Turnaround at Home | Jack Hibbs

He gives you the supernatural insights or ability through His Word so that you can turn around and teach your children someday that this is what God has done with us. What I'm going through right now, God's got an answer.

I just need to find it because He's provided it. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Well, how are you doing at providing your children a stronger spiritual legacy than you receive? If you're struggling, don't miss today's conversation with Pastor Jack Hibbs. Our featured resource is the book Turn Around at Home.

Just go to buildingrelationships.us to find out about it and find more ways to strengthen your relationships right there. Gary, you've talked about the power of hearing your father pray for you and your sister when you were young. So as you look at your own life, were you able to build on the spiritual legacy that your parents gave you?

Absolutely, Chris. You know, my dad became a Christian after he and my mother were married about two years later. I told my mother one time a few years later, I said, Mom, why did you marry him? He wasn't a Christian. She said, I know, but God took care of it.

She was right. He became a true Christian. He worked on the third shift in the cotton mill, the textile mill. And so he would come in in the morning and go to bed and sleep while we were going to school. But before we went off to school every morning, he was on his knees beside his bed. He prayed out loud. So yeah, I'd walk by and I'd hear him.

He'd call my name sometimes I'd hear him. So yeah, that just tremendous impact upon my life. Not just his prayer, but you know, his commitment to God and to the church. Positive impact, absolutely. And hopefully I followed the example because we had devotions with our kids at breakfast, just brief at breakfast, but in the evening time longer, you know. And so yeah, I'm deeply grateful for the influence my mom and dad had on my life.

Well, I really like the topic that we're going to talk about here today because I think there are a lot of parents who are really struggling. And Pastor Jack Hibbs is going to come alongside us. He's senior and founding pastor of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills, California. You see him on real life TV, hear him on real life radio, the Jack Hibbs podcast. He and his wife Lisa began a home fellowship.

Listen to this. 33 years ago, they had six people at their house. Today, the church ministers weekly to more than 10,000 on campus and millions around the world through the media. A featured resource is Turnaround at Home, giving a stronger spiritual legacy than you received.

You can find out more about it at buildingrelationships.us. Well, Pastor Jack, welcome to Building Relationships. Well, Gary and Chris, it is an honor to be with both of you. We're blessed.

Thank you. Well, let's start with your love story. How did you and Lisa meet and how did you know she was the one?

That's a wonderful question that I love telling. And first of all, Lisa grew up at Anaheim First Baptist Church here in Southern California. And she's never known anything but the gospel and she's never known anything but being a disciple.

And that will make more sense in a moment. I, on the other hand, had no spiritual upbringing whatsoever. I grew up in a Marine Corps home in San Diego.

It was a very moral home, but it was very much without God. And so when I was 19 years old, I heard the gospel for the first time ever on a Monday night. In fact, it was so transformative.

It was June 20, 1977. I'll never forget it. It almost knocked me off my feet when I heard that God loved me. I grew up in a home where love was not mentioned. My dad was a very silent man unless he was angry.

And so we had no guidance at home growing up, my brother and I. But lo and behold, I came to Christ. Believe it or not, guys, I was actually playing volleyball in Newport Beach on the sand in the summer, and I was working.

I was managing construction crews as long as I had a telephone nearby. And so I was officially at work, but we were playing volleyball, and a friend of mine who's a Christian said, Jack, over there walking by, that is a great Christian girl. I know her from school. And Chris and Gary, I had come to conclude that after accepting Christ, I decided I don't think there's any Christian girls out there that are any different than the girls in the world.

And so I just didn't want to get into a relationship. And Lisa came by and she said hello, and she was obviously beautiful to me, but that wasn't enough. But what happened was, fast-forwarding this, I asked her out on a date, and I thought, well, I'll find out the true colors of this girl here in a moment. I asked her out on a date, and our first date was to a Monday night Bible study at Calvary Costa Mesa with Greg Laurie. And she said yes. I picked her up. While we were in that service, she had to get up and do something. Whatever it was, she left her Bible unattended. And that Bible was worn out, and I looked at that Bible, you guys, and it looked like it was her grandmother's Bible, but lo and behold, it was truly her Bible.

