What if you could change the way you think by changing the conversation you have? with yourself. Just start somewhere with a verse that means something to the hurt you're experiencing, the tension you can't calm. Find something that speaks to that and memorize it and see what God does by allowing that to become self-taught. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.
Gary Chapman. Author of The New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, how to replace the negative, soul-killing self-talk you experience every day with something a lot more positive. Author and radio host John Gager has a plan for turning your heart around and seeing the truth about yourself. The source of his plan is an ancient book filled with poetry and insights into the human condition.
What is it? You'll find out straight ahead on Building Relationships. Thanks for joining us. Gary, I wonder if you have ever struggled with negative self-talk. Was there a time in your life when you were really kind of hard on yourself about something you were going through?
You know, Chris, I think the most of the times when I've had problems, it's been. At night, and all these things come back to my mind, and I'm feeling discouraged. I'm feeling, how's this going to work out? You know, and that sort of thing, you know. And that happens, it still happens periodically, you know.
But what I have done, it's interesting, we're talking about this topic today, but what I typically do is I quote the 23rd Psalm. And about the third time that I quote it, you know, I calm down and I go to sleep.
So I'm very excited about our program today because this whole thing of the Psalms and John's experience with this and this book, I mean, I'm excited about it.
So looking forward to our program. That is one of the most well-known poems ever in history, Psalm 23. You know, everybody knows that, especially from funeral services and other things.
So let me introduce. Introduce our guest today. This is really going to be fun to talk with John Gager. He hosts several nationally syndicated programs for Moody Radio, including The Land and the Book, with his pal, Dr. Charlie Dyer.
He's an award-winning narrator of dozens of audio books. We talked with him about kids say the wisest things and if I could do it all over again right here on this program. He's an ordained minister, an avid photographer, and videographer. I know that because I saw him with all his camera stuff in an airport, I think it was in Dallas. And he and his wife Diana have been married for how many years, John?
42. 42 years. They have two adult children, several grandchildren. The featured resource at buildingrelationships.us is his book, Powerful Self-Talk from the Psalms. 40 Days to a Biblical Mindset.
Find out more at buildingrelationships.us.
Well, John, welcome back to Building Relationships.
Well, it's a privilege to hang out with you guys. Thank you for rolling out the welcome mat and letting me chat with you for a bit. We're delighted to have you. What got you interested in the topic of self-talk? Dr.
Chapman, I think it was when after memorizing the Word of God to replace some of the yucky thinking that was going on in my commute to and from Moody, I began to see a connection between not just memorizing it, But speaking it to the anxiety, the doubt, the lies that were flitting across my mind. When I started to see the connection and the power it had to affect that, I said, aha, I want more of that. Hm.
So what what is self-talk? Can can you define it for us? Yeah, I think self-talk is the uninvited audio stream that plays in our heads all day, every day. It's the voice that often criticizes or condemns us. Negative self-talk often says things like, How could you have said that or done that?
A real Christian wouldn't act that way. You're never going to overcome that habit or fix that relationship. You're never going to make that goal. And Dr. Chapman, I'm learning that that's the same thought stream that many of our friends are also hearing.
The good news is we can change the channel, and we do that by quoting scripture to all those negative thoughts, hence, powerful self-talk from the Psalms. Mm. How did you realize that that your self talk was not really helping you?
Well, we've got a mile and a half commute from Moody to the train station and vice versa. And uh, you know, when you do that walk, I know our producer Steve Wick knows all about that walk too. You know, there's plenty of time for thinking. And a lot of my thinking was stinking, to be honest. Just, you know, you get, especially when you get to the end of the day, you know, you're tired.
So there's maybe some critical, cranky thoughts about a new policy they've pulled out, or maybe you're mulling over something a coworker said that made you feel just a little hurt. Maybe anxiety over deadlines and unfinished projects. And I don't know, I think part of our problem is. We don't self-assess very often or very well. We kind of set our minds on autopilot.
And we can't control the thoughts that pop into our heads, but we don't have to feed them dinner or give them lodging, let them roam the hallways of our minds all night long.
So, what I tried just as an experiment, this is the truth, I started memorizing scripture, specifically the Psalms, as a way to occupy my thinking so it wasn't doing the junkie stuff. And you can't memorize a passage, though, without internalizing it and really pondering it. And that's, I think, what began this quest for a biblical self-talk. Yeah.
