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Strength for the Cancer Journey - Deborah Barr

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman
The Truth Network Radio
January 9, 2021 1:00 am

Strength for the Cancer Journey - Deborah Barr

Building Relationships / Dr. Gary Chapman

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January 9, 2021 1:00 am

If you’ve been given the diagnosis of cancer, or if someone you care about has, don’t miss this edition of Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Author and speaker Deborah Barr says cancer is a hard, reluctant journey through rugged, unfamiliar terrain. But you can find the strength you need if you’ll allow God to join you on this trail. Whether a patient or a caregiver, you’ll be encouraged.

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If a doctor has given you or someone you love. A diagnosis of cancer. Don't miss today's Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman and I can face this in my own strength or even though I may be mad at God, but in my case it would matter you are there is the potential that I can't. This could be a turning point welcome building relationship with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times best color. "The 5 Love Languages" today. The club nobody wants to be part of the group of people hear the word you have cancer you navigate all the medical complexity motion spiritual struggle. That's ahead author and speaker Debbie Varma joined as a resource for both patients and caregivers help anyone facing devastating cancer that you go to five love use your featured resource strength for the cancer journey 30 days of inspiration incurred and comfort five love

This topic is a personal one for you is criticism whatever losers know my wife Carolyn had cancer years ago went through surgery and then the chemotherapy of the loss of hair loss of weight loss of energy it is. It's a long journey and it can be a hard journey, but she's doing wonderful and I were very grateful for that. And that's the good news that in today's world, many people do survive cancer and come out on the other side, additional years to live, so but I am excited about this book that Debbie's written I wish Carolyn had a book like this of devotions you when we were going through that journey. I think anyone who either has cancer or as a caregiver for cancer patient. I would find a book like this to be extremely helpful and encouraging father taken the journey. I remember you saying that Carolyn that you set down as I want to cancel all my go around the country and speaking in all that and Carolyn look do you write me know your right, exactly. She said you not going to cancel anything God put that on your schedule, cancel it. She said that you will be here when I need you and faith you happen to be away and I need something. My friends will be here in five minutes you and she's right about that.

It's very close friends or walk with her through the journey. Of course I was here at crucial moments during that time and is not that I'm gone long periods of time. You know most of my traveling just out one day and speak and come back the next day. But yeah, she was adamant about that and I said okay Carolyn, if that's what you want, that's what we'll do. But yeah, she looks back on that year, says, in a sense it was my lost year of my life, but in another sense he said been much more sensitive to life and appreciating life.

You know, because when you go to to the door.

The front door of Beth and come back you are grateful to be alive so you know it's interesting how God uses even the very, very difficult things in our lives to enrich us as individuals and to encourage others whom we encounter on the journey and if you're walking with someone like that. Maybe a spouse over a loved one family member or friend if you're walking with them or if you yourself are walking this trail I want you to hear from Debbie bar Deborah bar BA RR. She's an author, speaker, health, education, or she's authored speaker health educator with a passion for encouraging people to engage deeply with God as they journey through some tough times previous devotional book grace for the unexpected journey was written for dementia caregivers and it was named best inspirational book at the 2018 digital book world awards strength for the cancer journey is her sixth book and you can find out more at Debbie welcome back to Building Relationships. Thank you again Chris mentioned that you've written a number of books and the last was the one he mentioned it was for caregivers of dementia patients and background. Of course, a book that you and I undock.

Show medical doctor wrote his wife had timers and not we all wrote that book together, keeping love alive as memories fade, "The 5 Love Languages" in the Alzheimer's journey and then you you wrote this devotional book for caregivers of dementia patients and really excited to see that you have now written the book for both patients.

Those who have cancer and for caregivers helping them spiritually, emotionally walk through this journey.

So really, I'm really glad that you have done this, are there parallels between someone who has a diagnosis of dementia and somebody gets a cancer diagnosis I think is either Nancy or cancer is something hereinafter prepared for. It's always a shock actually went to China to kick in book came from its grace for the unexpected journey because it always unexpected journey now that it expects to be messed with dementia or cancer or for your close family member is you never saw that coming, and never ever dies, so I guess the parallel if there is one thing I think it's shock and surprise.

