Empty Nest, Full Life

You've poured your life into your children. You've helped them launch into life as adults.

And the nest is empty. Now what do you do? This season of life is a mission field. Who are you going to minister to? What are you going to focus your efforts and your energies on?

Because there is so much possibility in front of you. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, Jill Savage gives help and hope for those who have reached the empty nest stage and are struggling.

You dreamed this day would come and now you have more questions about what's ahead. That's a hard place to be and you can feel guilty for having a hard time with this season, but I think our guest and our featured resource is going to help. Author and speaker Jill Savage will join us. If you go to FiveLoveLanguages.com, you'll see the book Empty Nest, Full Life.

Again, just go to FiveLoveLanguages.com. Well, Chris, as you know, we have two children and I remember some of the emotions that Carolyn and I had when the birds flew the nest. So I'm really looking forward to our discussion today. One of my vivid memories is the day we left our daughter at college and we walked back to the car and we made the mistake of looking back at her. And she was standing there in the doorway and I said to Carolyn, if we're ever going to cry, this will be the time to do it. We both cried right there in the car. That was the first one who stepped out of the nest to go to college. But yeah, so we've been there.

We love it. You know, at this juncture, we love the empty nest. Did you two respond differently though? I mean, you both cried then, but was it different for her as she walked through that next season than it was for you? You know, Chris, as I reflect back on that, I don't know that neither one of us went through, you know, deep depression or anything, nor elated joy that they're gone. And that wasn't true either because we loved our kids and loved having them there. But I think all along, we prepared ourselves that we are raising these children to release them.

You know, the old thing, you give them roots and you give them wings. And both of us had talked about that before. And so we were prepared, I think, to let them go. We sometimes say about our son, we overdid it with the wings because he flew away. We don't see him very often. He's been all over the world following Jesus.

And so we don't see him as often. But yeah, and I think that's kind of been our philosophy. You know, you give them roots and then you give them wings. But I'm excited about our conversation today with Jill because this is an area in which every couple that has children will sooner or later face the time that they leave the home. You know, I should say not every couple because, Chris, there are those that have special needs children. And sometimes those children are going to be with them, you know, through the years until they go to heaven. But this is a very common phenomenon, the empty nest. And I'm excited about talking about it today. And that roots and wings thing.

I think that's a lot easier to talk about or to say or even to understand than to actually do. So let's get some help from Jill Savage. She's back with us today. Author and speaker. She's passionate about encouraging moms especially.

She's written a number of books. We've talked about him here, No More Perfect Moms, My Heart's at Home, Real Moms, Real Jesus. Today's resource is Empty Nest, Full Life, Discovering God's Best for Your Next. Jill and her husband Mark have five children and their somewhat empty nest is in normal Illinois.

Find out more at FiveLoveLanguages.com. Well, Jill, welcome back to Building Relationships. Thanks.

Always good to chat with you. And looking at the things you've written and what we've talked about together here, your journey through cancer and marriage struggles and all you've dealt with, you've really tried to be real about all of the hills and valleys that you've gone through, haven't you? And I appreciate it. I really have. I think that's really important. And, you know, I've really kind of capitalized on where I live.

I live in normal Illinois. And so, really, my ministry and the ministry my husband and I have together is helping folks to understand what's normal. What's normal in parenting and how do we navigate that God's way? What's normal in marriage, even when it's hard?

And how do we navigate that? And that's really what I'm trying to do with Empty Nest, Full Life, is to help moms know what's normal to deal with in this season of life, but how can we also navigate that God's way? So this topic, Empty Nest, I mean, everybody, you know, you hear the term thrown around, but tell us where it came from from your perspective and what really drew you to write this book.

Well, you know what? I was struggling through it myself. It was really interesting because we have five children and they range over a 13-year range, which means that I've been doing this motherhood thing and this parenting thing for over 30 years. And the first one kind of flew off to college and we actually adopted the same year that she left for college. So I was a little, you know, I just was a little distracted from that leaving as we had this new little nine-year-old in our family. And then the others kind of, you know, flew off here and there and then they'd come back for a little bit. But it was about a year and a half ago, I guess almost two years ago, that our son graduated from college.

