Help for Blended Families | Deana Thayer

Today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, Help and Hope for Blended Families. We know now it's about one in three Americans have some kind of step relationship. We have to accept that blended families are in your church, they're in your school if you're an educator, and we need to be resourcing those families so they can have the supports they need to navigate all these complexities that come with being in a step family. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chabman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today practical help for making your blended family members feel the love you want to express. Our guest has a heart for step parents and stepfamilies, Dina Thayer and her husband, lead a blended family ministry through premarital coaching, mentoring, and in small groups. And you're going to hear from her straight ahead on Building Relationships. Our featured resource at the website, buildingrelationships.us, is the book that Gary wrote with Ron Deal titled Building Love Together in Blended Families.

Gary, this topic affects a lot of people today, doesn't it?

Well, you are exactly right, Chris. I mean, everywhere there are blended families, and some are doing quite well, others are struggling, but most do have a time of struggle in their relationships. I am excited about our topic today and looking forward to what our audience is going to hear.

Well, let's welcome our guest, Dr. Dina Thayer. She's a speaker, podcaster, and author with more than two decades of experience with marriage and parenting issues. She originally served as a doula and childbirth educator before moving into parent coaching and podcasting. She holds a doctorate in educational leadership.

For the past decade, Dina and her husband Scott have drawn on their step family experience to assist blended families. She and Scott live in Colorado Springs and have five young adult children. The featured resource again is Building Love Together in Blended Families: "The 5 Love Languages" and becoming step family smart. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us.

Well, Dina, welcome to Building Relationships.

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to speak with you today about such an important topic.

Well, Chris mentioned that you were a doula and childbirth educator. Did those experiences prepare you for what you're doing today? Absolutely, Carrie. And the reason is, I loved that work. Don't get me wrong, it's so special to prepare families for entering into parenthood and even being there on the day when their child is born.

I loved that work, but I became a little disenchanted with the idea that I was helping them until the day the baby was born. And then. Dropped off. And I thought, you know, parents need support long after the birthing day. And the real work often actually starts then.

And it's a little bit. I think analogous to how we treat marriage. There's so much prep for the wedding. And while that is an important day, if you aren't doing the work to prepare for your marriage, you're really missing the boat. And so that's when I kind of caught the fire for educating parents and caring so much about that.

And of course, being in a step family, educating blended families as well. And that's what led me to pursue my doctoral work and to continue in the ministry that Scott and I share. You know, you triggered a memory in my own life because my wife and I had one hour. with the pastor who married us. And that was mostly talking about, mostly talking about the wedding.

Wow. I never heard the term premarital counseling, and we never had any. That's probably why we had real struggles in the early days of our marriage.

So, yeah, I hear exactly what you're saying.

Well, now I also saw that you specialize in sleep consulting. Tell me more about that. Yes.

So that also came out of my work with expectant and new parents. And one of the early struggles that many parents have is feeling super bleary-eyed because they're up all night dealing with a baby. And through some research and work with families, I stepped into helping with infant sleep, which of course, in turn, helps the adults get some sleep. And that has been a really rewarding piece of what I get to do as I help parents is help them get some shut eye because I'll tell you, at least for myself, if I don't get enough sleep, I am unpleasant. I don't even want to be around myself.

So it was really rewarding to get to help teach some strategies about helping a baby learn circadian rhythms and night and day and bring some gentle routine to the newborn, which, of course, in turn helps the whole family get some rest.

So it's a lot of fun. I can imagine a lot of parents right now are saying, yes, yes, yes, I would like help in that.

So now share your blended family journey. Tell us how you and Scott met and how you felt that you were meant for each other. Give us your story. Yes.

So with so many people meeting online nowadays, we actually are In the minority, maybe, in that we actually met kind of the old-fashioned way. We met through a mutual friend. And what was really special about that Is that she watched each of us separately for about a year? Before even telling us about each other, she really wanted to make sure: hey, if I introduce them, I want to be thoughtful that this is a good fit. And what I love about our story is that it's, in my mind, just such a beautiful picture of the gospel.

Christ redeems a sinful and broken world. He is the author of bringing beauty from ashes. And I just see that in our love story because what God did here is he took the worst parts of each of our divorces, and that actually is how we met.

So for me, I was a stay-at-home homeschooling mom. I loved that. And my divorce necessitated a return to the workforce. That is actually where I met. This mutual friend was at that job.

