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Empty Nest, Full Life

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman
The Truth Network Radio
November 16, 2019 7:03 am

Empty Nest, Full Life

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman

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November 16, 2019 7:03 am

​As a parent, you’ve dreamed of having an empty nest. But when the last little bird flies, it can bring grief along with the joy. On the next Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author and speaker Jill Savage says those conflicting feelings are normal. Marriage struggles you didn’t know were there many times surface. How do you handle all the changes? Don’t miss Jill Savage on the next Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.

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You poured your life into your children you help them launch into life as adults.

Now what you do this season of life is a mission field. Who are you going to minister to. What are you going to focus your efforts and your energies on because there is so much possibility in front of welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York bestseller, the five love today.

Jill Savage gives help and hope to those who have reached the empty nest stage and are struggling dream this day would, now you have more questions about what a hard place to be and you can feel guilty for having a hard time with our guest benefited resource offering figure Jill Savage will join us. Five love you'll see the book empty nest life again. Just go to five love

As you know we have two children and I remember some of the emotions that Carolyn birds flew the list so really looking forward to our discussion today. One of my vivid memories is the day we left her daughter at college and we walked back to the car and we made the mistake of looking back at her and she was standing there in the in the doorway and also to Carolyn for ever going to craw this will be the time to do it. Try right there in the car. I was the first water stepped out of the nest to go to college but also we would been there. We love it that you're at this juncture, we love it did asked to respond differently though. I mean you both cried. Then, but was it difficult for her as she walked through that next season than that it was for you, you know, Chris.

As I reflect back on that. I don't know that neither one of us went through the depression or anything, nor an art related joy that there go my wasn't sure because we loved our kids love having them there, but I think all along we we prepared ourselves that we are raising these children to release them know the old thing is you give them roots and you give the wings and both of us have talked about that before and so we we were we were prepared I think to let them go.

We sometimes say about our son.

We overdid it with the wings because it's little one is sleeping very often is been all over the world following Jesus and so we don't see him as often, but yeah. And I think that's that's good about our philosophy and you give them roots and then to give them wings but I'm excited about our conversation today with Jill because this is an area in which every couple has children will sooner or later face the time that they leave the home you should say that not every couple because Chris there are those that have special needs children and sometimes those children to be with them through the years until I go to heaven. But this is a very common phenomenon. The empty nest and am excited about talking about and that roots and wings thing. I think that that's a lot easier to talk about or to say or even to understand and then to actually do so. Let's get some help from Jill Savage use the back with us today author and speaker, she's passionate about encouraging moms especially. She's written a number of books we talked about in here no more perfect moms my hearts at home real moms real Jesus. Today's resource is empty nest, full life, discovering God's best for your next Jill and her husband Mark have five children and that their somewhat empty nest is in normal Illinois. Find out more.

Five love Jill welcome back to Building Relationships.

Always good to chat with you in looking at the things you've written, and what we talked about together here your journey through cancer and marriage struggles and all you dealt with, you really tried to be real about all of the hills and valleys that that you've gone through. Haven't you and I appreciate I really have. I think that's really important and you know I really can't capitalize down where I live. I live in normal, Illinois, and so really my ministry and the ministry. My husband and I have to gather is helping folks to understand what's normal.

What's normal on parenting and how do we navigate that God's way. What's normal in marriage even when it's hard how do we navigate that and that's really what I'm trying to do with empty nest full life is that help moms know what is.

What's normal to deal with in this season of life. But how can we also navigate that God's way. So this topic and estimating everybody here the term thrown around but toes where it came from. From your perspective and what really drew you to write this book. You know what I know. I was struggling to rip myself and it was really interesting because we have five children and they range over a 13 year range, which means that I've been doing this mother had thing in this parenting thing for over 30 years and the first when Kenneth flew off to college and we actually adopted the same year that she left for college, so I was a little you know I just was a little distracted from that leaving as we had this new little nine-year-old and her family and others, kind of, you know, flew off here and there and then they'd come back for a little bit but it was about a year and half ago because almost 2 years ago that our son graduated from college and when he graduated he got married two weeks later and all of a sudden the nest was really empty and just.