And when he graduated, he got married two weeks later. And all of a sudden, the nest was really empty. And that just, I wasn't quite prepared for the grief that I would experience. And that really was a place where I ended up, you know, as I have done for so many other areas of my life, I turned to God's Word. It ended up in Ecclesiastes.

Ecclesiastes chapter three, there's a season for everything, a time to laugh, a time to cry. And I was reading the message version, and one of the things it said is, a time to let go and a time to hold on. And all of a sudden, I just had this real sense of peace over me. And I said, Lord, this is what I need to learn how to do.

Please show me what it is I need to let go of and what it is I need to hold on to. Really, that became my journey. And ultimately, that became the layout of the book, because the first half is the things that we need to let go of as moms, as parents.

And then the second half are the things that we need to hold on to and all that God has for us in this next season of life. So let me ask you this now. With those children, five children and a different age range, have any of them flown out of the nest and then flown back for a while? Yes, they have.

We call those bungee cord kiddos. That's pretty common in today's world. It is. I did some research on that, and I can't remember the exact numbers, but I want to say that in the 1980s, it was like 21% of kids came back to the home. And now it's like 51%. So it's a big change over the last 40 years or so.

And so I really think that we need to understand that. And we've had our kids come back for a variety of reasons. Of course, those that were in college sometimes came back for the summers or, you know, until they either got married or went off on their own. But we had two of our married children come back and live under our roof for a short season of time.

We certainly weren't anticipating that. Our one daughter and her husband and two children, he got a new job in our community and they were moving. They weren't able to sell their house and then turn around and rebuy as quickly as they wanted to.

They needed to save a few months. And so they lived with us. And, you know, so we talk about that in Empty Nest Full Life. How do you come up with some agreements that work for your family? What will the rent situation be? And I'm a firm believer that every child that moves back home needs to be paying rent.

Now, it doesn't have to be market value, but when you live somewhere, it costs something. So I don't think we do our kids any favors when we don't require of them to contribute to that. So definitely those bungee cord kids are a thing. And I think one of the things we have to do is know how to handle that in a way that will set us up for success. Well, Jill, the title of the book is Empty Nest Full Life. Let's talk a little bit about the full life part.

What are you trying to say there? Well, I think a lot of times parents, and I will say particularly mothers, we really feel like life is over when we're done parenting. Just out of, you know, you've been doing this thing for so long. Like I said, I was doing it for 30 years. That's a long time. You have habits of the way that you relate to your children, and you have to change those habits.

So that was definitely very difficult. But I think that what I really want moms to understand is that there is so much possibility in this new season of life. You're not over. The show is not done. But you have completed one part of the show. The curtain has come down.

Now the curtain's coming back up, and you have an encore. How are you going to use that encore? And so I really try to cast a vision for moms and dads to recognize that this season of life is a mission field. How are you going to use that mission field? Who are you going to minister to? What are you going to focus your efforts and your energies on?

Because there is so much possibility in front of you. I like that. And I hope that our listeners are hearing that because, let's face it, for many of them, they've got another half of life to live when the kids are gone.

So let's make the most of that. Now earlier in our first session, you were talking about letting go and holding on. Let's talk a little bit about that letting go part. As an empty nester, what's been the most difficult part of the process of letting go? Well, I think, you know, there's different things of letting go. For instance, I think we need to let go of expectations. I think as parents, our tendency is to have the expectation that our kids are going to want to connect with us as much as we want to connect with them.

And sometimes that isn't the way it is. For instance, our kids of the five, I probably talk to my girls. We have two daughters, three sons. I probably talk to my girls almost once a day, maybe once every other day. My boys, I talk to one of them once a week, one of them once every two weeks. And if I hear from the third one once a month, it's a good month.

Now all of those are normal. But see, we have to let go of expectations that it looks a certain way. You know, we can look at that and say, my child's rejecting me, they don't want to talk to me.

Or we can say, my child is flying on their own and this is the pattern of communication that works for them. So letting go of those expectations. We have to let go of traditions. You know, when the holidays roll around, all of a sudden, especially if your kids are married and they now have another extended family to consider, those expectations of the holidays may need to change. But they've always come to our house at Christmas. Exactly.

And we got to get rid of the always statements because, man, those are going to rock the relationships in a wrong direction. It was about four years ago. We did not spend Thanksgiving with a one of our five children. We had a couple of them that were, this was their time to go to the in-laws. They alternated and we had one that was way far from home. He wasn't going to be able to come home. We had another one that we knew they were going to go to the extended family on the other side in town, but they could make it to ours if we wanted to.