And I tell you, she knew the Word of God, and I was so impressed by her spiritual commitment to Christ that I could not let her get away. And that's how we became one. We were married a year and a half later after that. God's been good.

So we come from two different spectrums of experience, and so that's the premise, by the way, of much of what we minister from and to couples and to families. Yeah. How long have you been married now? We've been married 44 years now. Forty-four years. All right. Well, you got a good start, Jack.

Yes, sir. Now, what's the secret to long-lasting marriage? Well, I mean, this is one reporter's opinion, but I think it's grounded in Scripture. I think the key to a relationship is the same that is modeled after our key experience with Christ. The Bible says in 1 John 1-9, if we confess our sins, He's faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now, that's promise to the believer. John is writing to the believer. But it's a key thing to our relationship with God.

I think it's Norman Grubb who wrote that little book, Continuous Revival. I think if we're walking in that position of sensitivity toward the Lord, we're going to be quick to not only say we're sorry or repent, but we're going to do it. So I think that's key, Chris and Gary, to our marriage, that none of us are perfect.

But when we cross that line or we goof up or we're not as sweet as we ought to be or we're frankly just grumpy, I need to say, I'm sorry, please forgive me. So I really believe that forgiveness and repentance is a key to our married life as it is to our private and personal life with Christ. Yeah, it's interesting you would say that because I've often said that there are two essentials to long-term healthy marriages. One is meeting each other's need for love.

You know, that's where I deal with "The 5 Love Languages" . But the other is dealing effectively with our failures and that involves apologizing and forgiving. So I fully agree with that because none of us are perfect, you know? No, exactly right. Now, a lot of younger people today are waiting longer to get married.

What's your perspective on that? Well, I'm going to sound like a weirdo right now, you guys, but I think you got to get married sooner. As a pastor now for 33 years, we have watched people who get married later in life and they're the ones that have a greater challenge because they bring a lot of set patterns and a lot of set ways that they've nurtured over the decades into a relationship where it's really, marriage is all about ministering to one another and frankly changing. I mean, God brings us together for a purpose and it's tough when you've waited. Now, Lisa and I were young, but I can honestly tell you that we would have gotten married sooner if we knew it was so awesome and excellent. And we understand God so much better having gotten married younger.

You marry younger, you bring less baggage into the relationship. And I would encourage people to pray, be committed to Christ, seek first the kingdom of God, but by all means, get your life going. Get married and watch what God does. It's awesome how He brings the spiritual influence of this single individual and the other individual and He brings their witness together and just multiplies their impact of ministry and of life. And that's not full-time ministry I'm speaking about. It's ministry every day.

God brings two together to not only make them one, but to make them a greater light for His witness. And again, get married sooner, glue together, grow together, experience love and life together. That's the advice that I would say to young people today. Basically, do the opposite of what the young people today are doing. Well, I can imagine a lot of young people who may be listening to us today are going to say to their parents, hey, I heard the pastor say we should get married earlier, not later. That's right. We're going to see how influential you are, Jack, on the response we get to younger marriages.

But a lot of truth to what you're saying, no question about it. This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . If you'd like to hear a past program, take a free online assessment to determine your love language, or see our featured resource, go to our website, buildingrelationships.us. Pastor Jack Hibbs is joining us, and we're talking about Turnaround at Home, giving a stronger spiritual legacy than you received. Find out more when you go to buildingrelationships.us. Well, Pastor Jack, what inspired you and Lisa to write this book we're talking about today?