I wasn't quite prepared for the grief that I would experience, and that really was a place where I ended up unite as I have done for so many other areas of my life. I turned to God's word in Ecclesiastes Ecclesiastes chapter 3 there's a season for everything. A time to laugh, a time to cry and I was reading the message version and one of the things it said is a time to let go and a time to hold on all. I just had this real sense of peace over me and I said Lord. This is what I need to learn how to do please show me what it is I need to let go live and what it is I need to hold onto. Really, that became my journey and ultimately that became the layout of the book because the first half is the things that we need to let go of as as moms, as parents and then the second half are the things that we need to hold onto and all that God has for us in this next season of life with fathers children five children in different age range of any of them flown out of the nest and then flown back for a while we call the bungee cord kiddo, the world did you know I was actually I did some research on that and now I can't remove are the exact numbers that I want to say that in the 1980s. It was like 21% of kids came back to the home and now it's like 51%, so it may change over. You know the last 40 years or so and so I really think that we need to understand that and we've had our kids come back for a variety of reasons. Of course those that were in college sometimes came back for the summers are you know until they either got married or went off on their own, but I we had two of our married children come back and live under our roof for a short season of time.

We certainly were anticipating that our one daughter and her husband and two children. He got a new job in our community and they were moving and they weren't able to sell their house and then turn around and rebuy as quickly as they wanted to they needed to save a few months and said they lived with us and you know, so we talked about that emptiness for life how you come up with some agreements that work for your family. What what will the rent situation be and I'm a firm believer that every child that means that companies be paying rent now. It doesn't have to be market value, but when you live somewhere cost something so I don't think we do our kids any favors. When we don't require of them to contribute to that definitely does bungee cord kids are our thing and I think one of the things we have to do is know how to handle that in a way that will set us up for success deal with all of the book is empty nest full life was talking about the full life part drugs later. Well I think a lot of times, parents, and I will say, particularly mothers. We really feel like life is over when were done parenting just you know you you been doing the same for so long. Like you said I was doing it for 30 years.

That's a long time. You have habits of the way that you relate to your children and you have to change those so that you know was that was definitely very difficult but I think that what I really want moms to understand is that there is so much possibility in this new season of life.

You're not over this show is not done, but you have completed one part of the show. The curtains come down now the curtains coming back up and you have an encore. How are you going to use that encore and so I really try to cast a vision for moms and dads to recognize that this season of the life is a mission field. How are you going to use that mission field.

Who are you going to minister to. What are you going to focus your efforts and your energies on because there is so much possibility in front of you. I like to hope that their listeners are hearing that the girls let's face it, for many of them like another half of life to live for God is like the most of the earlier conversation we were talking about letting go and holding on to look so global about that letting go part is an empty Nestor what's been the most difficult part of the process of well I thinking out there's different things, of letting go. For instance, I think we need to let go of expectations. I think as parents. Our tendency is to have the expectation that our kids are going to want to connect with us as much as we want to connect with them and sometimes that isn't the way it is. For instance our kids. Of the five I probably talk to my girls.

We have two daughters, three sons talk to my girls almost once a day maybe once every other day my boys. I talked to one of them once a week. One of them once every two weeks and if I hear from the third one once a month.

It's a good month now. All those are normal but see we have to let go of expectations that it looks a certain way, you know, we can look at that and say my child rejecting me. They don't want to talk to me we can say child is flying on their own and this is this is the pattern of communication that works for them. So letting go of those expectations, we have to let go of traditions you know that when the holidays roll around.

All of a sudden, especially if your kids are married and they now have another extended family to consider those expectations of the holidays may need to change what they've always come to her house and that we gotta get rid of the always statement, and those are going to rock the relationships and a wrong direction is about four years ago we did not spend Thanksgiving with a one of our five children.

We had a couple of them that were this was their time to go to the in-laws. They alternated and we had one that was way far from home he wasn't to be able to come home.

We had another one that we knew they were going to go to the extended family. On the other side in town can make it ours if we wanted to and then we had that the last one he was can spend time with his girlfriend at her house, but also come to ours and Mark and I talked about it.

We said you know what, let's give all of the kids the gift of holiday freedom and so we literally we said you know what, no Thanksgiving at our house this year, but on Saturday night were having a pizza party and if anybody wants to come over and celebrate the savage Thanksgiving with our pizza party and then will do that and so what a gift that was they could fully enjoy being at the other sides of the family. The kind of things we gotta learn how to be more flexible with and to begin to let go of the kids feel guilty because of its powerful, so no apparent you talk with other parents who are experiencing what are some of the difficulties that other moms talk about were so your mom's book, birds can experience similar feelings they can. I think another one that we have to let go and a lot of mom struggle with this. I think it's a control issue for us that we have to let go of our opinions because we have been accustomed to leveraging our opinions in our children's lives for 20 years and now they need to be making their own decisions, they need to be leveraging their own thoughts and opinions and and unless they ask us. I like to say we now belong to the keep it shut.