So John, as you know, we talk about relationships on this program. And so your book is about your relationship. with yourself. But could changing that self-talk help your marriage or your relationship? Oh, I'm so glad you asked.
And the truth is, it can. And I'm living proof. By the way, I'm not the Jedi Knight at this. I'm a Padawan. I'm still learning.
But I've tasted it. I've seen it. I'm living it. And when we start challenging thoughts rather than merely allowing them in. I think we can speak to our spouse or a friend.
A much differently. What I found is that there are a lot of lies that are just presented to us all day long. And when we quote the Psalms or any scripture to those lies, they flee and they're replaced by the wholesome and holy word of God. For example, when Diana and I have had a conflict. And let's say it's me being a jerk.
Which is often the case. It just is. 42 years of that. 42 years of jerkness, Chris. I have a resource to call me back.
to biblical truth and better conduct. Uh I find it's the one thing that can bend my often proud heart. to realize that I've blown it. Yes, but God won't toss me aside. And so there is help for that fractured friendship, that bruised friendship.
Marriage relationship. And I think maybe, guys, that's what Paul is talking about when he says in 2 Corinthians 10:5, we demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God. And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. Bottom line, We have to literally speak scripture to every anxious, fearful, Ungodly thought. Yeah.
You know, where I see this most of all in my own life is, you know, I'll be working on a project and I will just say, like a writing project. Oh, you're such a hack. You're such, you know, that last sentence was terrible. Who's going to read? Nobody's going to read this.
Why do I think I'm so special? That, you know, that kind of thing. It's like you get into that cycle and it's really hard, first of all, to step out of it, but it's also hard to see the cycle that you're in.
So I think the hardest first step is to just recognize, hey, I'm talking to myself and it is not pretty, right? Oh, I think you're absolutely right. And a lot of us Christians get a little queasy about this when we use terms like self-talk or self-awareness. We go, what is this? Psychobabble?
No, it isn't at all. How could it be psychobabble? When David says to himself, my soul, why are you troubled? Why are you downcast? It's not psycho Babel.
It's Bible talk. And so as you've said it, Chris, the idea of just Saying, hold on a second, what's going on? I think I have a self-talk problem. That's when the road to a a better path starts, I think.
Well, John, let's talk about the skill that you've learned of switching gears mentally. Explain that to us. How does it work? That's a good question. I think it's a matter of learning to assess.
A thought wave comes. A negative thing is echoing in our heads. We say, aha, aha. I see what's going on here. This bad thing has happened.
I've just blown it with my wife. I've just... I've just lingered too long on something I shouldn't have. I'm about to spin out of control with this stress or fear or worry. Time to switch gears from my normal course of self-destructive thoughts.
This is a, we've got to say this: this is a chance to let the word of God speak to my disaster. My mistake, my failure. And then I quote a verse that seems to really relate to that situation. It doesn't happen automatically, just like switching gears. You've got to switch them.
It doesn't happen every time.
Sometimes I blow it. But it is a skill I'm convinced we can learn and develop. Romans 12:2 says, be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Well, renewing takes time. This is a process, it's a learned skill, and I think switching gears mentally is a part of that process. Yeah.
So let's dig into your book and look at the example. Of a psalm passage that stopped an argument with your spouse. I mean, did that really happen? What you recorded in the book? Tell us about that.
Okay, not a psalm passage in particular, but many times scripture has actually stopped an argument. I think of Philippians 2:3, let nothing be done through strife or vainglory, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than himself. Wow. I've had to go to Diana after I've quoted this verse to myself and say, What I just did was not in lowliness of mind. In fact, I created strife.
Would you please forgive me? It's a little tough, by the way, to argue with an apology like that. I mean, you're right. You're right. You're quoting scripture.
I mean, it doesn't erase the dumbness of whatever I just did. It doesn't take away her hurt. But I think it's a great approach. Also, I love Ephesians 4:31 and 32. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger be put away from you with all malice.
And be kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you. I have to say, Diana, I was just not kind. Period. I was not tenderhearted. That's not the standard.
I screwed up. I blew it. Would you please forgive me? And because she's gracious, she does. But those passages are argument stoppers.
Argument healers, relationship menders, though they're not from the Psalms. I do have many other, as we continue, that really are from the Psalms and that really do enter into your relationship with your spouse or your friend. Yeah, that's great. I believe that reading and studying the Bible can really make a difference in your life. But you also see the discipline of memorizing.
to be a real life-saver in marriage.