And then we had the last one. He was going to spend time with his girlfriend at her house, but also come to ours. And Mark and I talked about it and we said, you know what, let's give all of the kids the gift of holiday freedom. And so we literally, we said, you know what, no Thanksgiving at our house this year, but on Saturday night, we're having a pizza party. And if anybody wants to come over and celebrate the savage Thanksgiving with our pizza party, then we'll do that.

And so what a gift that was. They could fully enjoy being at the other sides of the family. See, those are the kind of things we've got to learn how to be more flexible with and to begin to let go of. And not make the kids feel guilty because they don't come to our place.

That's powerful. So now the parents, you've talked with other parents who are experiencing the empty nest. What are some of the difficulties that other moms talk about? And we say moms, but dads can experience similar feelings.

Well, they can. I think another one that we have to let go of, and a lot of moms struggle with this. I think it's a control issue for us, but we have to let go of our opinions because we have been accustomed to leveraging our opinions in our children's lives for 20 years. And now they need to be making their own decisions. They need to be leveraging their own thoughts and opinions. And unless they ask us, I like to say we now belong to the Keep It Shut Club. And one of the principles I encourage moms with in Empty Nestful Life is pray, don't say.

That really has helped me personally. We're used to weighing in on their decisions. We're used to stepping in and helping to rescue them. And they need to stand on their own two feet now, and it is really difficult.

And so that's a place that I hear a lot of moms say, man, this is so hard to not say anything. To stand back and go, ooh, ooh, that's going to hurt really bad, or ooh, bad consequence is going to happen here. But really, they've got to stand on their own two feet. And as my friend Brenda Yoder says, don't steal the struggle from them. Don't steal that struggle. Well, that's hard for a parent, isn't it? Because you think, I know if they'd listen to me, it's going to save them.

It will. It'll save them pain. It'll save them hardship.

But you know what? We had to learn it the hard way sometimes ourselves, and we got to let our kids learn it the hard way too. Isn't that something that you do? You've talked about this before, about allowing your children to fail or fall. This starts when they're toddlers, not when they're getting married, right?

Yeah, exactly. We have to. We talked about it in my No More Perfect Kids book, that we really have to allow our kids. I mean, yes, expect responsibility.

Yes, expect obedience. But also expect them to fail at both of those, as well as other things. The brain optimally grows in failure.

I mean, they have literally done brain research, and it grows best in failure. So we don't want to take that growth opportunity away from our kids. And the earlier we can actually begin to do that, the easier it is in those empty nest years where we really do have to completely let go. Yeah. You also talk about letting go of your child's problems. Now, that's easy to say, but that's not so easy to do, right?

No, it's not. You know, especially when our kids, maybe they have an issue and it feels like, oh, we can help out with that. And guess what? There are times that, yes, they do need our help. But there have been some times, and my husband and I have sorted through this, where we realized that our help really wasn't helping. It was actually enabling. And so, you know, a lot of times parents will say, well, how do I know if I'm enabling?

And I'll say, look back at what you've done over the last six months. Have they made progress? And a lot of times that's enough for parents to go, oh, nope, they haven't.

They're still playing video games on the couch and they haven't gotten a job. Okay. Well, then you're really not helping.

You're actually enabling. And it's been hard. You know, we have one child that has had some run-ins even with the law. He has made very poor choices. It has been difficult.

He has a lot of mental health issues. It just has broken our hearts. But we've really learned that we actually had to kind of unentangle ourselves from him. We have to resist the urge to bail him out, whether that's literally bailing him out or trying to assist, because most of the time it really wasn't. And so you actually have to detach. But here's what we've learned. You lovingly detach from their problems, but you don't detach from them as a person.

And see, I think that's what the difference is. So, you know, our son, when he has had some issues and he has called us to whatever, bail him out of jail or whatever, the answer is, I'm sorry, we can't do that. We love you dearly, but you're going to have to walk these out. But we're here and we'll walk the journey with you. Hard to do, but so important.