Turnaround at Home. Well, Gary, it's what I think captures all of our attention as we become followers of Christ, and we begin to look around at the fundamental things that God has laid down in his Word. And that is the structure of the family, and we all know what's going on in the American family today. So we began to see that, and a young man approached us and said, Have you guys ever thought about doing a book on marriage? Because Lisa and I would invite the church to come on out. You know, we'd do a very informal talk about marriage, and we're very blunt and open about that, and we're weaving scripture to all of that. And so, yeah, we took on that project and thought about it, and realized that also in our own lives that there was a story to be told. Because Lisa's got her part of the book, I've got my part of the book, and then we come together at the latter end of the book with actual applications and marching orders based off of experience. And so, Gary, she had a very Christian upbringing, but it was very legalistic, very legalistic.

On the other side, I had nothing, and yet it was a moral home but a godless home. And so when we came together, the opposition, or I should say the opposing views of experience, could either be a great setback to us, or we could give it to Christ and make it something that he works on and he does, and he rounds off the edges, so to speak. And so it just happened where people wanted to hear that, and we began to speak, and then we began to write.

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you did. Let's explain what you mean by spiritual legacy. And what is it, and why is it so important for families? You know, Gary, you've said before where you've experienced the love of seeing your father or hearing your father pray for you. So we, early on, simply as this, saw to it that from our little daughter's youngest ages that I would pray over them at night, and I would speak vocally so that they could hear me, even though they were very tiny, they didn't know what I was saying. And I believe that at that time I was probably starting a legacy mainly for me, a practice, where we began to speak the word of God over them in prayer, and that we would insert Jesus in every possible area of life. I'm a big fan of that, that my kids would grow up understanding that God is everywhere, and so look for him.

And so we saw the power of scripture and how life is dependent upon scripture, and so we made the Bible to our kids something that was really fun and tangible. They could, so to speak, touch the truths of God, and we always wanted to make sure that they saw us praying, they heard us praying. And of course, doing Christianity is a key, so we've included them all along the way. So that, to us, is a nutshell of a spiritual legacy, rather than preach it, which is fine, but you've got to live it before you preach it.

Yeah, so, so important. And I think that thing of praying with your children is just super, super important. In fact, our daughter said to me not long ago, she said, you know, dad, one of the things I remember most deeply is that either you or mom would come to the bed beside me every night and kneel down and pray.

And she said, that's where I learned to pray, you know, so yeah, very powerful. Jack, I run into a lot of parents in my office who are kind of upset with God because they say, you know, we followed God, we had devotions in the home, we took our children to church, we taught them the Bible, but now they've rebelled. And one of the things they say to me is, where did we fail? What would you say to those parents?

Well, you know, that's a very common pain and sorrow that people feel. They feel like they have failed because all of a sudden, perhaps they've raised their children, the children were so compliant and they brushed their teeth and they did everything you said. And then they get to that age that, Gary, you have spoken so clearly about, I don't know, it's 13, 14, 15, where they start challenging authority. And when, you know, I don't think, mom and dad, you know what you're talking about? And all of a sudden there's this wake-up call to the parents, like, where did we go wrong? And it almost seems to escalate.

Now she's staying out late or he didn't call at a certain time or they're in the wrong crowd. Where did we go wrong? And I think we get too hard on ourselves as parents thinking that we did something wrong. Number one, God's grace is huge. None of us are perfect parents. But what we fail to realize is that these teens of ours have entered into that age, whatever it is, of becoming accountable to God for their own faith. And so they're moving out from our umbrella, so to speak, and mom and dad think they've failed. No, I think you've laid the foundation for them that, like the prodigal son, when they wake up, they know that there's a place to come back home. So I want to encourage moms and dads, you didn't fail, I understand, none of us have been perfect parents. But don't underestimate God's ability to take your parenting and do what He did to a couple of fish and some loaves of bread.

He will multiply that in your child's life. But Pastor, you know, it says train up a child in the way that they should go, and when they're older, they'll return. And I want to stress the word return. That verse implies they wandered away. They'll return. They've got an anchor, they've got a lighthouse, they've got a pillar to come back to. Mom, dad, that's our business, is to give them that anchor.