Well, you can't quote Bible verses you haven't learned. You you can't expect to have self-talk shaped by Scripture. if you haven't committed it to memory. You know, people ask, is there a fast track to better self-talk? No.
No, there isn't. But there is a direct track, and that's start memorizing a verse or passage today. And I sometimes get pushback when I talk about this. People say, you know, I just can't memorize anymore. You know, my brain doesn't work like it used to.
And I say, well, welcome to the club. You know, but that doesn't give us a free pass. You know, we can all quote the McDonald's slogan: Ba-da-ba-ba-ba, I'm loving it.
Well, if we can do that, then we can memorize at least a phrase of Scripture. And it might take us longer, but who cares? There's no prize for first place. You know, in our small group, Dr. Chapman, our pastor encouraged us to memorize Romans 8.
That's a long chapter. It's 39 verses. Yeah.
And I thought, wow, I don't know if I can do that. Do you know he had it done in like four months? And I told him up front it was going to take me the entire year. And it did. It took a whole year.
But you know what? Nobody's handing out ribbons for first place. There's no trophy for speed memorization. Just start somewhere. with a verse that means something To the hurt you're experiencing, the loss you felt, the tension you can't calm, find something that speaks to that.
and memorize it and start there and see what God does by allowing that to become self-talk. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, John, talk about the power of a passage to prompt an apology. I'm sure you've seen that in your life. Oh, definitely. You think of husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
Well, I'm caught up short there, too. You know, Diana, I have not loved you as Christ loved the church. I've loved me. It was my agenda. It was about me again.
Would you forgive me? Or I love Colossians 3. It says, forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. And I love the fact that it doesn't end there.
Okay. It says, forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. And all of us are saying, yeah, but you don't know what she just said or did, or, you know, and it adds, forgive as the Lord forgave you. Whoa.
Now that's end of story. It's done. Because to forgive as the Lord forgave you, how many billions of times have I had to confess the same offense and outrageous things that I shouldn't be doing by now? But forgive whatever grievances. Boy, that that'll prompt an apology.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's why I wrote that book, The Five Apology Languages, because people have a different idea of what it means to apologize. Right. And a great book it is. Yeah.
Well, if this is true that Script our conflicts or heal our hurts and fix our self-talk, why do we hold back from engaging in this process? You ask a very good question. I think some of us have not really. I made the effort to memorize. We've said, I can't do it.
Some of us have not tasted the power. of the memorized word to defuse a conflict. Or to set aside an anxiety.
So we don't know how powerful scripture can be. Once you do, you go, wow, I like that. I need more of that. I want more of that. You know, when I was a kid, Uh one of our All-time favorite Christmas presents we ever got.
We had four little boys at the time, all under the age of whatever, and dad got us a Strombeck slot car racing set. Oh, was it fun? And of course, what are little boys going to do with a race car set like that? You got these little controllers with a little plunger button. Boom!
You plunge that button all the way. You're going full tilt, full out, full speed around that track with its S curves and this and that. And what happens? The cars go off the track. and my poor Dad spent, I think, most of the Christmas vacation putting those cars Yeah.
Back on track. And that is a picture of what the Word of God does for us. It puts us back on track when we've fallen off. When we've crashed. It brings us back.
It gets us back on track. And when you've experienced it, you want more of it. Yeah.
I think some of our listeners might be thinking.
Now, all these verses that he's quoting. Are they in the book that we're talking about today? Or is it just the Psalms that are in this book? This is primarily focused on the Psalms. And I don't apologize for that because David was a guy with all kinds of issues himself.
And when you realize that the psalms are not just poems, They're not just songs. They are not just prayers. But in many instances, they're David revealing his self-talk, showing us what his thought process was. You go, wow.
Well, I can use that too. It's very empowering. Yeah, I can see that. I've been reading through the Psalms again myself recently. He's very open and honest.
Yeah.
Don't hold back.
So John, what about after you apologize and you've done all you can and things still seem to be a mess in a relationship? Is there a psalm for that? Yes, there is. And yes, I've experienced it because, yes, I've blown it. The psalm I would like to go to is Psalm 27:14.
