North Carolina, theme seems to be government telling these Brewers vintners distillers how they can operate their business.

It sounds like there's still quite a bit of area where there could be positive reform right.

I think there hampered by these boards. I think the biggest problem with the stills off in a comparatively or a large wine. We blown up world that one of the largest brewer in the South. I believe the problem is with the ABC board seats there hundred 70 boards or so in the state in our 100 count in a one horse town or county and edits and it's odd because like some of the Beach counties. Brunswick County has nine ABC stores and rocking him County is three ABC stores. Mecklenburg is one ABC store it away because one, not not sort the boards and get away because 11 board to what they gotta do is I gotta go to each board and say we please put my product in your store.

Then it's up to them to put in a store and there's political hard feelings, and so on and so forth.

So a lot of these people don't didn't get into the local store. Plus if if you're in math you know you want to put your product in Waynesville. Well, it's up to you to go there safe. We put my product. The source of much more needs to be done and Nero Chuck O'Grady last year.

Had I had a bill to privatize got a hearing that really didn't go anywhere, but the lease is on the table and what he wanted was to get her to to abolish the board out there and there was a cap on the boards another can't be anymore boards so it's The 170 so do the ideas because I get up the piece of the revenue.

What was open up a ABC board here so we could get some of the because that money goes back to the counties of the municipality and that's part of the holdup here is where is that money to come from.

Should the ABC boards go away.

Sounds as if that whatever happens there is a lot of opportunity to make some changes that are to help these businesses flourish. Whether it is the Brewers and getting rid of some of the restrictions or even took to a greater extent, the distillers taking some steps that would get government out of the way and let them operate the prelaw" who is in a happy hour could could help. There's no happy hour North Carolina where they could feature you know distillery for a couple hours is a picturesque opposed all day which is what it is now direct online sales is a big one.

And this is this is come up with some ridiculous arguments against it in in the past. You can't technically North Carolina.

You can't have alcohol shipped to your can't ship it to other states which was hampered which forces these distillers to move to like Maryland or what, wherever I accompany the gift set excise tax coming back home Sunday sales is a big one to that's that wasn't in the original bill but got struck down where you not like I say, if I want a chicken sandwich on a Sunday right like I got a choice to go to Bojangles when you go to Chick-fil-A got us on the path but thought chicken sandwich I can get right with alcohol. I can get so yeah that's a big part of it it it even distillers on Sunday if they were lot open to sell the product would would immensely help help these guys and women were there.

Certainly many more things that could be done. One person is good be watching very closely, as this debate plays out is John Tromp. He is managing editor of Carolina journal author of the book still and barrel about distilleries in North Carolina next month going up thanks love more Carolina journal radio just a moment. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping.

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Even 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina. Journal follow us on Twitter at John Locke in C and at Carolina journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina journal. Don't wait for the morning newspaper. Don't wait for the evening news. It's happening now it's happening here the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal. Have you covered with up to the second information like us on Facebook the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal follow us on Twitter at John Locke NC and at Carolina journal. Who knew you could shop and invest in freedom at the same time it is true online shopping is now a great way to support the John Locke foundation just shop using the Amazon smile program and designate the John Mott foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop Amazon donates money to pass the John Locke foundation Curaao long time to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile is the same Amazon you know same products same prices. But here's what's better. Amazon donates 0.5% of the price of your eligible Amazon smile purchases to the John Locke foundation to try it. Be sure to designate us as the nonprofit you want to support.

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You also support freedom. Don't forget to smile.amazon.com today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mott foundation will go back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko guy University of North Carolina faces continuing questions about its efforts to ensure viewpoint diversity on campus UNC system.

Board of Governors member Steve Long is one of those asking questions in a recent public forum. He noted the importance of maintaining academic freedom. He quoted from accepted standards tied to academic freedom. Scholars and educational officers.

They should remember that the public may judge their profession and their institution by their utterances, hence they should at all times be accurate should exercise appropriate restraint should show respect for the opinions of others and should make every indicate if every effort indicated they are not speaking for the institution and in many instances, I saw that was being violated at UNC Law school long shared one description he's heard about the UNC law school faculty that there were a football team, you have 11 players devoted to civil rights and one to business law and no shirt off I went looked at the profile of the professor that was that case in my loss in my law firm. We had clerks from UNC. They said all that you find all the civil rights courses they want this tough sometimes to get business wars.