Club and and one is the one of the principles I encourage moms with an empty nest. Full life is pray. Don't say that really has helped me personally were used to weighing in on their decisions. We are use to step in helping to rescue them and they need to stand on their own 2 feet now and it is really difficult and so that's a place that I hear a lot of mom say man this is so hard to not say anything to stand back and go hurt really bad or bad consequences going to happen here but really, they've got to stand on their own 2 feet and as my friend Brenda Yoder says don't steal the struggle from them.

Don't steal that struggle toward preparing to know if it was in the movie is going to slave them pay that hard but you know what we started.

We had to learn it the hard way.

Sometimes ourselves and we got a letter kids learned the hard way to you.

Do you talked about this before about allowing your children to fail or fall. It's this knowledge when their toddlers. Not when they're getting married yeah exactly we have to. We talked about it and now my number perfect kids book that we really have to allow our kids yes expect responsibility yes expect obedience, but also expect them to fail at both of those, as well as other things, the brain optimally grows and failure. I mean, they have literally done brain research and it grows best in failure so we don't want to take that growth opportunity away from our kids in the earlier we can actually begin to do that that the easier it is in those empty nest years were we really do have to completely let go. You also talk about letting go of your child's problems should also use it right now. It's not, especially when our kids have an issue and it feels like all we can we can help out with that. And guess what, there are times that yes they do need our help, but there been some times in my husband and I have sorted through this where we realize that our help. Really wasn't helping. It was Ashley enabling and and so you know, let him speak. Parents will say how I know if I'm enabling and I'll say look back at what you've done over the last six months have they made progress and a lot of times that's enough for parents to go. Nope, they haven't their still playing video games on the couch and I haven't gotten a job okay well then you're really not helping, you're actually enabling and it's been hard. You know we we have one child that has had some run-ins even with the law he has made very poor choices at a has been difficult.

He has a lot of mental health issues. It just has broken our hearts, but we've really learned that we actually had to kind of un-entangle ourselves from him.

We have to resist the urge to bail him out.

Whether that's literally bailing him out or trying to assist because most of the time it really wasn't and so you actually have to detach. But here's what we've learned.

You lovingly detach from their problems, but you don't detach from them as a person and see. I think that's what the differences so you know our son when he has had some issues and he has called us to whatever bail him out of jail or whatever the answer is, I'm sorry we can't do that. We love you dearly, but you're going to have to walk these out, but we're here and will and will walk the journey with you.

Hard to do that is so important to the consequences for both the do stand with Gary. I think something just happened there somebody who was there driving down the road and almost drove off the road because somebody a Christian radio said there they have a child that has a problem with the what you whatever that is like a united of the sheriff, the sheriff pulled up in front of the house yesterday or you know that that kind of thing and it's so refreshing to hear somebody say I got kids who are struggling and made some bad choices you not a bad parent for going through that you're part of a club that you don't want to be in right now but but it's it's okay will just one more word that personally drove all the real absolutely politically I mean, I think we have to be so honest about this because you know you can raise your we raised all five of our kids any strong Christian home, but when they step out on their own. They make their own choices and here's what I think is so important that does not define you. That does not define you, your God defines you. He is the same yesterday today and tomorrow your child's appearance. Your child's choices your child's successes or your child's failures do not define you as a parent and you have to resist the whisper of the enemy that tries to get in there and say you know because you feel guilty and cause you to own something that really isn't your stone at your child's own it all from General Motors. The prayer will should. What did we do wrong where did we file that our son or daughter would do this and also look God's first two children were wrong perfect father, you know, our children are free look at what decisions would often going like poor decisions, but certainly fully agree with you.

We have to let them suffer the consequences of their decisions. If they're going to learn it all going to learn through their experiences casts yes and it's hard.

It is really hard to watch that and I think there is nothing wrong with going back and going. Is there something we can learn from from it is something we would do different. Certainly every parent feels some sort of guilt of regret all due to some degree because we hind sight is 2020 we can see better. Looking back, but at that moment, we have to turn the guilt into grace and to recognize I did the best with the knowledge and the experience I had at that point in my life that's really what we have to do, and that guilt wants to creep then and we want to feel bad because you know most of the time, though it's not about what we didn't do. It's about the choices they are personally making it if we do discover that we file them at a particular point is about our model to drink.