Wait for the Lord, be strong. and let your heart take courage. Yes, wait for the Lord. You know, as guys in particular, you know, when we have tussles with other guys, you know, we straighten it out, maybe apologize, get on with it, and we're best friends in five minutes. But our wives aren't that way.
They take time. And, you know, I often have to say to Diana, I know I'm thinking and feeling like a man here, but Psalm 27:14, wait for the Lord. Be strong and let your heart take courage. Because it isn't all nicey-nicey right instantly, doesn't mean it can't heal and that it won't. Be strong, let your heart take courage.
Yes, wait for the Lord. Yeah.
You know, John, the other part of the book, then, because you explained that in the chapter. And then you have the actual verse printed out, and that's the say it part. But the very last part of each chapter, these 40 chapters, is to pray it. And that's where you don't just talk to yourself, but then you turn your gaze. To God, and I'm going to read the prayer in that chapter right there.
Wait for the Lord, be strong, and let your heart take courage. Yes, wait for the Lord. And the prayer is, Lord God omnipotent, I want the strength that comes from waiting on you. But you know my heart, how prone I am to run ahead. and if necessary, ram ahead.
Hear me, Lord, help me, Lord. I commit to being strong by waiting. I choose to take courage not in self, But in my Saviour, yet Yes, I will wait for the Lord. Amen. And Gary, I think just the process of doing that, you know, memorizing that, reading that verse, and then praying that verse.
That is, it's almost like water washing over your soul, isn't it, Gary? Yeah.
Yeah, I could feel it just as you were reading it and praying it. Absolutely. Oh, I think this book's going to help a lot of people, John, including me. How can I prepare for a heart to heart conversation with my spouse? I don't want to default to anger and defensiveness.
So where in the Psalms could we turn? Psalm 17, verse 3 is a great one. My intent is that my mouth will not offend. You know, so often we go into these conversations, at least I do, and it's it's all about our emotions, it's what we're feeling, and and we just let it all hang out, and yeah, and then it all blows up. But what if we went into a conversation saying, My intent?
My goal. Is that my mouth will not offend? You know, we put this to the test a while back. We had an extended family get-together. I will define it no further other than to say it was a big deal.
And there was an individual with whom we felt some tension. And I was terrified that I or someone else was going to speak their mind. And really rip into this person. I really was. And so, before we ever got into the car, I said, guys, this is our verse, Psalm 17:3.
My intent is that my mouth will not offend. And we kept saying it and praying it. and saying it and praying it. And you know, the whole weekend finished, There was never an incident of any kind. And I thought, wow, there it is: self-talk from the Psalms.
God answered that prayer. Hmm, hmm. Yeah, I'm just thinking out loud, but in most extended families, There is an Uncle Claude or somebody. Everybody's afraid that somebody's going to really blow up and tell them how they feel.
So I can identify with what you're saying. Often I've been that Uncle Claude, to be honest with you. In my case, it's Uncle Claude. You know, I mess up too.
So, how do I know, John, that this is working? How do I, you know, what does success mean? Does success mean that I can actually memorize a verse and repeat it to myself? What does it look like to? To have a successful self-talk from the Psalms?
I think it's when we notice a wrong thought, a lie. Uh a half-truth. a critical word, whatever it might be, and we say, aha, no, no. And we speak to the lie. We say that's that's not true.
And we quote something from scripture, if only a phrase or a word we're quoting from scripture, then we know we're we're on the path. Yeah.
I think you're right. Just and so it's not perfection. It's not like I did everything right today. No, that's not it. It's I'm seeing where I'm wrong.
And one of the things that you mentioned just a little bit earlier, I really resonate with, because I've heard this, especially from men who have some kind of addiction. They have said, well, this is always going to be with me. I'm never going to get over this. I'm never going to get past whatever this addiction is that I have. It could be workaholism or pornography or whatever.
That is a lie that is not from your heavenly father, right? That's absolutely true. And we do have someone lying to us all the time. And let's not underestimate that. And I think that's a big part of the issue.
And that's why we need to speak scripture to ourselves. Uh all day, every day as these things uh cross our minds.
So, John, let's come back to this whole matter of conflict in marriage. What psalm comes to your mind when you think back on a conflict or a marriage issue from which God delivered you? Oh, you got to love Psalm 18:19. He also brought me out into an open place. He rescued me because he delighted in me.
Now hang on to that for a moment. He rescued me. I didn't do it. He rescued me because he delighted in me.