Now I know the current Dean is trying to change that. They had three ideologically very leftist beings, and for many many years. So the whole factory is basically gone from being a school eye color club really look but I think the viewpoint diversity is a big problem in the University. I think most of what happens in the universities good our kids are getting good educations were good jobs with their our problems.

Long says viewpoint diversity among the faculty is an important issue.

It's very frustrating to me on how to fix it.

But I've come to the conclusion that it's a structural problem because just to give you an example of what was described to me in order to get a job at UNC law school faculty. There is a committee that the dingle point of hire the person but the candidate has to go around and meet all the other faculty in the heart of the faculty meeting to talk about the candidate will deliver heart because that's only buying the club and I have come to believe that we need to centralize the management of academic institutions so that if you don't have viewpoint diversity. You can go talk to the leader or group of leaders and say you have a problem here. You need to bring in different points of view and I've come to that. I don't think that's actually the solution should be considered thought that Steve Long member of the UNC system's board of governors he's talking about the struggle to ensure viewpoint diversity on campus will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast Locke is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time that's listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation that Carolina journal radio I Michiko guy Harvard University has faced a legal challenge to its admissions process.

Critics contend that the process unfairly penalizes Asian-American students during a recent public lecture at Duke University economist Peter R.

City Caddell discussed his review of Harvard's admissions numbers. He focused attention on a LDCs that's the name assigned to students admitted because there recruited athletes legacy students with a parental connection to Harvard students who appear on something called the Dean's interest list and children of Harvard faculty and staff little over 56% of whites who are admitted are not LDCs, so that means is over 43% of lights are ale DC over 43% white admin trail DC the similar fraction for any of the other three major groups hear African-Americans, banks and Asian Americans is always less than 16%. The other, I think. Absolutely remarkable number they say all these less than 16% about American suspension Asian-American are ale DC that's actually less then what it is athletes over 16% of white admits recruited athletes what is going on here. The blue my moving away when I first thought. Turns out that Harvard has more sports than any other school in the country. Harvard is not the biggest school there more sports. The other school in the country and not only that, they don't give athletic scholarships rights and were not talking about I'm sure there sports that Harvard is stellar hungry football or basketball but sports maybe like crew or something of that nature. But if you keep adding sports, the sports you add are white and privileged. Basically, so it's a failing to okay I could see others little insult anybody in the room all these people are athletes, seasonal, time doing the stuff. It's a big commitment but nonetheless do you think we ought to give automatic admissions to the ceiling to that seems like not the best use of resources, athletic preferences that Harvard might not fit your preconceived notions.

I went to a large public school. I can't. I had no hope of making the soccer team zero okay.

Both my wife and I we got like needs improvement in the running. When we were young. My second son came home from school one day and says why is it that all the kids run faster than like banking the pay off later. Okay why am I telling you this because to be more opportunities to be on sports teams. If you go to small private schools am I can still get to play in the socket. Okay so it all works to your advantage also of their captivity welfare private school offers lots of sports relatively at the size of your school. I think this is really important is that normally we think about holistic admissions take into account the nonacademic stuff as leveling the playing field and it does across race, so we look at those academic ratings. We look at African-Americans their academic ratings are way lower than the whites, and partly because of the way Harvard does its recruitment for students but across races. You definitely want to put less weight on that academic writing to get more of a balancing, but within races. That's not the case within races you actually see the things like a personal writing Windows legacies to great on the personal personal right.

That's not overcoming hardship. Holistic admissions actually within race would seem to actually move us towards more equality. I'm actually concerned about movements away from the SAT in such yes you can buy higher test scores, but action might be easier for you to buy some of these other things you my oldest son.

He worked for free for do computer science professor. One summer you get that job, except through connections and is able to work for free because we can afford to do that those types of things can be bought as well.

That's Duke University economist Peter R.

City can know he's discussing his research into Harvard's admissions data.

He says policymakers ought to look into why such a high percentage of black applicants rank so poorly on academic scores.