They're going to have that teen rebellion era that might last into their 20s, who knows, maybe even 30s. But they know where to come back to. So don't lose heart, don't give up, love them, don't compromise. Because I think if you stay true, while all the other friends wind up telling them wrong things, and people are saying, well, this and that, and some kind of mamby-pamby advice, when they wake up, like the prodigal son, they know, I'm going to return to my father's house, and maybe he'll just accept me as a servant, but that's good enough for me. Yeah, that's great, you know. He kept the farm going, so there was a place to come home to. Absolutely.

Exactly. You know, Jack, I've sometimes said to parents who are just really feeling guilty about the situation, I remind them that God's first two children went wrong. And they had a perfect father. They had a perfect father, you know. So we can't take responsibility for what our adult children do.

And we're free. And they have to come to that decision for themselves. Now, you mentioned this earlier about the importance of modeling, or living out the Christian life at home.

How important is modeling, and in what areas do you think that might be really important? You know, I think Augustine was the one who said that we need to preach the gospel at all times, and if necessary, you can use words. And I think that's a brilliant thing.

Christianity, true biblical Christianity, is caught maybe even before it's taught. Kids will see it, they're observant, they're watching us at all times, and I mean that as an encouragement. Because I kind of have, you guys, I don't know if it's a mental illness or it's an asset, but I see things in cartoons. All my life, I have seen things vividly.

To me, the sky is very, very blue, and the ocean is very, very beautiful. So parents, that part of us that we are, I think it's great to give our kids that. And growing up in faith, you don't have to preach a sermon to them. You don't have to make them sit down in the living room in front of the fireplace and give them a three-point sermon.

I, because I'm more technicolor in seeing things, I communicated the Bible to our kids by taking them outside, climbing a tree, taking a walk, turning over rocks and discovering the bugs, asking them, Who made these bugs? Why do you think God made these bugs this way? Do these bugs have families? Do they have names? If these bugs were talking to each other, what would they say?

And then they're very engaged and they love that stuff kids do. And then I remind them, you know what? The Bible tells us in the book of Romans that God created nature. He knows everything about these little bugs. And so when they see that, they understand when the day comes when somebody hits them up with evolution, for example, or there is no God, they've got a deep-seated foundation that they may not even be aware of, that all of a sudden the Spirit of God brings that to remembrance. And I know this sounds silly, but it's true. When my kid says at the age of 11, when somebody said, There is no God, the first one that came into their minds was, Wait a minute, God made butterflies.

They're pretty amazing. That couldn't have happened by accident. No, you know what? I think you're wrong. I think God's the Creator God. I think those kinds of delivering truth to people, especially kids, is something that God honors. I know we can say that from our perspective. On this thing of spiritual legacy, what are the characteristics of good spiritual legacy and not so good, or actually bad legacy in this area? Well, Gary, I think that when you break that down into the two categories, good and bad, that when we as parents, even for example, we've set a good standard. We're working on our family. We're doing what we ought to be doing, following the Word and all. The good characteristic is one of those things, for example, because there's so many, one of those things where if I'm upset at Lisa, or if I said something to the dog or to the kids that's not Christ-like, I need to, instead of bearing that, I need to be able to say, Kids, Dad did not use the right words, or I had a bad attitude when I got home from work today, and I'm asking you to forgive me.

I've asked God to forgive me, but it's important that you understand that I'm asking you to forgive me as well. And even in what would be an off-color type of moment where the kids might be questioning what's going on, you can take that and put that in the good category of leaving a spiritual legacy behind, that the reality and the authenticity of my dad or my mom's faith was really practical. The negative part would be to not own any of that, but to say, Well, you know, it's the government's fault. It's your mom's fault.