We should apologize right yet we sure should we own it and not let them know you know what I now when I look back and you were 15 and whatever you know is going on and I'm realizing I I could have. I could've maybe led you better through that I could listen to better nothing wrong with that. I mean honestly, there are probably some 40 and 50-year-olds listening today that if their parents came along now and their parents are in their 70s and 80s and apologized for something it would heal a place in their heart so yes, it's never too late to own your staff and to recognize those places that we can we can clean up with each other.

Jill, who was the empty nest harder on your mark, I think both of us in different ways.

Definitely I think I think we both miss the energy in the house and we miss the, the laughter for me. I miss several of our kids were musical and I'm musical and I really miss them.

You know going in the front room and and playing the piano. I think we both have miss the energy of that I think she has felt a sense of relief of winter, not to parent anymore. And yes, I've experienced that relief as well. But I do miss it.

I really do and I find myself leveraging that nurturing on particular grandchildren.

Now that we have grandchildren. So I'm I'm still that teacher in me that loved that part of parenting you know really doesn't miss that. But is starting to find it in other areas of life doing the former session we talked about detaching from her children but also loving them at the same time, however, those two things work together what you why. Probably one of the biggest lessons that God has taught me in this season of time is learning to love my kids while I disagree with them. That's hard. If I'm really honest with you some of my love as a parent has been a little has been a little bit more conditional than unconditional. And that's been a growth place for me over the last few years and recognizing I think a lot of time to his parents the way that we love a is going to look different than it did when they're at home, because when they're at home. Maybe we express our love by putting three meals on the table, making sure they had a clean house to come home to our you know maybe was expressed in physical ways.

You are always hugging in and not encouraging them but when you're living a distance from them. That has to change.

Number one, and you have to begin to to find different ways to do that. So maybe I like with one of our sons.

I've just moved a lot more verbal encouragement because I don't see him that often we have one son that lives in Australia so we don't get to connect with him physically, very often at all. So we try to, you know, I try to express that love in a lot of different ways that I could have very different than what I did when he was at home but you also you have to learn how to express that love even when you disagree with your kids and that's that place that I think that many parents struggle because there like if I accept and I and I love my kids there, and I think I'm agreeing with them that they're living with her boyfriend, or there and I think I'm agreeing with them as they you know make other poor choices. You know, we recently had a conversation with one of our our kids, and he said to he said to us you guys don't agree with me but you love me, you have no idea how many of my friends don't have that who are walking out this particular situation and so that was huge and it really was encouraging to me to go okay and finally feel like I'm starting to understand unconditional love is conditional love is all of you if you live life the way I want you to know love you if you live life the way God wants you to that unconditional love is I'll love you no matter what choices you make. You are mine. That's not easy but it really is a journey we have to go on as emptiness parents and that is the way God loves us right goodness sister dies, he doesn't say I'll love you if you know he loves us right where we are not. He doesn't want to leave us there and sometimes we don't leave our kids there. Now we have to really leverage our voice carefully, often times waiting for them to ask, but at the same time. Now we have to we have to take our cues from how God loves us unconditionally, you just mentioned a little bit ago.

Not enabling your children and you know when someone calls you to bail me out of this love too many people in this culture is doing exactly what I want you to do when I want you to. And God doesn't love us that way. Fortunately for us, you know, he allows us to so so the definition of love your your tweaking that for the culture. I think yes exactly what we really have to understand is that sometimes the most loving thing we can do is put a boundary app. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do like with our child that has had some legal issues.

The most loving thing we can do is let him walk out the consequences because that actually is going to be much better for him and the long run.

And so that I think a lot of times that we miss understand what love looks like "truth God's will because God loves us unconditionally, but he lets us suffer the consequence was when we make poor decisions serve as so do let them leave out suitable absolute you so that the emptiness lesion of life has a way of bringing idols surface. Well, it really does.

That's one of the things I talk about needing to let go of. Often times you know this.

One of the idols that I think critically moms deal with is that idol of identity. Thinking that you know my child's appearance. My child's choices. My child's success or not. Success is what's defining me, and when we start feeling that way when we make their decisions and their behavior about us, then what we actually have is we have an idol of identity. And we have used our kids successes or failures to identify ourselves so we've got to be aware of that and we've got to we gotta move that off the throne and put put God back on the throne. He's the one that defines us.