For Scott, The biggest challenge he would say, by and large, was having to leave the family home and rent a townhouse. And he talks about some of the challenging first days where he and his children are. Eating takeout pizza on the floor because they didn't even have furniture yet. But lo and behold, in that townhome complex, that's where he met our mutual friend. And so it's so beautiful to me that the hardest parts for each of us are what actually ended up bringing us together.

And then there was a little technology involved because our mutual friend let us log into Facebook as her so that we could Facebook stalk each other a little bit and see some photos and things like that. And then eventually we started communicating. But it's really a fun story of just what God did, reaching down into the deepest valley for each of us and saying, here's how I'm going to connect you with another chance at love.

So I just, I love what God did there. I think he's such a gentleman. You know, I think when we look back on those things, we can really see the hand of God. There's a lot of details there that you all could not have controlled, right? Absolutely not.

Now, what happened on your wedding day that became part of your premarital coaching with other couples? Yes.

So this blindsided us actually a little bit. We were pretty uneducated ourselves. And we've made plenty of mistakes, which is why we do the work we do. We hope other people will not repeat our mistakes. But what happened is our wedding day, and this is true for children in blended families, often the wedding is the day that seals the deal, so to speak.

If you've got kids who are old enough to maybe be hoping that mom and dad will get back together, well, a wedding to someone else is. The nail in the coffin, so to speak, that that's not happening. Or if a parent has passed away, that remarriage really brings up a lot of feelings for the children about: ooh, are we replacing mom? Are what's happening here? What's going to be my place here?

And so there's this resurgence actually of grief. And so on our wedding day, all five of our kids at various points cried. And what we chose to do, and it was a little unconventional. But now we're super glad as we actually have photos of our kids crying in our wedding album. And so now as we coach With premarital step couples and even blended families, we talk a lot about leaving room for the hard feelings.

not only on the wedding day, but into the blended family journey because this is a combo pack of emotions. Even well meaning kids who want their parents to be happy also are probably having some sadness and that Rearing its head of grief and loss and those things. And so it really informed how we talk about that, even though in the moment it surprised us that we had intermingled with this joy, we had sadness. And we just wanted to honor that for our kids and make space for it. And that's why it's even in the photo album.

You know, Dina, what you just said, that story about your kids and their emotions. Really is echoed by Ron Deal because he says, However, your blended family came together, there is loss there, right? Absolutely. That he talks about, we love that Ron says all blended families are born out of loss. And that's there's really truth to that.

There's either been a death or a divorce or a relationship that didn't go the distance. And so there's pain there. And again, this is what our God is in the business of doing is taking pain and showing the redemptive pieces that can happen. He knows how to Romans 8:28, anything. And we just think blended families are a beautiful picture of that.

But you're exactly right. The children are often behind the adults in their grief process, and we need to make room for that. Dana, let's talk about couples who are dating and getting serious. Can you give us some of the pitfalls that dating step couples should be aware of as they look to the possibility of coming together as a family? Yes, I think there's a couple that are really prevalent and worth mentioning.

And the first is just paying attention to pacing. As a couple who's maybe falling in love and feeling so grateful at this second chance at a godly and healthy marriage, It can be tempting to want to just plow ahead and maybe rush in a little bit without that sensitivity to the kids that we were just talking about a moment ago and recognizing that they're probably behind you. They're going to need some time to get on the bus and get used to what's happening here. And so being really sensitive to timing, I think, is a thing that sometimes step couples can miss. with no malicious intent.

They're just excited and happy and that makes so much sense. But we want to be aware that the impact of all these changes falls really heavily on children and we want to be cognizant of that.

So one thing I suggest just at a minimum is at least do a full calendar year because that also lets you see some things that you wouldn't see if you rushed off in four to six months. Things like, how did the holidays go? things like how do you interact with extended family? How do you handle different sports seasons? Get through a whole school year, things like that.

So getting to see all those different seasons, both literally and figuratively, is really helpful.

So pumping the brakes and slowing down can be a thing that sometimes become a pitfall for couples. They don't always think about that. And then I think another huge one is just unrealistic expectations. I definitely fell into this category. I had some rose-colored glasses on and I thought, oh, my stepkids are going to be excited and happy to have this other adult in their life to love them and invest in them.

And frankly, at the beginning to them, I was kind of an intrusion. I was an unwelcome. Interloper. And I didn't have an appropriate expectation that this was going to be a slower process, that I was going to have to earn my way into their hearts and into their lives. And we see that a lot.

Again, for very good reason. It's normal to be excited and to feel positive and to feel thankful. But we've got to watch the expectations because a blended family comes with a lot of complexity, whether that's schedules or dealing with an ex-spouse or dealing with the memory of a deceased spouse or moving between homes, kids going back and forth for visitation, holidays, like I mentioned. There's just so many layers that it's easy to think, well, our love story is awesome.