It's your dad's fault. Always pushing things off to others. The Adam and Eve approach where, you know, it's the woman you gave me. And the picture, kids are so attentive and so bright, they picked that up, that if we were to teach them the negative, the bad spiritual legacy, this is what they come away with.

My mom and dad were Christians on Sunday for a couple of hours, and then the rest of the week, you know, it was a free-for-all. So what the book is all about is making sure, and it's hard-hitting, where this is my life, this is who we are as a couple, and these are the things that we need to overcome. The great thing about our God is that Jesus said the person who is forgiven much loves much.

So there's no one within the hearing of this program right now, Dr. Gary, that can say, Well, that's good for you guys, but you don't know how bad I was or how much I'm struggling with. Oh, no, no, no. Apply the Word of God.

Be authentic. And I just read it yesterday in my daily devotions. God told Israel, You're in trouble with me.

I'm going to send you into captivity. And the number one reason was this. You didn't pass on to your children and your children's children the great things I did by delivering the children of Israel out of Egypt. You didn't tell them. And so that generation later on grew up.

They heard about God, but it's said there they did not know God. And that, to me, is what we must mitigate as moms and dads. Yeah, yeah.

Makes so much sense. You know, you've created a spiritual legacy evaluation. What can a person or a couple expect to learn by taking this quiz?

Right. The book has a diagnostic feature to it. And one of the things, for example, we mentioned it earlier, is what are your needs? And do you believe that you're meeting your spouse's needs? When there's an argument or the relationship is stressed, the questions are there. Are you quick, or are you not so quick to seek forgiveness or reconciliation?

What are the steps about going through that? And Gary, Chris, we wound up interviewing—we changed the names to protect the guilty— we interviewed five different couples who came from various backgrounds and various challenges, and they're part of the diagnostic process of this book. Because there's a couple, for example, that they were at a party, they were not Christians, and they did everything wrong.

They got together that night, they were drunk, they got pregnant, and in three weeks they were married. And my goodness, everything that is crazy, this couple is in the book saying, This is how God turned it around for us. And so with each manifestation of scenario, there's a diagnostic process by which you can say, Wow, I identify with this couple, or I identify most with these two couples, and this is what I'm to do regarding us getting on the right track and leaving to our family a spiritual legacy that they can lean upon and live by.

Yeah, I think that's one of the strong points of this book, is the fact that you do have these illustrations and the quizzes that help people make this practical. Thanks for joining us today for Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. You can find us online at buildingrelationships.us, where you'll find more simple ways to strengthen your relationships. Our featured resource today is the book by Pastor Jack Hibbs and his wife Lisa, Turn Around at Home, Giving a Stronger Spiritual Legacy Than You Received.

Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. Pastor Jack, you talk about having a strong emotional legacy. Can you define that and then give us illustrations of how this can be lived out in a family?

Yeah, again, I keep saying this is one reporter's opinion. On my side, Gary, I grew up in a home that was, again, very non-engaging. Never heard the word love. Touch was not experienced.

It was very sterile. And so because of that, on top of the fact I stuttered very profusely, my dad was very impatient about that. So I grew up craving some sort of context, some sort of relationship. And so because I think for me, my action was to either create some form of situation where I got some kind of attention or stuff it, you know, just bury it. But when you bury things, then you can become very emotionally explosive.

And that's what happened to me. As a very young boy, I became very, very emotionally expressive. And as I got older, again, this is pre-Christ days, I became a very violent person. And so that was, later on, thank God in Christ, I was able to see that the model, the picture that I inherited, that legacy that I inherited was something that is not to be emulated.

And then here's where the fight begins, right? I think every Christian can agree that once you come to Christ, you know, He gives us a new heart, but we have to renew our minds in the Word of God. And I began to see the victory over those dark parts of my life was the Word of God washing away, or at the very least containing. In other words, bringing every thought into the captivity of Christ became part of my discipleship experience with Jesus.