Even when I was being a jerk, he delighted in me. You know, I was just reading guys in Genesis, going through that in my personal Bible time, about Adam and Eve, their sin. God cast them out of the garden. But even when he did so, He was loving them. He provided clothing for them.
He was kind to them even when they had utterly destroyed. Uh his perfect creation, even then he loved them, and if God loved Adam and Eve at their worst. Then won't he also love us? when we're at our worst.
Well I love in that chapter where you say. You talk about delight. Because we don't often think about that. I always think, Gary, of God standing at the portals of heaven, kind of shaking his head, you know, smacking his forehead. You know, what has this knucklehead done today?
You know, that's the way I think. Yes, a lot of us do. But you say God's delight in you is not past tense. His delight in you is not going to end. His delight in you is not performance-based.
It is impossible for God to delight in you any more than He already does. And just that thought kind of snaps you out. It's like, I can't understand that because he's perfect and I'm not. I don't understand. But if I start to tell myself the truth, You know, that God's delight in me, and I start to believe that it will change me, won't it, John?
Oh, absolutely. And this is a growth area for me, Chris and Dr. Chapman. I struggle here. You know, I guess I was somewhat performance-oriented in my upbringing, and they did a wonderful job as parents, and yet I allowed that to seep in.
I just need to know that I'm loved not on the basis of what I can do or achieve. but just because God is good and kind. Thanks for joining us for the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" .
Today we're getting some help with the negative self-talk so many struggle with. Author and broadcaster John Gager is joining us. Our featured resource at buildingrelationships.us is his book, Powerful Self-Talk from the Psalms. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us or go to fivelovelanguages.com.
So, John, before we go further, what launched this whole idea in your own mind, your own life?
So I have worked on Psalm 25 as a memory target, and verse 15 says, My eyes are continually toward the Lord, for he will rescue my feet from the net. I had just preached on this, filling in for our pastor Sunday. It's Tuesday. I'm flying from Chicago to Colorado Springs to interview a well-known author. It's an audio interview.
I've got my recorder, the microphone, the cable, the headphones, the big pot filter, and of course my iPad, and all this jammed into this backpack. I'm writing furiously on the plane, working on a blog, working on a book, working on some other freelance writing, show up at the airport in Colorado Springs, and I get everything all rearranged in the backpack, arrive at the interview, only to realize. I'd apparently left that iPad at the airport. And of course, that's very upsetting. And immediately, the The critical thoughts start flowing into my mind.
You idiot, how could you have done that? How irresponsible. When are you ever going to learn? You know, you've lost coats in subways all over the world, and now you've lost an iPad. Are you never going to get your act together?
And then I thought, wait a minute, wait a minute. What about that psalm? You know, and I'm I'm really uh Just curling up into a fetal position emotionally. And I thought, wait a minute, what about that verse you just preached on? My eyes are continually toward the Lord, for he will rescue my feet from the net.
I said, Lord. The net that is strangling me is anxiety and self-loathing. I want to be free from that. Would you help me to live this day, however, it turns out? free from that.
My eyes are continually toward the Lord, for he will rescue my feet from the net. And of course, I asked God if there'd be any chance possible for that iPad to get returned. Long story short, all day long, These negative bombs came at me. You bozo. How could you have done that?
And I tell you, every time I answered them, my eyes are continually toward the Lord. Yeah, but that was stupid. And you're probably never going to get it back. My eyes are continually toward the Lord.
Well, we were sitting down to supper that night, got a phone call from the airport. Hey, We've got your iPad if you want to come pick it up. And people say, isn't that awesome? And it is. It's awesome of God to do that.
It's merciful of God to do that. But not every story has that kind of a happy ending. I get it. The real win for that day, though, I want to scream this. Is not that I got the iPad back as nice as that was.
The real win for the day. was knowing that I could in a crisis moment Reach out and lean on that scripture and have it change my thoughts. Instead of being self-loathing and self-critical and self-bashing, I could answer with scripture and be victorious in Christ through His Word. That's the big takeaway that I had. And I said, I need more of this.
I must have more of this. And one thing led to another, and now the book, Powerful Self-Talk from the Psalms. Yeah, yeah, that's great. God uses our experiences to teach us along the way, doesn't he? Boy, for sure.