So things are going to go great, right? And that can trip some couples up as well.

So we like to coach, even in the premarital season, about just keeping the expectations realistic. And even if things are going awesome while you're dating and courting and headed toward marriage, sometimes. Again, that wedding day is such a catalyst. You might actually see some struggles afterwards. And so we've got to keep those expectations in check.

Well, I think our listeners can identify with both of those things you're talking about. And I hope that there are couples who are listening, who are presently dating, will just realize these are things we have to face, so let's be realistic.

Now, after you got married, you made some mistakes. Tell us that about some of those and what they illustrate about new blended family dynamics. Sure.

Well, I'll own, as I was just sharing, I didn't do as great with the expectations around pacing. Ron talks about letting the kids set the pace for that step-parent-step-child dyad relationship. I just was terrible at that. I was so excited. I was like a bull in a china shop.

I was ready to hang out with my stepkids. I was inviting them even to spend time with me one-on-one. I thought, for sure, they're going to want to go to lunch with me or go shopping. My stepdaughter's going to want to go shopping with me. No, they were not ready for one-on-one time with someone, frankly, they didn't know very well.

And so, even though my heart was in the right place and these were well-intentioned invitations, it just went over very poorly. And that was a mistake I made. And I had to back off. It didn't mean I didn't keep reaching out. I had to keep trying once in a while, but I didn't invite as often because the other thing Scott wisely said to me was: you know, you don't have to continually set yourself up to be rejected either.

You do want to keep leaning into my kids, and I appreciate that. But hearing no and getting your feelings hurt over and over also isn't a healthy start for our blend.

So he was very wise to say, you can back off of that for a while and then just try every so often. And you know, eventually they were receptive to it. But I would say that was a mistake. plunging into that too soon. And then another one was just commenting on each other's parenting.

I did this more than Scott, so I will own that. I often was having to take my shoe out of my mouth. But I would comment, for example, I still remember one time his kids were watching a show that I didn't allow my kids to watch. And in front of them, I said to him, Why do you let your kids watch this show?

Well, look at all the layers of mess that I just made. I stepped in a huge landmine because I not only undermined his authority in front of his kids, I made them feel bad that, oh, maybe we're watching something we shouldn't be. Are we doing something wrong? Just all the questions that that brought up. It just wasn't helpful.

So I had to learn over time that if there really was a parenting issue I wanted to chat about to just, A, don't do that in front of the kids. Always be united in front of the kids, but also do address those things because we have five kids between us. I had the two youngest.

So sometimes I did have legitimate concerns about, hey, this is content my kids aren't quite ready for, even though your kids are. Could we talk about a compromise? Maybe they watch that show when my kids are at their dad's or something like that. It doesn't mean not addressing the issues, but my way of going about it early was not grace-filled towards Scott or his children. And I had to learn that over time.

Well, I'm just sitting here thinking about couples who are listening to you and saying, oh yes, oh yes, because they've made the same mistakes. I really like the idea. You know, we talk in private about things that we have questions about, so we don't hold back on that, but not in front of the kids. Yeah, great advice.

Well, you know, when Ron Deal joins us here, we always talk about holidays and how tricky they can be for step families. Did you struggle with the holidays? Ugh, talk about a landmine, right? That's. You're just pushing so many buttons when it comes to holidays because there's family traditions that may have been present in that first family that a stepparent isn't even aware of.

If a parent has passed away, there may be special rituals that were done that now feel very hollow or painful or that are so meaningful they want to make sure to do them even though that parent isn't there anymore. There's just a lot. And yes, I would say Scott and I, struggled, and it seems so silly now when we look back on it, but we just didn't talk about it enough in advance. And so the thing that we didn't talk about was how we opened gifts. And who knew that this could be such a pivotal issue?

But it was. Scotts? Children were very used to taking turns and one child opening one gift at a time while they watched the gift opener and celebrated with them and then moved on. And in my years as a single mom, my kids. Didn't get a lot of gifts.

I couldn't afford it.

So it was like free-for-all. Christmas morning. You only have a few things.

So tear into them and enjoy. We got to Christmas morning. Our first Christmas, where we had all the kids, and you can imagine the confusion. My kids are looking at his kids, thinking, What are they doing? Why are they waiting?

And why has only one person got something? And his kids are looking at my kids and going, What is happening? They're just tearing into things. And Scott and I are looking at each other and thinking, Oh, wow, we've really done it. And so it was a very messy Christmas morning.