I can certainly say that I think our listeners can defy with that. Anyone who's ever had either one of those diseases will know we didn't sit around anticipating this is going to happen to me this happens and then you have to respond to that. What inspired you to tackle the topic of cancer. Well, my mother had cancer. My father also had cancer cell on my radar until about two years account when someone close to this point my life I cancer test opened my eyes to how many, many people in this country and all around us going to the cancer journey and now I think we've mentioned this passion for encouraging people to engage deeply with God when they're going to hike time so because I saw this up close and personal for a period of about 10 years just triggered an immediate desire to do something for people with cancer that was kind along the same lines devotional for dementia caregivers because they're both really really hard journey potentially.

Isolating and sell having something at your fingertips that will bring you back to your focus back to the Lord minutes is pretty helpful.

I certainly agree with that. This book is not a memoir of one person's experiences, but your drawing from what you call a panel of experts that is people who have been down the cancer journey tell us about the reason you made the choice to draw on many people stories well because I personally have never had cancer spires that I know a whole lot of people do make sense to me to reach out to let them speak to it.

From personal experience because I can only speak to in a secondhand from afar. So I said eight people have various kinds of cancer and I just really like to talk from the heart speak from the trenches and to hire you have prostate cancer, which is the most common kind of cancer in America to people have breast cancer which is the most common kind among women and any other for half more rare kinds of cancer. One person has ocular melanoma in your eye. One young lady, the youngest person has Hodgkin's lymphoma. Somebody else has multiple myeloma in the last person bladder cancer cell date convert this wide spectrum of types of cancer can all walking through this journey. Each journey is unique there all trying to navigate those very real ups and downs of walking with God to intentionally data health crisis and sell collectively. I think they did a fantastic job because everyone is truly walking with God way that I think will encourage readers to do the same and that got really was me, and he spoke to it from their personal experience and I couldn't what I did was cobble together with a total with Scripture think, Debbie, what are some ways that people typically respond to the initial diagnosis of cancer talk about both the patient and the caregiver. I think probably typically the response is one of the stages of what we wait, commonly called the great cycle that would be some people respond in denial. It's like oh no no this is not happening. Or it might be anger, but might be bargaining with God, if you just take this away you know how to explain or see some people probably punch right into depression. Depending on what they've heard. I don't think most people would initially respond with acceptance but that's part of the great cycle and you know what a familiar now with the great cycle, but what most people don't know and I now until I started to look into this a little bit is that when Elizabeth Kubler Ross developed what we now call the great cycle of the stages she did develop it to help people cope with the passing of a loved one what she originally intended was to explain the stages that people go through this patient's when they are confronted with a serious diagnosis like cancer and so as they come to terms with their cancer.

It's probably going to be pretty reflective of the great cycle which can. I know you know is not a nice, orderly process.

It's very messy. You can start at any point cycle back through think you're fine and then you don't hate you all again and I think dealing with cancer is a lot like that and so people start out with different kinds of experiences and feelings but at the end of the day. I think everybody cancer probably has a pretty common experience when you put together I think of him reflecting now Carolyn my wife. It's almost like she jumped right to acceptance of the doctor gave the diagnosis on the phone and that and she said to the doctor okay then, let's do surgery tomorrow and he said okay tomorrow but I can do it next week.

You know, that sounds like Carol and she told me the next morning to tell me that that afternoon because she said I didn't want to lose sleep.

That's Carolyn to and she told me the next morning and she said this is this is the way it is and so were going to the surgery will get the type that first step and then we'll see whether it requires like chemotherapy or radiation or whatever you know so was almost like she jumped right through that but I'm sure over that period of the year you know there was ups and downs in terms of emotionally because it's hard anyway you look at it it's hard when you're going through that so you think it's good you're what I hear you saying is, people do have different types of emotions and these are five common ways that people tend to respond to the diagnosis yet. I was sitting with my friend when the call came and he was actually told over the phone, which I'm not so sure with the greatest weight of communicate this to is told of the phone that they put his chances at 30% was before any treatment recommendations so fast forward through the last two years. He test was told that he can now consider himself a survivor completely gone so what you hear first doesn't mean that God isn't going to be at work through this care providers and through the various therapies and certainly through prayer. It's different for everybody. That was his experience and his initial response was absolute shock, he was unable to speak. That was that was very different from your spouse. So I think it depends on a lot of things you know where you are in your walk with God. For one thing in your personality and your past experience was almost sure if a person is going to the doctor to receive the diagnosis.