It is hard to let them suffer the consequences of what they do and yet stand with them as they go through those consequences. You know something, Gary? I think something just happened. There was somebody who listened and they're driving down the road and they almost drove off the road because somebody on Christian radio said they have a child that has a problem with the law or whatever. And that is like, I'm not alone.

I got the sheriff pulled up in front of the house yesterday or that kind of thing. And it's so refreshing to hear somebody say, yeah, I got kids who are struggling and who've made some bad choices. You're not a bad parent for going through that. You're part of a club that you don't want to be in right now, but it's okay.

Jill, just one more word to that person who drove off the road. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think we have to be so honest about this because, you know, you can raise your, I mean, we raised all five of our kids in a strong Christian home. But when they step out on their own, they make their own choices.

And here's what I think is so important. That does not define you. That does not define you. Your God defines you.

He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Your child's appearance, your child's choices, your child's successes, or your child's failures do not define you as a parent. And you have to resist the whisper of the enemy that tries to get in there and say, you know, cause you to feel guilty and cause you to own something that really isn't yours to own. It's your child's to own.

Yeah, yeah. You know, often, Jill, in my office, the parent will say, what did we do wrong? Where did we fail that our son or our daughter would do this? And, you know, and I say, look, God's first two children went wrong.

They had a perfect father, you know? Yes. No, our children are free. They can make decisions, and often they make poor decisions. But I certainly fully agree with you. We have to let them suffer the consequences of their decisions. If they're going to learn it all, they're going to learn through their experiences. Yes, yes. And it's hard.

It is really hard to watch that. And I think, you know, there is nothing wrong with going back and going, you know, is there something we could learn from it? Is there something we would do different? Certainly every parent feels some sort of guilt of regret. I think we all do, to some degree, because hindsight is 20-20.

You know, we can see better looking back. But at that moment, we have to turn the guilt into grace and to recognize I did the best with the knowledge and the experience I had at that point in my life. That's really what we have to do when that guilt wants to creep in and we want to feel bad. Because, you know, most of the time, though, it's not about what we didn't do.

It's about the choices they're personally making. And if we do discover that we failed them at a particular point, either by our model or by our teaching, we should apologize, right? Yep, we sure should. We should own it and let them know, you know what, now when I look back and you were 15 and whatever was going on and I'm realizing I could have maybe led you better through that or I could have listened better. Nothing wrong with that. I mean, honestly, there are probably some 40 and 50 year olds listening today that if their parents came along now and their parents are in their 70s and 80s and apologize for something, it would heal a place in their heart. So yes, it's never too late to own your stuff and to recognize those places that we can clean up with each other.

Yeah, absolutely. Jill, who was the emptiness harder on? You or Mark? I think both of us in different ways. Definitely, I think we both miss the energy in the house. We miss the laughter. For me, I miss several of our kids were musical and I'm musical and I really miss them, you know, going in the front room and playing the piano. I think we both have missed the energy of that. I think he has felt a sense of relief of, ah, we don't have to parent anymore. I love that. And yes, I've experienced that relief as well, but I do miss it.

I really do. And I find myself leveraging that nurturing on particularly our grandchildren now that we have grandchildren. And so I'm still that teacher in me that loved that part of parenting, you know, really does miss that but is starting to find it in other areas of life. Jill, in the former session, we talked about detaching from our children but also loving them at the same time.

How do those two things work together? Well, I'll tell you why. Probably one of the biggest lessons that God has taught me in this season of time is learning to love my kids while I disagree with them. That's hard. If I'm really honest with you, some of my love as a parent has been a little bit more conditional than unconditional. And that's been a growth place for me over the last few years. And recognizing, I think a lot of times as parents, the way that we love, A, is going to look different than it did when they're at home. Because when they're at home, maybe we expressed our love by putting three meals on the table, making sure they had a clean house to come home to, or, you know, maybe it was expressed in physical ways.

You were always hugging and encouraging them. But when you're living a distance from them, that has to change, number one, and you have to begin to find different ways to do that. So maybe like with one of our sons, I've just moved to a lot more verbal encouragement because I don't see him that often. We have one son that lives in Australia.

So we don't get to connect with him physically very often at all. So we try to, you know, I try to express that love in a lot of different ways that I could have that's very different than what I did when he was at home. But, you know, also you have to learn how to express that love even when you disagree with your kids. And that's that place that I think that many parents struggle because they're like, if I accept and I love my kids, they're going to think I'm agreeing with them, that they're living with their boyfriend, or they're going to think I'm agreeing with them as they, you know, make other poor choices. You know, we recently had a conversation with one of our kids and he said to us, you guys don't agree with me, but you love me.