And not just because there was wrapping paper on the floor. We had to kind of wade through it almost in the moment, which was really uncomfortable. We did talk through it, and we ended up actually choosing to do it Scott's way, partly because his kids were older, had had that tradition longer, they were more attached to it. And so it just made sense to defer to them. But wow, what a disaster.

I mean, we really, and I have an undergraduate degree in communication. I was thinking, come on, why didn't we communicate about this? But just one of those things we didn't think. Surely everybody opens gifts the same way.

Well, no, apparently not. I'm identifying with everything you're saying today. You know, one of the big struggles in a blended family is prioritizing the marriage.

So what do you say to new step couples about that issue? Yes, this becomes... extra important in blended families because As I was talking about earlier, that early joy at the prospect of the new relationship can really provide a lovely foundation for weathering the challenges that come your way.

So you've gotta be cultivating that. And in a blended family, that can sometimes be more challenging because you've got kids coming and going, and parents have. Really strong feelings about being with their children when they're in their home.

So, if there is a two-household family, for example, and children are going back and forth, when my kids are with me, I don't want to go on a date night. I want to be with them because I don't have them all the time.

So, that's what is a little different, right, than an intact first marriage. And so, you have the guilt feelings and all of those things. And what we say over and over to couples is, All of that is so real and so true.

So, there's really two things to think about. One is you prioritize the date nights when you can. If there are pockets of time that you're kid-free, take advantage of those. And if that's not the case, maybe a parent has passed away, so you have those kids all the time, or there's been a custody situation where your kids are always with you. Then, what we've got to do is be thinking outside the box.

Does a date have to mean leaving the home? Could you put the kids to bed and then have? Romantic candlelight dinner afterwards. They have their chicken nuggets. You have a nice dinner later.

Or Leftover chicken nuggets could be nice by candlelight. Who knows? But it's a lot about getting creative with blended families because they don't always have that luxury. of kid-free time. Like I said, or might feel reluctant to want to get a sitter or something if they only have their kiddos a few days per week, for instance.

So it's so critical, though, that we're cultivating that. Also, this is how we love our children well. They've already been through a relationship breakup or a death, and they need to see a solid marriage. That's a way we love them is by taking care of our lateral relationship as a couple. Yeah, yeah.

Are there resources available for couples who want to make sure to keep their marriage strong, you know, as they blend? Absolutely. I mean, there are, of course, lots of great books. There's downloadable resources. There's websites.

I do want to at least mention one article I wrote here at Focus on the Family about marriage and prioritizing that and how to get creative with dates and even getaways. And it's called Marriage Getaways for the Couple Who Can't Get Away. If you just go to focusonthefamily.com slash marriage, you can search for it there. Just even type in the word getaway. It'll pop right up.

But it gives some really nice ideas for even dates in the home, ways to do, hey, maybe we can't afford flights, but getting away as a couple is important to us. Could we plan a road trip?

So there's just some creative out-of-the-box ideas in that article that might be helpful.

So again, focusonthefamily.com slash marriage. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Can I ask a global question, Regina? What is success for a blended family? Because you talked about the expectations and you want to lower those expectations. And I think a lot of people, you know, for our family, I think if everything runs smoothly and there's no conflict and everybody's car is running right, or you're getting good grades and all that.

But for a blended family, can you just tell me, give me a vision for success? I think there's a few, and I think some of it depends on what's going to be realistic in our situation.

So we all know. I love the scripture in Romans about as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. And I think sometimes in a blend, we need to be realistic that. It is going to be. up to us.

It may not be possible to be Friendly or even civil with your ex-spouse, but are you doing what you need to do? Are you being a good model of kindness and grace? And sometimes that is the success is just knowing you're honoring God and how you're trying to interact with these family members. I think you're exactly right, Chris. If we look for success means everyone finally feels like a family and they call you mom and dad, and nobody uses the word step anymore, we're probably aiming at the wrong thing.

But if we can get a picture of how do we love well. And go the distance. I think a lot of success in a blended family actually looks more like persistence, looks more like patience, looks more like, hey, we stick with it even when it is hard. I love these stepkids even when they aren't ready to reciprocate. I love my spouse well, even though we haven't had a date in a few weeks.

It's that persistence piece that matters so much. And we're also reminded of that in scripture: that perseverance develops character. And that is a huge piece of stepfamily success: do you stay the course even when the going gets tough? And when the going does get tough, That might be the very place where God shows up and you gain the kind of cohesion that you're looking for because you stuck with it, right? Oh, often.