With iPads, too. And you know what I'm thinking, Gary? I'm thinking that as you deal with parents, you deal with couples and counseling and parents through the years. The the dad who is listening right now, who heard what John said to himself, has heard from his own father some of those same condemning words and has internalized them. And then what he doesn't want to do is Turn around and give those to his own children.
Yes. But that's what he has done. You know, you dummy, why did you leave your coat? Why don't you, you're late for school again? Why don't you, you know, all of those, fill in the blank, all of those things.
So changing your thoughts about you and telling yourself the truth. Won't that then leak out, John, into the way that you treat others, especially your kids and your spouse?
Well, it has to. It has to. And I have to own up to the fact that what my kids saw modeled for them largely was a dad who did not engage powerful self-talk from the Psalms, but critical self-talk from the self. And so I have to own up to that. And sadly, Chris, since you brought it up, I do hear my kids beating themselves up sometime, and I go, mm-hmm, and I know where they got it.
And it's a shame. But I'm hoping that somebody listening to this conversation will say, aha, there's a better way, there's a biblical way, and I can do it. I'm not going to maybe be able to memorize 17 Psalms, but I can start with a verse, I can start with a phrase, and I can watch God use it in turning against the negative self-talk. Yeah.
Yeah.
John, what about a really, really difficult situation where You've done whatever, and the relationship is not healing. And there appears to be, in your own mind, that there's no hope for reconciliation. What comes to your mind in those kind of situations? Psalm 16:8 is just such a power-packed verse. I have set the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. Got to unpack that just a bit. David says, I have set the Lord before me. You know, nobody did it for him. It wasn't a self-help book.
It wasn't something he read on the internet. I have, that's a choice. I have set the Lord before me. I'm not sure the grammar there is in prime position. Maybe it is for our Hebrew scholars out there, but the point is, he has made the Lord his focus.
It says, Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. David understands that God is present with him. Therefore, there's no need for the shakenness. that so many of us wander into. You know guys, this is this is beautifully illustrated.
Um one time I was working on a video project and I'd spent hours editing this video. All the files were on an external hard drive and one day I powered up the video editor and it said hard drive not found. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. I got hours into this. All these video files, all these data files from the program, all these hours invested, and now it's for nothing?
And I mean, again, I went to my natural mode. This is horrible. You know, it's death, it's the end of the world. And then Psalm 16:8 crept in, Gary. And I said, I need this.
I have set the Lord always before me, because he is at my right hand. I will not be shaken. And I prayed a two-word prayer: God help. And you know, in a matter of minutes, with some fiddling around, that hard drive came back online. But it showed me again.
That we don't have to live in panic mode. Bad stuff is going to happen. It is. But we don't have to live in panic mode. We can live in peace mode when we choose to answer with powerful self-talk from the Psalms.
I have set the Lord before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. So that friendship is severed, it's broken. That relationship with your spouse is fractured. I have set the Lord before me.
Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. The realization that he is with you in every single situation is pretty powerful. You say, and I'm quoting here, but I still feel this is unfair, whatever the person's done. I don't feel at one with my spouse. Is there a passage that addresses that issue?
Psalm 34:14 says, Seek peace. and pursue it. You know, we tend to want nice things to happen to us. You know, we want our relationship with our spouse or our friends to be nice and neat. They aren't always.
Seek peace and pursue it. That's on us. You know, a lot of times we we we want peace. Have we sought it? You know, if you're going to seek peace, it means you're not going to seek.
Self-justification. You're not going to seek your way first. It's not going to be your way or the highway. You're going to seek peace and pursue it. Peace is elusive.
We don't get it because we've thought a nice thought once or quoted a verse once. It's going to take some pursuit. You know, we watch these police chases sometimes on YouTube, some of them winding and high speed and they're going everywhere. We're going to have to seek peace and pursue it. We're on a battlefield, not a baseball field.
This is going to take practice. It's going to take effort. It's going to take commitment. And I'm speaking to myself here. Seek peace and pursue it.
Yeah.
I've sometimes said to couples when they have no hope and they tell me they have no hope in the counseling office, I say, well, I can understand that. How about going on my hope for a little bit and God's hope? Because God has hope for you. What about the unexpected struggles? Like getting the flu over Christmas.
My son and his wife were scheduled to fly home from their home in Texas for Christmas. And the day before they were to get on the plane, my son got the flu. Any psalm coming to your mind in that situation? This is going to crack you up. I had the flu over Christmas.