You have no idea how many of my friends don't have that, who are walking out this particular situation. And so that was huge. And it really was encouraging to me to go, okay, I finally feel like I'm starting to understand unconditional love because conditional love is I'll love you if you live life the way I want you to. And I'll love you if you live life the way God wants you to. But unconditional love is I'll love you no matter what choices you make. You are mine.

That's not easy, but it really is a journey we have to go on as empty nest parents. And that is the way God loves us, right? Oh my goodness. He sure does. He doesn't say I'll love you if you.

No. He loves us right where we are. Now he doesn't want to leave us there. And sometimes we don't want to leave our kids there.

Now we have to really leverage our voice carefully, oftentimes waiting for them to ask. But at the same time, no, we have to take our cues from how God loves us unconditionally. You just mentioned a little bit ago not enabling your children. And when someone calls to bail me out of this, love to many people in this culture is doing exactly what I want you to do when I want you to do it. And God doesn't love us that way, unfortunately for us. So the definition of love, you're tweaking that for the culture, I think, right?

Yes, exactly. What we really have to understand is that sometimes the most loving thing we can do is put a boundary up. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do, like with our child that has had some legal issues, the most loving thing we can do is let him walk out the consequences.

Because that actually is going to be much better for him in the long run. And so I think a lot of times that we misunderstand what love looks like. And I think that's true with God as well, because God loves us unconditionally, but he lets us suffer the consequences when we make poor decisions. He sure does. But he doesn't leave us.

Absolutely. Now, you say that the empty nest season of life has a way of bringing idols to the surface. What do you mean by that?

Well, it really does. That's one of the things I talk about needing to let go of. Oftentimes, one of the idols that I think particularly moms deal with is that idol of identity. Thinking that, you know, my child's appearance, my child's choices, my child's success or not success is what's defining me. And when we start feeling that way, when we make their decisions and their behavior about us, then what we actually have is we have an idol of identity and we have used our kids' successes or failures to identify ourselves. So we've got to be aware of that and we've got to move that off the throne and put God back on the throne. He's the one that defines us. And it's not by anything we do or don't do or our kids do or don't do.

It's based upon his grace, it's based upon our acceptance of the gospel, but it is not based upon behaviors around us. So that's one idol. I think moms struggle with the idol of worry.

I think we think if it was an Olympic sport, we would be gold medalists. And many of us don't even recognize that that's an idol, but worry is actually the worship of our circumstances. Or you could say worry is the worship of our kids' circumstances. And we need to move our eyes off of the mountain and onto the mountain mover, the one who can do something about the circumstances. So we need to turn that fear into faith. We need to turn the worry and the struggle into prayer. It's not easy and it's a battle that we fight all the time.

But boy, that control piece wants to come in. And that's a place that I think even the idol of control, letting go of that, feeling like if they'll just do things my way, it'll work out better. And we got to learn to let go.

Those are places that we probably need some spiritual growth personally. You know, I think when God gives us freedom, sometimes we don't get the picture as parents that God allows us to make poor decisions, even though he loves us extremely well. And we have to allow our children to make wrong decisions, even though we love them. Because as you said earlier, if they're going to learn, they're going to learn through the mistakes they make and they're going to realize, oh, that's not the best thing for me to be doing. Yeah, very true. Can you address some of the challenges that Christian parents in the sandwich generation face?

You know, they have young children who are at home or just about to leave home, and they also have older parents who need their assistance. Yeah. You know, one of the things I do, I talk about in the second half of Empty Nest Full Life, you know, we've talked about in the first half, let go, and then we're talking about hold on, hold on. In fact, I base it on Isaiah 43, 19, and I love how it reads in the message version, be alert, be present. I'm about to do something brand new. It's bursting out.

Don't you see it? I love the excitement of that. And God's saying, man, I got something new for you, this encore. And so I really try to cast a vision that it is time for you to find your mission field. What is your mission field in your Empty Nest encore season of life? And one of the mission fields that some of us will be on is the mission field of aging parents. And I think a lot of times we don't see it that way. We don't call it a mission field. We call it obligation. We feel like we have to do it, but we feel like it steals from our time.