Often that's when God shows up. And I always say, too, be careful what you pray for because our first big family vacation as a whole family of seven, we prayed that it would provide a bonding experience. And we went to the Caribbean not knowing it was hurricane season. And we ended up with this incredible tropical storm. And, you know, we were stuck in the hotel room for a few days playing Monopoly.

And God answered that prayer, just not in the way we expected. We did bond. We weren't doing the things we thought we'd be doing, but it really elevated our closeness. And now it's a memory, of course, that we can look back on and laugh at. It wasn't too cute at the time.

I'll admit, we weren't thrilled with the sideways rain when we were trying to be on vacation. But he does. He shows up in those hard moments, even in that disappointment of, wow, this isn't what we were expecting on vacation. But it elevated our family to the next level, actually. Very quickly because we were having that forced togetherness.

We couldn't have predicted that. That's the Lord. You're listening to the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman Podcast. Find out more about the program, when Gary might be coming to your area, and our featured resource at buildingrelationships.us.

Our guest today is step family expert Dina Thayer, and our featured resource is the book by Dr. Chapman and Ron Deal, Building Love Together in Blended Families. Just go to buildingrelationships.us to find out more.

Well, Dana, let's talk about the children who are in a step family. What are some ways to support them as they try to navigate this new normal for them? Mm. My favorite combination for Parents and step parents alike is to lean into validation. and what I call compassionate curiosity.

So kids in a blended family, they really need validation, and that means even if you get the dreaded phrase, you're not my mom, Think about how disarming it is for them when you say, well, you know what? You're right. I'm not. And it must be really confusing for you that you suddenly have an extra adult weighing in on your life. How can I help you with that?

It's so different than fighting against it, resisting it, getting your own feelings hurt, becoming the dysregulated adult who isn't being the mature person in the room. That validation is really powerful. Or if they're expressing missing a deceased parent, to say, you know what, that makes sense. With her birthday coming up, how could we help you?

So, you get the validation and then you ask that compassionate question. It is a powerful combination. And I know that even as my kids moved into the teen years and maybe were less reluctant to talk, that combination could still kind of get at some of the issues they were facing, whether it was being frustrated about sharing a room. All the way to bigger things about going back and forth between homes. But say it is something.

surface per se, sharing a room. Validate first. You know, that is really tough when you were used to having your own space before I married your stepdad. Then you follow with the compassionate curiosity. How could I make this work better for you?

Could we put up a partition so you still feel at least there's a little division, you have some privacy? Would you like me to let you know when there's time where your stepsister isn't here and you could be in the room by yourself? You ask and you lean in. And then also what's so nice is when you ask those compassionate questions, they get a chance to weigh in on the solution and tell you what would be helpful. And then you're able to move toward some problem solving that maybe you couldn't if you hadn't asked them what would actually be helpful.

So I love that combination for helping kids. They have already been through so much and these changes aren't things they asked for. They didn't ask for a parent to die or for a divorce to happen.

So think of the powerful messaging when now you are asking them, how can we make this better for you? We get that it's hard. Are there ways we can at least mitigate those challenges? It's a beautiful way to invite their voice into the difficulties that might crop up. That that sounded like the opposite of uh A demanding, you know, step parent.

You know, saying, well, I am your stepmother and you're going to do what I say. I mean, that's destructive, right? It is. It is. And it's not helpful at all.

Now, it doesn't mean, I'm certainly not suggesting you don't address things like disrespect or disobedience. There's parenting issues that still have to be handled. But it does mean that when a genuine complaint is raised, that's just valid as part of the change, like this is really hard going back and forth. Or my kids went to a school that had uniforms and they would express frustration about I have to remember all the pieces of my uniform and I'm going back and forth and other kids don't have to do that to just say, you know what? Yes, that stinks.

That's really hard. And I'm sorry, what can we do? Let's make sure we have pieces of the uniform at both houses or whatever it might be. You're right. Are resistant and stubborn as a step parent, that's certainly not going to endear the children to you.

If there is disrespect, of course, you circle back around later with that, and we would recommend that comes from the biological parent if there needs to be anything on the more punitive side. But it does mean that in the moment, we really would suggest do the validation and compassionate curiosity first, then circle around later and address it.

So, the way I think about it is deal with what they're saying first, and you can always circle back to address how it was said later. But get to what you're hearing from them. Are they missing a parent? Are they sad about something that's changed in their life? Are they struggling?