So that's why I'm a big fan. If you've had the worst life handed to you, I'm a big fan of your life to see what God's going to do. Because again, He takes these great setbacks and makes them tremendous victories to His glory, to His honor. And our God is so redemptive in what He does that for me, the violence, the anger, everything that was bottled up inside of me, God later showed me after I came to Christ that when these things attempt to rise up, you can bring this thought under my authority, Jack.

And I'm telling you, Gary and Chris, that was so liberating for me. There's so much power in the Word of God if we just ingest it and then let it go. It's just an amazing way to live. And so encouraging. And I think including your own illustrations in this book is just so, so encouraging for those that grew up in a home where they didn't have a healthy pattern. Now, on the emotional legacy part, you also have an emotional legacy evaluation.

So how can this help individuals in processing emotions? Well, as individuals, you know, we come into this marriage that we've been talking about, and we're both different people. You know, we meet each other and we love the differences. And oh, you know, they're so wonderful. He's so wonderful.

She's so wonderful. And we're celebrating their differences. And then after some time of marriage, if we don't keep a good focus and if we're not watching for the fact that they're supposed to be different. Lisa is different than me.

That was the plan of God. And so rather than opposing, I need to evaluate her strengths and her weaknesses. Not in judgment, but as Peter said, dwell with your wife with understanding. So she does the same to me. What's his strengths?

What are his weaknesses? In that evaluation, rather than kicking against each other, we need to melt and mold into what God and trust God that He's brought us together. So for me, as I said earlier, I see the sky very blue. Lisa sees it the same blue all the time.

I hear this orchestra a certain way, and Lisa understands it a certain way. These things that cause us to be different, we must evaluate the fact that God knows what He's doing. He brought us together. And though we see things differently, it's actually to our strengths. It's not to our dividing. It's to the emboldening of our marriage, not the destruction of our marriage. And again, when people get their eyes off of the purpose of God, then you guys know well, we start hearing excuses like, Well, you know, we used to love each other. We don't anymore. We used to have so much in common, but now we don't.

Well, God didn't make a mistake. It's because we've gotten away from His model. And so I want to encourage every couple that's out there, if you just get back to understanding where is my spouse different than me? Write those down, evaluate those, and wind up actually celebrating those things, that that's what really glues your marriage together and can make it very strong.

I think that's one of the keys in having a long-term healthy marriage, is we have to recognize the differences and realize they're never going to be like me. But we're a team. We're not enemies. Let's talk about social legacy.

What is that, and why is that critical for us to understand, and how important is this in passing along health to our children? Well, I think this, the social part of who we are as believers and who we are as couples, is something that you can't mention the word social without it being observable. This is the witness.

For me, that particular category, Gary, is fundamental to the Christian witness. Witness to one another, our witness to the kids, our witness to our neighbors, and certainly the witness to our Christian family. And so this manifestation of who we are, Lisa and I practice hard to be the same people. We don't have to try to change ourselves.

We just believe that we should be the same couple that we are privately as we are publicly. And again, going back to the word consistently and the consistent witness that the world out there, Paul the Apostle said, that technically, really, that our love should be acknowledged by the world around us. They may not understand our gospel message, but they know that we are legitimate, that we are authentic. So in the social structure, communication, getting involved. Now, I'm a pastor, so one of the greatest areas is to get involved in your church. Christianity works best when it is in action. And by nature, our faith in Christ is designed to go public.

It is to go social. And that, again, of course, starts in the home, but it starts with one another, and then that emanates outward to how we relate to others. And we homeschooled our kids, Gary and Chris, back in the 80s when in California, we thought that the SS officers were going to knock on our door any moment.

Homeschooling was like taboo in those days. But when somebody found out, they would always say, oh, what about the social issue of your children? Well, we only knew church life in our marriage relationship, and so we naturally integrated our children, as with ourselves, into serving one another. Our kids grew up learning that service is part of the Christian experience. That's a very social thing. Of course, it starts with the marriage.