Is it helpful for them to take somebody with them your spouse or close friend with them to sit in on that session. I would say yes for the simple reason that many people respond the way my friend Ted went once they hear the word cancer now hear anything else and then I know that's true with the dementia situation to once that word is spoken, your mind just takes off in your processing. Processing processing and you don't really hear much of what said after that. So if you have someone else with you, they can listen intently to what's being communicated.

Maybe take some notes and then go back through that with the patient later said that they get the whole picture of what the doctor really did say I can really say that when Carolyn was in the hospital getting ready for the surgery. Our daughter came up and spent two or three days and she was there for everything everything the doctor said she was.

Then she was interpreting it to her mother and tentatively go to her daughter's medical doctor and that helped. She hosted some of the terms and read and understand you say that for many people, captures a spiritual turning point. What you mean by that idea really came from somebody I interviewed actually list the guy with the ocular melanoma. He said this is quote he said this place that he said I don't think anyone is going to get cancer and remain the same somebody theater going to really turn from God or run to God. It's one of those two things and so it is potentially a turning point. Whether you're a Christ follower or whether you are an unbeliever, and the reason I say that is for the Christ follower. That's a decision point where they're going to pretty much have to decide am I gonna face this in my own strength or even though I may be mad at God, what am I gonna face it with the help of God and that may be the very point at which a person of nominal faith becomes a person of wholehearted faith for the unbeliever. It's kind of the same thing. They may suddenly be aware that for the first time in their life situation that they can handle in their own strength. This is bigger than them, and suddenly there's the realization that they need God they need salvation.

They need God's help on a daily basis to make it through cell matter who you are, there is the potential that I cancer diagnosis could be a turning point in your faith can say that I can see people coming to Christ when you're at the end of the road where you going to run toward God so they'll know a Christian who is walking with God gets a cancer diagnosis. The journey is different for them right because they got this close connection to God, yeah, absolutely. The Christian has a resource that unbelievers don't have and that is that continuous presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives and the ability of God to speak comfort to you through the Scriptures say yes, but you mention some of emotions that people might feel closer walking through the cancer journey and one of an image was anger. Let's talk a little bit about anger is that a common response to a cancer diagnosis and in the journey and how do you respond to your in healthy ways is a common response and in fact one of the devotional based that RA is devoted to anger and one of the people I interviewed tells his story of tapping his his response to anger. It's it's a normal response because it's one of those phases of the great cycle and Christians tend to have a little bit of trouble with anger thinking. I it's not okay for me to feel this anger but it's okay because it's part of the great cycle. God is the author of the great cycle. He's the author of all human emotions. In Scripture we see where even God experiences anger into God gave us the capacity to feel that and it's just a feeling.

Anger is just a feeling it's neither right nor wrong in and of itself. It's what you do with your anger that can be right or wrong, but for most people it's it's part of coping. Maybe not initially but at some point it would be normal to feel some anger that could be anger at the healthcare system.

Anger at God for allowing cancer in your life or angry that your friends and family are perfectly healthy and your not feeling well at all. So the important thing is feel what you feel. Be honest with God. You can't full him. He knows what you feel. Anyway and just make sure that you dispel the energy of anger in a way that doesn't harm other people. That's the key thing so the Scripture you alluded to earlier, when you are angry soon anger about Sen. anger.

So how do you process anger than in a positive manner like think you hit on it. When you set personality earlier, I think different people.

I gonna process it differently.

Some people like writers might get on their laptop and just pound out all their feelings. Yolanda the computer screen or even a piece of paper. Other people to tend to be more immediate, dramatic might need to go hammer some nails were no really beat a tennis ball against a wall or people who are highly verbal night might need to get into the car and just roll up the windows and test yell. I mean it just really depends on how your wired but the common important thing is make sure you don't hurt other people with your anger SQ W you mentioned early on that your parents were both diagnosed at some point I will hold you were but did you experience that tell you the anger thing the questions or did it go a little more subterranean with you as your parents struggled with. I think it for me.

Personality wise, it was more just deep sadness. And if you knew my family dynamic kind of background that you would probably say that makes sense. He just to grief that my mom in particular had just gotten her life to a point where she could really be herself really enjoy life and out of the blue hair came misdiagnosis in her case, it was colon cancer and it was very, very, very late when it was discovered, so it was a sad time for me to think anyone whether a child or brother or spouse of someone who has a cancer diagnosis is going to be sadness because it's that's not something that any of us want to have. So think your response was certainly normal response. Let me ask you this. If you are a child adult child of someone who has cancer or if your spouse are really really close friend about your own emotions you load. Do you need to be careful about sharing your own maybe negative emotions with with the patient.