Get underneath and address that. And then you can talk later about, you know, the way you spoke to your stepdad wasn't okay. And we need to talk about that. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben, Dina, that is so helpful.

So what are some of the unique challenges that step families face that other families don't have to deal with? Give us a few of those challenges and how to handle them. Yes, I will just give you a few because certainly there's a laundry list. But I would say a big one that we do know and that is top of mind is schedules. Schedules really can make bonding difficult in a blended family, especially if you don't have all the children together very often.

And this is why we talk about, and Ron talks extensively about this, why it takes so long for bonding to occur. We know that the research says it's about five to seven years for a step family to really gel and for people to feel like they understand their role in the family and all of that. And that's because you're not together all the time in the same way as a family, an intact first marriage, for instance. You might have five kids one day and only two the next. That was the case in our house.

So you've really got to capitalize on those times when you are all together because those schedules make things Tricky. Schedules also complicate holidays because there could be a holiday that comes up where you don't have your children at all. And you have to navigate your own feelings about: wow, we've got this tree here and there's gifts under it, and the kids aren't here to open them. And that can feel sad. In fact, Scott and I did terrible our first kid-free Christmas.

We ended up, I think, eating food out of like a grocery store deli, weird fried chicken. I don't know, it was bad. We didn't have a plan for how to handle our own feelings about missing our kids so acutely at a special holiday.

So, schedules are a big one. Another one that is interesting is finances, because sometimes if you've been a single parent for a while, I certainly felt this. I kind of looked forward to, oh, I'm going to have a husband who has a good job and it's going to help things. And then I wasn't taking into account, hello, but you're going to have a family of seven with five kids in sports and activities. And if you think you're suddenly going up some income tax brackets, you might have an unpleasant surprise.

So again, that was an unrealistic expectation. But being aware that there's complexity around that too, because there may be child support. There may be still spousal support. You might have to really negotiate how many activities the kids get to be in, and do the two previous biological parents split payment for that, or is your household shouldering that? How do you handle tuition if there's private school?

There is so much to think about. And then adult children. That is a whole other. can of worms with finances as which Scott and I encountered when we went to first make our first blended family will.

Well, we realized very quickly, I don't want the guardian for your children to be the guardian for my children. They don't know your brother.

So, there's so much complexity even around that, how you would make sure that your kids are provided for in the event of your death, and to just trust your new spouse that they would care for your children as well.

So, there's a lot of layers with finances. And then, I think, just the last one that is really worth mentioning is: if there are two households or multiple households, And you're in a position like us where we're believers. It's hard when the other household doesn't match your values. And there really has to be some negotiating around how you communicate that to the children, how you stand firm to lay a foundation of a biblical worldview, which is what we wanted to do, even if it wasn't happening in the other home. And then, of course, the really sad potential that they will choose the other home if there are less standards, rules, boundaries.

And we experienced the pain of that. We had children at various times not choose to come to our house because we were the place where there were rules and where they were going to be held accountable. And we had to trust and play the long game and just trust God that he loves our kids even more than we do. And eventually they will see the stability that's provided here and come to appreciate that, even though it doesn't seem very fun right now. I'm just thinking of the people in my office through the years who have dealt with all of these things.

And my time in writing that book with Ron Deal. Because I had never experienced it in my own life, you know, but to enter into the lives of others and the kind of things you're talking about are so real, you know. And yet they have to be dealt with, and there are positive ways to deal with them. And so that's why I think the ministry you and Scott are having. It's so important for couples who are in a blended family.

Thank you. Dina, what about the family members around this couple? Maybe they're engaged already or they're really getting serious. And they see some red flags. They think, things are going too fast here.

There are things that this couple doesn't see. How does a person on the outside looking in communicate those concerns, or do they? You know, I think they do. I think it's important that a step couple invites feedback from their network, and that includes family members, that might include friends, maybe a counselor, a pastor. You've got to have a wide circle here, because again, as I love this question, because as I mentioned before, the tendency to rush is one of the pitfalls.

You get excited about that new love and throw caution to the wind and can't see the forest for the trees. And sometimes the people around you who love you can see things that you might not.

So we have to be at least open to. Maybe having a blind spot exposed. We've got to be open to that. At the same time, of course, the couple are adults and hopefully they're being thoughtful and prayerful. But I don't think you skip talking to them.

I had to really cast a wide net. I had made some poor choices before, and having left an abusive marriage, I really wanted to make sure I didn't fall into that pitfall again.

So I did the whole thing. I invited friends to grill Scott, my parents to meet him. I ran a background check on him, thankfully. His only, I did tease him and said, you know, something popped on your background check, I got to tell you. And he was, you could just see the color drain out of his face.