Oh. And I have to tell you, you know, on a scale of, you know, whatever, the idea of throwing up is just like, to me, the absolute worst human experience possible. And yet there I was, Dr. Chapman, kneeling over the white porcelain. And the moment came.
And um, you know, I I remember praying Psalm 34. Verse 1, it says, I will bless the Lord at all times. His praise shall continually be in my mouth. You know, your stomach's got that horribly way too tight sensation. Your mouth is still tasting the bitterness of the yuckiness, and you don't know if and when the next wave is coming.
But it did something to quote that psalm. I will bless the Lord at all times. His praise shall continually be in my mouth. That verse. ministered to me.
I I didn't get better physically. But emotionally, spiritually, I took a jump ahead. It was a lovely feeling to just actually sit back and smile and laugh even just after you thrown up in the toilet. I don't like that mental picture that I have of you, John. But it goes to the power, the powerful self-talk.
It goes to the power of this that you were able to even laugh in the middle of the struggle, right? Oh, absolutely. Who would have thought that? I wouldn't have. And I can't even take credit for it.
I cannot, guys. It was something that God brought to mind. And I think it does become a bit of a habit when you're working on a habit, you know, of trying to call those psalms to mind when you're going through rough patches, like a visit to the bathroom. Yeah.
You would have to have memorized that verse for that to come back to your mind.
Now, since you remember that, Psalm 34 is a favorite psalm. And I have memorized it. And when I Go to my little prayer time on Wednesdays in the office. I open the prayer time quoting that Psalm every time. I did it this week.
I will bless the Lord at all times. His praise shall continually be in my mouth. My soul will make its boast in the Lord. The humble will hear it and rejoice. And it goes on.
It's a great, great psalm to commit to memory.
Well, John, we know that many of the Psalms in the Bible were written by David. And we know that David was a flawed man. He had some relationship problems in his life. Oh, my. In some ways, David was a poor father.
And when his daughter is raped by her paternal half-brother Amnon, David does almost nothing by way of discipline. You go, what? I mean, that's just sad. His son Absalom, we all know, launched an attempted coup against his own dad. And that didn't happen in a vacuum.
Clearly, I think David had left some things undone. And then, of course, there's his moral failure sleeping with Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah, which is followed by David's deliberately placing Uriah in the worst part of a battle which took his life as David had designed and hoped.
So, yeah, David was flawed in a big way, yet, he. He is forgiven. He's loved by God, used by God. And so I think David gives all the rest of us failures a good bit of hope. If David could be forgiven, if David could be restored, if David could be used by God, if he could learn the right self-talk, then so can we.
And that's, I think, why I relate to him. That's why almost every psalm in this book, Dr. Chapman, is from David himself because we know who he was. We know his track record. We know he blew it and we've blown it.
And I think it just gives us hope. Oh, I can see that. If God can forgive David and use David, He can forgive and use us. Absolutely. What's going to happen, John, if we don't learn to change our negative self-talk?
Because all of us have it. You know, that's an important question because I think a lot of us will listen to this conversation and say, oh, that's nice. That's good for you, Johnny Boy. I'm glad that works for you. You know, my mind doesn't work that way.
I can't memorize. And, you know, it's never going to happen for me that these verses are going to come to my mind. I'm not that spiritual. And left unchallenged. These thoughts lead us to a downward spiral.
And instead of claiming Romans 8:37, we're more than conquerors. We tell ourselves we're more than losers. And we let ourselves get conquered. The downward spiral becomes a habit. Uh it becomes a discolored lens.
Through which we view everyone and everything, including our spouse, our friends, and maybe even God Himself.
So it's not really an option. Uh to to work on our self-talk. We have to. And and if we don't get it right, we're going to have everything wrong. Yeah.
What could this discipline do for people who have a lot of anxiety? Yeah, I think as we learn powerful self-talk from scripture, it will slowly. but steadily loosen the grip. that worry has on us. The discipline of speaking scripture to our wrong thoughts will bring calm.
When you're not at peace? It will bring courage. When you feel like maybe God's forgotten you. It'll bring patience. When you can't get your act together.
Relief when you're in over your head, and forgiveness when you're burdened by your guilt. There's just untold benefits. From from memorizing scripture. And then calling it up to address the lies that pop into our head. It goes on and on.
And like I say, I'm a learner here. But I'm learning that it's worth it. Yeah.