That's not all. We also got me to figure out what the heck. These Asian-American families are doing this almost 18% are in the top decile. This is the best that's over twice what it is for white students things they say hello. Love you actually look at the admission rates are not ale DC white students are slightly behind Asian-American students will yeah not doing here as well academically as the Asian American applicants study what happens when you look at applicants from the lowest part of the academic pool light admission) LDCs, a 6.3%. That's actually higher than the average admit rate for white applicants.

It is like 4.95% place like the Duke economist reviewed Harvard's legal claim about the impact of its admissions standards on Asian-American students.

Harvard's claim was that Asian Americans are less multidimensional than whites. Hello maybe a little offensive, but where that came from is those four ratings I talked about upfront academic writing extracurricular rating athletic rating and personal writing. And if you add all those up with you should be adding up in the first place. These are numbers to have any meeting then it turns out that they might be slightly lower when you add them all up. Turns out Asian Americans had much higher academic ratings than whites and that higher extracurricular ratings, but they did have lower personal radiance which I think is already subject to bias and lower athletic ratings so they were multidimensional because they were on the same thing. What would happen if Harvard scrapped its nonracial preferences.

Almost 3/4 of white admits who are ale DC would be rejected if they been treated like other non-ELISA counterparts and from that you can say will open the admit rate look like frail DC applicants with bald 11.4% from 43.6% patient will maybe all those that falls all driven by athletes. Let's assume that all the athletes were rejected as a result of this, what would be admit rate before LDCs 14% would fall from 33 to 14. This is as high as it can be a pretty big pretty big changes here about the preferences. What's remarkable is African-Americans still go down only go down by will only whites to go down to get rid athletic preferences are the other ones go up but get rid of all three race legacy and athlete to I think you go up with this tiny, African Americans go away downthe way down. Asian Americans skyrocket, Asian Americans they lose out because of legacy mapping preferences, they lose out because of racial preferences and then on top of that Harvard rates and worsen the person out personal rating is a penalty for the asking. Asian Americans are just doing incredibly well that's Peter R city auto economics professor at Duke University. He's discussing the impact of athletic and legacy admissions preferences at Harvard overture with North Carolina journal radio in a moment really influence you either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms in the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complain or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse, the envy of every other state research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you are. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors.

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Welcome back to Carolina journal radio and Donna Martinez each year. Some North Carolina public school teachers leave the profession. Leave the system. We know how many leave each year and have at least a glimpse of why to the annual report on the state of the teaching profession that new report has now been released to the state Board of Education. Dr. Terry stoops of the John Locke foundation is here to review the data back to the program. Thank you so there's two different categories is kind of interesting. One called attrition. One called mobility gives a sense the numbers sure well last year.

The attrition rate was 7.5% and the mobility rate was 4.5%, and the fact that the reports fleshes out those two numbers is importance because in the past.

There was one teacher turnover rate that was provided by the states and of course that was much higher because it combined the mobility rates, which is the percentage of the number of teachers that are moving from one public school to another, and the attrition rate of the number of teachers that are leaving the profession and so the fact that the report fleshes out these two numbers and separates them and categorizes them in the ways that that are provided in the report. He is an important point to make because I don't think many people would be concerned about public school teachers moving from one public school to another.

That's just them deciding the one public schools a better fit for them. Then another. It's the attrition rate, the people really concerned about and that's what I think is important to zero in on what your assessment of the rate. What is it mean well that's the real question that everyone wants to ask is the attrition rates a reflection of how teachers feel about the profession and it's really hard to say from the results of this report what we can say is over the last three years. The attrition rate has declined significantly. Three years ago was 8.7% last year was 7.5%. That's a significant decrease.

So that's the first aspect.

The second is the largest category of teachers that are leaving are those who retired and of course if there deciding to retire than they should be able to retire so that isn't the type of attrition that we would normally associate with dissatisfaction or teachers that have ability to be able to leave the profession, retire, and they and they do so really the categories that were most concerned about her teachers that are changing careers teachers that are choosing to teach another states were to or dissatisfied with teaching and that's only around 1600 teachers of the 7000 that left the profession last year so it's a relatively small percentage of not only the number of teachers that left the profession, but the total 95,000 teachers are so that taught in our public schools in 2018 19 Terry if someone leaves the profession and decides after two years, five years 10 years that it's just not there thing I mean is not necessarily a bad thing.