And it's not by anything we do or don't do our kids do or don't do. It's based upon his grace. It's based upon our acceptance of the gospel, but it is not based upon behaviors around us. So that's one idol I think moms struggle with the idol of worry. I think we think if it was an Olympic sport. We would be gold medalist and many of us don't even recognize that that's an idol, but worry is actually the worship of our circumstances. Or you could say worry is the worship of our kids circumstances and we need to move our eyes off of the mountain and onto the mountain mover, the one who can do something about the circumstances, so we need to turn that that fear into faith. We need to turn the worry in the struggle into prayer. It's not easy, then it's a battle that we fight all the time but boy that control peace wants to come in and that's a place that I think even the idol of control letting go of that feeling like it if you know if they'll just do things my way. It'll work out better and we gotta learn to let go.

Those are places that we probably need some spiritual growth. Personally, I think when God gives us freedom. Sometimes we don't get the pictures. Parents, God allows us to make poor decisions even though he loves us extremely well and we can we have to allow our children to micro decisions even though we love them because as you said earlier if they're going to learn they're going to learn through mistakes by Mike and the gorillas.

That's not the worst, best but very true. Can you address some of the challenges that Christian parents and the sandwich generation fighters have young children who are at home or just about to leave home of the also older parents who need their assistance. Yeah, you know, one of the things I do. I talk about in the second half as emptiness for life. We talked about in the first half.

Let go and then what about hold on hold on. In fact, I base it on Isaiah 4319 and I love how it reads in the message version the alert be present. I am about to do something brand-new. It's bursting out. Don't use it love the excitement of that God saying something new for you this encore and so I really try to cast a vision that it is time for you to find your mission field. What is your mission field in your empty nest encore season of life and one of the mission fields that some of us will be on is the mission field of aging parents. And I think a lot of times we don't see it that way we don't call it a mission field we call it obligation we feel like we have to do it, but we feel like it steals from our time. But what a difference if we make that small tweak in our thinking and we consider it a mission field.

What a gift that is outside and walk in this one out.

My father had been ill for about the last 18 months, and they live 2 1/2 hours from us and I've been making trips over about every other week for the last 18 months, sometimes seen as long as a week at a time and about six weeks ago he passed away and I am so grateful that I had the margin of the emptiness season of life to be able to be there and help care for him. I'm glad I have the margin now in the emptiness season of life to help my mom adjust to a new normal and so seeing that as a mission field. I think changes the way the heart thinks about it and many of us need to do that when you talk about your father you're visiting him reflected on Thomas my mother shook my mother to be the last nine years, and suitors with around-the-clock but I went down every week and when she was able to go out to lunch and so forth. But I made sure that my two adult children knew what I was doing something about being moms place very goes up to you know it's a biblical footing that we care for aging parents choose God planted you're right in the emptiness years. It's easier because Miller loose you're not having to care for your children on a regular basis right and you know what I love what you just shared there because really we are still role models for our adult kids.

We are still role models for our grandchildren for those around us. We have to recognize that we have influence simply by the way, that were living our life so your your years of influence are not over just begun.

I really think we we we undermine and we minimize the ministry that can happen in the emptiness tears story Gary about you and your mom told me about that and she was dealing with the budget sheet she remembered you would. She would say my son to you, but every call you take her to the restaurant you get the same thing with Lobato. The barbecue house with sperm shows for your heart. Joel Savage's book is our featured resource empty nest full life discovering God's best for your next you can find out more about it. Five love five love more hopeful words are coming up here on the radio emptiness storage often reveals weaknesses or struggles in the marriage that maybe weren't apparent when the kids were in the house. How do you deal with these problems that surfaced which are rooted in quote expect yeah I mean it really is a common issue and I think with our kids have been a bit of a buffer for us. They've been a bit of a distraction.

We've done a lot of standing side-by-side and kind of helping move this child forward, but now there's nothing that were moving forward and we kind of you know Pip it and look at each other and go.