How do you feel about that. I think that's a really important thing to talk about because you want to be real right you you don't want to stifle what you really thinking and feeling. However, some of that might be better shared with someone other than the person with cancer because if you are very emotional, very and you know tearful or hysterical or angry or whatever it is that really isn't going to equip that person to stay positive and focused enough for their journey. I don't know. There's a balance you want to be real and you want to be genuine with someone that I think you do need to be discerning about what you share with the person you don't want to be overly negative because they need the encouragement to fight the battle in front of them because if you do caregiver feel angry about this God.

This is not fair.

You know this, my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister and I been following you for years and now you've allowed this to happen. It's okay, again to for your anger, and even to how those thoughts but does not go things you should share with the patient ride because now left to preach to you and say what God's in control so that we can we can process our anger and other emotions. What I hear you saying is with ourselves or with someone else.

But, but not pouring out, especially her negative emotions to the patient yeah yeah brings to mind something that I talk about in the devotional. This disconnect triggers a nice segue to that idea. That's the idea of being a protector versus a promoter in that person's life. I got this idea actually from I cancer an oncology dietitian here in Winston-Salem that I know and she she blogged about something related to diet, but as is so often the case. Something in the physical realm has a corresponding trace in spiritual realm and I really saw one here she wrote that when you have cancer you know what what you put into your body obviously matters. She said protector foods are the ones that keep your body. You know the nourishment to function at its best and fight the cancer promoter foods had the opposite effect.

They break down your body's ability to protect itself from disease and so I I do a parallel from thinking you know what you put into your mind is here gonna strengthen or weaken your ability to stay positive in a while you going through this. I think that the media and people are the two biggest things to consider. You know the music you listen to the movies you watch what you read on the Internet and the people that you interact with unit.

They can either be protectors that empower you and encourage you or they can be promoters that kind of fill your mind with negativity and fear, and so I feel that if you're the patient to take care of yourself.

You have to be very discerning about what you let in your ear gate I Kate and also not to be afraid to limit time with people who are a bit negative or instill fear because you do need those resources conserved enough to fight the battle as a caregiver or someone looks concerned.

What I would hear you saying is also we have to be careful whether what we're saying is promoting their health and their positive response or whether were like in order for them absolutely intentional about it. He just can't be totally transparent, off-the-cuff, in consideration the battle that person is already fighting WI a friend who had a tumor brain tumor and the first what's a high school with them using the medicine is a medical professional, so he had a lot of experience with this type of thing and when he was diagnosed he is first response to it to all of his friends was, I will kick this thing in the rear-ended another window to beat this, it's a fight it's a justice boost of Herculean Herculean battle that he was going through and I wanted to ask you is that a is a a good frame of mind. Everybody has a different personality. For him it was like Rocky get into the ring with cancer what you think about that. Well, I think it sure beats. I think possibly unkempt, curious, I ask you a question as as that journey unfolded. Did that perspective changed, especially because he got to the point where the tumor was inoperable and things went. You know what South from where he wanted them passed away I had. I have another friend who's exactly the opposite of it and who has said, I don't treat cancer as my enemy. I treat cancer as something that God has at least allowed in his sovereign plan. He's at least allowed it into my life and so I allow cancer to teach me whatever it is that The God wants to teach me through it. So it was more of an embracing rather than I'm going to be this or chase away. I like his perspective because he is were not in control and I think the best case scenario is to look at it as you have been given an opportunity to trust God differently than you ever had to trust him before God will bring good out of that were really dealing somewhat with the negative side is the fear and fear is a natural emotion as well. When you have cancer because we don't know what the outcome is going to be simply a Christian is better prepared to handle fear but but what would you say I would say yes because I can generalize upon this resource we have that the unbeliever doesn't which is God's ability to speak to us through the Scriptures, and here's how I type it together. Cancer is scary.

There are a lot of unknowns, but if we spend too much time thinking about them without realizing it. What were really starting to do is meditate on our fears and at that point, it can be really overwhelming. The fear can overwhelm your your balance and so cure for that is to do kind of a mental pair that you once you realize that's what you doing stop meditating on what's frightening you and start meditating on what's true and what is always true. The truest thing that we can even access is is whatever God's word tells us so.