Would we want someone in a classroom who isn't totally committed and wanting to be there. Absolutely not and and that's the good thing. That's the good part about attrition is that there are teachers that don't want to be in the classroom and that frankly aren't good teachers and we should want them to leave and get replaced by teachers that are higher performing one of the real innovations in the report. Since they revised it a few years ago is that it started looking at the gross scores of teachers that remained in the profession and those that left and what the researchers found is that the growth scores. This is the test score growth of students from one year to the next about whether their growing one grade level or not find that teachers that leave have lower gross scores than those who say we want those teachers to leave because of it.

It showing that they are not producing the type of academic results that their peers are producing. And so the fact that they are leaving the profession is actually a good thing. And really, the hope is that schools will then be able to recruit teachers that will replace those ones that will provide a higher quality education for the students that remain in public schools carry way for the past several years have her do a pretty consistent narrative from some of the class I union activists and not the education bureaucracy supporters that well North Carolina teachers just aren't respected by the members of the Gen. assembly and they're not paid well enough and so there leaving the profession in droves. As you mentioned that attrition rate has gone down, but tucked us a little bit about teacher pay and where we were a few years ago and where we are today. Just to give a sense of how much average teacher pay is increased between 2014 and 2019 the average teacher pay is up by 20% and teachers on average are making around $55,000 a year will get new teacher pay averages very soon for this current school year and that does include the benefits. See the significant increase in benefits the teachers have received over that same period. Now, if I were someone that was leading a union efforts.

I would point out the fact that teacher salaries have increased and attrition has decreased and make the connection between the two. You can easily make the argument that the reason why more teachers are staying in the profession is because salaries of increased.

Unfortunately, North Carolina Association of educators doesn't give any credit to the Republican Gen. assembly for raising teacher pay and therefore refuses to make that argument.

Why not I mean I'm befuddled by that because Sam they are essentially a worker rights movement, and if your workers the members of the NCAA are making more money more money each year. Wouldn't you want to celebrate that as a victory for your movement you you absolutely would. But the fact that it's really dominated by party politics in the North Carolina Association of educators has aligned itself with the Democratic Party. Despite its refusal to admit that fact there's plenty of evidence out there that shows that there is a close alignment between the North Carolina Association of educators in the Democratic Party. So the fact that the Republicans have been the ones responsible for raising teacher pay and perhaps lowering the attrition rates is not consistent with their partisan political views and interesting that the bipartisan past state budget the governor Roy Cooper. Vito actually had another teacher pay raise in it and but that hasn't been implemented because he vetoed the budget. That's right now just because the budget was Vito doesn't mean that we won't see an increase in average teacher pay.

It's important to remind the audience the teachers are paid based on experience and credentials, so any increase in the average number of years of experience or the number of teachers that have certain credentials that we pay a supplement for will increase the average, so it's possible that when the data comes out in February sometime in February the Department of Public instruction will release the data for the average teacher pay for the current year, we might see another average pay increase, even though we don't have the budget that either the Gov. or the Gen. assembly wanted to pass Terry you are a former schoolteacher what you say to someone who might be interested in the profession. What what qualities do you tell them are important to have and what about expectations for leading a classroom. Well, a lot of of the best teachers that I have been around will say that it's about relationships with the students and understanding what the students needs are and then creating the curriculum and instruction around those needs. I mean eat and that's really true for anything that when you're dealing with kids, including parenting, for example, a solid relationship with that child will do wonders for the education of that child and course that is exactly what we want here for North Carolina school kids Terry stoops is the director of education studies, the vice president for research, foundation, and tell the time we have for the program and Anna Martinez hope you'll join us again next week for another edition of Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John Locke foundation to learn more about the John Locke foundation, including donations that support programs like Carolina Journal radio sending email to development John Locke or call 166 GLS info 186-653-4636 Carolina Journal radio is the John line foundation airline is maintaining Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are selling those clearly written plan for the station. For more information about the show. Other programs and services of the John line foundation John Locke toll-free at 868 JM would like to thank our wonderful radio affiliates across Carolina and our sponsors. Carolina Journal radio.

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