Who are you hide, I'm not even sure and I think unfortunately we have a lot of couples you know Mark and I have a thriving marriage ministry we are marriage coaches and we do marriage retreat since we spent a lot of time with married couples, but we are personally seen this increase in what we call silver divorces and these are people that are married, 25 and 30 and 35 years and you know the kids are now launched and then there going their separate ways and I think that what we need to help couples understand is if you feel miles apart when your kids launch that is a normal thing to happen, especially if you haven't intentionally invested in your marriage but it doesn't mean you have to go separate ways you can close the gaps you can use this new season where you have a little bit more white space and you have a little bit more time and energy. Maybe even a little bit more finances to maybe get the marriage counseling. You should've gotten 10 years ago to maybe invest in a marriage coach that can help you in the right direction set that maybe you can take in marriage retreats and events that help you to learn about each other. Maybe it's time to actually start dating again and getting to know each other. Once again, you think you know your spouse, but do you really know what's going on inside their head in their heart and so you know we have shared our marriage journey very openly and are we had a horrible crisis about eight, nine years ago, including infidelity. We were miles apart and God closed that gap with both of us being willing to do the hard work to do that so that's my encouragement is that you know she certainly emptiness can reveal marriage struggles but those marriage struggles can be move forward and Mark and I now wait we talk about the before the emptiness season that was Mark and Jill 1.0 and now after our crisis and in the emptiness season of life were Mark and Jill 2.0 and we like to point out a lot better if I could also the way we treat each other is also having a tremendous influence on our adult children casts. You remember the time our son came open college and he said to put one handle Marshall Romano's mother's children looked us in the agencies that only going to go to string together a grid which shared with him or struggles in the early years of these five friends at college that did not go home this Christmas because their parents are separated since I left for college, and I don't know which one to go to sugar not going home hearts. Sometimes we think well you know the kids are going to divorce.

You know, normal, hurtful, it always hurts everybody has not done much when my people feel badly been divorced and remarried undersigned, there's always struggles when that happens it's worth the effort to do what you just described for us to work on the relationship that we can both preach about that we can really talk a lot about the struggles of this book the one about the positives like new friendships or new opportunities is all emptiness.

Please also exactly in the new mission fields. You know that's really what the second half of emptiness for life is about is really casting a vision. One of the things I encourage, I encourage moms to do is to audit of your life taken evaluation what experiences have you had where have you had pain and now, how could God use that pain for his purposes in a way to encourage others to do it on national radio like we do. I mean it you can do it sitting across the table with a cup of coffee with someone and and you know leveraging that experience in a way that helps someone know they're not alone. So yes, there's that new possibilities of of ways that we can influence the world around us is completely different possibilities. I'll tell you something that's been new in the emptiness season for us is that we started hosting air B&B and our home and we had empty bedrooms and Mark and I love hospitality and were like this brought in a little bit extra income, and here's what we found. It brings the mission field to our living room and we thoroughly enjoyed it and so that's something we've decided to do you take There in the emptiness season of life. Others pick up new hobbies they find new friendships and maybe other empty nest couples. So just really taking a look what was it that was that you put on the back burner when you started raising your kids. Is it just one time anymore to those of the things you want to bring back to the front burner. What have you had maybe interested in. In recent years, but you just haven't had time to pursue it bring back in so personally. There are so many opportunities and if you're married as a couple. There are so many possibilities of things that you can be involved in in that emptiness season of life. Like the most of it before leave. One of the group. I will talk about is what about the young adult who is trying to fly.

You know they are trying to be, but the peril is not navigating this really were murder were filled with the parents holding old.

How does the young adult respond to the parents.

I know I think the first thing is probably some compassion you know, because really having some compassion for that parent to recognize they been doing this for 20 some years and it's not easy to stop doing something after you been doing it for 20 years and so I would say the first thing that I would encourage that that young adult is to have a little bit of compassion, maybe even if you choose to have conversation include the compassion in the conversation, you know mom I know it's hard for you to let me go.

I know it's hard a date you noted to even think of me being out of my own. I want you to know I know that but I also want you to know I'm going to be okay and I believe you're going to be okay inserting that 10 and having some grace and compassion in any of those conversations that needs needs to happen and and sometimes they may just have to you know they have to stand firm in some of their boundaries. You know they may have to say to the parents you. Maybe their newly married and they now have.

You know both sides of the family they have to do Christmas with Thanksgiving with and they make they have to say. I want you to know that together my spouse and I have decided that were not alternate holidays and here you know they make the parent may not take that well, but their job is to leave and cleave and so they may need to stand firm in some of the boundaries they sat but they can do that with grace and compassion, loving conversation with Jill.

This is been a wonderful conversation in this book is going to lead a real mood and the lives of parents who are going through the emptiness primarily its addressed avail.

Think of a young person who is leaving the master prophet who really was as well or more in prophetic with her parents are clearly thanks for being with us to work. Thank you for having me refreshing take on the Jill Savage will find out more about her latest of five love empty nest, full life, discovering God's best for your five love you can hear the broadcast again will suggest someone else. Five love next week. Unlikely people call the story of the birth. Dan Darling will talk about Christmas for me go, let me thank our action team Steve with Janice Todd and thank you for listening. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman radio in association with ministry

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