He was terrified, but it was fishing without a license.

So we're okay. But it was just, it really became important to me to invite community so that I didn't miss something.

So our encouragement is: we hope the couple is inviting that, that they're seeking premarital work. We know that most step couples don't even seek premarital counseling. There can kind of be This idea that, hey, I've been married before, I know the deal, but you don't know what it's like to become an instant family.

So, we want you to have that support.

So, I love that question, Chris. And I think the family members or friends should gently raise the concerns and hopefully the couple is receptive while understanding that the couple does get to make the final choice. But you might be a catalyst to at least helping them maybe pump the brakes a little. Maybe they say, Hey, we're headed the right way, but maybe we're headed there too quickly and we just need to slow down. Maybe it's not a red light, but maybe it's a yellow light and we just need to slow the pace.

So, there's wisdom in that. In terms of seeking help or being open to others' input. Why do you think it's important for pastors and educators to have a basic understanding of steppe families? And what might hold them back maybe from not offering the resources or help or support? Yeah, let's go with that first question first, why it's important.

And I think the biggest one is this is reality. We have to be aware this is happening in our communities and even in the church. We can't turn a blind eye to the fact that so many people are in these relationships. We know now it's about one in three Americans have some kind of step relationship, and that 40% even of new marriages are forming blended families.

So, this is the reality. We have to accept that. Blended families are in your church, they're in your school if you're an educator, and we need to be resourcing those families so they can have the supports they need to navigate all these complexities that come with being in a step family. And I think some of the things that that hold organizations back. I know certainly historically, I'm so grateful to be able to say this is getting better.

But historically, particularly with ministries or churches, there was almost a hesitancy in terms of, hey, if we come alongside a blended family and we provide resources for step families, are we somehow endorsing divorce? And there was that concern. But really, what I think is if we have a biblical worldview and a paradigm that elevates the marital ideal of marriage permanence, which let me tell you, if you talk to a divorced person, they're going to be the people in the room who advocate for this the most because they've seen the fallout of the other way. If we really believe that, then we want to help all marriages go the distance, even when they're not the first one. And that becomes really important.

But I think that idea of are we maybe endorsing that was holding people back before. And that's getting better, and I'm thankful. But I think another one is just feeling ill-equipped themselves or having some imposter syndrome or feeling like, hey, I don't, as a pastor or a teacher or a counselor, have the resources to pass along to these families.

So I don't feel very.

well equipped to help them. And I am so grateful that, you know, for instance, your book with Ron, those things are becoming more widely available, that there are books, there are conferences families can attend, there are downloadable things, things like the article I wrote. There's just, I'm so grateful that resources are becoming more available. And we encourage church leaders, educators to avail themselves of those so they can pass them along to families who might need support and not let that be a barrier because you don't have to be anything fancy. Scott and I aren't anything fancy.

We're not therapists. We're not any kind of expert. We're just in the trenches with you. We're living this as a step family and we just want to help and walk alongside. And really, that's mostly what it takes is just that willing heart and a desire to be a support.

Yeah. You know, that's what motivated me to join with Ron Deal in writing that book, you know, Building Love Together in Blended Families, because Ron had been working in this field for a long time, as you well know. Yes.

And, of course, "The 5 Love Languages" had become very popular. And we realized, you know, whether it's a first marriage or whether it's a blended family, everybody needs to feel loved, you know, by the significant people in their lives.

So helping blended families, the parents, to recognize that every child has a primary love language. And you learn that primary love language and you speak it. But also in a blended family, as you were saying earlier, you have to take gradual steps because, you know, some had read the love language book and the blended family and they say, okay, this child's love language is physical touch.

So I'm going to just give them a big hug every time I see them. And every time they do, they get pushed away. No, no, no, don't do that. We say, you have to start maybe with a little pat on the shoulder or a high five or, you know, and work your way up to a hug. That's exactly right.

I love that part of the book where you talk about the layers that you got to kind of, you might be starting with a fist bump if their love language is physical touch. Because what matters is, yes, they all need to feel loved, but their receptivity to that love language might need to grow over time with a step parent. It might look a little different at first. And so that's important for people who are in these situations to be thinking about. They might mean well, but they're going to have to lean in slowly and let the child set the pace, even with how you love them and speak their language.

It's critical. Yeah, absolutely.

So what is the one overarching tip that you would offer to step couples, whether they're dating or engaged or already well into their remarriage? What jumps to your mind? It's probably the tip I wish I had gotten, and that is pack your patience. It takes longer than you think. And it's easy to want everything to be rainbows and unicorns right away, and that is not realistic.