It's something that they'll observe from mom and dad, and they're going to replicate. Yeah. Yeah, I think the church can certainly be an asset to parents. The church can't take the place of parents. Right. But the church is a place where, you know, you get confirmation, the children get confirmation of what they're getting in the home. And as you said, opportunities to serve exist in the church setting.

Yes, yes. This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, Pastor Jack Hibbs is talking about turnaround at home, giving a stronger spiritual legacy than you received. You can find that resource at our website, buildingrelationships.us.

Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. We were talking about social legacy before we took the break. What are some of the leading indicators that we should be looking for in our children or trying to instill in our children that will give them a foundation for building their own social legacy? Yeah, I firmly believe, we firmly believe that when we are communicating to our children from the youngest ages, I want to make sure I understood correctly on this, that we don't approach the Bible toward our children in the way of stories. I don't like the story of David and Goliath when we're trying to build the character of our children. I don't like the story that there was a great flood and Noah got in a big boat with some animals. We've never taught our kids that they're stories. We teach our kids, we taught our kids, we're teaching our grandkids that these are actual events. It's not a story.

This really happened. And so the foundation, first of all, must be, in my opinion, the actual veracity and validity of God's Word. These things, as Romans 15, 4 says, were recorded and written down for our learning that we through patience might inherit the promises of God. So when we teach our children, these are not stories.

When you go to school tomorrow and somebody is bullying you or it's not going right, understand this. That God really did deliver David when his soul was so downcast and David was so depressed. He hoped in God. That's not a story. It is a reality. So it's big in our family and so it's big in our church. You guys, we actually have apologetics for our children's ministry as young as first grade. That's important to us. Kids, why do you believe what you claim to believe? Can you explain that?

Why is that true? And we tell them, you know, the world says this. God says this. So when the child understands, hey, my God is absolutely real.

He really did these things. It's like Daniel 11 32 says, those who know their God shall carry out great exploits. We're fans of that truth. And so, again, almost sounds bad to say it. Don't teach the Bible as a story.

These are real actual events that were given to us that we might build Christian character from the earliest of ages. I don't know, Jack, that I've heard anybody say that exactly that strong, but I fully understand what you're saying. I fully agree with what you're saying. We do talk about generally just Bible stories in a Bible storybook.

That's a great point. Now, you give three steps for parents to take in order to give their children something better than they received. Talk about those steps as the looking back and looking up and looking ahead.

Explain those to us. Well, just real quickly, simply put, I think we would do ourselves a great disservice if we look back at our past and just nixed it out. We annihilated it, maybe because of pain or maybe because of hurt that we just won't think about it. That's a sense of denial. But somebody might say, well, Jack, aren't we supposed to forget those things that are behind and press forward? Yes, of course we are. But the meaning is that we're not to have the past control us.

We're to learn from that past. And so that carries us into the present. This is what God has done. This is what He's doing now in my life.

You know, it's a very powerful thing, Gary and Chris, for someone to ask. I know we might get terrified at this thought, but for somebody to say to us, hey, what's the Lord doing in your life? What's God saying to you today? That the present time God is actually writing down in the Malachi 3.16, there's an account that He is writing down of remembrance concerning those who trust and believe in Him.

And so the right now matters. But if I don't rightly approach my past and unpack it in Christ, I'm going to be a denier. And then I'm never going to be able to deal with what's happening right now in my moment because I don't have any fix.

I don't have any answer. And then if I don't deal with that, it's going to carry into the future. Now, thank God if we lay it out before the Lord, and I hope the book shows people how to do that, when we look to the future, we can look to the future with assurance because this is what He did regarding my past.

This is what He's doing now. I have total confidence that He's not going to bring me this far and drop me off. He's not going to abandon me in the wilderness.