But what a difference if we make that small tweak in our thinking and we consider it a mission field, what a gift that is. And I'll tell you, I've been walking this one out. My father had been ill for about the last 18 months, and they live two and a half hours from us. And I've been making trips over about every other week for the last 18 months, sometimes staying as long as a week at a time.

And about six weeks ago, he passed away. And I am so grateful that I had the margin of the Empty Nest season of life to be able to be there and help care for him. I'm glad I have the margin now in the Empty Nest season of life to help my mom adjust to a new normal. And so seeing that as a mission field, I think, changes the way the heart thinks about it. And many of us need to do that.

Yeah. You know, when you were talking about your father and your visiting him, I reflected on the time I spent with my mother. My mother lived to be 99. And the last eight or nine years, I had sitters with her around the clock. But I went down every week and took her when she was able, took her out to lunch and so forth. But I made sure that my two adult children knew what I was doing. Okay? Because someday I might be in mama's place.

Yes. Very true. Because I think, you know, it's a biblical thing that we care for our aging parents. It's just the way God planned it. But you're right. In the Empty Nest years, it's easier because now at least you're not having to care for your children on a regular basis. Right.

And you know what? I love what you just shared there because really we are still role models, even for our adult kids. We are still role models for our grandchildren, for those around us. We have to recognize that we have influence simply by the way that we're living our life. So your years of influence are not over.

They've just begun. I really think we undermine and we minimize the ministry that can happen in the Empty Nest years. The sweetest thing about that story, Gary, about you and your mom, because you told me about that and she was dealing with dementia. She remembered you when she would say, my son to you. But every time you'd take her to that restaurant, she'd get the same thing.

Footlong hot dog all the way. It was a barbecue house, but that was her meal every time we went down. Oh my goodness. That is such a great story. It shows part of your heart. Jill Savage's book is our featured resource, Empty Nest, full life, discovering God's best for your next.

You can find out more about it at FiveLoveLanguages.com. More hopeful words are coming up here on Moody Radio. Jill, in the Empty Nest stage, often it reveals weaknesses or struggles in the marriage that maybe weren't apparent when the kids were in the house. How do you deal with these problems that surface that you really didn't quite expect? Yeah. I mean, it really is a common issue. And I think our kids have been a bit of a buffer for us.

They've been a bit of a distraction. We've done a lot of standing side by side and kind of helping move this child forward. But now there's nothing that we're moving forward and we kind of pivot and look at each other and go, who are you?

I'm not even sure. And I think, unfortunately, we have a lot of couples. Mark and I have a thriving marriage ministry.

We are marriage coaches and we do marriage retreats. And so we spend a lot of time with married couples. But we are personally seeing this increase in what we call silver divorces.

And these are people that are married 25 and 30 in 35 years. And the kids are now launched and then they're going their separate ways. And I think that what we need to help couples understand is if you feel miles apart when your kids launch, that is a normal thing to happen, especially if you haven't intentionally invested in your marriage. But it doesn't mean you have to go separate ways.

You can close the gaps. You can use this new season where you have a little bit more white space and you have a little bit more time and energy, maybe even a little bit more finances to maybe get the marriage counseling you should have gotten 10 years ago, to maybe invest in a marriage coach that can help you in the right direction. Maybe you can take in marriage retreats and events that help you to learn about each other.

Maybe it's time to actually start dating again and getting to know each other once again. You think you know your spouse, but do you really know what's going on inside their head and their heart? And so we have shared our marriage journey very openly, and we had a horrible crisis about eight, nine years ago, including infidelity.

We were miles apart, and God closed that gap with both of us being willing to do the hard work to do that. So that's my encouragement, is that certainly the empty nest can reveal marriage struggles, but those marriage struggles can be moved forward. And Mark and I now, we talk about the before the empty nest season. That was Mark and Jill 1.0. And now after our crisis and in the empty nest season of life, we're Mark and Jill 2.0, and we like 2.0 a lot better than 1.0.

Yeah. And if I could add, Jill, also, the way we treat each other is also having a tremendous influence on our adult children. I remember the time our son came home from college and he said, he put one hand on my shoulder and one on his mother's shoulder and looked us in the eyes and he said, I want to thank you guys for staying together. Because we'd shared with him our struggles in the early years, and he said, I have five friends at college that did not go home this Christmas because their parents have separated since they left for college.