And it's so worth it, though. And I think if you bring patience along for the ride and trust that if you play the long game, It really Does get better. Will it maybe ever be this perfect? Brady bunch looking thing? Maybe not.

But does it get better? Do attitudes often soften? Are you maybe having to interact with your ex-spouse less because now your kids are grown? There might be just little things. You gotta try and find those little victories, but that takes patience because those happen over the long haul.

It's not an instant process. And I wish I had known that because I think there were times I grew frustrated with how slow it seemed to be going. And that's my biggest tip. Just bring your patience along for the ride. be willing to Play that long game.

See that it's This is a marathon, not a sprint, with a blended family. And that and that's a That is going to bless you if you can keep that in mind for sure. Yep. All right, so if you could get in a time machine and have a conversation with yourself before you and Scott were married. What would you say to yourself?

Oh my goodness. Wow. Okay, that's a good one. I think if I had a chance to chat in my own ear long ago. We're coming up on 14 years next month.

I think I would say, Dina. It's gonna be worth it. Because I could not have predicted some of the hardships that we would encounter, not only with. Ex-spouses, but with our own children, some of the rough patches they went through, some of the challenges we faced as we worked to get on the same page and to parent in unity. There were times where I thought maybe I should throw in the towel, or maybe this just wasn't the best idea.

And I had moments where I thought, do I regret this? Was this a good plan? I'm not sure. But I now look and see the fruit of all the hard work we did in the early years. To have adult children who are proud of their blended family, who want to be part of it, who choose to spend time with us, it is.

undoubtedly worth it. And I just wish I had known that in those hard Patches or in advance of those hard patches to say, hang in there, it's really going to be worth it. And it really is. It's a beautiful picture, again, of what God can do.

Well, Dina, as you well know, in first marriages Where you're not dealing with the issues we've been talking about today, a couple's going to have struggles. You know, when we're in love, we're not we're not anticipating any you know, real conflicts and that sort of thing. But When two people come together, they're different. And so you have conflicts. Carolyn and I, my wife and I had a lot of conflicts in our marriage.

But when you Add to that The blended family and bringing children of someone else together, you become the step parent of those children, it's even more difficult, right? It is. I think you c You don't always take into account what instant family really Will mean and all the layers that that holds, and all the extra people you get, too, right? You get. Kids, certainly, but now you possibly have another parent in another household.

Maybe they've also remarried, so there's another step parent. There's multiple sets of grandparents. You've got extended family, and you have to try to explain to them how you'd like them to interact with your new family. You have possibly legal personnel still involved. You might have counselors if your kids are in therapy, or if you are.

You could have pastors or different church leaders. You get this whole package that I think many people aren't expecting. And so it does really up the level of complexity. And it means that support becomes critical, which is why Scott and I value the ministry we do. We love that at least people can sit in a room with other people who quote unquote get it.

They're in a room with people who don't think this is weird. They're with people who understand when you say, Hey, I really missed my kids this Thanksgiving. It wasn't my year to have them. Or with someone who can say, Could you pray for me? I have mediation this week.

To be in a room of people whose heads are nodding instead of looking at you with a puzzled expression like, I can't relate to that at all.

So it's a gift to be able to do this in community. And that's why our heart is: we want to prevent redivorce. We want to help marriages go the distance, even when they're not the first one. But we want to make sure these families aren't doing that in isolation and that instead they're doing it with support and in community. Yeah.

Well, Dan, I want to thank you for being with us today, and I want to thank you and Scott for what you're doing in your ministry. And I know that our listeners who fall into this category are going to find a lot of help from the book we mentioned that Ron Deal and I wrote, but also the article that you wrote that they can find at focusonthefamily.com slash marriage. And so keep up the good work because you're dealing with an area that is desperately needed in our country today.

So thank you. Thank you so much for shining a light on this issue. I'm so grateful and it was wonderful chatting with you today. What a practical and helpful discussion. And if you're in a blended family, I know you've been encouraged by Dina Thayer today.

Go to buildingrelationships.us. You can see that featured resource by Gary and Ron Deal, Building Love Together in Blended Families. Again, go to buildingrelationships.us. And next week, change your life by using powerful self-talk. From the book of Psalms.

Don't miss the conversation in one week. A big thank you to our production team today, Steve Wick and Janice Backing. And thanks to Rod Govea. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is the production of Moody Radio in Chicago in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.

Thanks for listening.