My encouragement would be to choose some verses that speak to that that fear that thing you must afraid of, and then to begin to deliberately meditate on his verses and you know Gary actually used as as my pastor you've actually taught me how to do that and that's meditating, focusing in on every single individual word and kind of sucking the meaning from it and then you put it all back together and you think about that verse as a whole and you let your heart here that versus something God is speaking to you personally and thank you ingrained that verse into your mind, so that when you start to feel afraid that verse you can pull it out and you can refocus from fear to face you know by by using the word of God and that idea actually got into the book because of something a person I interviewed told me she said you know you're going to feel sick and you're not going to feel like reaching for your Bible and going to the concordance in looking things up so she could get that ahead of time and she put these verses all over her house. She put on by her nightstand in her purse in the kitchen so that no matter where she was when she started to feel afraid or worried or whatever it was, she could just reach out and have the verses that were most meaningful to her. So what I did was I created an appendix for this book of nothing that versus said that if the person is feeling sick and all they can really handle is just opening the book, they turned to the appendix unites all their nurses to meditate on all their looks great Carolyn.

My wife had to traverse his own refrigerator. There were there before she got the diagnosis she typically puts up a few verses and so she said when she got the diagnosis and with refrigerator and she read those words and she'd already put on their mother's overhead about intercity was just God talking to me is exactly what I needed to hear that juncture, and so the word of God is powerful in terms of ministering to us emotionally what were going through the cancer journey or any other great difficulty, for that matter. I remember another thing my wife said was that when she was at her lowest to physically and emotionally. She should Gary was so weak could even pray she said, but the verses that I memorized what I was younger just kept floating through my mind while I will slander you know and she said it was just like God reminding me that he was with me in the middle of all this so you think for the Christian scriptures are due superpowerful as were walking through the started to talk about another topic, Scriptures and everything dear flex for this is the will of God expressing gratitude in the midst of the cancer journey.

Didn't sound normal to mush. All you trip out of the cancer journey well again I thought about this because of the people that I interviewed his take on this and made me look up the word grateful in the dictionary grateful means appreciative of benefits received and sell the irony is that sometimes it takes something shocking like a cancer diagnosis to open our eyes to benefits that we arty have the Navy were not really grateful for and in his case. He said cancer hasn't changed how I view God, but it certainly has changed me.

He said it has made me grateful for the things that I've always taken for granted.

It made me start living now. How I wish I would always have lit, and his reference for that was with his wife and his two boys people that he loved, but had more or less taken for granted and when cancer suddenly threatened.

Perhaps a future with them. He saw them in a completely different light. And I think that for a thoughtful person that can be the impact of cancer gratitude for things that you you've already got a great appreciative of benefits received. You've Artie got this benefits and cc them differently and I think doing that actually has a trickle-down effect on how you faced the cancer so I'm not really. They seem unrelated at first but I think that actually related because it has a lot to do with how you will face the journey and are not necessary. Thanking God that you got cancer and put what you're looking for things that you can find God for some in the past 02 just taken for granted and the others in terms of what God is doing as you walk through the journey so the mandible to use the term brain fog, lack of focus, easy, thinking it's a common effective treatment of cancer.

How do you handle those struggles when you can hardly even organize your own faults. Yeah, brain fog, it it's real people have assured me that it is definitely real.

It's not imaginary.

It is a result of candy chemo or radiation. And actually I just learned it's also a residual impact for some people from cover 19 which has nothing to do with cancer but I thought that was pretty interesting. I think about Psalm 139 verse two says of God, you understand my thoughts from afar. When you have brain fog.

It's really nice to know that even though you are kind of groping around in the brain fog, God sees everything crystal clear. So when you can't find the right word. God knows exactly what you mean when you can't find your keys you can't find your phone, you know, God knows where they are taken help you find them in when you can't get organized when you step back and thinking of the God who ordered the universe is hearing your prayer and he's got infinite patience and help you get your ducks in a row so the encouragement that I plan to give on brain fog is number one.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Because this is not a flaw in you. This is not your fault.

This is part of the journey in the number two something I mentioned a little while ago is that brain fog is one of those opportunities to trust God differently than you've ever needed to trust and before he had his kind. Take a step back to just not stress and just just in that moment to spray because God sees right into the brain fog, he sees everything clearly so it's real, but I think it's some definitely an opportunity to lean on God differently which will have a great impact in the long run I think sometimes cancer changes the body in ways that might not be visible to other people are in ways that are sometimes temporary and I'm sometimes or permit what encouragement is there for the one who struggling with their body image and the loss of hair loss of weight. You know those kind of things yeah that that's a real part of it for so many people depending on the type of cancer and how they treated it's something that the experts call psychosocial meaning they not only affect that person psychologically affect that person socially.