Well, I think many people, of course, live with anxiety in today's world. There's no question about it. I do. I mean, I used to say if worry was an Olympic sport, I'd have a dresser drawer full of gold medals. And for years now, I have an accountability partner.
from church and he texts me every single Wednesday. John, how's the week on worry? And I give him a numerical score. One to 10.
Some days they're eights and eight and a halfs, and some days they're threes. But so we have to work on this. And what I'm learning again, not having mastered it, is I'm seeing a difference. in in the worry factor in my life. There's less of it.
You know, when you're spending more time memorizing, you have less time to worry in the first place. And when God empowers you to call it up, praise His name, it makes a big difference with worry. Yeah, yeah. If we focus more on the truth rather than the lie, life is going to be different.
So John, as we come toward the end of our program today, talk to the person who feels a weight of guilt. On their life, you know, something that they did in the past that they still don't feel forgiven for. What do you say to that person?
Well, I think everybody has things in their life that they're not proud of. You know, you don't have to be an axe murderer to have something to regret. We've all killed people with our words. We've all thought immoral thoughts. We're all wicked.
The heart is deceitful above all things, says Jeremiah 17:9, and desperately wicked. Whoa, not just wicked, desperately wicked.
So we're all in that position. But I love the encouragement of Psalm 103, 10 through 14. He, that's God, does not treat us as our sins deserve. Boy, that's good news. Or repay us according to our iniquities.
Get this for as high as the heavens or above the earth.
So great is his love for those who fear him. As far as the east is from the west, So far has he removed our transgressions from us as a father has compassion on his children.
So the Lord has compassion on those who fear Him. For he knows how we are formed. He remembers that we are dust. And I love the story of our little granddaughter Jocelyn. When uh she was out at our camper Just learning to walk.
She was coming down the wooden steps on to the ground, and as two year olds do, her steps got messed up and And there she was in a... in a dusty mess of tears and gravel. And I ran over to help her up. But she beat me to it, climbed back to the top of the stairs and says, Now let's try that again. You know, that's what our Heavenly Father wants to say to us.
Let's try that again. Let's try that again. And you got to love, this is not a psalm, but you got to love Romans 8:1. Therefore, there is now no condemnation. Bring all those who are in Christ Jesus.
No condemnation. I have to say it and say it and say it. And so will you. But go ahead and say it. Romans 8:1, and check out Psalm 103:10 through 14.
Powerful passages, for sure. I love that thought, Gary, and we've talked about this here before. Um we even had a guest on who's husband committed adultery and she later forgave him. But every time she would go past the hotel, you know, this spot on the globe, the stuff would come up in her heart and have I really forgiven? And she was able to then say, every time she went by there, it was a place of grace and mercy that I have forgiven.
And I'm choosing again to forgive, even though this thought comes up to me again here.
So that's the same thing that you're saying here, John. When that guilt or the shame or the struggle comes up that you feel like, oh, how could God forgive me of that? You choose to believe that he is good and merciful. And you made it so you made such an important statement. It does come back to us again and again.
We think that it should be done. We confessed it. It's in the past, but those thoughts do come up. And we do then have to speak scripture to those accusations every time. We've got a liar and accuser at our elbow, in our head, 24-7, but we have the word of God sharper than any two-edged sword.
Let's quote it. Let's use it.
Well, John, this has been a very encouraging time together, and I think this book is going to help a lot of people.
So thanks for being with us today. Thanks for writing this book. Thanks for memorizing scripture for yourself and challenging our listeners to do the same.
Well, it's very kind of you to extend the opportunity, Dr. Chapman and Chris. And again, I'm a learner. but enough of a learner that I know it's true the Word of God is able to speak truth and throw out every lie that comes across your mind, every negative thought. I believe it.
Let's do it. I think this is one of those resources that can make a huge difference in your marriage, in your family, in your own heart. It's titled Powerful Self-Talk from the Psalms: 40 Days to a Biblical Mindset. It's by our guest, John Gager, G-A-U-G-E-R. You can find out more at buildingrelationships.us.
Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. And coming up next week. How to live life with passion and purpose. Jen Lilly will talk about waking up your faith in one week.
Now if you'd like to make a comment about the program or ask Dr. Chapman a question, call our listener line now at 1-866-424-GARY. Again, 1-866-424-GARY. A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr.
Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.