Everything that He started, and this is very personal for me, everything that He started in my life, He's going to finish it. So Gary, on December 24, 1957, my mom attempted an abortion. I didn't find that out until I was a junior in high school. When I became a Christian, all of that began to make sense. And then as life went along, those things that were setbacks, I stuttered.

It turned out that I was supposed to be an abortion and that I never really fit in. Oh my goodness, becoming a Christian answered the past, it answers the now, and it gives me absolute confidence about the future that what He's promised, He's going to fulfill. And I think that positive, God-biblically strengthened position, it's not human motivation. It's my identity in Christ. It causes me to know that He's faithful. And if I know He's faithful, then I don't have to worry about what's coming. He's got us through all along the way.

He'll finish it off. Wow, so important to deal with the past and obviously interface with God daily. And the confidence builds as you do that for the future, for sure.

Yeah. You have an at-home ministry in your church. Tell us what that is and how does this help marriages and families?

Yeah, it's pretty broad. First of all, at home, the vision behind that is to take what is taught biblically and make it a reality in your home. And we have many steps on how to do that. We have aids and we have assist programs to teach a father how to be a father.

A lot of fathers didn't really have a father. How to be a husband. What does it mean to be a provider? What does it mean to be a protector?

And we love this one. What does it mean to be a priest in your home? Where we teach men, for example, how to lead your family in spiritual matters. And you don't have to be Billy Graham.

A lot of men are defeated before they even get out of the gate thinking, Well, I'm not a Gary Chapman. I can't do that. Listen.

Yeah, you can. And this is how you do it. And so for wives, family, kids, from entertainment to outings, we believe it's a full service approach. Because frankly, as a church, if we're not nurturing the family, then our church has an expiration date on it.

It's not going to survive. God's church is a God-ordained, God-given reality. Well, so is the family. And the family is the key to our nation. It's the key to our church.

So that being the case, at home really is what it says. Christianity at home. If that happens, you're going to be involved in a great church. If that happens, you're going to have an amazing experience in your neighborhood. If that happens, you're going to see mom and dad nurturing a wonderful marriage. And these kids are going to be experiencing the fact that Christianity, again, is not on Sunday.

It's every moment of the day. Pastor Jack, as we come to the end of our time together, in the light of all that we have said in this program and the message you have in this book, what would you say to parents who are listening and perhaps struggling? What encouragement would you give them, and what steps can they take to break out of a sense of defeat? That's an excellent question.

So to all of you that are out there, I want to first of all say, with no humor to it, I mean it sincerely, it's join the club. You are not some sort of a misfit parent, and you're in this situation to where you don't see how this is ever going to get turned around. You need to understand the nature of your wonderful God. He takes those moments that you right now feel total despair, you feel like you've failed or you're failing now, and all He has ever asked us to do is turn to Him. And that very thing that you see as insurmountable, this is why we love the biblical accounts of great moments of Scripture. He gives you the supernatural insights or ability through His Word to get through that challenge so that you can turn around and teach your children someday or your neighbors or friends that this is what God has done with us. So just the fact that you're battling right now, you need to write that battle down on a piece of paper, surround it with Scripture, go get answers from the Bible, and understand this is not the end of the road for me. What I'm going through right now, God's got an answer.

I just need to find it because He's provided it. Well, Jack, I think this book will be used of God to help many couples move in the right direction. I want to thank you for being with us today. I want to thank you and Lisa for spending time investing and writing this book, because I think God can use it and God will use it to help couples continue to move in a positive direction. So thanks again for being with us today.

Gary, Chris, thank you. And if you want to find out more about this excellent resource by Pastor Jack Hibbs and his wife Lisa, go to buildingrelationships.us. The title is Turn Around at Home, Giving a Stronger Spiritual Legacy Than You Received.

Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. And next week, a brain surgeon gives a prescription for hope, no matter what trauma you're going through. Don't miss Dr. Lee Warren in one week. A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing, and a special thanks to Matthew Heyman for his help. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago, in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry at Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.