Suddenly they might feel self-conscious or they might be grieving what's happened and feel like now they're different now. They're different from other people, which can change the way that they interact with other people so this is a process and you're not going to probably change the perspective of your body image overnight. It's going to be a process.

One thing that I think is helpful for the Christ follower again you look into Scripture.

I love the verse first Samuel 16 seven it says the Lord doesn't see things the way you see them. The Lord looks at the heart and so no matter what's changing. It's comforting and it's encouraging that the one who knows you best is only ever always looking at your heart and we grow through these difficulties and so the very thing that is causing us you know to maybe respond to people differently can also cause us to respond to God differently in a good way. Eventually that connection with God can inspire the confidence that person needs to go forward in their new normal. Call the chapter on asking for help with this title. The hardest part was it so hard for us to accept help from other people. Is there a better way to offer help. Rather than just saying world.

If you need me, call me this this again grew out of one of the interviews I did the youngest person I talked to said that for her and she bent to quite a lot in her assessment that the hardest part of all of this was just letting people do something for you, and I was rather taken back by that and she said it's because for her. She doesn't like to inconvenience people and this came up again with somebody else that I interviewed. He said I think he he pretty much nailed it. He said that in his case it's because of pride were so independent were so self-sufficient that even when we have cancer. We don't want to admit that we need help that he pointed out being humble is something God wants to create in us anyway as opposed to being prideful. God is looking for humble hearts and so as we kind of brainstormed through this. The realization kind surfaced that when a person is willing to set their pride in receiving help side and instead to humbly say yes, I'll accept your help. What happens is really a wonderful thing because now people can use their gifts. People who have resources to contribute maybe to pay a medical bill for help with insurance or something like that. Now that now they can release those resources and people who are wired by God gifted to serve can now serve in so when humility replaces pride and everybody gets blessed we normally don't think of it that way.

We only think of how we want to be so independent and how we don't when inconvenience people.

The people are asking to help. It's good to take a moment and put the pride down and you notice humbly receive some things. It was kind of a profound realization.

I think for me to think of it in those terms. Because we all deal with pride. You have to have cancer to view and that your prideful and unity or other question about his better way to offer help. I would say yes because typically what we do is we say something like hey just enough just call me if you need anything and we can put the ball in the court of the person with the disease, but a better approach that's really hard to turn down the to be very specific and say something like, I'd like to pay a bill for you this month.

Will you let me do that or to say I'd like to lineup some people to drive you to the radiation treatments.

Would you please give me your appointment schedule. That's a lot easier to say yes to than just a generic blanket. Hey, call me if you need me. Because of this things that this two people mentioned they don't want to inconvenience you.

And it's it's hard. It's just hard to ask for help.

So that makes it easy for them to accept it like a like a fish because as you say, both things you said one is that if you allow people to help you. You're giving them an opportunity to utilize their gifts for God, you're right. I haven't thought about it that way, but you are, you're doing them a disservice by letting them serve you and then the whole thing. The socially acceptable idea of deciding if you need me, call me or physically. I can do for you. Let me know. Typically, a life which we mean that, but it's just kind of a social grieving plug-in on the South we so y'all come to see us farewell to trade loosely as a result, no cumbersome files for so y'all like the other being specific. So let me just say this, I want to thank you for taking time to put this book together, you know, like I told you this but that we are giving a copy of this book. This devotional book to every member of our church who has cancer and I would just encourage of their church leaders are listening of this is the kind of thing. A church can do that was going to bless the people in the church are going through this journey.

So thanks for your effort you put into writing it, just bring the gospel use this to bring a lot of encouragement and practical help to those were going through the thanks for being with us tonight.

Thank you Carrie for having have really enjoyed the conversation. My guess is this program came at just the right time for somebody who's listening that you review the title to resource a good strength for the cancer journey 30 days of inspiration and encouragement and comfort the website. Five love go to five love next week how to turn your grumbling integrated.

What does it mean to be thankful and everything. Find out in one week. Thanks to our engineer Steve Quicken are coordinating producer Janice Todd.

Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman's production of Moody radio in Chicago in association with Moody publishers ministry and many Bible Institute. Thanks for listening

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