And he said, they don't know which one to go to, so they're not going home. Yes. Oh, it just breaks my heart. I know. Sometimes we think, well, you know, the kids are gone now, we're just divorced, you know, and it's not going to hurt them.

It always hurts everybody. Yes. And I'm not trying to make people feel badly who've been divorced and remarried.

I'm just saying there's always struggles when that happens, and it's worth the effort to do what you just described for us and to work on the relationship. Oh, wow. Okay. We can both preach about that.

Yes, we can. Well, we've talked a lot about the struggles of the empty nest, but what about the positives, like new friendships or new opportunities? Is that part of the empty nest season also?

Exactly. And the new mission fields, you know, that's really what the second half of Empty Nest Full Life is about, is really casting a vision. One of the things I encourage moms to do is take an audit of your life, take an evaluation. What experiences have you had?

Where have you had pain? And now, how could God use that pain for His purposes in a way to encourage others? I mean, you don't have to do it on national radio like we do. I mean, you can do it sitting across the table with a cup of coffee with someone and, you know, leveraging that experience in a way that helps someone know they're not alone. So, yes, there's the new possibilities of ways that we can influence the world around us.

Maybe there's completely different possibilities. I'll tell you something that's been new in the empty nest season for us is we started hosting Airbnb in our home, and we had empty bedrooms. And Mark and I love hospitality, and we're like, why don't we leverage this? It brought in a little bit of extra income, and here's what we found.

It brings the mission field to our living room, and we thoroughly enjoy it. And so that's something we've decided to do together in the empty nest season of life. Others pick up new hobbies. They find new friendships, maybe other empty nest couples. So just really taking a look, what was it that you put on the back burner when you started raising your kids?

Because they're just one time anymore. So those are the things you want to bring back to the front burner. What have you had maybe interest in in recent years, but you just hadn't had time to pursue it?

Bring that back in. So personally, there are so many opportunities, and if you're married, as a couple, there are so many possibilities of things that you can be involved in in that empty nest season of life. And make the most of it. Jill, before we leave, one other group I want to talk about is what about the young adult who is trying to fly? They are trying to be independent and move away, but the parent is not navigating this very well, and they feel that the parent's holding on. How does that young adult respond to the parent?

I know. I think the first thing is probably some compassion, because really having some compassion for that parent to recognize, hey, they've been doing this for 20-some years, and it's not easy to stop doing something after you've been doing it for 20 years. And so I would say the first thing that I would encourage that young adult is to have a little bit of compassion. Maybe even if you choose to have conversation, include the compassion in the conversation. You know, Mom, I know it's hard for you to let me go.

I know it's hard to even think of me being out on my own. I want you to know I know that, but I also want you to know I'm going to be okay, and I believe you're going to be okay. Inserting that and having some grace and compassion in any of those conversations that needs to happen, and sometimes they may just have to stand firm in some of their boundaries. You know, they may have to say to the parent, you know, maybe they're newly married and they now have, you know, both sides of the family they have to do Christmas with and Thanksgiving with, and they may have to say, I want you to know that together my spouse and I have decided that we're going to alternate holidays. And, you know, the parent may not take that well, but their job is to leave and cleave, and so they may need to stand firm in some of the boundaries they set, but they can do that with grace and compassion.

Yep. Loving conversation. Well, Jill, this has been a wonderful conversation, and this book is going to meet a real need in the lives of parents who are going through the empty nest. Primarily, it's addressed to them, but I think the young person who is leaving the nest would profit from reading this as well.

They may be more empathetic with their parents if they read this. So, thanks for being with us today, and keep up the good work. Thank you for having me. What a refreshing take on the empty nest today with Jill Savage. If you want to find out more about her latest, go to FiveLoveLanguages.com.

Empty nest, full life, discovering God's best for your next. Again, go to FiveLoveLanguages.com. You can hear the broadcast again or suggest it to someone else.

Again, FiveLoveLanguages.com. And next week, the unlikely people caught up in the story of the birth of Jesus. Dan Darling will talk about the characters of Christmas in one week. Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Todd, and thank you for listening. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.